How would you build a modern goblin tribal deck? Overwhelm with one and two drops? Or go all out with the 3 available lords? Maximize on burn? Siege gang?
I have a Kuldotha Red build. It's very fun to play and it's capable of very explosive games, but it's a bit inconsistent (it's like a combo deck without draw/filter/tutor spells):
Other cards you can try: Mox Opal, Chimeric Mass, Haze of Rage, Springleaf Drum, Galvanic Blast, Lightning Bolt, Darksteel Citadel, Spikeshot Elder, Tuktuk the Explorer, Perilous Myr.
If I would build a traditional Goblins list I would start with something like this:
Or you could go the Aether Vial route. The "problem" with Goblins in Modern is that it isn't as fast and powerful as Zoo. People are loaded with responses to Zoo 'cause it is dominating the metagame, so all that hate can simply wipe away less powerful aggro decks like Goblins with ease.
People are loaded with responses to Zoo 'cause it is dominating the metagame, so all that hate can simply wipe away less powerful aggro decks like Goblins with ease.
This is the quote that defines goblins right there. I love goblins but in modern, they just can't cut it.
The "problem" with Goblins in Modern is that it isn't as fast and powerful as Zoo. People are loaded with responses to Zoo 'cause it is dominating the metagame, so all that hate can simply wipe away less powerful aggro decks like Goblins with ease.
I have to agree with this. I tried playing the following build in a fairly large Modern tournament at Worlds:
Anyway, I went 2-4, which is pretty terrible. Two of my rounds were inherently terrible matchups, too.
Round 1, I faced a white-red deck filled with nothing but Pyroclasm effects and pro-redcreatures. I actually almost won game 3, having gotten him down to 2 life and failing to topdeck a burn spell.
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
This is my current goblin deck. Brimstone volley is a new addition, it tested well in the extended locals last week, beating cruel control and jund and other decks that were put together short notice to give me a 4-0 record. I had to replace the war marshals of course, but I think brimstone volley is promising, has synergy, and can probably help us close in on the turn 4-5 win that we aim to get. It has synergy with mogg war-marshal, goblin grenade, and mogg fanatic, as well as with the fact that this is a tribal creature deck so morbid is going to activate if the opponent has any hope of surviving the onslaught. I am considering dropping the warren instigators for either wardrivers or maniacs, and I am still of the opinion that arsonist is better than fanatic. I still need to test against a strong modern metagame, my locals is under-developed in modern because it is only 2 months older than innistrad, but our standard got competitive fast so now that everyone is focused on modern I expect the same.
The other issue with Goblins is that the best goblins such as Piledriver and Warchief are in Onslaught. You can find most of the previous goblin discussion in the "Threads Archived" post.
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Yeah, Goblins just seem to have too loose of support to work as a tribe right now. Like, there are hardly any cards right now in modern to make you want to go all-goblins. Sure, we have Goblin Grenade, but even that can work in a simply "heavy" goblin RDW build.
I do love the little green guys, though, and I hope we get something good for them soon!
Wow, I'm all over these red aggro boards. I just don't know what I want to play exactly. Anyways, I updated my legacy goblins list for modern and it seems ok. In legacy, my rift bolts are fireblasts and my lava spikes are reckless abandon. I tried to maximize my 2 power one drops.
Depends, if the problem match up is that you are getting out aggro'd by zoo etc then run terminate, if control really takes off and there becomes a need to cheat your creatures into play through counter magic run aether vial. Vial gets bounced by cryptic command though and the permission in this format is kinda weak so terminate is probably best right now.
Now that the Nacatl is gone, I've been playing goblins with Blood Moon in my maindeck, and its been very effective, especially in connection with the Goblin King. I also advocate for Tutktuk in the SB as he is very effective at dealing with sweepers.
Pro-red creatures are still a problem, but I haven't seen a ton of them in my meta. SB'ing a few Dismembers is useful to get rid of them.
Other ideas: Shrine of Burning Rage might also help deal with pro-red creatures.
Now that the Nacatl is gone, I've been playing goblins with Blood Moon in my maindeck, and its been very effective, especially in connection with the Goblin King. I also advocate for Tutktuk in the SB as he is very effective at dealing with sweepers.
Pro-red creatures are still a problem, but I haven't seen a ton of them in my meta. SB'ing a few Dismembers is useful to get rid of them.
Other ideas: Shrine of Burning Rage might also help deal with pro-red creatures.
Actually, yes. This is what I am currently testing online: note: no matchup analysis yet.
I'm not a big fan of this build. 5 CMC spells are too much for a 20 land deck, grenade should be at 4, and tattermung maniac is probably better than cohort, I use arsonist/fanatic as my other 1 drop. Also it took me a minute to see what was missing, but goblin bushwhacker should be in any goblin deck, he is aggressive and great for a deck that tries to put a lot of creatures on the field or pumping warren instigator for people who like running him.
I'm not a big fan of this build. 5 CMC spells are too much for a 20 land deck, grenade should be at 4, and tattermung maniac is probably better than cohort, I use arsonist/fanatic as my other 1 drop. Also it took me a minute to see what was missing, but goblin bushwhacker should be in any goblin deck, he is aggressive and great for a deck that tries to put a lot of creatures on the field or pumping warren instigator for people who like running him.
Yeah, I played 5-6 Games online. I see your point about Maniac vs. Cohort, that is my first change.
About Siege-gang, I know 5cmc w/ 20 land is pushing it, but that is what instigator is for. Also, vs Wrath or DoJ, it is quite feasible that the game will go beyond turn 6 vs. those decks, so worst case scenario, you hit land drop 5 on turn 6-7 and replenish the field.
I was also thinking classic Vial build, but meh. I use Vial in Folk and Not sure about it.
I am probably:
-4 cohort
-1 Main deck Magus
-1 MWM
-1 Wardriver
+3 Maniac
+3 Bushwhacker
+1 Grenade
Yeah, I played 5-6 Games online. I see your point about Maniac vs. Cohort, that is my first change.
About Siege-gang, I know 5cmc w/ 20 land is pushing it, but that is what instigator is for. Also, vs Wrath or DoJ, it is quite feasible that the game will go beyond turn 6 vs. those decks, so worst case scenario, you hit land drop 5 on turn 6-7 and replenish the field.
I was also thinking classic Vial build, but meh. I use Vial in Folk and Not sure about it.
I am probably:
-4 cohort
-1 Main deck Magus
-1 MWM
-1 Wardriver
+3 Maniac
+3 Bushwhacker
+1 Grenade
Those changes seem good, although war marshal has always been so good for me that I keep him at 4. He has synergy as a chump blocker, field presence, with goblin grenade, and with bushwhacker/chieftain haste so with your new addition of bushwhacker and a grenade he should get a little better. Vial is too slow for this kind of build, the legacy version takes advantage of it much better, and it is much more necessary in that setting regardless. My problem with siege commander and the reason I dropped my 2 copies very quickly in testing is because warren instigator is a lightning rod, and that leaves siege-gang sitting awkwardly in the hand for too many turns. If you want to take advantage of warren instigator i feel that the best way is to focus on taking advantage of the double strike damage and running 3-4 teetering peeks alongside him, that worked well for me till I decided he always got hit by removal and wardriver would spread my damage more.
The only questionable thing I'm finding, is the usefulness I find of Æther Vial. I pilot Merfolk too sometimes, and I dropped Vials for other 1 drops. I'm running into the same issues here. I'm thinking about dropping them from this build for more Goblins or 4 Thoughtseize / Bolts. 1mana discard hits removal and board wipe as well as combo pieces.
Instigator is decent even without his triggers, especially if Lord in Play.
Vials may be a better sideboard option in Modern. They could come in vs. Control/permission decks. Bring in Mindbreak Trap / Surgical extraction or Blood moon + King for disruption packages.
Something like that. It plays a RDW type of strategy, and has some groundgame to keep the deck going in the right direction. It could be bad, but never horrible. In the world of Soul Sisters and Martyr-Proc ... it might not hold up well. But against everything else (and I mean everything else) it probably has decent game.
Mind you, this is a mono-red budget minded list. You could probably easily crank up the power by splashing black for Dark Confidant. Splash white for Lightning Helix. Splash blue for Remand. I don't know exactly. But I do know this... it can pump out a lot of damage real quick. Just knowing you can nail someone from 9 to NOTHING out of the blue fairly consistently is pretty exciting.
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4 Contested War Zone
4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Signal Pest
4 Flayer Husk
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Goblin Guide
4 Goblin Wardriver
4 Shrapnel Blast
4 Goblin Grenade
2 Devastating Summons
Other cards you can try: Mox Opal, Chimeric Mass, Haze of Rage, Springleaf Drum, Galvanic Blast, Lightning Bolt, Darksteel Citadel, Spikeshot Elder, Tuktuk the Explorer, Perilous Myr.
If I would build a traditional Goblins list I would start with something like this:
4 Goblin Guide
4 Goblin Arsonist
4 Spikeshot Elder
4 Ember Hauler
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Goblin Wardriver
4 Goblin Chieftain
2 Warren Instigator
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Lightning Bolt
Or you could go the Aether Vial route. The "problem" with Goblins in Modern is that it isn't as fast and powerful as Zoo. People are loaded with responses to Zoo 'cause it is dominating the metagame, so all that hate can simply wipe away less powerful aggro decks like Goblins with ease.
This is the quote that defines goblins right there. I love goblins but in modern, they just can't cut it.
I have to agree with this. I tried playing the following build in a fairly large Modern tournament at Worlds:
4 Goblin Guide
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Tattermunge Maniac
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Goblin Wardriver
4 Mogg War Marshal
4 Goblin Chieftain
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Flame Javelin
Sorceries: 4
4 Goblin Grenade
Lands: 20
20 Mountain
4 Blood Moon
4 Relic of Progenitus
4 Smash to Smithereens
3 Stingscourger
The sideboard was a bit rushed.
Anyway, I went 2-4, which is pretty terrible. Two of my rounds were inherently terrible matchups, too.
Round 1, I faced a white-red deck filled with nothing but Pyroclasm effects and pro-red creatures. I actually almost won game 3, having gotten him down to 2 life and failing to topdeck a burn spell.
Round 3, I faced blue-white Timely Reinforcements.dec, which was quite an uphill battle. His sequence of plays in game 1 was:
Turn 3: Timely Reinforcements
Turn 5: Timely Reinforcements
Turn 6: Snapcaster Mage, flashback Timely Reinforcements
Turn 7: Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
On the bright side, I always won at least one game per round, which means the deck still has potential. It's just very dependent on draws.
4 Goblin Guide
4 Goblin Arsonist
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Warren instigator
4 Mogg War-Marshal
4 Goblin Chieftain
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Goblin Grenade
4 Searing Blaze
2 Brimstone Volley
4 Teetering peaks
4 Scalding Tarns
4 Arid Mesa
10 Mountains
This is my current goblin deck. Brimstone volley is a new addition, it tested well in the extended locals last week, beating cruel control and jund and other decks that were put together short notice to give me a 4-0 record. I had to replace the war marshals of course, but I think brimstone volley is promising, has synergy, and can probably help us close in on the turn 4-5 win that we aim to get. It has synergy with mogg war-marshal, goblin grenade, and mogg fanatic, as well as with the fact that this is a tribal creature deck so morbid is going to activate if the opponent has any hope of surviving the onslaught. I am considering dropping the warren instigators for either wardrivers or maniacs, and I am still of the opinion that arsonist is better than fanatic. I still need to test against a strong modern metagame, my locals is under-developed in modern because it is only 2 months older than innistrad, but our standard got competitive fast so now that everyone is focused on modern I expect the same.
I do love the little green guys, though, and I hope we get something good for them soon!
4 Goblin Guide
4 Goblin Cohort
4 Tattermunge Maniac
Other goblins (14)
4 Goblin Arsonist
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
3 Goblin Chieftain
3 Mogg War Marshal
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Goblin Grenade
4 Rift Bolt
2 Lava Spike
Land (20)
20 Mountain
4 Leyline of Punishment
4 Shattering Spree
4 Magus of the Moon
3 Phyrexian Revoker
Standard: UWR
Modern: RDW, Twin
Legacy: I am 3 Candelabra of Tawnos from being able to build almost any tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Here are the ones I care about right now:
-Aggro: UWR/RUB/WUB/RUG/UR Delver; Affinity; Burn
-Control: Stoneblade; UWr Miracles; UB Tezzeret
-Combo: Hive Mind; Combo Elves; Omni Tell; T.E.S.
Vintage: Grixis Painter
EDH: Rith, the Awakener
Depends, if the problem match up is that you are getting out aggro'd by zoo etc then run terminate, if control really takes off and there becomes a need to cheat your creatures into play through counter magic run aether vial. Vial gets bounced by cryptic command though and the permission in this format is kinda weak so terminate is probably best right now.
Pro-red creatures are still a problem, but I haven't seen a ton of them in my meta. SB'ing a few Dismembers is useful to get rid of them.
Other ideas: Shrine of Burning Rage might also help deal with pro-red creatures.
Actually, yes. This is what I am currently testing online:
note: no matchup analysis yet.
4 Warren Instigator
4 Goblin Wardriver
4 Mogg-War Marshal
3 Goblin King
3 Goblin Chieftain
1 Magus of the Moon
4 Goblin Guide
3 Goblin Cohort
3 Siege-gang Commander
4 Blood Moon
Sorcery
3 Goblin Grenade
Instant
4 Lightning Bolt
Land
4 Mutavault
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
10 Mountain
3 Dismember
3 Spellskite
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Pithing Needle
3 Shattering Spree
3 Surgical Extraction
Thank you mchief111, great sig
Lvl 37 Planeswalker
Current:
Legacy:
:symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | Spiral Tide | MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | Elf Combo
Vintage:
:symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
Modern:
:symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
Standard:
Wip
EDH:
:symb::symu::symw: Zur
I'm not a big fan of this build. 5 CMC spells are too much for a 20 land deck, grenade should be at 4, and tattermung maniac is probably better than cohort, I use arsonist/fanatic as my other 1 drop. Also it took me a minute to see what was missing, but goblin bushwhacker should be in any goblin deck, he is aggressive and great for a deck that tries to put a lot of creatures on the field or pumping warren instigator for people who like running him.
Yeah, I played 5-6 Games online. I see your point about Maniac vs. Cohort, that is my first change.
About Siege-gang, I know 5cmc w/ 20 land is pushing it, but that is what instigator is for. Also, vs Wrath or DoJ, it is quite feasible that the game will go beyond turn 6 vs. those decks, so worst case scenario, you hit land drop 5 on turn 6-7 and replenish the field.
I was also thinking classic Vial build, but meh. I use Vial in Folk and Not sure about it.
I am probably:
-4 cohort
-1 Main deck Magus
-1 MWM
-1 Wardriver
+3 Maniac
+3 Bushwhacker
+1 Grenade
Thank you mchief111, great sig
Lvl 37 Planeswalker
Current:
Legacy:
:symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | Spiral Tide | MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | Elf Combo
Vintage:
:symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
Modern:
:symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
Standard:
Wip
EDH:
:symb::symu::symw: Zur
Those changes seem good, although war marshal has always been so good for me that I keep him at 4. He has synergy as a chump blocker, field presence, with goblin grenade, and with bushwhacker/chieftain haste so with your new addition of bushwhacker and a grenade he should get a little better. Vial is too slow for this kind of build, the legacy version takes advantage of it much better, and it is much more necessary in that setting regardless. My problem with siege commander and the reason I dropped my 2 copies very quickly in testing is because warren instigator is a lightning rod, and that leaves siege-gang sitting awkwardly in the hand for too many turns. If you want to take advantage of warren instigator i feel that the best way is to focus on taking advantage of the double strike damage and running 3-4 teetering peeks alongside him, that worked well for me till I decided he always got hit by removal and wardriver would spread my damage more.
4 Teetering Peaks
4 Ember Hauler
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Guide
4 Goblin Wardriver
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Mogg War Marshal
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Searing Blaze
3 Dismember
4 Everlasting Torment
4 Smash to Smithereens
4 Torpor Orb
15 sideboard cards
I would love to know who he beat and lost to.
Interesting.
splash B shows some resiliency as well.
Tried this online, went 5-1 games in a practice.
The only questionable thing I'm finding, is the usefulness I find of Æther Vial. I pilot Merfolk too sometimes, and I dropped Vials for other 1 drops. I'm running into the same issues here. I'm thinking about dropping them from this build for more Goblins or 4 Thoughtseize / Bolts. 1mana discard hits removal and board wipe as well as combo pieces.
Instigator is decent even without his triggers, especially if Lord in Play.
Other Goodies are Stingscourger.
Brass Herald, I like, but its 6cmc.
Vials may be a better sideboard option in Modern. They could come in vs. Control/permission decks. Bring in Mindbreak Trap / Surgical extraction or Blood moon + King for disruption packages.
This build is more midrange.
3 Siege-Gang Commander
4 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Guide
3 Mogg Fanatic
3 Mogg War-marshal
2 Wort, Boggart Auntie
4 Goblin Wardriver
4 Warren Instigator
4 Æther Vial
Sorcery
2 Warren Weirding
4 Goblin Grenade
Instant
1 Dismember
Land
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Blood Crypt
4 Arid Mesa
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Mutavault
6 Mountain
Thank you mchief111, great sig
Lvl 37 Planeswalker
Current:
Legacy:
:symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | Spiral Tide | MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | Elf Combo
Vintage:
:symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
Modern:
:symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
Standard:
Wip
EDH:
:symb::symu::symw: Zur
Throw in Dark Confidant if you want card drawing. Blood Moon if you want to keep your opponent's honest.
My list would look something like:
18 Mountains
2 Keldon Megaliths
Goblins
4 Goblin Guide
4 Goblin Arsonist
4 Goblin Bushwacker
4 Mogg War Marshal
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Goblin Grenade
4 Flame Javelin
4 Magma Jet
3 Shard Volley
2 Arc Trail
3 Rift Bolt
3 Blood Moon
1 Magus of the Moon
4 Leyline of Punishment
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Torpor Orb
2 something else
Something like that. It plays a RDW type of strategy, and has some groundgame to keep the deck going in the right direction. It could be bad, but never horrible. In the world of Soul Sisters and Martyr-Proc ... it might not hold up well. But against everything else (and I mean everything else) it probably has decent game.
Mind you, this is a mono-red budget minded list. You could probably easily crank up the power by splashing black for Dark Confidant. Splash white for Lightning Helix. Splash blue for Remand. I don't know exactly. But I do know this... it can pump out a lot of damage real quick. Just knowing you can nail someone from 9 to NOTHING out of the blue fairly consistently is pretty exciting.