This circumstance seems understandable if it's verified he was watching the clock and playing according to that circumstance, however I'm wondering about the whole slow play thing in general.
In some scenarios I play very slow due to complex board positions, or taking into consideration what i could do during the current turn and next and determine what play may be the most correct. I also try to evaluate the board position and see what could happen depending on which creatures attack and block, and which of my opponent's creatures can swing next turn. This becomes very relevant when you're under 8-10 life. I've had players complain about me playing slow, and this doesn't happen often, but during high level play I of course don't want to rush and misplay, so my pace can be slower, but I don't want accusations of foul play. In the event of timers, i usually either cannot see them or don't even bother to look that way because i'm more concerned with the state of play.
Also, he has a couple new tweets up. Google translate gives me a very vague idea of what he is saying, but I was wondering if anyone could translate them into reasonable English.
Sleeping, occurring, after all, you do not understand well and. For a while 10 body full from abruptness removal being attacked battle with the game which is not, being difficult, after it verified accidental remaining time 3 minutes that you thought, the [tsu] [te] [yu] [u] which is. With that as for DQ honesty wonder
Because remaining time is limited, however without being the case that it has become slow it conveyed many degrees it was useless, and at that place only you followed decision. Therefore judgment of the head judge absoluteness very, favorite the large tournament having been formed as for me knowing, the [ru].
Sleeping, occurring, after all, you do not understand well and. For a while 10 body full from abruptness removal being attacked battle with the game which is not, being difficult, after it verified accidental remaining time 3 minutes that you thought, the [tsu] [te] [yu] [u] which is. With that as for DQ honesty wonder
Because remaining time is limited, however without being the case that it has become slow it conveyed many degrees it was useless, and at that place only you followed decision. Therefore judgment of the head judge absoluteness very, favorite the large tournament having been formed as for me knowing, the [ru].
Haha. Google translation is funny.
Sorry guys, I was asleep. I just woke up. The time difference is huge, but now that I am awake I'll translate it for you:
Translation: I slept on it, I woke up today and still don't really understand {the ruling}. It was a game without a lot of combat and suddenly, because of removal I was facing an attack from 10 creatures and it was just a coincidence that I had only 3 minutes left to think really hard about it. In that kind of situation getting DQ seems honestly, confusing.
Translation: It isn't that I started playing slower because there was not a lot of time left, I explained that several times to no avail. And in that situation I had to abide by the ruling. The ruling of the Head Judge is absolute and I understand the importance of maintaining a huge tournament.
I can sort of understand where he might be coming from. I got a verbal warning at UK Nats because I was supposedly slow playing, but the board state was massively complicated with hundreds of possible outcomes. It put me slightly on tilt for the rest of the match.
I can sort of understand where he might be coming from. I got a verbal warning at UK Nats because I was supposedly slow playing, but the board state was massively complicated with hundreds of possible outcomes. It put me slightly on tilt for the rest of the match.
Except he has a reputation of doing exactly this, even when board state is not confusing. There is a reason why he was (likely) being more closely scrutinized than the other players at GP: Florence.
We're talking about Saito, arguably one of the best players in the world, who claimed not to understand what his opponent's English Jace, the Mind Sculptor did. I don't know about any of you, but if you put a Japanese Jace, the Mind Sculptor in front of me, I know exactly what it does.
He's also been known to take upwards of 5 minutes to sideboard (when others get warnings for slow play if they go above 3 minutes) on a regular basis, and take several minutes during a combat phase to decide what to block when he has 1 or 2 creatures out, no cards in hand, and is being attacked with 3-4 times as many creatures as he has.
Players like Saito make me wish top level events did away with the round time and instead implement a chess clock setup like MTGO has. Just hit the button whenever you pass priority. Would solve all the slow play problems, since slow play now would, eventually, result in your own loss when your clock runs out.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I was driven from this once-great site by abusive mods and admins, who create rules out of thin air to punish people for breaking them (meaning the rule does not exist under forum rules) and selectively enforce the rules that are written on the forum rules. I am currently lurking while deleting 6 years and 2 months of posting history. I will return when ExpiredRascals, Teia Rabishu and Blinking Spirit are no longer in power.
Except he has a reputation of doing exactly this, even when board state is not confusing. There is a reason why he was (likely) being more closely scrutinized than the other players at GP: Florence.
We're talking about Saito, arguably one of the best players in the world, who claimed not to understand what his opponent's English Jace, the Mind Sculptor did. I don't know about any of you, but if you put a Japanese Jace, the Mind Sculptor in front of me, I know exactly what it does.
He's also been known to take upwards of 5 minutes to sideboard (when others get warnings for slow play if they go above 3 minutes) on a regular basis, and take several minutes during a combat phase to decide what to block when he has 1 or 2 creatures out, no cards in hand, and is being attacked with 3-4 times as many creatures as he has.
Players like Saito make me wish top level events did away with the round time and instead implement a chess clock setup like MTGO has. Just hit the button whenever you pass priority. Would solve all the slow play problems, since slow play now would, eventually, result in your own loss when your clock runs out.
Where exactly is it discussed that he didn't know what the English Jace did? I would like to read that. Was it originally posted in Japanese and then perhaps strangely translated?
I have personally met and hung out with Saito and he is probably the most popular Japanese player (in Japan) and I find that hard to believe if he is such a rampant cheater as it is often said.
Where exactly is it discussed that he didn't know what the English Jace did? I would like to read that. Was it originally posted in Japanese and then perhaps strangely translated?
I have personally met and hung out with Saito and he is probably the most popular Japanese player (in Japan) and I find that hard to believe if he is such a rampant cheater as it is often said.
Time difference permitting, feel free to ask me for translations!
I'd have to look, but I watched him personally in Columbus at the Legacy GP stall in almost every game I observed. Through various methods, such as asking his opponent repeatedly what the same card does (one of the times did involve a Jace, tMS), spending several minutes during an attack phase to decide whether or not to Brainstorm, the afore mentioned 5 minutes or more spend deciding to sideboard 2-3 cards per match, and some more that have faded from memory.
And just because he may be a nice guy when he isn't playing Magic doesn't automatically disqualify him (see what I did there!) from being a savage rampant cheater in the game. Anyone who has observed him closely for more than a handful of games can see that he habitually stalls.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I was driven from this once-great site by abusive mods and admins, who create rules out of thin air to punish people for breaking them (meaning the rule does not exist under forum rules) and selectively enforce the rules that are written on the forum rules. I am currently lurking while deleting 6 years and 2 months of posting history. I will return when ExpiredRascals, Teia Rabishu and Blinking Spirit are no longer in power.
I'd have to look, but I watched him personally in Columbus at the Legacy GP stall in almost every game I observed. Through various methods, such as asking his opponent repeatedly what the same card does (one of the times did involve a Jace, tMS), spending several minutes during an attack phase to decide whether or not to Brainstorm, the afore mentioned 5 minutes or more spend deciding to sideboard 2-3 cards per match, and some more that have faded from memory.
And just because he may be a nice guy when he isn't playing Magic doesn't automatically disqualify him (see what I did there!) from being a savage rampant cheater in the game. Anyone who has observed him closely for more than a handful of games can see that he habitually stalls.
If that is true, then perhaps the DQ was justified. I haven't seen him play too much but if he is a slow player he eventually would be hit with slow play violations.
That is completely different from the people calling him a cheater, though. Playing slow is one thing but stacking a deck or sneaking in cards or having cards in your lap or something is different than a play or slowplay violation is it not?
To kind of reiterate what Solaran_X said, I attended Day 2 of GP Columbus (scrubbed out in Day 1, but there to watch matches and support a few friends who had Day 2'ed). The match where he played against BUG Landstill (Jason Ford, Top 4'ed), I watched pretty much everything from mid-game 2 and on. Right when they got to the end of game 2, things started slowing down a lot, and when his opponent resolved Tsabo's Decree in game 3 once again, the game and match quickly went south for him.
But he read Jace literally every turn after his board was clear and he was getting beat down by Factories. It wasn't until after the match that my teammate took me aside and told me that he had written an article on how Jace would change control once he was released. Doesn't that seem a little fishy?
Now, his tournament report after winning stated that his opponent's win conditions were "too late to arrive," where realistically, they had at least five minutes left in the match. When your opponent is not only Loaming more Factories back and fatesealing you out of the game, it shouldn't take more than 5 minutes to die, even if it is a pair of 2/2 Factories attacking.
If that is true, then perhaps the DQ was justified. I haven't seen him play too much but if he is a slow player he eventually would be hit with slow play violations.
That is completely different from the people calling him a cheater, though. Playing slow is one thing but stacking a deck or sneaking in cards or having cards in your lap or something is different than a play or slowplay violation is it not?
imo everyone in channelfireball is totally being rude and overreacting to stalling(no1 knows for sure if its intentional stalling too), i feel bad for saitou i hope he gets lvl 8 this season it would be a shame he has 46 points and just worlds left....
anyways im pretty sure saitou learned his lesson he was x-0 at the gp too =/ (yes i like to see the pros do good cause they travel alot)
i just hope saitou gets his four points at worlds cause he couldve easily gotten 2 points at that gp
imo everyone in channelfireball is totally being rude and overreacting to stalling(no1 knows for sure if its intentional stalling too),
Stalling, by definition, is intentional. Saito was cheating, and was disqualified for it. He has been suspected of stalling many, many times. Finally he has been caught and punished. I hope he loses his Hall of Fame bid over this. I don't feel sorry for him. You know who I feel sorry for? All the opponents he's cheated in the past.
Stalling, by definition, is intentional. Saito was cheating, and was disqualified for it. He has been suspected of stalling many, many times. Finally he has been caught and punished. I hope he loses his Hall of Fame bid over this. I don't feel sorry for him. You know who I feel sorry for? All the opponents he's cheated in the past.
Yes, because then the Hall of Fame will have no cheaters in it...
I still feel strange about this. About ten years ago, with my second disqualification I was suspended. When that was over I started playing again and I was strongly aware I needed to straighten up my play. Yet, I am facing the same thing again.
In round 6, I was warned for slow play as there was little time left in the round. Later in the game, I was called to the judge station and I was told 'After we confirmed with you that there was only 3 minutes left, your play slowed'. It is true that my play was slow after I was warned about the time, but that has nothing to do with how much time was on the clock.
For several turns, the battlefield was calm and there were not many attacks. My opponent left one creature behind and attacked with the rest (He had 10 creatures on the board, I had 5 creatures, a tumble magnet and a contagion clasp) and I was thinking really hard about how to deal with the attack. I was told that I had played faster before the remaining time hit zero, but it was just that prior to the attack decisions were easy to make.
My intent was definitely never to play slower for the last 3 minutes. But according to the judge, 'I was watching and it appeared intentional, in this case even if there was a reason and regardless of who it is its a DQ. The fact remains his play slowed as the clock was running out.' I was told that and accepted it.
My luck was terrible that in that game the most difficult moment of the game happened during the last 3 minutes of the game and my thinking through that situation caused my DQ. If I could do it again, I think all I could do is be aware that there is a risk of seeming suspicious when the time is slow and to try to keep that in mind that I need to play it faster. However, I can't ignore the reality that it was the most difficult, most important play of the day.
As I stated in the beginning, it feels really strange. I guess this kind of thing happens suddenly like that.
Stated again, it was the worst timing for the most difficult situation to happen and in truth I was seriously thinking when I was accused. I swear to Magic: The Gathering and all of the people involved in the game that that is the truth. I am not pleased by the ruling but the ruling of the Head Judge is absolute and as a pro player I fully appreciate the importance of maintaining a large tournament."
All of the accusations of cheating aside, we don't know what game this was. If it was game 2 and he had won the first game, he could potentially stand to benefit from stalling. But we don't know what game it was and if he was up or down a game. It seems that it was a very complicated game-state and that anyone would need time to think through the decision, would they they not?
It is a shame that he was DQ in that situation. I know many of you think he cheated in the past and are perhaps biased to think that he would be stalling in this situation, but I don't think anyone could disagree with the complexity of the described board state.
I still feel strange about this. About ten years ago, with my second disqualification I was suspended. When that was over I started playing again and I was strongly aware I needed to straighten up my play. Yet, I am facing the same thing again.
In round 6, I was warned for slow play as there was little time left in the round. Later in the game, I was called to the judge station and I was told 'After we confirmed with you that there was only 3 minutes left, your play slowed'. It is true that my play was slow after I was warned about the time, but that has nothing to do with how much time was on the clock.
For several turns, the battlefield was calm and there were not many attacks. My opponent left one creature behind and attacked with the rest (He had 10 creatures on the board, I had 5 creatures, a tumble magnet and a contagion clasp) and I was thinking really hard about how to deal with the attack. I was told that I had played faster before the remaining time hit zero, but it was just that prior to the attack decisions were easy to make.
My intent was definitely never to play slower for the last 3 minutes. But according to the judge, 'I was watching and it appeared intentional, in this case even if there was a reason and regardless of who it is its a DQ. The fact remains his play slowed as the clock was running out.' I was told that and accepted it.
My luck was terrible that in that game the most difficult moment of the game happened during the last 3 minutes of the game and my thinking through that situation caused my DQ. If I could do it again, I think all I could do is be aware that there is a risk of seeming suspicious when the time is slow and to try to keep that in mind that I need to play it faster. However, I can't ignore the reality that it was the most difficult, most important play of the day.
As I stated in the beginning, it feels really strange. I guess this kind of thing happens suddenly like that.
Stated again, it was the worst timing for the most difficult situation to happen and in truth I was seriously thinking when I was accused. I swear to Magic: The Gathering and all of the people involved in the game that that is the truth. I am not pleased by the ruling but the ruling of the Head Judge is absolute and as a pro player I fully appreciate the importance of maintaining a large tournament."
All of the accusations of cheating aside, we don't know what game this was. If it was game 2 and he had won the first game, he could potentially stand to benefit from stalling. But we don't know what game it was and if he was up or down a game. It seems that it was a very complicated game-state and that anyone would need time to think through the decision, would they they not?
It is a shame that he was DQ in that situation. I know many of you think he cheated in the past and are perhaps biased to think that he would be stalling in this situation, but I don't think anyone could disagree with the complexity of the described board state.
Without knowing what creatures are in play and being used how, how many cards the opponent has, and what cards Saito has in hand with what mana available...the board position is pretty simple and easy to assess based on available information.
In a best case scenario, 3 of the opponent's creatures are getting through. Assuming the highest power creature is hit with a Tumble Magnet (does it have counters left? Is it untapped? Saito left that out) and the lowest toughness creature is hit with Contagion Clasp and killed. That leaves eight creatures in the middle to be blocked by five of Saitos. Logic suggests that the five highest power creatures of the remaining eight are blocked, allowing a bare minimum of 3 damage through (assuming all creatures are 1/X).
In a worst case scenario, 5 of the opponent's creatures are getting through. Assuming Tumble Magnet is tapped and out of counters, and Contagion Clasp is unable to kill anything. That leaves 5 of Saito's creatures to block 5 of the opponent's creatures, with a minimum damage of 5 getting through (assuming all creatures are 1/X again).
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I was driven from this once-great site by abusive mods and admins, who create rules out of thin air to punish people for breaking them (meaning the rule does not exist under forum rules) and selectively enforce the rules that are written on the forum rules. I am currently lurking while deleting 6 years and 2 months of posting history. I will return when ExpiredRascals, Teia Rabishu and Blinking Spirit are no longer in power.
Ya, doesn't sound all that complicated to me, this is Scars of Mirrordin limited we're talking about after all. There's no excuse for behavior like this at any level. Sounds to me that he didn't want to lose, and would have rather stalled out the game and gotten a draw.
Ya, doesn't sound all that complicated to me, this is Scars of Mirrordin limited we're talking about after all. There's no excuse for behavior like this at any level. Sounds to me that he didn't want to lose, and would have rather stalled out the game and gotten a draw.
That sounds like a very large over simplification. A board with 15 creatures would hard to call simple in any situation.
That sounds like a very large over simplification. A board with 15 creatures would hard to call simple in any situation.
When the only information you're given is a total of 16 creatures and 2 artifacts, it is very simple. Since Saito left out the specifics about the board positions, hands, and mana...all we have is that little bit of information, and it's simple to assess a position based on what we were given.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I was driven from this once-great site by abusive mods and admins, who create rules out of thin air to punish people for breaking them (meaning the rule does not exist under forum rules) and selectively enforce the rules that are written on the forum rules. I am currently lurking while deleting 6 years and 2 months of posting history. I will return when ExpiredRascals, Teia Rabishu and Blinking Spirit are no longer in power.
Without knowing what creatures are in play and being used how, how many cards the opponent has, and what cards Saito has in hand with what mana available...the board position is pretty simple and easy to assess based on available information.
In a best case scenario, 3 of the opponent's creatures are getting through. Assuming the highest power creature is hit with a Tumble Magnet (does it have counters left? Is it untapped? Saito left that out) and the lowest toughness creature is hit with Contagion Clasp and killed. That leaves eight creatures in the middle to be blocked by five of Saitos. Logic suggests that the five highest power creatures of the remaining eight are blocked, allowing a bare minimum of 3 damage through (assuming all creatures are 1/X).
In a worst case scenario, 5 of the opponent's creatures are getting through. Assuming Tumble Magnet is tapped and out of counters, and Contagion Clasp is unable to kill anything. That leaves 5 of Saito's creatures to block 5 of the opponent's creatures, with a minimum damage of 5 getting through (assuming all creatures are 1/X again).
That is a ridiculous oversimplification. If you want to maximize your EV, you need to go through various scenarios involving cards that your opponent might have and then you need to think about the likelihood that they have such cards.
I still feel strange about this. About ten years ago, with my second disqualification I was suspended. When that was over I started playing again and I was strongly aware I needed to straighten up my play. Yet, I am facing the same thing again.
In round 6, I was warned for slow play as there was little time left in the round. Later in the game, I was called to the judge station and I was told 'After we confirmed with you that there was only 3 minutes left, your play slowed'. It is true that my play was slow after I was warned about the time, but that has nothing to do with how much time was on the clock.
For several turns, the battlefield was calm and there were not many attacks. My opponent left one creature behind and attacked with the rest (He had 10 creatures on the board, I had 5 creatures, a tumble magnet and a contagion clasp) and I was thinking really hard about how to deal with the attack. I was told that I had played faster before the remaining time hit zero, but it was just that prior to the attack decisions were easy to make.
My intent was definitely never to play slower for the last 3 minutes. But according to the judge, 'I was watching and it appeared intentional, in this case even if there was a reason and regardless of who it is its a DQ. The fact remains his play slowed as the clock was running out.' I was told that and accepted it.
My luck was terrible that in that game the most difficult moment of the game happened during the last 3 minutes of the game and my thinking through that situation caused my DQ. If I could do it again, I think all I could do is be aware that there is a risk of seeming suspicious when the time is slow and to try to keep that in mind that I need to play it faster. However, I can't ignore the reality that it was the most difficult, most important play of the day.
As I stated in the beginning, it feels really strange. I guess this kind of thing happens suddenly like that.
Stated again, it was the worst timing for the most difficult situation to happen and in truth I was seriously thinking when I was accused. I swear to Magic: The Gathering and all of the people involved in the game that that is the truth. I am not pleased by the ruling but the ruling of the Head Judge is absolute and as a pro player I fully appreciate the importance of maintaining a large tournament."
All of the accusations of cheating aside, we don't know what game this was. If it was game 2 and he had won the first game, he could potentially stand to benefit from stalling. But we don't know what game it was and if he was up or down a game. It seems that it was a very complicated game-state and that anyone would need time to think through the decision, would they they not?
It is a shame that he was DQ in that situation. I know many of you think he cheated in the past and are perhaps biased to think that he would be stalling in this situation, but I don't think anyone could disagree with the complexity of the described board state.
I might have some sympathy/be inclined to believe him if Saito didn't get accused of cheating in various difficult-to-track ways...constantly. At this point, he's like the boy that cried wolf, except the town believed him 20 times before finally getting wise.
As is, I hope he gets suspended, removed from POY contention, and quits playing Magic. He's cheated and gotten away with it for long enough.
Given that he has a long history of questionable actions, I can't say I'm rooting for him. Judges don't do this lightly, and all of his defense for his past actions have been half-truths and dodges, to the tune of "I am not a crook" or "It depends upon what the meaning of the word 'is' is".
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
In some scenarios I play very slow due to complex board positions, or taking into consideration what i could do during the current turn and next and determine what play may be the most correct. I also try to evaluate the board position and see what could happen depending on which creatures attack and block, and which of my opponent's creatures can swing next turn. This becomes very relevant when you're under 8-10 life. I've had players complain about me playing slow, and this doesn't happen often, but during high level play I of course don't want to rush and misplay, so my pace can be slower, but I don't want accusations of foul play. In the event of timers, i usually either cannot see them or don't even bother to look that way because i'm more concerned with the state of play.
Sleeping, occurring, after all, you do not understand well and. For a while 10 body full from abruptness removal being attacked battle with the game which is not, being difficult, after it verified accidental remaining time 3 minutes that you thought, the [tsu] [te] [yu] [u] which is. With that as for DQ honesty wonder
Because remaining time is limited, however without being the case that it has become slow it conveyed many degrees it was useless, and at that place only you followed decision. Therefore judgment of the head judge absoluteness very, favorite the large tournament having been formed as for me knowing, the [ru].
Haha. Google translation is funny.
Sorry guys, I was asleep. I just woke up. The time difference is huge, but now that I am awake I'll translate it for you:
"寝て起きてもやっぱりよく分からないや。戦闘がしばらくなかったゲームで突然除去からの10体フルアタックされて難しくて考えたのが偶然残り時間3分を確認した後だったってゆう。それでDQは正直不思議"
Translation: I slept on it, I woke up today and still don't really understand {the ruling}. It was a game without a lot of combat and suddenly, because of removal I was facing an attack from 10 creatures and it was just a coincidence that I had only 3 minutes left to think really hard about it. In that kind of situation getting DQ seems honestly, confusing.
"残り時間が少ないから遅くなっていたわけではない事を何度も伝えたけど駄目だった、そしてその場では裁定に従うしかなかった。ヘッドジャッジの判断が絶対だからこそ、大好きな大きいトーナメントが成立している事を僕は知ってる。"
Translation: It isn't that I started playing slower because there was not a lot of time left, I explained that several times to no avail. And in that situation I had to abide by the ruling. The ruling of the Head Judge is absolute and I understand the importance of maintaining a huge tournament.
Don't Trust Your Secrets To The Sea...
0The 4th Haiku contest has begun! Enter to win a playset of Japanese Bonehoards0
Haiku Contest History
RUB
Except he has a reputation of doing exactly this, even when board state is not confusing. There is a reason why he was (likely) being more closely scrutinized than the other players at GP: Florence.
We're talking about Saito, arguably one of the best players in the world, who claimed not to understand what his opponent's English Jace, the Mind Sculptor did. I don't know about any of you, but if you put a Japanese Jace, the Mind Sculptor in front of me, I know exactly what it does.
He's also been known to take upwards of 5 minutes to sideboard (when others get warnings for slow play if they go above 3 minutes) on a regular basis, and take several minutes during a combat phase to decide what to block when he has 1 or 2 creatures out, no cards in hand, and is being attacked with 3-4 times as many creatures as he has.
Players like Saito make me wish top level events did away with the round time and instead implement a chess clock setup like MTGO has. Just hit the button whenever you pass priority. Would solve all the slow play problems, since slow play now would, eventually, result in your own loss when your clock runs out.
I used BabelFish. But it is nice to actually have someone who can translate it, rather than a machine.
Where exactly is it discussed that he didn't know what the English Jace did? I would like to read that. Was it originally posted in Japanese and then perhaps strangely translated?
I have personally met and hung out with Saito and he is probably the most popular Japanese player (in Japan) and I find that hard to believe if he is such a rampant cheater as it is often said.
Time difference permitting, feel free to ask me for translations!
Don't Trust Your Secrets To The Sea...
0The 4th Haiku contest has begun! Enter to win a playset of Japanese Bonehoards0
Haiku Contest History
RUB
I'd have to look, but I watched him personally in Columbus at the Legacy GP stall in almost every game I observed. Through various methods, such as asking his opponent repeatedly what the same card does (one of the times did involve a Jace, tMS), spending several minutes during an attack phase to decide whether or not to Brainstorm, the afore mentioned 5 minutes or more spend deciding to sideboard 2-3 cards per match, and some more that have faded from memory.
And just because he may be a nice guy when he isn't playing Magic doesn't automatically disqualify him (see what I did there!) from being a savage rampant cheater in the game. Anyone who has observed him closely for more than a handful of games can see that he habitually stalls.
If that is true, then perhaps the DQ was justified. I haven't seen him play too much but if he is a slow player he eventually would be hit with slow play violations.
That is completely different from the people calling him a cheater, though. Playing slow is one thing but stacking a deck or sneaking in cards or having cards in your lap or something is different than a play or slowplay violation is it not?
It just seems that people should say stuff like "Nice job cheating you hypocritical scumbag. Get this lowlife off the site, for every time he gets caught cheating he’s gotten away with it 10x" in the comments on the article here http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/important-things-for-tournament-success-part-7-other-lessons-learned/ are assuming slow play is the same as stacking a deck?
Don't Trust Your Secrets To The Sea...
0The 4th Haiku contest has begun! Enter to win a playset of Japanese Bonehoards0
Haiku Contest History
RUB
But he read Jace literally every turn after his board was clear and he was getting beat down by Factories. It wasn't until after the match that my teammate took me aside and told me that he had written an article on how Jace would change control once he was released. Doesn't that seem a little fishy?
Now, his tournament report after winning stated that his opponent's win conditions were "too late to arrive," where realistically, they had at least five minutes left in the match. When your opponent is not only Loaming more Factories back and fatesealing you out of the game, it shouldn't take more than 5 minutes to die, even if it is a pair of 2/2 Factories attacking.
thx for the translation!!!
imo everyone in channelfireball is totally being rude and overreacting to stalling(no1 knows for sure if its intentional stalling too), i feel bad for saitou i hope he gets lvl 8 this season it would be a shame he has 46 points and just worlds left....
anyways im pretty sure saitou learned his lesson he was x-0 at the gp too =/ (yes i like to see the pros do good cause they travel alot)
i just hope saitou gets his four points at worlds cause he couldve easily gotten 2 points at that gp
Stalling, by definition, is intentional. Saito was cheating, and was disqualified for it. He has been suspected of stalling many, many times. Finally he has been caught and punished. I hope he loses his Hall of Fame bid over this. I don't feel sorry for him. You know who I feel sorry for? All the opponents he's cheated in the past.
Yes, because then the Hall of Fame will have no cheaters in it...
"About the Florence GP DQ
I still feel strange about this. About ten years ago, with my second disqualification I was suspended. When that was over I started playing again and I was strongly aware I needed to straighten up my play. Yet, I am facing the same thing again.
In round 6, I was warned for slow play as there was little time left in the round. Later in the game, I was called to the judge station and I was told 'After we confirmed with you that there was only 3 minutes left, your play slowed'. It is true that my play was slow after I was warned about the time, but that has nothing to do with how much time was on the clock.
For several turns, the battlefield was calm and there were not many attacks. My opponent left one creature behind and attacked with the rest (He had 10 creatures on the board, I had 5 creatures, a tumble magnet and a contagion clasp) and I was thinking really hard about how to deal with the attack. I was told that I had played faster before the remaining time hit zero, but it was just that prior to the attack decisions were easy to make.
My intent was definitely never to play slower for the last 3 minutes. But according to the judge, 'I was watching and it appeared intentional, in this case even if there was a reason and regardless of who it is its a DQ. The fact remains his play slowed as the clock was running out.' I was told that and accepted it.
My luck was terrible that in that game the most difficult moment of the game happened during the last 3 minutes of the game and my thinking through that situation caused my DQ. If I could do it again, I think all I could do is be aware that there is a risk of seeming suspicious when the time is slow and to try to keep that in mind that I need to play it faster. However, I can't ignore the reality that it was the most difficult, most important play of the day.
As I stated in the beginning, it feels really strange. I guess this kind of thing happens suddenly like that.
Stated again, it was the worst timing for the most difficult situation to happen and in truth I was seriously thinking when I was accused. I swear to Magic: The Gathering and all of the people involved in the game that that is the truth. I am not pleased by the ruling but the ruling of the Head Judge is absolute and as a pro player I fully appreciate the importance of maintaining a large tournament."
All of the accusations of cheating aside, we don't know what game this was. If it was game 2 and he had won the first game, he could potentially stand to benefit from stalling. But we don't know what game it was and if he was up or down a game. It seems that it was a very complicated game-state and that anyone would need time to think through the decision, would they they not?
It is a shame that he was DQ in that situation. I know many of you think he cheated in the past and are perhaps biased to think that he would be stalling in this situation, but I don't think anyone could disagree with the complexity of the described board state.
Don't Trust Your Secrets To The Sea...
0The 4th Haiku contest has begun! Enter to win a playset of Japanese Bonehoards0
Haiku Contest History
RUB
Without knowing what creatures are in play and being used how, how many cards the opponent has, and what cards Saito has in hand with what mana available...the board position is pretty simple and easy to assess based on available information.
In a best case scenario, 3 of the opponent's creatures are getting through. Assuming the highest power creature is hit with a Tumble Magnet (does it have counters left? Is it untapped? Saito left that out) and the lowest toughness creature is hit with Contagion Clasp and killed. That leaves eight creatures in the middle to be blocked by five of Saitos. Logic suggests that the five highest power creatures of the remaining eight are blocked, allowing a bare minimum of 3 damage through (assuming all creatures are 1/X).
In a worst case scenario, 5 of the opponent's creatures are getting through. Assuming Tumble Magnet is tapped and out of counters, and Contagion Clasp is unable to kill anything. That leaves 5 of Saito's creatures to block 5 of the opponent's creatures, with a minimum damage of 5 getting through (assuming all creatures are 1/X again).
That sounds like a very large over simplification. A board with 15 creatures would hard to call simple in any situation.
Don't Trust Your Secrets To The Sea...
0The 4th Haiku contest has begun! Enter to win a playset of Japanese Bonehoards0
Haiku Contest History
RUB
When the only information you're given is a total of 16 creatures and 2 artifacts, it is very simple. Since Saito left out the specifics about the board positions, hands, and mana...all we have is that little bit of information, and it's simple to assess a position based on what we were given.
That is a ridiculous oversimplification. If you want to maximize your EV, you need to go through various scenarios involving cards that your opponent might have and then you need to think about the likelihood that they have such cards.
I might have some sympathy/be inclined to believe him if Saito didn't get accused of cheating in various difficult-to-track ways...constantly. At this point, he's like the boy that cried wolf, except the town believed him 20 times before finally getting wise.
As is, I hope he gets suspended, removed from POY contention, and quits playing Magic. He's cheated and gotten away with it for long enough.