Simple idea, get out a lynx or crab tutor up or raw dog a fast bond, then either orobo or bounce land to continously bounce. In order to mill, or smash your opponent to death. Nomrally kills turn 2 but turn 1 is possible with fast bond into crab plus a bounce land. Normal blue counter package to protect combo.
Thoughts on if the deck is good enough to go competitive or how to improve greatly appreciated!
Have you test played this? There are 13 Blue cards including the FoW. That doesnot work. You need more than 16 for FoW to have any reasonable chance of being effective. If you do not 1 shot mill your opponent everytime you will almost certainly be winning them the game with the mill. There are plenty of combos with fastbond that are a lot easier to set up.
Second, I've been working on a Landfall Vintage deck myself and you're list is okay but needs more work to be consistent. You said this deck can generate turn 1/turn 2 kills, have you tested this deck?
Steppe Lynx is great and I believe it definitely should be in this Landfall deck along with Hedron Crab to mill as an alternate win condition.
Then obviously this deck needs Fastbond and probably Enlightened Tutor. If you go with Enlightened Tutor, you might as well throw in Crucible of Worlds as well to use disposed fetch lands from the graveyards.
This is the list I think would be more competitive, IMHO.
This isn't a final shell by any means but I believe it's a good start. If you want run a good counter suite and use Force of Will, you need to use more blue cards to pitch to Force.
I would like to see this deck take off so let's make it happen.
I am not crazy about Steppe Lynx as secondary kill condition, it seems like it's just taking up deck slots. If you add Zuran Orb you can essentially generate infinite mana and infinite life - while your Crabs can mill someone out on the spot. You could just as well run a Windrider Eel that could kill infinitely large and could pitch to FoW. The Zorb is cheaper and easier to find then the Gladehart, but is very vulnerable to Null Rod.
I am not crazy about the Pierces as you don't have any real mana denial going on to supplement them, but time will tell if they are competitive in vintage.
I might go something like this
-4 Steppe Lynx
-1 Gladehart
+1 Windrider Eel (this card is not good but does the same thing as Lynx really - + it does have evasion - adding it mostly for the color, thus reducing your reliance on white)
+1 Tinker
+1 Sol Ring
+1 Zuran Orb
+1 Yawgmoth's Will
There is an interesting discussion on a deck like this in this forum that is still very recent
It started out using Fastbond/Zorb/Crucible combo - with Bloodghasts for Card draw and eventual suggestions led to the possible inclusion of the Crab, with Oboro for infinite millage - the versions that added the Crab dropped Ghast. But Oboro stayed in with Fastbond for it's pure power.
First of sorry for not using deck tabs, new to the forums, I did try to read the rules but it just led me to a blank page.
Turn 2 is quite easy have yet to do turn 1, having not really played vintage in a while, what I went for was just creating as fast and consistant a version of the deck as possible. Not really knowing the meagame yet.
Turn 2 kill is easy, hardest thing is getting the fastbond, but i have 11 bounce lands and 8 creatures, with 5 tutors that work for turn 2 kill plus the bond itself.
I think you really want atleast 4 rav bounce lands along with the orobos as it makes the deck alot more consistant and faster. I opted for 7 in my build as I find with combo decks its best just to start of with a version that will regulary do what you want it to do fast and evolve it from there.
I really like the idea of zuran orb and crucible seems a definate improvement over gladeheart.
Im running spell pierce as Im playing the deck to win asap ideally turn 2, but am open to better suggestions.
The life loss from FOW is actually a problem if your going for the second turn kill, maybe im better running 4 pacts and 2 fows?
Also for Fow there is 3 daze, 3 spell pierce, 1 mystical tutor, ancestral recall, 3 other fow, 3-4 hedron crab, depending on what win your going for plus 2 pact.
If you have the last post in a thread and want to add to it, please use the edit button instead of double posting.--Binary
I don't know that the gladeheart is necessarily a bad thing here. it combines with fastbond+bounceland as a 3 card infinite life combo, as it's otherwise 4 cards with the other two. this said, crucible can at least be used in other capacities, so there's merit there, too.
yeah - obviously I disagree with you, John. Spam Warning!.....Amazing - even in a forum where posts don't count, there's spam. That proves that getting rid of the post-count won't help getting rid of spam! Thans for this excellent example! - Craven
4 hedron crab
1 fastbond
4 enlightened tutor
3 daze
1 mystical tutor
1 ancentral recall
3 spell pierce
4 force of will
1 eternal witness
2 pact of negation
1 wordly tutor
1 grazing gladeheart
1 demonic tutor
1 vamperic tutor
4 selensya sanctury
2 azorius chancery
4 orobo place in the clouds
1 golgari rotfarm
1 tundra
4 savanah
3 tropical island
1 underground sea
1 scrubland
1 bayou
4 misty rainforest
2 windswept heath
Simple idea, get out a lynx or crab tutor up or raw dog a fast bond, then either orobo or bounce land to continously bounce. In order to mill, or smash your opponent to death. Nomrally kills turn 2 but turn 1 is possible with fast bond into crab plus a bounce land. Normal blue counter package to protect combo.
Thoughts on if the deck is good enough to go competitive or how to improve greatly appreciated!
PTQ Top 8: 11/21/2009 Zendikar Sealed 4th
Second, I've been working on a Landfall Vintage deck myself and you're list is okay but needs more work to be consistent. You said this deck can generate turn 1/turn 2 kills, have you tested this deck?
Steppe Lynx is great and I believe it definitely should be in this Landfall deck along with Hedron Crab to mill as an alternate win condition.
Then obviously this deck needs Fastbond and probably Enlightened Tutor. If you go with Enlightened Tutor, you might as well throw in Crucible of Worlds as well to use disposed fetch lands from the graveyards.
This is the list I think would be more competitive, IMHO.
4x Hedron Crab
4x Steppe Lynx
1x Grazing Gladehart
Tutors:
4x Enlightened Tutor
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Demonic Tutor
Draw Spells:
1x Gifts Ungiven
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Brainstorm
1x Ponder
4x Force of Will
4x Spell Pierce
Enchantment:
1x Fastbond
Artifacts:
2x Crucible of Worlds
1x Memory Jar
1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Emerald
Lands:
4x Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
3x Polluted Delta
3x Misty Rainforest
2x Verdant Catacombs
1x Flooded Strand
3x Tropical Island
2x Underground Sea
1x Tundra
1x Savannah
2x Islands
2x Swamps
1x Plains
This isn't a final shell by any means but I believe it's a good start. If you want run a good counter suite and use Force of Will, you need to use more blue cards to pitch to Force.
I would like to see this deck take off so let's make it happen.
Once your in Black it's a shame not to run Yawgmoth's Will.
I am not crazy about the Pierces as you don't have any real mana denial going on to supplement them, but time will tell if they are competitive in vintage.
I might go something like this
-4 Steppe Lynx
-1 Gladehart
+1 Windrider Eel (this card is not good but does the same thing as Lynx really - + it does have evasion - adding it mostly for the color, thus reducing your reliance on white)
+1 Tinker
+1 Sol Ring
+1 Zuran Orb
+1 Yawgmoth's Will
There is an interesting discussion on a deck like this in this forum that is still very recent
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=195911
It started out using Fastbond/Zorb/Crucible combo - with Bloodghasts for Card draw and eventual suggestions led to the possible inclusion of the Crab, with Oboro for infinite millage - the versions that added the Crab dropped Ghast. But Oboro stayed in with Fastbond for it's pure power.
My Trade Thread
Turn 2 is quite easy have yet to do turn 1, having not really played vintage in a while, what I went for was just creating as fast and consistant a version of the deck as possible. Not really knowing the meagame yet.
Turn 2 kill is easy, hardest thing is getting the fastbond, but i have 11 bounce lands and 8 creatures, with 5 tutors that work for turn 2 kill plus the bond itself.
I think you really want atleast 4 rav bounce lands along with the orobos as it makes the deck alot more consistant and faster. I opted for 7 in my build as I find with combo decks its best just to start of with a version that will regulary do what you want it to do fast and evolve it from there.
I really like the idea of zuran orb and crucible seems a definate improvement over gladeheart.
Im running spell pierce as Im playing the deck to win asap ideally turn 2, but am open to better suggestions.
The life loss from FOW is actually a problem if your going for the second turn kill, maybe im better running 4 pacts and 2 fows?
Also for Fow there is 3 daze, 3 spell pierce, 1 mystical tutor, ancestral recall, 3 other fow, 3-4 hedron crab, depending on what win your going for plus 2 pact.
If you have the last post in a thread and want to add to it, please use the edit button instead of double posting.--Binary
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Interesting side note that I wasn't sure on my post 3 years ago if Spell Pierce would be relevant - the answer is currently - Yes.
Another point is that Sol Ring should be in initial list, somewhere.
Final point/note - Flusterstorm is an option now for a counter, that wasn't available back then.
Not sure if any of this is relevant, as this deck is certainly speculative in the current vintage environment.