I'm building a WUB control deck running Gifts Ungiven. In addition to the usual Unburial Rites + Iona/Elesh Norn package, I'd like to run a Isochron Scepter package.
Currently I'm planning to gifts for Scepter + Noxious Revival + 2 CMC Instant. However I'm not sure what I can include as a 4th card to guarantee I get the Scepter. I do have a Academy Ruins, but obviously that takes more than a draw phase to get online.
What are some other good cards to allow me to return Scepter, as my opponent will generally be wise enough not to give it to me when I Gifts? Perhaps something like Scepter + Noxious + Ruins + Gitaxian Probe? Then I should be given Ruins + Probe, and I can untap, play Ruins, stack the scepter, Probe to draw for the ruins, and imprint some other instant I already have in hand. That seems rather slow...
i would just not worry about it so much ad get a snapcaster as the 4th card. odds are he wont wanna give you instant + noxious, and if he gives you snapcaster noxious, then you can noxious twice anyways.
Snapcaster Mage, Noxious Revival, Path to Exile, Isochron Scepter:
Snap + Isochron is the only way that you wont get teh combo, but you should be THRILLED if you get that from the opponent.
i would just not worry about it so much ad get a snapcaster as the 4th card. odds are he wont wanna give you instant + noxious, and if he gives you snapcaster noxious, then you can noxious twice anyways.
Snapcaster Mage, Noxious Revival, Path to Exile, Isochron Scepter:
Snap + Isochron is the only way that you wont get teh combo, but you should be THRILLED if you get that from the opponent.
Perfect! I already had Snapcaster in my list, but didn't think of him in relation to the Scepter.
i would just not worry about it so much ad get a snapcaster as the 4th card. odds are he wont wanna give you instant + noxious, and if he gives you snapcaster noxious, then you can noxious twice anyways.
Snapcaster Mage, Noxious Revival, Path to Exile, Isochron Scepter:
Snap + Isochron is the only way that you wont get teh combo, but you should be THRILLED if you get that from the opponent.
oh wait, you get teh combo with snap + scepter. snap flashes back noxious /facerpalm.
Seems like a huge investment for a small effect. You're spending 6 mana and 2 turns to get a path to exile on a stick (which can still get hit with a spell snare, repeal, cryptic, pridemage, etc).
If you want removal, why not just play Gifts Ungiven for Path To Exile, Smother, Condemn, and Snapcaster mage? You get +2 cards (both removal spells) and instead of wasting a draw (revival) you can simply use the removal spells right away. In the best case scenario w/ scepter, you get to use path 2 times after the third turn, and spend 3x the amount of mana to do so.
I would say overall, if you want to play scepter in a gifts deck, that's fine, but make sure you diversify your threats and answers so that you can use Gifts Ungiven for value. People seem to have forgotten that you can use Gifts Ungiven as an instant speed targeted "draw 2" in control decks. Most of the time, if you've built your deck correctly, you can pretty much spot on target the cards you want to draw with gifts.
For example..
Want to draw 2x counterspells at instant speed?... Gifts for - Mana Leak, Remand, Cryptic Command, Snapcaster Mage.
Want to draw 2x Removal spells at instant speed?... Gifts for - Path to Exile, Condemn, Snapcaster Mage, Repeal
Want to get late game gas at instant speed?.... Gifts for - Esper Charm, Cryptic Command, Snapcaster Mage, Repeal
Need Finishers?.... Gifts For - Snapcaster Mage, Restoration Angel, Vendilion Clique, White Sun's Zenith
I've lost count of how many times I've seen people impatiently waste their Gifts Ungiven in control decks by going right for the throat via Unburial Rites combo, even if it's not the best overall plan. That's not to say that Gifts --> Rites doesn't have it's place, but playing it impatiently is a good way to lose games that you have no business losing.
There are a lot of better cards you can get on a scepter, rather than path. Helix, remand and dual spells are just a few, but using 6 mana and 2 turns to get a path, as Badd said, seems sub-par to me.
Thanks for all the input. I'm not a hard-core modern player, but a lot of people at our FNM have been bringing modern decks for casual games. I pulled out all my rotated cards, which included 1 Gifts and 2 Scepters, and decided to make a go of it with a UWb control.
Helix seems pretty sick, maybe I should drop black for red (or splash a 4th color).
You're actually spending 8 mana and who knows how many turns to do this. I always enjoy scepter because if you play it with 4 mana available you force a 2 mana instant through that turn. Either that or it's coming next turn. On a stick...
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Currently I'm planning to gifts for Scepter + Noxious Revival + 2 CMC Instant. However I'm not sure what I can include as a 4th card to guarantee I get the Scepter. I do have a Academy Ruins, but obviously that takes more than a draw phase to get online.
What are some other good cards to allow me to return Scepter, as my opponent will generally be wise enough not to give it to me when I Gifts? Perhaps something like Scepter + Noxious + Ruins + Gitaxian Probe? Then I should be given Ruins + Probe, and I can untap, play Ruins, stack the scepter, Probe to draw for the ruins, and imprint some other instant I already have in hand. That seems rather slow...
Check out Odds//Ends - My articles on Quirky Cards and Oddball Builds
Long-time PucaTrade member and sometime author. Send me cards!
Currently playing Knight of the Reliquary - Retreat to Coralhelm Combo
Snapcaster Mage, Noxious Revival, Path to Exile, Isochron Scepter:
Snap + Isochron is the only way that you wont get teh combo, but you should be THRILLED if you get that from the opponent.
Perfect! I already had Snapcaster in my list, but didn't think of him in relation to the Scepter.
Check out Odds//Ends - My articles on Quirky Cards and Oddball Builds
Long-time PucaTrade member and sometime author. Send me cards!
Currently playing Knight of the Reliquary - Retreat to Coralhelm Combo
oh wait, you get teh combo with snap + scepter. snap flashes back noxious /facerpalm.
the card is too damn good.
Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
Quotes:
Good luck to you, sir.
If you want removal, why not just play Gifts Ungiven for Path To Exile, Smother, Condemn, and Snapcaster mage? You get +2 cards (both removal spells) and instead of wasting a draw (revival) you can simply use the removal spells right away. In the best case scenario w/ scepter, you get to use path 2 times after the third turn, and spend 3x the amount of mana to do so.
I would say overall, if you want to play scepter in a gifts deck, that's fine, but make sure you diversify your threats and answers so that you can use Gifts Ungiven for value. People seem to have forgotten that you can use Gifts Ungiven as an instant speed targeted "draw 2" in control decks. Most of the time, if you've built your deck correctly, you can pretty much spot on target the cards you want to draw with gifts.
For example..
Want to draw 2x counterspells at instant speed?... Gifts for - Mana Leak, Remand, Cryptic Command, Snapcaster Mage.
Want to draw 2x Removal spells at instant speed?... Gifts for - Path to Exile, Condemn, Snapcaster Mage, Repeal
Want to get late game gas at instant speed?.... Gifts for - Esper Charm, Cryptic Command, Snapcaster Mage, Repeal
Need Finishers?.... Gifts For - Snapcaster Mage, Restoration Angel, Vendilion Clique, White Sun's Zenith
I've lost count of how many times I've seen people impatiently waste their Gifts Ungiven in control decks by going right for the throat via Unburial Rites combo, even if it's not the best overall plan. That's not to say that Gifts --> Rites doesn't have it's place, but playing it impatiently is a good way to lose games that you have no business losing.
Helix seems pretty sick, maybe I should drop black for red (or splash a 4th color).
Check out Odds//Ends - My articles on Quirky Cards and Oddball Builds
Long-time PucaTrade member and sometime author. Send me cards!
Currently playing Knight of the Reliquary - Retreat to Coralhelm Combo