I am interested in making a business venture in the somewhat near future. Selling singles, sets and playsets. (Full sets and Commons and Uncommons) Similar to Kid Icarus of ebay. I would see about getting a business license for my state and purchasing directly from WoTC. (If possible)(Ok found out it's not. lol)
I am in the staring into my research phase now. I know I will need to purchase boxes by the case, but how many cases would I need to purchase for this to become profitable. I know there are other nerds out there with more data than I do. One of the things I need to know are Statically how many cases would I need to purchase to have foil/non-foil playset of Mythics, Rares, Uncommons, and commons.
If this is the wrong section I am sorry, Mods please move it.
I am interested in making a business venture in the somewhat near future. Selling singles, sets and playsets. (Full sets and Commons and Uncommons) Similar to Kid Icarus of ebay. I would see about getting a business license for my state and purchasing directly from WoTC. (If possible)
I am in the staring into my research phase now. I know I will need to purchase boxes by the case, but how many cases would I need to purchase for this to become profitable. I know there are other nerds out there with more data than I do. One of the things I need to know are Statically how many cases would I need to purchase to have foil/non-foil playset of Mythics, Rares, Uncommons, and commons.
If this is the wrong section I am sorry, Mods please move it.
Buying direct from wizards is only possible if you own a brick and mortar store to my knowledge. Simple ebay sellers do not have the option to purchase directly. Something to keep in mind.
I have an ebay store and I generally forgo selling boxes or complete sets. I get 99% of my inventory from buying collections via craiglist and other online outlets. I've found some good deals on boxes and such, but primarily I sell singles and play sets. Even if you have a B&M store, it's hard to sell boxes online for a profit. Singles is where all the money is at.
I have an ebay store and I generally forgo selling boxes or complete sets. I get 99% of my inventory from buying collections via craiglist and other online outlets. I've found some good deals on boxes and such, but primarily I sell singles and play sets. Even if you have a B&M store, it's hard to sell boxes online for a profit. Singles is where all the money is at.
Thanks for the advice. I am not looking to sell boxes tho. I was thinking of purchasing cards by the case(opening them) and using those to sell singletons or play sets. Any thoughts on that?
If you are within the borders of the USA you'll have massive benefits over anyone else - not just the cheaper and more abundant product, but the services of the USPS, which is very cheap compared to the mail service of other Western nations like Canada.
Another thing that will help you is understanding the game itself, perfectly. The rules, the strategies, the metagame.
You'll also need connections. Lots of them. Local and online. And you'll need to research your competition, both on eBay, other online sources, and real life businesses as well.
And a great (cheap and easy) source of local booster boxes, that doesn't have issues with supply (even when Wizards drops the ball with their end of things).
And most importantly, LOTS of money to begin with. You'll need a good 10 grand, or at least that much in inventory, to really get off the ground. Big stores like the one you mentioned probably started with a lot more than that.
And expect to fail. A good 95% who set out, do.
Good luck
Thanks for the advice. I am not looking to sell boxes tho. I was thinking of purchasing cards by the case(opening them) and using those to sell singletons or play sets. Any thoughts on that?
If you have a way to get cases at wholesale prices it might work, but from what I understand you need a B&M location to get cases wholesale. I have a friend who gets boxes at whole sale prices, but even then it is rarely worth it to crack cases for singles outside of the first couple of weeks of each release. One strategy that some ebay vendors use is redeeming full sets on MTGO and then selling those cards as singles. I have no idea exactly how this works, but I think the margins are pretty low and you have do insane volume to make it worthwhile. If you want to make money selling singles, buy cards and buylist or better prices and sell them for as close to retail as you can. I have had success doing this via craigslist and now I even have my own buylist so people in my community come to me when they have cards to sell because it is easier than shipping them to an online vendor.
Thanks for the advice. I am not looking to sell boxes tho. I was thinking of purchasing cards by the case(opening them) and using those to sell singletons or play sets. Any thoughts on that?
This is the simple calculation for how much product you need to open.
(2x Rares + Mythics)/36 = 1 set.
Ebay usually revolves around playsets of 4 so multiply the above number by 4.
If you are only doing 1 playset multiply by 1.2 (20% extra). If you are doing at least 2 playsets an extra 10% product should get you where you want.
Figure out how to sell commons and uncommons profitably. You'll have a LOT of them. Warning, they are labor intensive.
Moving Commander cards is lucrative if you take the time to set up a store because those people want several singles and will pay about the same for a single as for a playset of other cards. They just like to get several single cards at a time to save on shipping.
To be completely honest with you, buying at retail (even bulk retail), You just aren't going to have the margins to compete. With the way chase rares are today, All it takes is 1-2 bad cases and you are taking a big loss. It was a lot easier when the value was spread out in the set.
Furthermore without access to a distributor it is VERY hard to ensure you get enough cases to even fill your orders. I presold Worldwake and had to end up getting cases from SCG because other vendors sold me product they couldn't actually deliver.
With all that said, it might be an ok hobby to get started, while you learn the ropes, but don't expect to make enough to pay your bills.
If you have a store that will sponsor you (IE they don't want to run a singles business but they will let you manage theirs like Jeff used to) you'll be better off.
Guys like Kid Icarus get the vast majority of their post redemption cards from MTGO sets and selling the singles, but now WotC has upped the redemption fee so I don't even know if that is viable for someone who isn't buying directly from bot chains like he does.
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Thanks for the advice. I am not looking to sell boxes tho. I was thinking of purchasing cards by the case(opening them) and using those to sell singletons or play sets. Any thoughts on that?
Distributors can sell to anyone they want to, as long as they aren`t violating an agreement with WoTC, such as selling to international customers. Their requirements may very so check out many sources.
For example in Canada years ago, you could have an account with Andromeda, a comic distributor as long as you spent $300 a month wholesale. I also knew a card store where you could buy boxes for the same price as buying from a distributor plus GST. GST is a tax we have to pay in Canada even at the wholesale level.
I would really crunch some numbers before investing too much into this venture as Ebay fees are quite high. Might not be that profitable after the pre-sale stage.
To tired to type any more. Good luck with your venture.
I am interested in making a business venture in the somewhat near future. Selling singles, sets and playsets. (Full sets and Commons and Uncommons) Similar to Kid Icarus of ebay. I would see about getting a business license for my state and purchasing directly from WoTC. (If possible)(Ok found out it's not. lol)
I am in the staring into my research phase now. I know I will need to purchase boxes by the case, but how many cases would I need to purchase for this to become profitable. I know there are other nerds out there with more data than I do. One of the things I need to know are Statically how many cases would I need to purchase to have foil/non-foil playset of Mythics, Rares, Uncommons, and commons.
If this is the wrong section I am sorry, Mods please move it.
You got to be careful of ebay fees. I was trying to do something similar to what you are trying to do. But after ebay fees I'm taking a loss. I'm trying to craigslist my boxes off now.
Ebay is ridiculous. They charge you their ebay fee (10%) then they charge you a percentage of your shipping cost (another 10%). You aren't even making money off shipping and they are charging you a percentage of your shipping costs.
The other thing about ebay is the competition. I've seen sellers on ebay sell their boxes at $90 with FREE SHIPPING. Even if the seller is nearby it'll cost you at least $8 shipping. Factor in ebay fees, and these people are still making profits means you are competing against a brick and mortar store and they are getting their boxes super cheap. Meaning they have the advantage.
I've thought about cracking the boxes open but that's a lot of work to sort through and all for just peanuts. It's not worth it in my opinion.
Honestly I was foolish to just jump into this without proper research and I've run into the above problems. If you've found a way to circumvent said problems, please do share.
You got to be careful of ebay fees. I was trying to do something similar to what you are trying to do. But after ebay fees I'm taking a loss. I'm trying to craigslist my boxes off now.
Ebay is ridiculous. They charge you their ebay fee (10%) then they charge you a percentage of your shipping cost (another 10%). You aren't even making money off shipping and they are charging you a percentage of your shipping costs.
Paypal fee is .30 + 2.9% (last time I checked). I usually figure about 3% assuming a decent amount of higher valued transactions are involved too.
Depending on your setup, its usually wise to figure 15-20% to cover all of your ebay fees, paypal fees, and fees related to the shipping charges that you will pay on both. It can be very difficult to make a profit on ebay, unless you are able to get your product to sell on ebay for a significant discount to begin with.
If you are within the borders of the USA you'll have massive benefits over anyone else - not just the cheaper and more abundant product, but the services of the USPS, which is very cheap compared to the mail service of other Western nations like Canada.
Another thing that will help you is understanding the game itself, perfectly. The rules, the strategies, the metagame.
You'll also need connections. Lots of them. Local and online. And you'll need to research your competition, both on eBay, other online sources, and real life businesses as well.
And a great (cheap and easy) source of local booster boxes, that doesn't have issues with supply (even when Wizards drops the ball with their end of things).
And most importantly, LOTS of money to begin with. You'll need a good 10 grand, or at least that much in inventory, to really get off the ground. Big stores like the one you mentioned probably started with a lot more than that.
And expect to fail. A good 95% who set out, do.
Good luck
$10k seems hella cheap imho, I wouldn't even bother w/o starting with at least $50-$100k. Then again I want to go brick. If your credit is good enough and business plan is up to par banks will help out a lot. If you don't have any competition in your area too brick would be the way to go.
TableTopMagic is dead right. I worked with WotC for months to try to make my mobile business work - although they understood it and agreed that the business idea was sound, they couldn't change their internal systems/procedures to handle my concept. Distributors wouldn't touch me w/o Wizard's blessings and Wizards said it was up to the distributor... can you see the circle of pain?
After asking several game stores for help, I finally got one to agree - my additional orders helped bump them in to the next discount bracket, plus the owner has been in business for years and makes a majority of his profit through war gaming and trains; the "MTG thing" just gets kids in the store.
As for singles, I really don't make anything there. I initially tried to open boxes to sell but found only foil lands/mythics sold. Because the kids/players only see me at quarterly or monthly events, they want boosters or full boxes. Plus, I'm usually there to run a sealed or draft, so they are getting plenty of cards already.
Paypal fee is .30 + 2.9% (last time I checked). I usually figure about 3% assuming a decent amount of higher valued transactions are involved too.
Isn't it $0.30 + 2.2% for higher volume users? Similarly, eBay fees are lower for higher volume, Top Rated, etc. The differences aren't great, but they do add up.
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Paypal fee is .30 + 2.9% (last time I checked). I usually figure about 3% assuming a decent amount of higher valued transactions are involved too.
Isn't it $0.30 + 2.2% for higher volume users? Similarly, eBay fees are lower for higher volume, Top Rated, etc. The differences aren't great, but they do add up.
You are correct, though it should be noted that their rate system goes as follows:
$0 to $3,000 : 2.9% + $0.30 : $3.20 fee on a $100 sale
$3,000+ to $10,000 : 2.5% + $0.30 : $2.80 fee on a $100 sale
$10,000+ : 2.2% + $0.30 : $2.50 fee on a $100 sale
The above dollar volume amounts have to be consistent too in order for someone to qualify just like for the top rated seller etc. discounts that you can get on eBay via their power seller program.
This game is stacked against anyone trying to do this. Ebay is the most reliable way to actually sell everything, and Ebay charges a good cut. Paypal takes a good cut. In order to get discounts on Ebay, you have to ship with tracking. To ship with tracking costs a lot. Yes, you can charge a shipping fee, but people take that into account when buying -- ie, they pay less. You need to do auctions in order to sell the crappy rares that no one wants, and even then a LOT of them will not sell.
My wife and I tried this for 4 releases during Innistrad and Return to Ravnica blocks. We were buying 2+ cases per set, and listing all of the auctions exactly at the release of the set (the high point for value in the set). We made a little bit of money on a couple of sets, and on the bad sets...you get hammered. Plus it takes immense amounts of time to sort out all the commons and uncommons to make common/uncommon playsets. I can't imagine trying this later after release as the values fall.....
We did everything we could to make it more profitable (bought bubble mailers at around 0.05 each, penny sleeves and hard loaders at virtually nothing), and you still lose a LOT of money on a bad set, which about half of the sets are (DGM, BTG, JIN, etc...)
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I am in the staring into my research phase now. I know I will need to purchase boxes by the case, but how many cases would I need to purchase for this to become profitable. I know there are other nerds out there with more data than I do. One of the things I need to know are Statically how many cases would I need to purchase to have foil/non-foil playset of Mythics, Rares, Uncommons, and commons.
If this is the wrong section I am sorry, Mods please move it.
Buying direct from wizards is only possible if you own a brick and mortar store to my knowledge. Simple ebay sellers do not have the option to purchase directly. Something to keep in mind.
IIRC, you can't even gain access to distributors without a brick-and-mortar store.
Well that's to bad. At this point I dong have that kind of money. So I would have to buy threw a retailer.
Putting sll that aside what about the rest of my question?
http://stores.ebay.com/MtgGaloreandMore
Thanks for the advice. I am not looking to sell boxes tho. I was thinking of purchasing cards by the case(opening them) and using those to sell singletons or play sets. Any thoughts on that?
Another thing that will help you is understanding the game itself, perfectly. The rules, the strategies, the metagame.
You'll also need connections. Lots of them. Local and online. And you'll need to research your competition, both on eBay, other online sources, and real life businesses as well.
And a great (cheap and easy) source of local booster boxes, that doesn't have issues with supply (even when Wizards drops the ball with their end of things).
And most importantly, LOTS of money to begin with. You'll need a good 10 grand, or at least that much in inventory, to really get off the ground. Big stores like the one you mentioned probably started with a lot more than that.
And expect to fail. A good 95% who set out, do.
Good luck
.
If you have a way to get cases at wholesale prices it might work, but from what I understand you need a B&M location to get cases wholesale. I have a friend who gets boxes at whole sale prices, but even then it is rarely worth it to crack cases for singles outside of the first couple of weeks of each release. One strategy that some ebay vendors use is redeeming full sets on MTGO and then selling those cards as singles. I have no idea exactly how this works, but I think the margins are pretty low and you have do insane volume to make it worthwhile. If you want to make money selling singles, buy cards and buylist or better prices and sell them for as close to retail as you can. I have had success doing this via craigslist and now I even have my own buylist so people in my community come to me when they have cards to sell because it is easier than shipping them to an online vendor.
Good luck!
http://stores.ebay.com/MtgGaloreandMore
This is the simple calculation for how much product you need to open.
(2x Rares + Mythics)/36 = 1 set.
Ebay usually revolves around playsets of 4 so multiply the above number by 4.
If you are only doing 1 playset multiply by 1.2 (20% extra). If you are doing at least 2 playsets an extra 10% product should get you where you want.
Figure out how to sell commons and uncommons profitably. You'll have a LOT of them. Warning, they are labor intensive.
Moving Commander cards is lucrative if you take the time to set up a store because those people want several singles and will pay about the same for a single as for a playset of other cards. They just like to get several single cards at a time to save on shipping.
To be completely honest with you, buying at retail (even bulk retail), You just aren't going to have the margins to compete. With the way chase rares are today, All it takes is 1-2 bad cases and you are taking a big loss. It was a lot easier when the value was spread out in the set.
Furthermore without access to a distributor it is VERY hard to ensure you get enough cases to even fill your orders. I presold Worldwake and had to end up getting cases from SCG because other vendors sold me product they couldn't actually deliver.
With all that said, it might be an ok hobby to get started, while you learn the ropes, but don't expect to make enough to pay your bills.
If you have a store that will sponsor you (IE they don't want to run a singles business but they will let you manage theirs like Jeff used to) you'll be better off.
Guys like Kid Icarus get the vast majority of their post redemption cards from MTGO sets and selling the singles, but now WotC has upped the redemption fee so I don't even know if that is viable for someone who isn't buying directly from bot chains like he does.
Distributors can sell to anyone they want to, as long as they aren`t violating an agreement with WoTC, such as selling to international customers. Their requirements may very so check out many sources.
For example in Canada years ago, you could have an account with Andromeda, a comic distributor as long as you spent $300 a month wholesale. I also knew a card store where you could buy boxes for the same price as buying from a distributor plus GST. GST is a tax we have to pay in Canada even at the wholesale level.
I would really crunch some numbers before investing too much into this venture as Ebay fees are quite high. Might not be that profitable after the pre-sale stage.
To tired to type any more. Good luck with your venture.
You got to be careful of ebay fees. I was trying to do something similar to what you are trying to do. But after ebay fees I'm taking a loss. I'm trying to craigslist my boxes off now.
Ebay is ridiculous. They charge you their ebay fee (10%) then they charge you a percentage of your shipping cost (another 10%). You aren't even making money off shipping and they are charging you a percentage of your shipping costs.
The other thing about ebay is the competition. I've seen sellers on ebay sell their boxes at $90 with FREE SHIPPING. Even if the seller is nearby it'll cost you at least $8 shipping. Factor in ebay fees, and these people are still making profits means you are competing against a brick and mortar store and they are getting their boxes super cheap. Meaning they have the advantage.
I've thought about cracking the boxes open but that's a lot of work to sort through and all for just peanuts. It's not worth it in my opinion.
Honestly I was foolish to just jump into this without proper research and I've run into the above problems. If you've found a way to circumvent said problems, please do share.
+5% paypal fee.
Paypal fee is .30 + 2.9% (last time I checked). I usually figure about 3% assuming a decent amount of higher valued transactions are involved too.
Depending on your setup, its usually wise to figure 15-20% to cover all of your ebay fees, paypal fees, and fees related to the shipping charges that you will pay on both. It can be very difficult to make a profit on ebay, unless you are able to get your product to sell on ebay for a significant discount to begin with.
$10k seems hella cheap imho, I wouldn't even bother w/o starting with at least $50-$100k. Then again I want to go brick. If your credit is good enough and business plan is up to par banks will help out a lot. If you don't have any competition in your area too brick would be the way to go.
After asking several game stores for help, I finally got one to agree - my additional orders helped bump them in to the next discount bracket, plus the owner has been in business for years and makes a majority of his profit through war gaming and trains; the "MTG thing" just gets kids in the store.
As for singles, I really don't make anything there. I initially tried to open boxes to sell but found only foil lands/mythics sold. Because the kids/players only see me at quarterly or monthly events, they want boosters or full boxes. Plus, I'm usually there to run a sealed or draft, so they are getting plenty of cards already.
Isn't it $0.30 + 2.2% for higher volume users? Similarly, eBay fees are lower for higher volume, Top Rated, etc. The differences aren't great, but they do add up.
You are correct, though it should be noted that their rate system goes as follows:
$0 to $3,000 : 2.9% + $0.30 : $3.20 fee on a $100 sale
$3,000+ to $10,000 : 2.5% + $0.30 : $2.80 fee on a $100 sale
$10,000+ : 2.2% + $0.30 : $2.50 fee on a $100 sale
The above dollar volume amounts have to be consistent too in order for someone to qualify just like for the top rated seller etc. discounts that you can get on eBay via their power seller program.
My wife and I tried this for 4 releases during Innistrad and Return to Ravnica blocks. We were buying 2+ cases per set, and listing all of the auctions exactly at the release of the set (the high point for value in the set). We made a little bit of money on a couple of sets, and on the bad sets...you get hammered. Plus it takes immense amounts of time to sort out all the commons and uncommons to make common/uncommon playsets. I can't imagine trying this later after release as the values fall.....
We did everything we could to make it more profitable (bought bubble mailers at around 0.05 each, penny sleeves and hard loaders at virtually nothing), and you still lose a LOT of money on a bad set, which about half of the sets are (DGM, BTG, JIN, etc...)