--
This statement was prepared by Lubos Lauer - Head Judge GP Malmo
A spectator witnessed Olivier Ruel shuffle an opponent's deck while looking at the cards. In a later round a senior judge witnessed this as well. After thorough consideration he was disqualified. The DCI will determine further steps.
As of August Second 2006, Oliver Ruel has been Suspended from the DCI for 6 months.
--
I don't know there is suspension or not, but DQ of the superstar player is shocking news. He already has 38 Pro Point and now 2nd in POY standing, but this will make things completely different.
If it had only happened once, I'd be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, which is probably exactly what they did..but to do that and have it noticed twice in one event..I'm wholly disappointed, honestly. I always thought of both Ruel's as highly upstanding players and professionals..it just makes you wonder who else does stuff like this and just gets away with it.
While netdecking and testing VileHorror i thought about Biorhythm. Sure its really expensive, off-color and crappy but still you're always the one with creatures while playing VH. That made me think.
Which in honesty Can be a mistake on his part as the way he shuffles. I wouldn't make this to be such a big deal untill the DCI announce what they plan to do.
I have to believe that a professional of Ruel's standing would realize that, if you're going to shuffle your opponent's deck, you either look away or look at your opponent while you're doing it..you don't look at the deck. That's common sense.
Problem is most people have a reflex to look at what there doing:)
So I say its no big deal until DCI says something. Not all judges are great at things and not everyone is perfect when watching. I could come up with a 100 ideas of what happened But the fact is He got DQ on something that could of been human reflex. Its not our choice to decide if it was thought. Thankfully.
I do hope that it just ends at that one DQ and from there a puplic smack from a judge saying Shuffle better...
Also I wouldn't group him with mike long as Mike long was Renouned for Cheating and underhanded tricks...
Well, it is a big deal for him. He got DQ'd, and this is going to become a part of his legacy. In addition, it will affect the likelihood of his getting into the Hall of Fame someday (C.F., Mike Long).
I have shuffled cards face-up before, not to look, but to prevent warping. I wonder if that is what he was doing.
Harkius
Whoa, calm down chief.
Making a mistake is far from some of the stuff Mike Long got away with (allegedly )
Quote from SapphireTri »
Problem is most people have a reflex to look at what there doing:)
That is another issue with this situation. I can't speak for Ruel, but I know I often look at the deck (face down as to not see the cards) and my hands because I am a bit clumsy when shuffling. I watch what am I doing so as not to drop the cards, accidentally flip cards over by dropping them, or worse damage them if the opponent isn't using sleeves. I do the same with my decks.
Accidents happen.
I'm sure after the DCI addresses this, even Olivier will address this in an upcoming "Ask the Pro" column on magicthegathering.com (seriously, who isn't going to ask about this now?)
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Don't read anything LaPille. Your brain will thank you later. ----> VICTORY!
I have to believe that a professional of Ruel's standing would realize that, if you're going to shuffle your opponent's deck, you either look away or look at your opponent while you're doing it..you don't look at the deck. That's common sense.
That's what I do...and I'm far from a pro.
So I find it hard to believe that this was a mistake especially after ocurring twice in a high level event.
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Spread the word.
I don't think it will tarnish his record all that much. Any Dave Williams fans here? Remember that he got DQ'ed at worlds a few years ago...yea, didn't think so. Now I'm not a pro player, or anywhere near it for that matter, but I can say that stuff like this happens. I always try to look away while shuffling a deck, but sometime a card slips out of the riffle or something else happens, and you instictively look down.
On a side note, how many questions do you think he gets in ask the pro that are along the lines of: WTF were you thinking?
Edit: shoot, American nightmare beat me by a minute with the ask the pro thing...
I am not saying that Olivier Ruel is a cheater. I am saying that he will have a harder time getting into the Hall of Fame with this on his record. Much like Mike Long has.
End of story. I spend my time in Debate and Philosophy. I thought that people all over the site read your words carefully. I will be more cognizant of the fact that they don't in the future.
Harkius
I can't believe I forgot this.
Bob Maher has a DQ suspension on his record, and he is going to be this year's "Finkel" (i.e. he's the only guarantee) for HOF this year. Oli will be fine in a few years.
EDIT: Corrected for factual reasons. It was a suspension I was thinking of.
He was also disqualified at PT: New York in 2001 if my memory serves correctly. I think he tried to get Zvi Mowshowitz to concede to him so he could get T32 or T16 to qualify for the next PT (and maybe put him on the gravy train, I'm not sure though) in exchange for the difference in prizes. Alan Comer heard them talking and turned him in.
I'm not sure it's that big of a deal. Of course it was intentional. Even seeing a few colors of the cards your up against is a huge advantage. A player like him, who writes for wizards.com no less, will probably only get a slap on the wrist.
Maher's suspension was due to point fixing, and he had no real knowledge of what was happening. In short, Maher was suspended not for what he did, but for being a part of someone else's issue.
Harkius
This is false. Bob Maher knew exactly what was going on and he admitted to it later that year (1998 I believe).
Bob Maher has a DQ suspension on his record, and he is going to be this year's "Finkel" (i.e. he's the only guarantee) for HOF this year. Oli will be fine in a few years.
EDIT: Corrected for factual reasons. It was a suspension I was thinking of.
Maher's suspension was due to point fixing, and he had no real knowledge of what was happening. In short, Maher was suspended not for what he did, but for being a part of someone else's issue.
Harkius
This is false. Bob Maher knew exactly what was going on and he admitted to it later that year (1998 I believe).
From Aaron Forsythe's article on January 28, 2002:
Bob Maher, winner of Pro Tour - Chicago 1999, is being punished for a different - and possibly more serious - crime: tournament fraud. Along with fellow Wisconsin residents Jason Moungey and Chad Butterfield, Maher was involved in considerable tournament fraud that increased the rating of Maher and Moungey, resulting in Maher getting invited to World Championships.
Butterfield was the official Tournament Organizer of these activities, and Moungey also used his inflated rating to secure PT invites; the two of them received the standard five-year suspensions for tournament fraud, a la Theron Martin. Maher received a reduced six-month suspension thanks to the DCI's "whistleblower" clause.
The whistleblower clause allows people to come forward to the DCI regarding any tournament fraud they may have committed or been involved in. They must do so with 100% disclosure and full honesty, and then, depending on other variables, their suspensions stand to be much smaller than peoples' who do not turn themselves in.
Maher did just that, turning himself in to the DCI after Grand Prix - Seattle in January, 2000. Maher approached the DCI with some information after his relationship with the other parties in the incident had soured. He admitted his involvement in the tournament fraud and expressed regret for his actions: "I wished it never happened and I'm a different person now." After a long and grueling investigation, all involved parties have been punished and the false tournaments are being stricken from the records.
Zantides said, "Because Maher helped with the investigation, he received what we call the 'whistleblower' penalty. This is similar to the Kenny Crawford situation [involving Theron Martin], wherein Kenny provided complete information and allowed the DCI to clear up dozens of fraudulent tournaments. Although Maher gained much more than Crawford, he still received much less than the standard 5-year penalty. When 'whistleblowers' have gained significant advantages from their fraud, such as Maher's 1999 World Championship invitation, they will still receive some small penalty, but much less than others who are involved in the fraud but did not come forward with information before being contacted by the DCI.
"I strongly encourage people who have tournament fraud in their past to come forward and provide information," Zantides added, "It's much better to confess and receive a light penalty, or no penalty, than to be discovered and receive a five-year penalty."
But my point was that Maher had this happen to him and he is still a virtual lock for Hall of Fame regardless of the circumstances.
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Don't read anything LaPille. Your brain will thank you later. ----> VICTORY!
It's nice to see that the pros aren't exempt from the rules just like the rest of us. Even if this is a misunderstanding, it's how the judges should deal with any case like this. A pro should know better, though. I mean, he's doing this like its his job. He's gotta be more careful.
I understand why he was DQ'ed but sometimes you get a peek at your opponents library, usually the bottom card. In those cases I usually ask my opponent to cut their library and tell them I saw their bottom card. If this Ruel was shuffling the cards face-up and he's supposedly a pro at MtG then perhaps he needs a primer in the basics of shuffling. I usually do it at an angle, the cardface facing away from me and towards my opponent.
I doubt he was shuffling them face up, heh. He was probably holding them sideways to shuffle them, and when you shuffle that way, it's easy to look at the cards(which is why you should look away while you're doing it, it's not exactly hard to shuffle cards w/o looking).
And I'm not big on the tourny scene, but who is Mike Long, and what did he do to be so infamous?
Mike Long is infamous for (to put it nicely) less than ethical behavior. He was also the first player to have success at a major tournament with a combo deck, winning Pro Tour Paris 1997 with ProsBloom. He also won the '98 Invitational thus creating Rootwater Thief
Honestly, I don't know the whole story of Mike Long's [alleged] cheats, so I'll just link to his Wikipedia article and leave it at that since that has more info than I do.
I do remember that there was a lot of arguments over whether or not he would/should get elected to the Pro Tour HOF last year, including Mark Rosewater publicly stating that he would vote for Long.
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Don't read anything LaPille. Your brain will thank you later. ----> VICTORY!
I have to believe that a professional of Ruel's standing would realize that, if you're going to shuffle your opponent's deck, you either look away or look at your opponent while you're doing it..you don't look at the deck. That's common sense.
What do those of us without any semblance of manual dexterity do?
I know I need to shuffle my opponent's cards, but my sensorimotor dysfunction sorta makes that impossible without intense concentration on my own hands.
Am I doomed to never move beyond REL 3?
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Wow man, I've had similar occurences at my cardshop. When the favorites of the cardshop stop by the shop loans them cards and from what I understand the shop gets to keep X amount of the prize money. Also minor infractions are held at the highest anger against mistakes from non-Favorites of the shop while the considred profesionals are given free reign. Maybe the title of PT winner has gone to Ruel's head? I sure hope not, people are people and prone to make mistakes. Though *******s are *******s.
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When the finger points to the yonder moon,
The fool will not look at the fingertip.
The Whole cannot be changed.
We've already lost that chance.
Because the time left to us was short.
We were mistaken in our path.
But now do we realize,
We should not change the whole,
But the parts.
@DotHackerElk: WTF are you talking about..what does the fact that your local card judge sucks have to do w/ Ruel possibly cheating?
@Horseshoe Hermit: Then you just have to shuffle in a different manner that doesn't allow you to see your opponent's cards? Shuffle the cards face-down or something...or just pile shuffle and then cut.
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http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgevent/gpmalm06/welcome#14
says:
--
This statement was prepared by Lubos Lauer - Head Judge GP Malmo
A spectator witnessed Olivier Ruel shuffle an opponent's deck while looking at the cards. In a later round a senior judge witnessed this as well. After thorough consideration he was disqualified. The DCI will determine further steps.
As of August Second 2006, Oliver Ruel has been Suspended from the DCI for 6 months.
--
I don't know there is suspension or not, but DQ of the superstar player is shocking news. He already has 38 Pro Point and now 2nd in POY standing, but this will make things completely different.
Celebrating 3 years of open-minded acceptance, indispensable help, great advice, and incalculably-creative deck-design... Thanks for all the magic!
So I say its no big deal until DCI says something. Not all judges are great at things and not everyone is perfect when watching. I could come up with a 100 ideas of what happened But the fact is He got DQ on something that could of been human reflex. Its not our choice to decide if it was thought. Thankfully.
I do hope that it just ends at that one DQ and from there a puplic smack from a judge saying Shuffle better...
Also I wouldn't group him with mike long as Mike long was Renouned for Cheating and underhanded tricks...
Thanks to R&Doom at Ye Olde Sig and Avatar Shoppe for resizing a painting by Stanley Donwood
Whoa, calm down chief.
Making a mistake is far from some of the stuff Mike Long got away with (allegedly )
That is another issue with this situation. I can't speak for Ruel, but I know I often look at the deck (face down as to not see the cards) and my hands because I am a bit clumsy when shuffling. I watch what am I doing so as not to drop the cards, accidentally flip cards over by dropping them, or worse damage them if the opponent isn't using sleeves. I do the same with my decks.
Accidents happen.
I'm sure after the DCI addresses this, even Olivier will address this in an upcoming "Ask the Pro" column on magicthegathering.com (seriously, who isn't going to ask about this now?)
Some people just love Jace a little too much
So I find it hard to believe that this was a mistake especially after ocurring twice in a high level event.
Spread the word.
On a side note, how many questions do you think he gets in ask the pro that are along the lines of: WTF were you thinking?
Edit: shoot, American nightmare beat me by a minute with the ask the pro thing...
I can't believe I forgot this.
Bob Maher has a
DQsuspension on his record, and he is going to be this year's "Finkel" (i.e. he's the only guarantee) for HOF this year. Oli will be fine in a few years.EDIT: Corrected for factual reasons. It was a suspension I was thinking of.
Some people just love Jace a little too much
I'm not sure it's that big of a deal. Of course it was intentional. Even seeing a few colors of the cards your up against is a huge advantage. A player like him, who writes for wizards.com no less, will probably only get a slap on the wrist.
This is false. Bob Maher knew exactly what was going on and he admitted to it later that year (1998 I believe).
From Aaron Forsythe's article on January 28, 2002:
But my point was that Maher had this happen to him and he is still a virtual lock for Hall of Fame regardless of the circumstances.
Some people just love Jace a little too much
Akuma will wreck you.
And I'm not big on the tourny scene, but who is Mike Long, and what did he do to be so infamous?
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I have Pro Points (although not many), and I'm clumsy and careless enough to have worries about this kind of thing happening to me.
I'm not going to say he's innocent, but it's possible.
Mike Long is infamous for (to put it nicely) less than ethical behavior. He was also the first player to have success at a major tournament with a combo deck, winning Pro Tour Paris 1997 with ProsBloom. He also won the '98 Invitational thus creating Rootwater Thief
Honestly, I don't know the whole story of Mike Long's [alleged] cheats, so I'll just link to his Wikipedia article and leave it at that since that has more info than I do.
I do remember that there was a lot of arguments over whether or not he would/should get elected to the Pro Tour HOF last year, including Mark Rosewater publicly stating that he would vote for Long.
Some people just love Jace a little too much
What do those of us without any semblance of manual dexterity do?
I know I need to shuffle my opponent's cards, but my sensorimotor dysfunction sorta makes that impossible without intense concentration on my own hands.
Am I doomed to never move beyond REL 3?
Awesome avatar provided by Krashbot @ [Epic Graphics].
When the finger points to the yonder moon,
The fool will not look at the fingertip.
The Whole cannot be changed.
We've already lost that chance.
Because the time left to us was short.
We were mistaken in our path.
But now do we realize,
We should not change the whole,
But the parts.
-Epitaph 01-02
I wonder if he'll get his Pro Player card pulled from upcoming sets...
@Horseshoe Hermit: Then you just have to shuffle in a different manner that doesn't allow you to see your opponent's cards? Shuffle the cards face-down or something...or just pile shuffle and then cut.