I have retracted my previous statement. I did have some problems with my transactions with White Lion Games, but trust7 has helped to resolve everything. I don't know his name, but I think he is the store's one and only redeeming quality... At least he's the only redeeming quality I've seen. He had contacted me before to resolve matters, but things were just taking to long, and other employees were contradicting him and saying they couldn't do what trust7 had promised.
I think a large part of the problem with White Lion Games is their whole system. They would be better off offering a little less if they have employees that will try not to honor what the buylist says. If I were the owner of that company, I would take a second or even 3rd mortgage on my house to get the computer system running clean and smooth, because for my business, repeat customers account for nearly 90% of my revenue. Plus the owner should write a customer-centric vision statement and make sure all of the employees there are focused on serving customers instead of trying to save a few extra pennies off a few transactions. Then if employees are caught not serving the customers, then maybe an example should be made out of one of them.
I really think White Lion Games has the potential to be one of the biggest vendors out there, but they really need to fix a few things that are holding them back. This feels so much like one my old business school case studies... But if you get up with White Lion Games, and get in touch with trust7, they will make things right.
Adam, thanks for working with us to resolve your concern. We do what we can to resolve every situation we are able to.
In our case or I should say Magic the Gathering's case there is really only two pricing management systems, one is manual which is how most of the vendors work, which is what it sounds like a person manually updating prices which we do every week. We try to touch every card but with 10,000 cards its pretty tough even as a single person doing it full time. Then there is DPC or Dynamic Price Control which automatically raises and lowers pricing and there are some vendors using that, but I have found that most vendors using DPC that have a price that seems too good to be true, it usually is, if the "Margin" between what it sells at and what it gets bought at are too slim nobody can stay in business but DPC doesnt know how to differentiate and keep itself reasonable. So as you see its constant updating or letting the computer "decide" for you. We chose to do the a person works on it system but we are still human, though we will honor our prices 99.9% of the time, cards not being mint or arriving in a reasonable time sometimes have adjustments occuring but its definitely not what we want. We always want our customers to be happy.
Was just in White Lions Games yesterday to trade some stuff off, and they are really nice people. I had the day to explore Dallas and Fort Worth while a friend was taking a test. When I got there; my friend called to say they were done; figures! I was in a hurry then and employee there rushed my order for me to expadite my order (forgive me if I forgot your name). That was really nice. Thank you!
If you go there; have a list ready cause they don't keep singles in that shop, but location nearby for security.
So over a month ago I sold some cards to white lion games a site that I have sold cards to before without any problems. Usually it takes two weeks for them to process an order well this was in October and here we are in December and I still have yet to get paid so I email them. They say due to staffing changes they couldn't get to it they tell me this twice and then say they will take care of the order and yet they still have not paid me. My friend is a lawyer and she has agreed to help me should I wish to pursue this in court. The thing is I don't understand how a store like this can have such shoddy business ethics.
Not again!!
People need to stop buying/selling with these guys. Obviously they can't run a business correctly. How many issues has this place had compared to other shops? It can't all be customer error.
I'm curious, Was there ever a conclusion to DZRA's issue?
I would NEVER go to this store online to do business with them for any MTG product, unless I was getting a 90% discount on NM or sealed product, or they were buying my cards for 2x what they were worth on the secondary market...and ONLY through Paypal, and only with an agreement of an acceptable timetable of order completion.
From the experiences I read, the store either has the worst employees and day-to-day manager of online ordering ever, or the owner is a shady, greedy guy. Based on the positive things said about in-store experiences, it seems this store has a VERY POOR online business model, poor employees working the online store and a poor manager of the online store.
Was just in White Lions Games yesterday to trade some stuff off, and they are really nice people. I had the day to explore Dallas and Fort Worth while a friend was taking a test. When I got there; my friend called to say they were done; figures! I was in a hurry then and employee there rushed my order for me to expadite my order (forgive me if I forgot your name). That was really nice. Thank you!
If you go there; have a list ready cause they don't keep singles in that shop, but location nearby for security.
Thanks Glad the in-store process is working the way I set it up and quickly.
So over a month ago I sold some cards to white lion games a site that I have sold cards to before without any problems. Usually it takes two weeks for them to process an order well this was in October and here we are in December and I still have yet to get paid so I email them. They say due to staffing changes they couldn't get to it they tell me this twice and then say they will take care of the order and yet they still have not paid me. My friend is a lawyer and she has agreed to help me should I wish to pursue this in court. The thing is I don't understand how a store like this can have such shoddy business ethics.
Julian have you been paid at this point and if you dont mind would you mind private messaging me your order number so I can look in on this and see what happened ?
With all of these negative reviews, why would anyone sell or deal with these guys?
Everyone gets negative press, I have always said that we get it in a different way sometimes than other places sometimes its the same, but when I see issues I always respond, I dont always get notifications from this thread ( i just got one now instead of seeing all these before from december ,
Not again!!
People need to stop buying/selling with these guys. Obviously they can't run a business correctly. How many issues has this place had compared to other shops? It can't all be customer error.
I'm curious, Was there ever a conclusion to DZRA's issue?
Certainly it is not all customer error, there are a LOT of sorting errors which cause delays, foils where non foils are buy listed foreign where english is buylisted very fine excellent and poor where near mint is listed LOTS and LOTS of errors but even I would not say it is entirely customer issues, many orders come in properly sorted and sent with order numbers inside and just take too long for us to process, period. I am big enough to admit it. Though I will say the sheer number of items that come in packaged with a name that doesnt match any incoming order name and no order number on or inside the package no invoice and no way for us to identify who we should be speaking with is bananas actually, so in those cases we literally have to wait for someone to contact us.
I will explain more below about what I have done and am continuing to do to resolve this since about May of 2013.
I would NEVER go to this store online to do business with them for any MTG product, unless I was getting a 90% discount on NM or sealed product, or they were buying my cards for 2x what they were worth on the secondary market...and ONLY through Paypal, and only with an agreement of an acceptable timetable of order completion.
From the experiences I read, the store either has the worst employees and day-to-day manager of online ordering ever, or the owner is a shady, greedy guy. Based on the positive things said about in-store experiences, it seems this store has a VERY POOR online business model, poor employees working the online store and a poor manager of the online store.
Ok here is the jist of what has been going on: In Early 2013 we bought a 144,000.00$ collection, essentially we bought a decent sized STORE out entirely. Directly after that we attempted to SHUT DOWN the buylist completely and found that that is not possible on Find Magic, Bidwicket, Crystal or Tcg its just not built in to the software to turn it "off" so what was done while we were going to be sorting and uploading 2.2 million cards, was setting the buylist maximum quantity to ONE "1". This was done to slow the incoming as much as possible while we put 4 people all day every day on sorting uploading cataloging and entering such a large buy, This project started in August, it took that long to just get it organized to the point that it could be engaged properly to upload. The collection was a 12' Uhaul stacked floor to ceiling riding on the axle because of weight its that much, its literally a 20'x20' room with floor shelves of 5,000count boxes it was daunting to say the least. That collection is nearly uploaded and complete now finally 9 months later. But still lack a few modern sets to be entered.
During that time here was our process:
1. Package arrives and package has a received date written on it in RED sharpie immediately that day next to a SHPD date so there is a RE-WRITING in RED sharpie of what day the item was mailed what day it was INV, invoiced and what day received that way there is clarity in ANY issue of when the entry was made, when it was shipped ( sometimes weeks later ) and when we first got our hands on it. So: INV DATE, SHPD DATE, RCVD DATE all written in red sharpie on the package.
2. All packages that are finished being written on if they are in good shape not damaged or missing items ripped open or anything weird ( happens sometimes but not too often anymore usps has gotten better about this in the past 6-12 months ) are digitally "checked in" via our automatic system, when we select Received in the system it automatically emails each customer THAT day and time that we have clicked this and puts it into a processing Queue for us to make ready.
3. Essentially at this point is about a 3 day wait while the packages that came in before todays packages get looked at, any condition errors, figuring out whos it is, missing cards, or any exceptions whatsoever are worked out at this point, then notes are put into the order that typically gets emailed automatically to the customer including an offer AND during this step an offer is mailed to the customer via manual email just to cover our bases.
4. Once we get an answer which sometimes takes a while typically 3-10 days to get a reply, here is definitely an area which could use improvement somehow because the delay sometimes in getting an answer causes extra delay in getting paid, we can't put the item in the payments queue to be paid unless someone agrees, because sometimes they would rather have a very fine card back for example instead of getting paid a lower amount for it, totally understandable, but still means we can't just throw it on the payments without agreeance. Once that is received we put the payment amount agreement date in a spreadsheet along with every other bit of information including the date invoiced date shipped date received amount owed and any notes.
5. Once a week the payments get sent out in order going down the sheet of who and what is owed.
There are places where things could go smoother and things we could do to fix things, SOME things are truly out of our hands, but I am not making an excuse for the times we are slow, those are mine and mine alone to deal with period. When employees fail its my failure plain and simple and I accept that.
I personally look at and monitor our facebook and am VERY active in the high end magic group on facebook also and nobody ever dealing with me directly in that group has had a bad thing to say, matter of fact most of the time I get involved personally things get worked out pretty much immediately for the most case. I am human and have my own faults to be sure, but my personal cell phone is always available for me to be called or texted, our shop phone is always on and I can be gotten to there also.
Geoff and Rob are the day to day managers if you ever should have an issue ask for one of them, Rob is Geoff's boss. Hopefully this provides some insight into how we do things and where things can fall down.
As an aside is anyone having any issues right this second I can help resolve ?
Hi, I am currently experiencing the same problems with WLG as many of you have posed in this thread. Below I will list both the FB page that is calling for a class action lawsuit, as well as the reddit page discussing it.
After looking into White Lion Games, I have concluded that they no longer operate under that name. From my initial findings, it looks as though they now operate under the name "Crimson Hobbies." If this is true I'd advise everyone here to be wary of dealing with them. There is no chance that I ever would.
I think a large part of the problem with White Lion Games is their whole system. They would be better off offering a little less if they have employees that will try not to honor what the buylist says. If I were the owner of that company, I would take a second or even 3rd mortgage on my house to get the computer system running clean and smooth, because for my business, repeat customers account for nearly 90% of my revenue. Plus the owner should write a customer-centric vision statement and make sure all of the employees there are focused on serving customers instead of trying to save a few extra pennies off a few transactions. Then if employees are caught not serving the customers, then maybe an example should be made out of one of them.
I really think White Lion Games has the potential to be one of the biggest vendors out there, but they really need to fix a few things that are holding them back. This feels so much like one my old business school case studies... But if you get up with White Lion Games, and get in touch with trust7, they will make things right.
-Adam A. Lowe
In our case or I should say Magic the Gathering's case there is really only two pricing management systems, one is manual which is how most of the vendors work, which is what it sounds like a person manually updating prices which we do every week. We try to touch every card but with 10,000 cards its pretty tough even as a single person doing it full time. Then there is DPC or Dynamic Price Control which automatically raises and lowers pricing and there are some vendors using that, but I have found that most vendors using DPC that have a price that seems too good to be true, it usually is, if the "Margin" between what it sells at and what it gets bought at are too slim nobody can stay in business but DPC doesnt know how to differentiate and keep itself reasonable. So as you see its constant updating or letting the computer "decide" for you. We chose to do the a person works on it system but we are still human, though we will honor our prices 99.9% of the time, cards not being mint or arriving in a reasonable time sometimes have adjustments occuring but its definitely not what we want. We always want our customers to be happy.
Anyhow, glad we could end up making you happy too
Chris
If you go there; have a list ready cause they don't keep singles in that shop, but location nearby for security.
Multiplayer Decks- Memnarch - Animar, Soul of Elements - Zur, the Enchanter - Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - Food Chain Tazri - Teysa Karlov
Modern BUMill and Bant Spirits.
Thank you Xenphire for the signature!
Cube on Cubetutor
Come trade with Puca Trade!, the best place to get those hard to get cards no one else will trade!
People need to stop buying/selling with these guys. Obviously they can't run a business correctly. How many issues has this place had compared to other shops? It can't all be customer error.
I'm curious, Was there ever a conclusion to DZRA's issue?
B Lover Since '09 ~
Standard:
meh.
Modern:
Urzatron GR
Vintage:
Contol-Slaver UBR
EDH:
Drana B
Jhoira UR
Savra BG
Turned into:
Adun Oakenshield BGR
Sharuum BUW
Turned into:
Memnarch U
KiKi-Jiki R
Turned into:
Godo R
Turned into:
Aurelia RW
The Mimeoplasm UBG
Rasputin Dreamweaver UW
Turned into:
Geist of Saint Traft -French 1v1 UW
Nekusar UBR
From the experiences I read, the store either has the worst employees and day-to-day manager of online ordering ever, or the owner is a shady, greedy guy. Based on the positive things said about in-store experiences, it seems this store has a VERY POOR online business model, poor employees working the online store and a poor manager of the online store.
WBG Karador GBW
R Daretti R
RG Omnath GR
WRG Modern Burn GRW
WB Modern Tokens BW
DCI Rules Advisor as of 5/18/2015
Thanks Glad the in-store process is working the way I set it up and quickly.
Julian have you been paid at this point and if you dont mind would you mind private messaging me your order number so I can look in on this and see what happened ?
Tuesday - Saturday Noon - Midnight most days
Everyone gets negative press, I have always said that we get it in a different way sometimes than other places sometimes its the same, but when I see issues I always respond, I dont always get notifications from this thread ( i just got one now instead of seeing all these before from december ,
Certainly it is not all customer error, there are a LOT of sorting errors which cause delays, foils where non foils are buy listed foreign where english is buylisted very fine excellent and poor where near mint is listed LOTS and LOTS of errors but even I would not say it is entirely customer issues, many orders come in properly sorted and sent with order numbers inside and just take too long for us to process, period. I am big enough to admit it. Though I will say the sheer number of items that come in packaged with a name that doesnt match any incoming order name and no order number on or inside the package no invoice and no way for us to identify who we should be speaking with is bananas actually, so in those cases we literally have to wait for someone to contact us.
I will explain more below about what I have done and am continuing to do to resolve this since about May of 2013.
Ok here is the jist of what has been going on: In Early 2013 we bought a 144,000.00$ collection, essentially we bought a decent sized STORE out entirely. Directly after that we attempted to SHUT DOWN the buylist completely and found that that is not possible on Find Magic, Bidwicket, Crystal or Tcg its just not built in to the software to turn it "off" so what was done while we were going to be sorting and uploading 2.2 million cards, was setting the buylist maximum quantity to ONE "1". This was done to slow the incoming as much as possible while we put 4 people all day every day on sorting uploading cataloging and entering such a large buy, This project started in August, it took that long to just get it organized to the point that it could be engaged properly to upload. The collection was a 12' Uhaul stacked floor to ceiling riding on the axle because of weight its that much, its literally a 20'x20' room with floor shelves of 5,000count boxes it was daunting to say the least. That collection is nearly uploaded and complete now finally 9 months later. But still lack a few modern sets to be entered.
During that time here was our process:
1. Package arrives and package has a received date written on it in RED sharpie immediately that day next to a SHPD date so there is a RE-WRITING in RED sharpie of what day the item was mailed what day it was INV, invoiced and what day received that way there is clarity in ANY issue of when the entry was made, when it was shipped ( sometimes weeks later ) and when we first got our hands on it. So: INV DATE, SHPD DATE, RCVD DATE all written in red sharpie on the package.
2. All packages that are finished being written on if they are in good shape not damaged or missing items ripped open or anything weird ( happens sometimes but not too often anymore usps has gotten better about this in the past 6-12 months ) are digitally "checked in" via our automatic system, when we select Received in the system it automatically emails each customer THAT day and time that we have clicked this and puts it into a processing Queue for us to make ready.
3. Essentially at this point is about a 3 day wait while the packages that came in before todays packages get looked at, any condition errors, figuring out whos it is, missing cards, or any exceptions whatsoever are worked out at this point, then notes are put into the order that typically gets emailed automatically to the customer including an offer AND during this step an offer is mailed to the customer via manual email just to cover our bases.
4. Once we get an answer which sometimes takes a while typically 3-10 days to get a reply, here is definitely an area which could use improvement somehow because the delay sometimes in getting an answer causes extra delay in getting paid, we can't put the item in the payments queue to be paid unless someone agrees, because sometimes they would rather have a very fine card back for example instead of getting paid a lower amount for it, totally understandable, but still means we can't just throw it on the payments without agreeance. Once that is received we put the payment amount agreement date in a spreadsheet along with every other bit of information including the date invoiced date shipped date received amount owed and any notes.
5. Once a week the payments get sent out in order going down the sheet of who and what is owed.
There are places where things could go smoother and things we could do to fix things, SOME things are truly out of our hands, but I am not making an excuse for the times we are slow, those are mine and mine alone to deal with period. When employees fail its my failure plain and simple and I accept that.
I personally look at and monitor our facebook and am VERY active in the high end magic group on facebook also and nobody ever dealing with me directly in that group has had a bad thing to say, matter of fact most of the time I get involved personally things get worked out pretty much immediately for the most case. I am human and have my own faults to be sure, but my personal cell phone is always available for me to be called or texted, our shop phone is always on and I can be gotten to there also.
Geoff and Rob are the day to day managers if you ever should have an issue ask for one of them, Rob is Geoff's boss. Hopefully this provides some insight into how we do things and where things can fall down.
As an aside is anyone having any issues right this second I can help resolve ?
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1521029638177859/
http://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/2say3p/class_action_lawsuit_white_lion_games/
The Saga of Arkay