Hello, everyone.
I don't have a high post count as I tend to lurk a lot, but something happened to me recently that prompted me to start this thread.
I want to write about my experience with Green Lake Games.
I pre-ordered some cards from Magic Origins from Green Lake Games on eBay, under their username "bgl_games." I placed two orders, one in June and one in July.
When Magic Origins was released, I received "tracking numbers" for my packages from Green Lake Games. I waited a couple of weeks for the packages to arrive, and when they didn't, I checked out the "tracking numbers."
These tracking numbers were basically just packaging slips that had been created. The USPS website even stated that they were no indication that the packages had been sent, nor were they indicative of the sending date. Basically, they meant nothing. You can create these numbers without actually sending any packages, which is what Green Lake Games did. There was no information beyond that.
I messaged Green Lake Games to inquire, and received a message saying they were busy and would get back to me the following week. Unsurprisingly, they didn't.
I messaged a further three times and received no replies, so I tried emailing them through their company website, and on Facebook. There were no replies. In the final message I stated that my patience was wearing thin and that I would take action if I didn't hear back from them.
There was no reply.
Finally, I wrote a negative review on eBay for the one transaction I could still access (the first transaction was made too long ago). I also tried applying for a refund, but was told by eBay that too much time has elapsed since the purchase. I wrote a longer message to eBay about this, and have yet to hear back from them.
I wrote a negative review on the Green Lake games Facebook page, and when I tried to make a wall post, I discovered that they had blocked my Facebook account. There were still no messages.
Now, to me it seems that they deliberately exploited the "pre-order" time and the "tracking number" system to manipulate people into waiting longer than the allotted time in which buyers can request a refund from eBay.
Their eBay account has since ceased doing business (there are no items listed). There are HUNDREDS of pieces of negative feedback that have been posted in the past couple of months. This means that they scammed hundreds of people in the same way.
I started looking into it, and found some Reddit threads in which people have had similar experiences.
I'll sum up a bit of the story here.
Green Lake Games (the storefront, Amazon, and TCGPlayer.com name) is known as Bucephalus Games (the company and TCGPlayer.com name) and is also known as bgl_games (on Ebay, probably stands for Bucephalus Games Limited or LLC).
They had two storefronts on TCGPlayer.com before both store fronts were closed (the Reddit user whose post I'm referencing suggests they were kicked off TCGPlayer, presumably for failing to send out cards after they sold them).
There are a number of other threads about their terrible business practices, not to mention the negative reviews on Yelp, Foursquare, and their Facebook page. It's also worth noting that the vast majority of users who posted negative reviews on eBay stopped there. If they had posted reviews anywhere else, Yelp, Foursquare, and the Green Lake Games Facebook page would all have hundreds of negative reviews from people who bought cards only to have nothing show up, and no communication from Green Lake Games.
I'm creating this thread for a couple of reasons:
First, to let people know to avoid Green Lake Games at all costs.
Second, to allow any readers who have had similar experiences a place to post and encourage them to share their story here.
I encourage anyone reading to look into Green Lake Games and the Reddit threads.
Hopefully as a community, we can prevent Green Lake Games from scamming any more people.
I read through your post and realized that Bucephalus Games sounded familiar. I went back through my messages on TCGPlayer and found that a year ago, I had an issue where I did not get sent 4 Carnival of Souls. I have made two orders through them and this was the only thing missing.
However, as I went back through my orders, I realized that the never sent these to me and I never got a rfund for them either. I think I ended up forgetting about them because I ended up getting them from a different seller. I actually didn't realize I never got a refund until now. I had given them almost 2 months to fix the issue with the missing cards, but nothing ever happened.
Luckily for me, the cost was only about $.70 total so I didn't lose a whole lot, but I just wanted to share my story regarding a poor experience with them as well.
Wow that's super weird. Green Lake Games is actually one of my LGSs -- in fact I frequently play modern there on sunday! They don't seem like the type to scam, their prices are pretty high but they also give generous amounts of store credit for winning so I'm fine with that.
Coincidentaly, I too had a negative experience with these guys a couple months ago. They only sent 1/4 of my order. After a back and forth with them, I filed a claim with eBay and they responded by claiming they sent my order. After eBay sided with me, they sent some more of my order, but it was like 1/8 of the remaining portion.
Needless to say, I ended up continuing my claim, and after 8 weeks of hassle I received a proportionate amount back through a refund.
I'm not sure these guys are scammers, I believe they are simply poor at doing business. Unfortunately, this ineptitude is often perceived by patrons as fraudulent.
Wow that's super weird. Green Lake Games is actually one of my LGSs -- in fact I frequently play modern there on sunday! They don't seem like the type to scam, their prices are pretty high but they also give generous amounts of store credit for winning so I'm fine with that.
They may not seem like the type to scam, but they most definitely are. I can't speak for their physical store, but I recommend people stay away from them online at all costs. Look into it for yourself and check out some of their recent feedback / reviews.
Notice how many negative reviews they have especially recently within the past 30 days. Most MTG vendors only have less than 5% negative reviews across all time frames but GLG has a whopping 38% negative reviews within the past 30 days alone. Do not buy from these guys, they will just waste your time. I'm surprised Amazon hasn't clamped down on them yet.
I had a similar experience. I ordered a bunch of Origins foils from them on eBay (all lower-ticket stuff - $18 total), got shipping notices, and the items never arrived. I emailed them and was told that they would re-ship. Still no cards. I opened claims and got my money back.
Thanks, Flahertongs, for putting this together.
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"bgl_games" sounded familiar, so I went back through my eBay history -- I pre-ordered playsets of Sword of the Animist and Hallowed Moonlight(best offer accepted for both items, so I didn't pay an exorbitant amount), which I received very quickly with no issues. So it seems I had a positive experience, at least.
I'm only speculating, but it looks like most of the negative feedback involved the failure to deliver mythics and/or foils, so perhaps it's a case of not opening up enough product to fill the preorders? Sending fake tracking/shipping notifications is shady, but I'll second the above that they just appear to be (very) poor at doing business. With that much negative feedback, I'm sure they'll be pulled from eBay relatively soon.
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I don't have a high post count as I tend to lurk a lot, but something happened to me recently that prompted me to start this thread.
I want to write about my experience with Green Lake Games.
I pre-ordered some cards from Magic Origins from Green Lake Games on eBay, under their username "bgl_games." I placed two orders, one in June and one in July.
When Magic Origins was released, I received "tracking numbers" for my packages from Green Lake Games. I waited a couple of weeks for the packages to arrive, and when they didn't, I checked out the "tracking numbers."
These tracking numbers were basically just packaging slips that had been created. The USPS website even stated that they were no indication that the packages had been sent, nor were they indicative of the sending date. Basically, they meant nothing. You can create these numbers without actually sending any packages, which is what Green Lake Games did. There was no information beyond that.
I messaged Green Lake Games to inquire, and received a message saying they were busy and would get back to me the following week. Unsurprisingly, they didn't.
I messaged a further three times and received no replies, so I tried emailing them through their company website, and on Facebook. There were no replies. In the final message I stated that my patience was wearing thin and that I would take action if I didn't hear back from them.
There was no reply.
Finally, I wrote a negative review on eBay for the one transaction I could still access (the first transaction was made too long ago). I also tried applying for a refund, but was told by eBay that too much time has elapsed since the purchase. I wrote a longer message to eBay about this, and have yet to hear back from them.
I wrote a negative review on the Green Lake games Facebook page, and when I tried to make a wall post, I discovered that they had blocked my Facebook account. There were still no messages.
Now, to me it seems that they deliberately exploited the "pre-order" time and the "tracking number" system to manipulate people into waiting longer than the allotted time in which buyers can request a refund from eBay.
Their eBay account has since ceased doing business (there are no items listed). There are HUNDREDS of pieces of negative feedback that have been posted in the past couple of months. This means that they scammed hundreds of people in the same way.
I started looking into it, and found some Reddit threads in which people have had similar experiences.
I'll sum up a bit of the story here.
Green Lake Games (the storefront, Amazon, and TCGPlayer.com name) is known as Bucephalus Games (the company and TCGPlayer.com name) and is also known as bgl_games (on Ebay, probably stands for Bucephalus Games Limited or LLC).
They had two storefronts on TCGPlayer.com before both store fronts were closed (the Reddit user whose post I'm referencing suggests they were kicked off TCGPlayer, presumably for failing to send out cards after they sold them).
You can see these store fronts here: (as Green Lake Games, kicked off in December 2012):
http://store.tcgplayer.com/sellerfeedback/745290da
and here (as Bucephalus Games, kicked off in May 2014):
http://store.tcgplayer.com/sellerfeedback/035a5d11
Their now-dead Ebay feedback area is here (as BGL_Games, the storefront has had all items removed from it recently):
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=bgl_games&ftab=AllFeedback&myworld=true&rt=nc
Look at the overwhelming amount of negative feedback from buyers in recent months.
You can see their Amazon feedback here:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aag/main?ie=UTF8&asin=&isAmazonFulfilled=&isCBA=&marketplaceID=ATVPDKIKX0DER&orderID=&protocol=current&seller=A1DPE16SEWBL1W&sshmPath=
According to Amazon, their feedback within the past 30 days has been 38% negative, 8% neutral, and only 54% positive. Again, there is an overwhelming amount of negative feedback.
There are a number of other threads about their terrible business practices, not to mention the negative reviews on Yelp, Foursquare, and their Facebook page. It's also worth noting that the vast majority of users who posted negative reviews on eBay stopped there. If they had posted reviews anywhere else, Yelp, Foursquare, and the Green Lake Games Facebook page would all have hundreds of negative reviews from people who bought cards only to have nothing show up, and no communication from Green Lake Games.
I'm creating this thread for a couple of reasons:
First, to let people know to avoid Green Lake Games at all costs.
Second, to allow any readers who have had similar experiences a place to post and encourage them to share their story here.
I encourage anyone reading to look into Green Lake Games and the Reddit threads.
Hopefully as a community, we can prevent Green Lake Games from scamming any more people.
However, as I went back through my orders, I realized that the never sent these to me and I never got a rfund for them either. I think I ended up forgetting about them because I ended up getting them from a different seller. I actually didn't realize I never got a refund until now. I had given them almost 2 months to fix the issue with the missing cards, but nothing ever happened.
Luckily for me, the cost was only about $.70 total so I didn't lose a whole lot, but I just wanted to share my story regarding a poor experience with them as well.
Modern
UBR Grixis Control
U Merfolk
Pauper
U Mono U Delver
Ancestral Visions is freed
Needless to say, I ended up continuing my claim, and after 8 weeks of hassle I received a proportionate amount back through a refund.
I'm not sure these guys are scammers, I believe they are simply poor at doing business. Unfortunately, this ineptitude is often perceived by patrons as fraudulent.
They may not seem like the type to scam, but they most definitely are. I can't speak for their physical store, but I recommend people stay away from them online at all costs. Look into it for yourself and check out some of their recent feedback / reviews.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aag/main?ie=UTF8&asin=&seller=A1DPE16SEWBL1W
Notice how many negative reviews they have especially recently within the past 30 days. Most MTG vendors only have less than 5% negative reviews across all time frames but GLG has a whopping 38% negative reviews within the past 30 days alone. Do not buy from these guys, they will just waste your time. I'm surprised Amazon hasn't clamped down on them yet.
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My 540 Card Cube (WIP)
Thanks, Flahertongs, for putting this together.
I'm only speculating, but it looks like most of the negative feedback involved the failure to deliver mythics and/or foils, so perhaps it's a case of not opening up enough product to fill the preorders? Sending fake tracking/shipping notifications is shady, but I'll second the above that they just appear to be (very) poor at doing business. With that much negative feedback, I'm sure they'll be pulled from eBay relatively soon.