Cranial Insertion: Morningtide!

  • #1
    This thread is for the discussion of my latest article, Cranial Insertion: Morningtide!. We would be grateful if you would let us know what you think, but please keep your comments on topic.
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    "I do not consider myself a hero. I know only what the Vec teach:
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    Go read! I am one of the three authors of Cranial Insertion. toot

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  • #2
    Just a clarification/explanation perhaps ...


    Q: In a Two-Headed Giant game, I control an Obsidian Battle-Axe and my teammate plays a changeling. Can I put my Axe on his guy?

    A: Sure! The equip ability requires a target creature you control, but Equipments chafe against these harsh restraints, and will gladly sit anywhere you stick them, much like a zombified chimpanzee that will not get off my laptop stop that now or SO HELP ME

    [Cranial Insertion is experiencing technical difficulties. We apologize for this delay. Please enjoy these soothing sounds of your computer fan humming during this intermission. -The Management]

    As I was saying, the only normal restriction for which objects an Equipment can be attached to are 1) it must be a creature, and 2) it must not have protection from the Equipment's qualities. It doesn't matter who controls the equipped creature once the Equipment gets there.



    I think you missed something in the original question or this is just an incorrect answer. Player A controls the equipment and Player B controls the creatures. I'm relatively (sorry, I wanted to check the comp rules but I can't from work) certain that you can only target creatures YOU control with equipment. Similiarily, the triggered ability on the equipment from Morningtide all says "when a ____ creature comes into play under your control you may attach this equipment to it". Even in 2HG Player A does not control the changling that Player B played. Therefore, the ability will not trigger and Player A can not equip to Player B's changeling.
    EDH Decks:

    UWMerfolk (Sygg, River Guide)
    B Vampires (Anowon the Ruin Sage)
    BRU Zombies! (Lord of Tresserhorn)
    WUBRG Allies (Karona, False God)
    W Soldiers (Darien, King of Kjeldor)
  • #3
    Quote from cheddercaveman
    Just a clarification/explanation perhaps ...



    I think you missed something in the original question or this is just an incorrect answer. Player A controls the equipment and Player B controls the creatures. I'm relatively (sorry, I wanted to check the comp rules but I can't from work) certain that you can only target creatures YOU control with equipment.


    You can only target creatures you control with the Equip ability. It's still possible for your equipment to attach itself to a creature you don't control under other means.

    Similiarily, the triggered ability on the equipment from Morningtide all says "when a ____ creature comes into play under your control you may attach this equipment to it".


    Please check Gatherer on this: neither the official text nor the card image for Obsidian Battle-Axe have the "under your control" phrase.
    I am no longer on MTGS staff, so please don't contact me asking me to do staff things. :|
  • #4
    Just wanted to let you know that I facepalmed at the Cruxshadows reference... I generally like them but that song is awful. :p
  • #5
    Quote from Binary
    You can only target creatures you control with the Equip ability. It's still possible for your equipment to attach itself to a creature you don't control under other means.



    Please check Gatherer on this: neither the official text nor the card image for Obsidian Battle-Axe have the "under your control" phrase.


    Ok, I double checked the second part of your correction, and I agree with you that you can let the trigger put the equipment on your partner or even opponent's creatures. The equip ability could not trigger though as we both stated. I knew that you could end up with equipment you control on a creature you don't (Control Magic on a Creature equipped with something for instance).
    EDH Decks:

    UWMerfolk (Sygg, River Guide)
    B Vampires (Anowon the Ruin Sage)
    BRU Zombies! (Lord of Tresserhorn)
    WUBRG Allies (Karona, False God)
    W Soldiers (Darien, King of Kjeldor)
  • #6
    On Saturday I was in a pod at my states pre-release and had a similar situation happen to the following you had set down

    Q: If I play two Mudbutton Clangers and I have an Obsidian Battle-Axe, one will get haste and then the other. Can they both attack now?

    A: One had haste, but then it lost haste. It's feeling pretty sluggish now. Since it doesn't currently have haste and since you haven't controlled it continuously since your turn started, it's not going to attack for you.
    -----
    My Situation was this because it makes more sense this way
    I had 5 elves and the Obsidian Battle-Axe in play. I played the
    Elvish Promenade in my hand, 5 elf warrior tokens came into play.
    My opponent asked the judge (level 3) if this was the way it worked
    and he said this.

    "when a creature comes into play if there is a rule that gives a creature haste and later the rule is removed but before the creature has gone through an upkeep the creatures still have haste."

    He went on to explain a similar situation
    during Mirrodin block the player had a Mass Hysteria and his opponent played a 7 creature Beacon of Creation and the spell resolved and each creature had haste the opponent then went on to naturalize the Mass Hysteria those insect tokens did not lose haste and in this situation you
    had explained the creatures would not lose it either.

    As a stated based effect the game checks
    Does this creature have summoning sickness? No and does not ask the question again until the next turn.
    Once a creature loses summoning sickness it cannot gain it again until it changes zones and equiping and un-equipping does not make the creature change zones.
  • #7
    Q: Will Frogtosser Banneret reduce the prowl cost of my Rogue spells?

    A: He will indeed! Prowl is an alternate cost, but it's still a cost that involves generic mana (Well, most of the time. If the prowl cost is , you're out of luck.) so the Banneret will reduce it.

    The reason this question is always asked, both about new effects like Frogtosser Banneret, and new alternative and/or additional costs, is because of the misuse of terminology.

    No, Frogtosser Banneret will NOT reduce the "prowl cost." Nothing does. But what it will do, is reduce the COST TO PLAY the spell, even if you play it using the prowl ability. That COST TO PLAY is normally "the prowl cost," but if Frogtosser Banneret applies to the spell, it will be "the prowl cost minus 1."

    Q: What happens if one of Rivals' Duel's targets is sacrificed in response?

    A: Then nothing at all happens. The nonexistent target can't be dealt damage by the legal target, and since the nonexistent target is an illegal target, the Duel can't make it do something - in this case, it can't make it deal damage.

    Note that LKI is used to determine what type(s) the missing target had. The spell will be countered, and do nothing, if any of those types match the remaining target. Otherwise, it will resolve, and do nothing.

    Quote from gemini6778
    My opponent asked the judge (level 3) if this was the way it worked and he said this.

    "when a creature comes into play if there is a rule that gives a creature haste and later the rule is removed but before the creature has gone through an upkeep the creatures still have haste."

    He went on to explain a similar situation
    during Mirrodin block the player had a Mass Hysteria and his opponent played a 7 creature Beacon of Creation and the spell resolved and each creature had haste the opponent then went on to naturalize the Mass Hysteria those insect tokens did not lose haste and in this situation you
    had explained the creatures would not lose it either.

    The judge was wrong. "Summoning Sickness" is not a condition that a creature "catches" when it comes into play, and haste does not "remove" it. But removing either the Mass Hysteria, or Obsidian Battle-Axe, removes the haste that either gave to creatures.

    When you want to attack, if: (1) a creature entered play since the last time you started a turn, and (2) it does not have haste this time, then it cannot attack.
  • #8
    Gemini6778, level 3 or not, that judge was wrong. Summoning sickness is not a state or a characteristic that creatures gain or lose. It is a game rule, that is always in effect : a creature can't attack or use abilities with the tap symbol in its activation cost if its controller hasn't continuously controlled it since his last untap step. State-based effects do not need to check if a creature has summoning sickness or not; at all times, the creature is either affected by the rule, or it isn't.

    The haste ability basically reads : ''This creature ignores the summoning sickness rule''. If a creature you didn't control at the beginning of your turn doesn't have haste at the beginning of your declare attackers step, when all attackers are declared at one time, you can't attack with it. If it had haste earlier in the turn and then lost it, it is affected by the rule again and can't attack. One Obsidian Battle-axe can't allow you to attack with more than one ''summoning sick'' creature a turn.

    EDIT : Sarnath'd by Condor !

    EDIT : On an other topic (I'd make an other post but it's against the forum rules since no one posted after me yet), I'm a bit confused about prowl, in the situations where a rogue creature gets killed while its combat damage is on the stack. The first question about prowl in the article suggests (altough not clearly) that the opponent could prowl if its creature killed by Nameless Inversion didn't lose all creature types just before dying. However, the rules insert quoted in the next question seems to contradict that :

    The definition of prowl includes this happy little bit:


    Quote:
    ...if a player was dealt combat damage this turn by a source that, at the time it dealt that damage, was under your control and had any of this spell's creature types.


    If the creature is not in play when the damage resolves, then it's not under your control, right ? It would mean that this combat damage won't allow prowl.
    Last edited by MadMageQc: 1/21/2008 1:10:06 PM
    DCI Lvl 1 Judge

    Madness, My Sadness
    I Am My Own Savior
    -Iced Earth
  • #9
    Quote from MadMageQc
    If the creature is not in play when the damage resolves, then it's not under your control, right ? It would mean that this combat damage won't allow prowl.


    LKI
  • #10
    Quote from MadMageQc

    If the creature is not in play when the damage resolves, then it's not under your control, right ? It would mean that this combat damage won't allow prowl.



    Are you trying to say that if the rogue was killed by Last Gasp (instead of Nameless Inversion) with damage on the stack you couldn't prowl?

    I don't think that is the case.

    I believe the rule is referring to damage from an opponent's rogue being on the stack, then you do something like Ray of Command on the rogue, and then attempt to prowl. That wouldn't work.

    Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc
  • #11
    Does Auntie's Snitch trigger on Tarfire? I think no, but want to make sure.
  • #12
    No. Auntie's Snitch triggers off combat damage, and non-creatures can never deal combat damage.
    Level 3 Magic Judge
    Do you know any judges who always impress you with their work ethic, knowledge, or attitude? Nominate them to be the next Judge of the Week!
  • #13
    Quote from MadMageQc
    ...if a player was dealt combat damage this turn by a source that, at the time it dealt that damage, was under your control and had any of this spell's creature types.


    All that matters is that the SOURCE is under your control at the time it dealt damage. When combat damage is on the stack, and the creature dies, the combat damage on the stack is still a source you control. And that source has the rogue creature type as long as it wasn't Nameless Inversion'd.
  • #14
    Quote from Twanbon
    When combat damage is on the stack, and the creature dies, the combat damage on the stack is still a source you control.


    Combat damage on the stack isn't a source; the source is the creature that assigned the combat damage. Whether as it either currently exists or as it most recently existed (right before it left play). The game can determine information about that source as necessary, to determine if a player can use prowl's alternative cost or if an ability triggers (for example, Coastal Piracy).
    DCI Regional Judge (L3)
  • #15
    Quote from epeeguy
    Combat damage on the stack isn't a source; the source is the creature that assigned the combat damage. Whether as it either currently exists or as it most recently existed (right before it left play). The game can determine information about that source as necessary, to determine if a player can use prowl's alternative cost or if an ability triggers (for example, Coastal Piracy).

    Finally a clear answer from a reliable judge. Thank you Epeeguy.

    Don't insult the other people who tried to or did help. Frown -Woap
    Last edited by Woapalanne: 1/22/2008 2:53:43 PM
    DCI Lvl 1 Judge

    Madness, My Sadness
    I Am My Own Savior
    -Iced Earth
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