Can you blame him? It definitely adds a lot to the game including a new perspective on design. Hell, look at how awesome Shadowmage Infiltrator and Dark Confidant are. I wonder if they really will print the land with channel :2mana::symu::symu:: Counter target spell. It seems like a cool idea but might be too good/annoying.
Slightly off topic, but how do u switch the signature by your name? I am tired of seeing just getting started....
IMO, one way to draw new players into the game is to promote it as a competitive sport. To do this you need your 'celebrities' - you know the ones that everyone wants to be like. Removing an event like this dilutes this 'celebraty' status of the top players in the game, and is a bad move in the long run. It's the kind of move that will take Magic back to the kitchen table (not necessarily a bad thing) and undoes the fantastic PR work Wizards has done over the past 5 years.
I like the idea of the invitational, but I think it's a bit bloated as it was. I imagine, when it comes back, it will be a bit more streamlined. It should be a two-day event, tops.
I like the idea of the invitational, but I think it's a bit bloated as it was. I imagine, when it comes back, it will be a bit more streamlined. It should be a two-day event, tops.
It is a tough situation. I'm not convinced that kitchen table players can really be incentivized to buy more cards or come out to play because of promos or some variation on event sanctioning. I think that player group is basically defined by having some thing that they like to do and then doing it. I don't think that the stuff Wizards can offer will induce them to change their behavior at all. If the Wizards Play Network stuff would appeal to them, then FNM and such would've appealed to them in the first place.
More generally, I think that it's possible that a lot of these cuts are the product of the atmosphere that started with the Pro Players Club a few years back. Pro players were SO heavily subsidized and pro points were worth SO much that pros were willing to spend more money on airfare than anyone except the top 4 finishers would receive in prize. It was worth it because pro points were worth so much. I suspect that Hasbro/Wizards looked at what they were spending on this and then looked at sales figures before and after pros got such a windfall, and they found that it wasn't worth it.
As far as what I would do, this could just be because I'm a PTQ player, but I think that the one player group that Wizards CAN get to respond to incentives is PTQ players. These players, by definition, want to get to the next level. If they opened up the pro tour and made it easier to qualify, perhaps with more turnover and fewer "pro for life" types, current PTQ players will get more into it, and those who are on the fence about attending their first PTQ will decide to give it a shot. I'd imagine that this group does drive demand for cards, and they could be convinced to spend more if they see a spot on the PT as the reward.
Meh, it was okay. It really was a niche event, though, and didn't affect that many players/spectators.
-"Teflon" Jeff Phillips
I could not disagree with you more. The invitational has had a huge impact on many people. I don't need to list what won GP Columbus do I? Or for that matter any deck in any format?
It has defined what a magic players dreams are and what the new slogan of WoTC is; "Play the Game, See the World".
I remember back in the day when WoTC had The Duelist magazine. I remember reading how Olle Rade won and got to MAKE a card(!). It was the coolest thing, especially since I had just started playing, I had heard of. Then came Darwin Kastle, Mike Long, Chris Pikula, Jon Finkel, Kai Budde, Jens Thoren, and Bob Maher. I have met every single one of these guys except for Jens, Olle, and Kai Budde. And every single time meeting them made me WANT to win. To make my own card. To say "meh" about the Invitational just makes me wonder how/ where you lost your spark.
Hopefully it hasn't gone forever. The cards they made where pretty much the best printed since forever and losing such a contact with the community really isn't good for wizards...
It definitely isn't gone forever. They'll just change how it's supposed to work. Or just make it a unique event. People liked the invitational cards too much.
I could not disagree with you more. The invitational has had a huge impact on many people. I don't need to list what won GP Columbus do I? Or for that matter any deck in any format?
It has defined what a magic players dreams are and what the new slogan of WoTC is; "Play the Game, See the World".
I remember back in the day when WoTC had The Duelist magazine. I remember reading how Olle Rade won and got to MAKE a card(!). It was the coolest thing, especially since I had just started playing, I had heard of. Then came Darwin Kastle, Mike Long, Chris Pikula, Jon Finkel, Kai Budde, Jens Thoren, and Bob Maher. I have met every single one of these guys except for Jens, Olle, and Kai Budde. And every single time meeting them made me WANT to win. To make my own card. To say "meh" about the Invitational just makes me wonder how/ where you lost your spark.
GP Columbus and Deck Innovation occur without the invitational. Flash/Hulk would have been powerful, Invitational or not.
I've met most of those guys as well. However, Their card design doesn't inspire me. The D&D Minis champions had the chance to do the same thing. Would I like to do any of these things? Sure, but that doesn't mean the event itself has any special impact on Magic. Those players are there because they're already special, not the other way around.
Meh, fair point bot of your, im just going to sulk a little longer because i just lost another fun event to see, and i hope they keep the new art cards after shards of alara.
IMO, one way to draw new players into the game is to promote it as a competitive sport. To do this you need your 'celebrities' - you know the ones that everyone wants to be like. Removing an event like this dilutes this 'celebraty' [sic] status of the top players in the game, and is a bad move in the long run. It's the kind of move that will take Magic back to the kitchen table (not necessarily a bad thing) and undoes the fantastic PR work Wizards has done over the past 5 years.
IMO ofcourse.
And the Pro Tour was designed to do exactly that: promoting it as a competitive game, complete with people who would say, "My job? I play Magic: the Gathering." Since the people currently deciding that their primary market is the kitchen table players, expect more of these cuts to be coming very soon.
Unfortunately I agree with winter, hasbro has not liked the amount of money that Wotc has put into these larger events and have deemed most of those things unnecessary.
Hopefully, they will change their minds and stop cutting the funding to these things that fuel the drive to keep playing for so many people.
Its odd, I have never even looked at these threads before, it seems like there is actually some good conversation of magic boards after all (I am used to guys just flaming one another on the source).
Unfortunately I agree with winter, hasbro has not liked the amount of money that Wotc has put into these larger events and have deemed most of those things unnecessary.
Hopefully, they will change their minds and stop cutting the funding to these things that fuel the drive to keep playing for so many people.
Its odd, I have never even looked at these threads before, it seems like there is actually some good conversation of magic boards after all (I am used to guys just flaming one another on the source).
Well in that case, you smell really bad, and your mom wasn't very good last night. hahaha. *(Just kidding)*
GP Columbus and Deck Innovation occur without the invitational. Flash/Hulk would have been powerful, Invitational or not.
Yes. I know that. You missed my point entirely.
I've met most of those guys as well. However, Their card design doesn't inspire me.
I wasn't talking about their amazing ability to design cards:rolleyes:. I was talking about the actual ability to design a card. A normal player given a chance to tap his/her imagination.
Would I like to do any of these things? Sure, but that doesn't mean the event itself has any special impact on Magic. Those players are there because they're already special, not the other way around.
Obviously these players are special. When did I say they weren't? The Invitational HAS had an impact on tournaments and players. Imagine if there had NEVER been an Invitational. I don't think anyone can really put numbers up on how much financially positive, if at all, of an impact it had for WoTC. But I am sure there is considerable advertisement for them that comes with the Invitational. Assuredly, there is an economic downturn at the moment, but I doubt that has any real determining say in any of this. Placing blame on it just makes it easier to come to a concise decision.
I could not disagree with you more. The invitational has had a huge impact on many people. I don't need to list what won GP Columbus do I? Or for that matter any deck in any format?
It has defined what a magic players dreams are and what the new slogan of WoTC is; "Play the Game, See the World".
I remember back in the day when WoTC had The Duelist magazine. I remember reading how Olle Rade won and got to MAKE a card(!). It was the coolest thing, especially since I had just started playing, I had heard of. Then came Darwin Kastle, Mike Long, Chris Pikula, Jon Finkel, Kai Budde, Jens Thoren, and Bob Maher. I have met every single one of these guys except for Jens, Olle, and Kai Budde. And every single time meeting them made me WANT to win. To make my own card. To say "meh" about the Invitational just makes me wonder how/ where you lost your spark.
I wasn't talking about their amazing ability to design cards:rolleyes:. I was talking about the actual ability to design a card. A normal player given a chance to tap his/her imagination.
Obviously these players are special. When did I say they weren't? The Invitational HAS had an impact on tournaments and players. Imagine if there had NEVER been an invitational. I don't think anyone can really put numbers up on how much financially, if at all, it had an impact for WoTC. But I am sure there is considerable advertisement for them that comes with the Invitational.
I'm not sure what your point was, then. you seem to imply that the GP Columbus deck, and in fact any deck, has it's roots in the invitational. And that's just not true. None of those is unique to the invitational.
I will agree, getting to design a card is an enormously cool prize. but it's not something a normal player is given a chance to do. As I stated before, the D&D Minis champion, historically, has been doing the same thing. I could see it as a prize in Magic outside of the invitational. Perhaps World Champion, or Player of the Year, or something else.
Again, the Pro Tour is "Play the Game, See the World" Far more than the invitational. Because you can actually get on the Pro Tour a lot easier. Also, the advertising effects aren't really as extensive as believed. When it was at E3 was when it was probably the most effective. But for the most part, it's a niche event.
Professional card tourneys don't drive the game for ANY majority of players.
Professional card tourneys drive the game for the actuall pros and pro-bies, the uberkids. I am glad to see invatationals gone.
This statement fails, while i do agree the invitational only drove the true Pros, the Pro Tour/GP circuit drive enough sales to make them worth the advertising costs...
So why cant they just make all these changes at once? We cut this but we bring this back i hope your happy type things annoy the hell out of me, considering its States then Invitational.
Tune in at the End of September: Invitational is back but worlds is canceled.
So why cant they just make all these changes at once? We cut this but we bring this back i hope your happy type things annoy the hell out of me, considering its States then Invitational.
Tune in at the End of September: Invitational is back but worlds is canceled.
If Hasbro is stupid enough to cut worlds, they will cut Magic.
Tiago won his card, stopped playing, started playing again, and then asked if he could get his card after all. It is not an indicator for the return of invitationals.
If anything, The Magic Players Championship could reward an invitational card, but I don't think the invitational cards will return anytime soon.
redthirst is redthirst, fifth Horseman of the Apocalypse. He was the leader of the Fires of Salvation, the only clan I'm aware of to get modded off the forums so hard they made their own forums.
Degenerate? Sure. Loudmouth? You bet. Law abiding? No ****ing way.
Slightly off topic, but how do u switch the signature by your name? I am tired of seeing just getting started....
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The GJ way path to no lynching:
IMO ofcourse.
You should read them.
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen"
How many days was invitationals?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I swore to tear Heaven asunder
As flights of fallen angels wished me
Godspeed on the Devil's Thunder.
Thanks Magus of the Sheep for this great border!
2009 ....
Top 8 Regionals
Top 32 GP Chicago
PTQ Top 8's - 2
More generally, I think that it's possible that a lot of these cuts are the product of the atmosphere that started with the Pro Players Club a few years back. Pro players were SO heavily subsidized and pro points were worth SO much that pros were willing to spend more money on airfare than anyone except the top 4 finishers would receive in prize. It was worth it because pro points were worth so much. I suspect that Hasbro/Wizards looked at what they were spending on this and then looked at sales figures before and after pros got such a windfall, and they found that it wasn't worth it.
As far as what I would do, this could just be because I'm a PTQ player, but I think that the one player group that Wizards CAN get to respond to incentives is PTQ players. These players, by definition, want to get to the next level. If they opened up the pro tour and made it easier to qualify, perhaps with more turnover and fewer "pro for life" types, current PTQ players will get more into it, and those who are on the fence about attending their first PTQ will decide to give it a shot. I'd imagine that this group does drive demand for cards, and they could be convinced to spend more if they see a spot on the PT as the reward.
C
I could not disagree with you more. The invitational has had a huge impact on many people. I don't need to list what won GP Columbus do I? Or for that matter any deck in any format?
It has defined what a magic players dreams are and what the new slogan of WoTC is; "Play the Game, See the World".
I remember back in the day when WoTC had The Duelist magazine. I remember reading how Olle Rade won and got to MAKE a card(!). It was the coolest thing, especially since I had just started playing, I had heard of. Then came Darwin Kastle, Mike Long, Chris Pikula, Jon Finkel, Kai Budde, Jens Thoren, and Bob Maher. I have met every single one of these guys except for Jens, Olle, and Kai Budde. And every single time meeting them made me WANT to win. To make my own card. To say "meh" about the Invitational just makes me wonder how/ where you lost your spark.
Draft it on Cubetutor!
Like freeform roleplaying? Try Darkness Befalls Us
Ryttare Kelasin Luna Orelinalei
GP Columbus and Deck Innovation occur without the invitational. Flash/Hulk would have been powerful, Invitational or not.
I've met most of those guys as well. However, Their card design doesn't inspire me. The D&D Minis champions had the chance to do the same thing. Would I like to do any of these things? Sure, but that doesn't mean the event itself has any special impact on Magic. Those players are there because they're already special, not the other way around.
You should read them.
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen"
The GJ way path to no lynching:
And the Pro Tour was designed to do exactly that: promoting it as a competitive game, complete with people who would say, "My job? I play Magic: the Gathering." Since the people currently deciding that their primary market is the kitchen table players, expect more of these cuts to be coming very soon.
Hopefully, they will change their minds and stop cutting the funding to these things that fuel the drive to keep playing for so many people.
Its odd, I have never even looked at these threads before, it seems like there is actually some good conversation of magic boards after all (I am used to guys just flaming one another on the source).
ARE YOU GAY?
Well in that case, you smell really bad, and your mom wasn't very good last night. hahaha. *(Just kidding)*
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Yes. I know that. You missed my point entirely.
I wasn't talking about their amazing ability to design cards:rolleyes:. I was talking about the actual ability to design a card. A normal player given a chance to tap his/her imagination.
Obviously these players are special. When did I say they weren't? The Invitational HAS had an impact on tournaments and players. Imagine if there had NEVER been an Invitational. I don't think anyone can really put numbers up on how much financially positive, if at all, of an impact it had for WoTC. But I am sure there is considerable advertisement for them that comes with the Invitational. Assuredly, there is an economic downturn at the moment, but I doubt that has any real determining say in any of this. Placing blame on it just makes it easier to come to a concise decision.
I'm not sure what your point was, then. you seem to imply that the GP Columbus deck, and in fact any deck, has it's roots in the invitational. And that's just not true. None of those is unique to the invitational.
I will agree, getting to design a card is an enormously cool prize. but it's not something a normal player is given a chance to do. As I stated before, the D&D Minis champion, historically, has been doing the same thing. I could see it as a prize in Magic outside of the invitational. Perhaps World Champion, or Player of the Year, or something else.
Again, the Pro Tour is "Play the Game, See the World" Far more than the invitational. Because you can actually get on the Pro Tour a lot easier. Also, the advertising effects aren't really as extensive as believed. When it was at E3 was when it was probably the most effective. But for the most part, it's a niche event.
You should read them.
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen"
Professional card tourneys drive the game for the actuall pros and pro-bies, the uberkids. I am glad to see invatationals gone.
Tribute to Dr. Jeebus
Not a little Sheeple.
This statement fails, while i do agree the invitational only drove the true Pros, the Pro Tour/GP circuit drive enough sales to make them worth the advertising costs...
Yes i am the same guy who trades/sells on MOTL AND Wizards of the Coast and i trade on POJO.
Tune in at the End of September: Invitational is back but worlds is canceled.
If Hasbro is stupid enough to cut worlds, they will cut Magic.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
My deviantART; if you're interested in alters, PM me!
If anything, The Magic Players Championship could reward an invitational card, but I don't think the invitational cards will return anytime soon.
4+ year necro... simply amazing.
I don't think there's been an Invitational since '07.
—Jaya Ballard, task mage