Hey everyone, this is my first post on the forums here, but I've been lurking for a while. I've been pretty excited for Modern since it was announced as a PT format, and I've been testing a wide variety of decks. Recently I attended a paper Modern tournament in my area (Baltimore metro) with a Jund midrange list with Goyfs, Fires combo, and sideboard Boom/Bust and I went 2-2 before dropping. I beat 2 Zoo players (what I expected the meta to be, as my deck was built to handle it) and lost horribly to 12 Post in various forms. I'm convinced 12 Post is the deck to play right now, the UG version particularly. Looking at that tournament, the only decks doing consistently well were Pyromancer's Ascension, Melira combo (seems like he got lucky, watched his opponents misplay 2/3 rounds) and two U/G 12 Post lists. They have efficient permission in Remand, Spell Snare, and Condescend, fast mana with the Post package, Ghost Quarter/Life from the Loam to fight other Post builds, and inevitability with a Gifts package for Slaver lock. Plus the standard Eldrazi/Primeval Titan win conditions. It is probably the best deck in the format.
But! I have never been one to play the "best deck" So I've been trying to brew lists that can fight both Zoo and 12 Post while having a good match against the field. I wanted to play a permission-style control deck, so I came up with this:
Any help would be appreciated! Here is a breakdown of some of the card choices: Mystical Teachings: The main power of the deck. I only splashed black very slightly through fetches just because this card is so good. It lets you tutor up all of the Silver-Bullet win conditions that hose a specific deck on a Scepter: Silence is the main one since Teferi+Silence Stick is pretty much a lock, Angel's Grace destroys others, Boomerang on a stick is awesome... Basically they're cards that are situationally good but not necessarily always wanted. The deck thankfully gets enough card advantage through the Stick that you can afford to draw one-ofs in the early game and just not use them until you need to. Teachings also finds counters when needed and in the long run can be flashed back to find others. And I shouldn't need to remind you how awesome it is with Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir.
Path to Exile I'm convinced this is the best removal spell in the format. Hits nearly everything, dodges Persist and grave triggers, beats indestructible, etc. On a Stick it absolutely demolishes Zoo. You Path every one of their beaters and just manually counter their Burn and Pridemages.
Remand/Rune Snag: Man, I miss Counterspell! Remand is good because on a stick, it's basically 2, T: Draw a card. Your opponent wastes their turn replaying the same spell that you'll probably just Rune Snag anyway. Rune Snag is in my opinion better than Mana Leak because this deck is the definition of long-game control. It's the closest thing we have to a 2cc hard counter in the format (believe me, I tested Deprive...) and its also the only thing that will counter big spells out of 12 Post reliably. They run four Primeval Titans, we have 4 Rune Snag
Muddle The Mixture: Actually pretty good, both as a spell and a tutor for Stick/Boomerang. Might want to find space for one or two more.
Elspeth, Knight-Errant/Sun Titan: Confused on the split. Might want 2 of either. Elspeth is card advantage, a blocker, a win condition, cheaper and thus easier to play with permission backup, amazing in lots of ways... Sun Titan recurs fetches/Ghost Quarter, beats harder, is tutorable with Teachings if Teferi is out, etc. I'm going to cut one for either a third Teferi or a second copy of the other... leaning towards cutting Elspeth. Baneslayer Angel maindeck is also an option.
Sideboard: Wall of Denial: I know this card is unorthodox, but I absolutely love it in any creature-based matchup. Nearly unkillable, giant body, flying... everything you want. Basically 3cc: remove your opponent's best creature for the rest of the game.
Baneslayer Angel: Similar idea. Might be worth it in the main. Evasive wincon that kills aggro if it sticks and sometimes just puts the game out of reach for any non-combo kill deck.
Mindbreak Trap/Gather Specimens: Tutorable with Teachings, good answer to 12 Post. If you can get it online Specimens also stops Living End. Might be better as Bribery but I like it being tutorable with Teachings. Open for suggestions here.
Shadow of Doubt: Randomly hoses some decks like Birthing Pod and makes a stick a Jayemdae Tome that doesn't suck. Cool plays include responding to fetchlands for a cantripping Sinkhole, making your Ghost Quarters into Wastelands, and effectively nullifying your opponents Eye of Ugin. Might deserve a spot main, cycles at worst!
Trickbind: Kind of awesome. It stops Annihilator and Eldrazi cast triggers, can counter Melira combo for a turn, can nuke a Mindslaver or even Expedition Map, and getting Trickbind on a Stick is your best answer to Slaver lock.
So let me know what you think! Please refrain from the typical "Control won't work in an unknown meta," because the meta is basically known right now since the online dailies. 12 Post, Zoo, Red, various Midrange, Ascension, Melira combo, and Affinity. If I can get game against those decks I am more than happy losing to a few out-of-left-field decks.
Oh, I thought he was talking about playing a spell that is countering a spell with counters on it as it comes into play, but I see you guys were just discussing whether he was flashing a creature with flash in order to flash a flashback or just flashing a creature with flash but not needing flash in order to flashback a spell without flash.
You have no win con other than the scepter. You can't rely on just one card to stick. Try some academy or buried ruins, but even then extirpate ruins your entire deck.
Tapping 5 mana to deal 4 damage is dangerous for a draw-go deck. Use a cheaper manland like mutavault.
Teferi is a bad beater and does very little to non permission decks by himself.
Sun Titan actually seems pretty good after Teferi is in play. Flashable, tutorable, recurrs scepter, beats nicely.
Elspeth should be swapped with another critter so it can get flash. Fits draw-go better cause you rarely want to tap 4 mana on your turn. Something like Sphinx of Jwar Isle is good since it is vulnerable only to board wipes, which you can easily negate with your permission.
How is Sun Titan, Teferi, Elspeth, or Celestial Colonnade not a win condition? This is a draw-go style control deck. Academy ruins does deserve a spot though, should be in the list.
Changed manabase to accomodate Creeping Tar Pit. Unblockable is really pretty good, 3 power is strong, etc. Also upped the basic land count to dodge Blood Moon effects. Added one Baneslayer Angel to the main.
What do you guys think about Intervention Pact/Pact of Negation maindeck? Both are decent on a stick in the late game and can be tutored for with Teachings... better than Silence/Angel's Grace? At least the Pacts are good on their own...
Derp. So, Pacts are pretty good when they're tutorable and able to be put on a stick... so why not just run Hive Mind as a late-game win con? Or is Knowledge Pool lock with Teferi just as good?
Oh, I thought he was talking about playing a spell that is countering a spell with counters on it as it comes into play, but I see you guys were just discussing whether he was flashing a creature with flash in order to flash a flashback or just flashing a creature with flash but not needing flash in order to flashback a spell without flash.
This deck would be so much better if cunning wish was in the format. also since there's no fact or fiction you might want to consider throwing in gifts ungiven or maybe make room for grand abolisher Also meddling mage was used in the old scepter chant decks as well. Just a little food for thought.
But! I have never been one to play the "best deck" So I've been trying to brew lists that can fight both Zoo and 12 Post while having a good match against the field. I wanted to play a permission-style control deck, so I came up with this:
4 Hallowed Fountain
1 Watery Grave
1 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
2 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Island
2 Plains
2 Swamp
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Academy Ruins
Spells
4 Preordain
4 Remand
4 Rune Snag
4 Path to Exile
2 Wrath of God
4 Isochron Scepter
2 Muddle the Mixture
3 Mystical Teachings
1 Pact of Negation
1 Pollen Lullaby
2 Silence
Creatures
2 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Sun Titan
4 Wall of Denial
1 Baneslayer Angel
2 Wrath of God
1 Gather Specimens
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Pact of Negation
1 Intervention Pact
1 Shadow of Doubt
1 Into the Roil
1 Trickbind
1 Angel's Grace
Any help would be appreciated! Here is a breakdown of some of the card choices:
Mystical Teachings: The main power of the deck. I only splashed black very slightly through fetches just because this card is so good. It lets you tutor up all of the Silver-Bullet win conditions that hose a specific deck on a Scepter: Silence is the main one since Teferi+Silence Stick is pretty much a lock, Angel's Grace destroys others, Boomerang on a stick is awesome... Basically they're cards that are situationally good but not necessarily always wanted. The deck thankfully gets enough card advantage through the Stick that you can afford to draw one-ofs in the early game and just not use them until you need to. Teachings also finds counters when needed and in the long run can be flashed back to find others. And I shouldn't need to remind you how awesome it is with Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir.
Path to Exile I'm convinced this is the best removal spell in the format. Hits nearly everything, dodges Persist and grave triggers, beats indestructible, etc. On a Stick it absolutely demolishes Zoo. You Path every one of their beaters and just manually counter their Burn and Pridemages.
Remand/Rune Snag: Man, I miss Counterspell! Remand is good because on a stick, it's basically 2, T: Draw a card. Your opponent wastes their turn replaying the same spell that you'll probably just Rune Snag anyway. Rune Snag is in my opinion better than Mana Leak because this deck is the definition of long-game control. It's the closest thing we have to a 2cc hard counter in the format (believe me, I tested Deprive...) and its also the only thing that will counter big spells out of 12 Post reliably. They run four Primeval Titans, we have 4 Rune Snag
Muddle The Mixture: Actually pretty good, both as a spell and a tutor for Stick/Boomerang. Might want to find space for one or two more.
Elspeth, Knight-Errant/Sun Titan: Confused on the split. Might want 2 of either. Elspeth is card advantage, a blocker, a win condition, cheaper and thus easier to play with permission backup, amazing in lots of ways... Sun Titan recurs fetches/Ghost Quarter, beats harder, is tutorable with Teachings if Teferi is out, etc. I'm going to cut one for either a third Teferi or a second copy of the other... leaning towards cutting Elspeth. Baneslayer Angel maindeck is also an option.
Sideboard:
Wall of Denial: I know this card is unorthodox, but I absolutely love it in any creature-based matchup. Nearly unkillable, giant body, flying... everything you want. Basically 3cc: remove your opponent's best creature for the rest of the game.
Baneslayer Angel: Similar idea. Might be worth it in the main. Evasive wincon that kills aggro if it sticks and sometimes just puts the game out of reach for any non-combo kill deck.
Mindbreak Trap/Gather Specimens: Tutorable with Teachings, good answer to 12 Post. If you can get it online Specimens also stops Living End. Might be better as Bribery but I like it being tutorable with Teachings. Open for suggestions here.
Shadow of Doubt: Randomly hoses some decks like Birthing Pod and makes a stick a Jayemdae Tome that doesn't suck. Cool plays include responding to fetchlands for a cantripping Sinkhole, making your Ghost Quarters into Wastelands, and effectively nullifying your opponents Eye of Ugin. Might deserve a spot main, cycles at worst!
Trickbind: Kind of awesome. It stops Annihilator and Eldrazi cast triggers, can counter Melira combo for a turn, can nuke a Mindslaver or even Expedition Map, and getting Trickbind on a Stick is your best answer to Slaver lock.
So let me know what you think! Please refrain from the typical "Control won't work in an unknown meta," because the meta is basically known right now since the online dailies. 12 Post, Zoo, Red, various Midrange, Ascension, Melira combo, and Affinity. If I can get game against those decks I am more than happy losing to a few out-of-left-field decks.
-regarding Snapcaster Mage.
Tapping 5 mana to deal 4 damage is dangerous for a draw-go deck. Use a cheaper manland like mutavault.
Teferi is a bad beater and does very little to non permission decks by himself.
Sun Titan actually seems pretty good after Teferi is in play. Flashable, tutorable, recurrs scepter, beats nicely.
Elspeth should be swapped with another critter so it can get flash. Fits draw-go better cause you rarely want to tap 4 mana on your turn. Something like Sphinx of Jwar Isle is good since it is vulnerable only to board wipes, which you can easily negate with your permission.
Changed manabase to accomodate Creeping Tar Pit. Unblockable is really pretty good, 3 power is strong, etc. Also upped the basic land count to dodge Blood Moon effects. Added one Baneslayer Angel to the main.
What do you guys think about Intervention Pact/Pact of Negation maindeck? Both are decent on a stick in the late game and can be tutored for with Teachings... better than Silence/Angel's Grace? At least the Pacts are good on their own...
Derp. So, Pacts are pretty good when they're tutorable and able to be put on a stick... so why not just run Hive Mind as a late-game win con? Or is Knowledge Pool lock with Teferi just as good?
-regarding Snapcaster Mage.