I would have simply said that I would be happy to refund $10 on the polluted delta if you would like, however you agreed to the price on the bitterblossoms when we discussed the transaction, and I gave you another $20 off for buying the whole lot, so I feel the offer of a $10 refund to cover the main issue of the delta would be fair. Let me know. Thanks (your name).
If I was in your position, thats how i would have responded.
Of course, I also know the rules on ebay, and refuse to sell anyone anything outside of ebay aside from completely unrelated transactions.
From the looks of things it looks more like it was they doing the scamming than you. Them calling themselves an upstanding business after all of what they have pulled over the years just goes to show how much people should not buy from them and definitely shouldnt sell to them.
I would never trust these people. They're bullies and goons. I would pass this thread around to make sure they know that their poor practices are not to be tolerated in the MTG community.
Definitely I could have handled things better at the end and $10 is something I would have been willing to give them. Not because the card is worth only $20, but because the Polluted Delta was my oversight. Them asking for an addition $10 because they felt they overpaid me was simply them trying to squeeze pennies and bully me.
I think the whole thing just caught me off guard in the way in escalated. Luckily, all my shipments to them were made through eBay using delivery confirmation, otherwise I have no doubt that they would attempt to claim that they never even received the package. (Perhaps this is what they intended when they selected "No Shipping Address Required" for their second Paypal payment..?)
Wow Dzra that's out of control! I've never ever heard of a dealer ask for money back after a sale has already been completed, because they "paid too much for them". It's up to the dealer to be professional, know their prices and look out for themselves.
Considering they are a online only store (their address, 5604 Meadows Way , North Richland Hills , TX, according to the BBB) is a house, doesn't surprise me.
Considering they are a online only store (their address, 5604 Meadows Way , North Richland Hills , TX, according to the BBB) is a house, doesn't surprise me.
According to my interaction with their owner, they're the largest store in Texas for MTG, so I'm not entirely sure the residential address is accurate. Or they're just completely full of ****. Either or, I guess.
I've dealt with them a few times already (only buying) and have a package supposedly incoming. Hope it does turn up... Kinda wish I had seen the thread earlier, to be honest.
I buy quite a bit online, saves me lots of $. My LGS is a big one with pretty inflated prices on everything.
According to my interaction with their owner, they're the largest store in Texas for MTG, so I'm not entirely sure the residential address is accurate. Or they're just completely full of ****. Either or, I guess.
Absolutely not! They are nothing more than a house in NRH, Texas. They don't even compare in size to some of the local stores. The largest online dealer in Texas is Strikezone Online... as far as the Dallas Metroplex Madness Games in Plano is bigger in both size and selection (and he's a legit storefront!)
White Lion is like 3 dudes out of a guy's house, and for the record I refuse to buy from them after hearing horror stories from local players who had terrible problems.
One that I remember distictly was that a guy ordered like $200 worth of cards and elected to pick them up... they told him they would meet him at a nearby Wal-Mart Parking Lot to make the exchange at a certain time. 30 minutes after the scheduled time they hadn't showed so the guy said he called like 3 times with no answer and had to leave messages. An hour after the agreed meet-up time they called and said they were on their way and would arrive in 5 minutes or something... he waited another hour before someone finally showed up to give him his cards that he had already paid for. There are several more that I have heard, but that's the one I specifically remember.
Hearing that others got ripped off doesnt surprise me but does make me sad that they are continuing to get away with it! I have come to the conclusion that either shopping local storefronts or staying with the proven online big-dogs is the way to go!
Way to add fraud to your list of crimes, White Lion Games.
Wow, that is just pathetic. Good thing you not only have tracking, but signiture conformation to prove that they got the package. There are many words I could think of to describe what sort of business they are running and to describe the people that are clearly running it, very few are appropriate to voice here however :p.
They are quite simply one of the most unprofessional, fraud-ridden, scamming, etc etc, online singles businesses that I think Ive heard of. Okay, maybe not THE worst, but clearly is one place Ill never deal with again, and I sincerely hope that they get reported by enough people for their practices and abuse to get their paypal account suspended among other things so they can see real consequences for their actions.
Im going to leave it at that for now, since I have my own business to run, and customers to make sure are happy.
Fair point, just trying to anticipate their no-doubt fantastically cunning scheme.
even if the package didnt have cards, there previous history and there lack of professionalism is a damning blow when the proper authorities would look at it. Basically, they are on the bad end of a stick and there are many other stores out there that do better.
A source, which shall remain anonymous, has also just regaled me with an anecdote of Chris from WLG also trying to horn in on other dealer's businesses, such as attempting to cut-in on confirmed deals and threatening to ruin one end of the transaction's reputation if they didn't sell to Chris instead of the confirmed dealer.
My advice to everyone would be report them for anything to every available source, be it TCGPlayer, the BBB, PayPal, eBay, your local gaming store, where and whatever.
Blackmail, extortion, fraud, thievery, and lying are all vices that shouldn't be promoted in this community, let alone from the sources that are supposed to prop up the community.
Just finished up a deal with them. I know I swore I'd never deal with them again, but this time they bought from me on ebay, so I didn't have a lot of choice. Obviously there were problems. I added them to my blocked buyers list and hopefully I don't ever have to talk to them again.
Just finished up a deal with them. I know I swore I'd never deal with them again, but this time they bought from me on ebay, so I didn't have a lot of choice. Obviously there were problems. I added them to my blocked buyers list and hopefully I don't ever have to talk to them again.
What were the problems? I'm curious because how can they **** up a simple ebay transaction?
What were the problems? I'm curious because how can they **** up a simple ebay transaction?
You'd think so right?
So he bought a card on Friday and didn't pay until Monday. Then on Tuesday when I'm just about to ship he buys two more cards. I invoice him $0 shipping on the new stuff because I assume he wants me to ship everything together. We converse about some other stuff I have listed that he tries to talk me down on, during which he casually mentions that I can ship everything in the same package.
He then doesn't pay for the new stuff until Friday, at which point I tell him I'm ready to ship. He then complains that he thought I shipped everything on Monday and that his window to resell the first card has passed. So he tells me he just wants to cancel everything, even the cards he just paid for (with free shipping) the day before.
We go back and forth about who's fault the miscommunication was, and I end up having to apologize (even though I was just trying to do what I thought he wanted me to do) and kiss his bum just to avoid negative feedback. My subservient attitude works and he agrees to go through with the deal. I held my breath until he left feedback though, as I've had 100% for a year.
According to my interaction with their owner, they're the largest store in Texas for MTG, so I'm not entirely sure the residential address is accurate. Or they're just completely full of ****. Either or, I guess.
Pretty sure they're smaller than 3rd coast cards, definatly smaller than strikezoneonline (which is probably the best online vendor in texas), they're also smaller than about half a dozen brick and mortar stores that only do local transactions, and heroes and fantasies which is a san antonio chain that does ebay only.
So yeah they're lying there for whatever reason.
I sold about $200 worth of stuff to them, only real complaint is how long it took to recieve payment and they tried to contact me over phone rather than email which I said I prefered. Took them 1 month AFTER recieving cards to pay and I emailed them that if I didn't hear from them soon I'd just file mail fraud. They kept in contact with me after that.
I don't particularly care one way or the other about WLG (I usually shop SZO), but I felt that I would investigate their claim to being the largest MTG retailer in Texas and whether or not it was true. According to FMC, they have almost 1,000 more "transactions" than SZO (7,682 to 6,718) and more than twice what 3CC has (3,196).
TCG Player, on the other hand, has WLG at almost 100 less feedback than SZO (3CC has 46 while WLG has 233 and SZO has 323, so no, WLG sounds much larger than 3CC by any comparison, or any local store that has no online presence, unless that store is some kind of Walmart-esque establishment). That puts my store of choice at the largest, but I feel that for the sake of argument, I would be remiss if I didn't establish that SZO also sells Yu-Gi-Oh!, Pokemon, D&D Minis, Heroclix, and I believe Redakai.
As I said before, I usually shop SZO (and I never sell cards to online retailers), and the practices that Im hearing in this thread sound very much like practices I could not condone from any business for any reason, but I found the claim that of being the biggest to be somewhat interesting and worthy of some verification (as it's something that is usually boasted by a business for whatever region), and potentially true looking at the numbers from FMC and TCG-P.
Though I guess its not the main issue here. Oh well
I don't particularly care one way or the other about WLG (I usually shop SZO), but I felt that I would investigate their claim to being the largest MTG retailer in Texas and whether or not it was true. According to FMC, they have almost 1,000 more "transactions" than SZO (7,682 to 6,718) and more than twice what 3CC has (3,196).
TCG Player, on the other hand, has WLG at almost 100 less feedback than SZO (3CC has 46 while WLG has 233 and SZO has 323, so no, WLG sounds much larger than 3CC by any comparison, or any local store that has no online presence, unless that store is some kind of Walmart-esque establishment). That puts my store of choice at the largest, but I feel that for the sake of argument, I would be remiss if I didn't establish that SZO also sells Yu-Gi-Oh!, Pokemon, D&D Minis, Heroclix, and I believe Redakai.
As I said before, I usually shop SZO (and I never sell cards to online retailers), and the practices that Im hearing in this thread sound very much like practices I could not condone from any business for any reason, but I found the claim that of being the biggest to be somewhat interesting and worthy of some verification (as it's something that is usually boasted by a business for whatever region), and potentially true looking at the numbers from FMC and TCG-P.
Though I guess its not the main issue here. Oh well
this is true but strikezone also runs a brick and mortar store as does the other stores I mentioned.
Whitelion games does not, just a booth at events sometimes.
In all of my time selling cards to businesses like StrikeZone, 3rd Coast Cards, Hobby Goblin, etc., I never had an issue nor a huge pricing differential unless the cards were viewed as less than Mint in their eyes.
Recently, I decided to sell a bunch of cards to White Lion Games.
This post is written to explain why you should never, and I mean never, sell to them ever.
This is how their scam works:
1) They post better buy prices than most of the market. Most people use www.findmagiccards.com since it is a high traffic site.
2) Your cards are then "sold" to them and shipped.
Now here is where it gets really shady because after you complete your buy order they recommend you use tracking/insurance on your sell orders since they are not responsible for lost mail. I can understand that buy never had I had this issue before ... and they also state that they have the power to change prices, i.e. if they get too many of a certain card. This is where I take issue as this practice is highly abusive and extremely profitable for the store.
3) Since they do not honor prices like most reputable stores aka within 7 days shipping, they can change the price on a whim by feeding you a lie for example.
4) They do not email you saying they got your order. Therefore they can "sit" on that order and pay less say 1-2 weeks later.
5) You get paid less than what was advertised.
6) You are left then questioning why you even sold to them since at those prices you could of gotten more selling elsewhere.
Granted, they are shaving off a few dollars here and there but if you multiply that you can say they are saving themselves thousands of dollars a year by basically lying sans buylist.
Every order I sold to them I had to email them asking if they got it. Want to know one of the responses I got from the CEO?
Most of the time letters like yours are summarily returned for this exact reason, your letter was sitting in a pile to be returned ( we have had more letters like yours damaged by the post than I care to count and don't even want to open them or have it seem like we touched them period so we just return them most of the time now )
Just as an FYI you stated in this mail last Monday and while I respect your opinion of our great USPS I must frankly flat out disagree with you, we REGULARLY have mail come in 30-60 DAYS past there mailing date, and the idea that again we could/would be blamed for this is not what we are looking for in our business. We have been in business for 20 years 15 on ebay and I assure you being accused of stealing peoples cards is not what we do or what we want occuring.
As the owner of the company I do not personally reply to emails directly very often any more but I felt the need in this case, your letter is here and I will forward it to Geoff for processing instead of return, in the future please don't think 45cents is a guarantee of time or delivery proof or delivery without damage in ANY way shape or form, we ship thousands of packages a month and even WITH insurance and tracking on EVERY package we send we still at any time have 20+ outstanding mail issues on any given day.
This was a time line of my final transaction with them.
March 30th & April 1st: I complete buy orders from their website. April 2nd: I ship the orders out at the same time to test my theory. April 10th: My lesser buy order magically appears at their store in Fort Worth that day after several emails because my eBay orders to Washington State & California got 3-4 days prior to theirs. I then get offered 81% on the lesser order. April 11th: I got that e-mail from the CEO after I call them out on their practices since they claimed that they never got a second letter containing 4x Hero of Bladehold. April 13th: I took a screenshot of the buy price on those 4x Hero of Bladeholds I sold for the exact price I sold it as. April 18th: I get a new email saying they lowered their buy prices on the Heroes and are offering 91% on the original offer.
Do you see how this store can manipulate and work the prices?
Can you see how even if you paid for tracking/insurance they could respond with "we are going to have to offer you less because we are now overstocked"?
This store has pretty much made me never want to sell card again. Ever. And I won't.
This is my warning to you guys. Never sell cards to this store ever. It is notorious for being very shady and not honoring anything. Just google it.
I made this mtgsalvation account just to post this experience. Also, sorry if this was posted in the wrong forum.
That thread is filled with people who have had awful experiences with them. People are much more likely to report a bad experience than a good experience. Those reports of bad experiences will only be from the POV of the person who had those bad experiences, so they will likely be slanted to make the store look even worse. Despite all of that, they look REALLY bad.
If you are really upset about this, you can try filing mail fraud charges or reporting them to the BBB. If you do, you may want to get in touch with as many other people who have also had White Lion experiences as you can find. If a lot of people report them all at once, you may get someone's attention.
Just as an FYI you stated in this mail last Monday and while I respect your opinion of our great USPS I must frankly flat out disagree with you, we REGULARLY have mail come in 30-60 DAYS past there mailing date, and the idea that again we could/would be blamed for this is not what we are looking for in our business. We have been in business for 20 years 15 on ebay and I assure you being accused of stealing peoples cards is not what we do or what we want occuring.
As the owner of the company I do not personally reply to emails directly very often any more but I felt the need in this case, your letter is here and I will forward it to Geoff for processing instead of return, in the future please don't think 45cents is a guarantee of time or delivery proof or delivery without damage in ANY way shape or form, we ship thousands of packages a month and even WITH insurance and tracking on EVERY package we send we still at any time have 20+ outstanding mail issues on any given day.
These are lies. My tea company ships similar volume of packages and we only have problems with 1 in 800/1,000. Most of the time these few mistakes are simple to resolve.
Oh just don't ship to Berkeley CA, their USPS is unbelievably bad.
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If I was in your position, thats how i would have responded.
Of course, I also know the rules on ebay, and refuse to sell anyone anything outside of ebay aside from completely unrelated transactions.
From the looks of things it looks more like it was they doing the scamming than you. Them calling themselves an upstanding business after all of what they have pulled over the years just goes to show how much people should not buy from them and definitely shouldnt sell to them.
Just my thoughts.
Buy from me on TCGPlayer::Twitter::Flickr
I think the whole thing just caught me off guard in the way in escalated. Luckily, all my shipments to them were made through eBay using delivery confirmation, otherwise I have no doubt that they would attempt to claim that they never even received the package. (Perhaps this is what they intended when they selected "No Shipping Address Required" for their second Paypal payment..?)
Juju Alters - Altered MTG Cards
I'm just pissed that they have to be made.
According to my interaction with their owner, they're the largest store in Texas for MTG, so I'm not entirely sure the residential address is accurate. Or they're just completely full of ****. Either or, I guess.
Buy from me on TCGPlayer::Twitter::Flickr
I buy quite a bit online, saves me lots of $. My LGS is a big one with pretty inflated prices on everything.
Absolutely not! They are nothing more than a house in NRH, Texas. They don't even compare in size to some of the local stores. The largest online dealer in Texas is Strikezone Online... as far as the Dallas Metroplex Madness Games in Plano is bigger in both size and selection (and he's a legit storefront!)
White Lion is like 3 dudes out of a guy's house, and for the record I refuse to buy from them after hearing horror stories from local players who had terrible problems.
One that I remember distictly was that a guy ordered like $200 worth of cards and elected to pick them up... they told him they would meet him at a nearby Wal-Mart Parking Lot to make the exchange at a certain time. 30 minutes after the scheduled time they hadn't showed so the guy said he called like 3 times with no answer and had to leave messages. An hour after the agreed meet-up time they called and said they were on their way and would arrive in 5 minutes or something... he waited another hour before someone finally showed up to give him his cards that he had already paid for. There are several more that I have heard, but that's the one I specifically remember.
Hearing that others got ripped off doesnt surprise me but does make me sad that they are continuing to get away with it! I have come to the conclusion that either shopping local storefronts or staying with the proven online big-dogs is the way to go!
Here is the message I received from PayPal:
Here is the tracking information (USPS):
Way to add fraud to your list of crimes, White Lion Games.
Removed link to Chris' personal Facebook page; thought it was a link to WLG, not his personal info.
Wow, that is just pathetic. Good thing you not only have tracking, but signiture conformation to prove that they got the package. There are many words I could think of to describe what sort of business they are running and to describe the people that are clearly running it, very few are appropriate to voice here however :p.
They are quite simply one of the most unprofessional, fraud-ridden, scamming, etc etc, online singles businesses that I think Ive heard of. Okay, maybe not THE worst, but clearly is one place Ill never deal with again, and I sincerely hope that they get reported by enough people for their practices and abuse to get their paypal account suspended among other things so they can see real consequences for their actions.
Im going to leave it at that for now, since I have my own business to run, and customers to make sure are happy.
Juju Alters - Altered MTG Cards
Except for th PM or email chain where they threaten to hold his money up and acknowledge they got cards, but feel they overpaid.
Hope you get this settled quick.
Fair point, just trying to anticipate their no-doubt fantastically cunning scheme.
Juju Alters - Altered MTG Cards
even if the package didnt have cards, there previous history and there lack of professionalism is a damning blow when the proper authorities would look at it. Basically, they are on the bad end of a stick and there are many other stores out there that do better.
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyMy advice to everyone would be report them for anything to every available source, be it TCGPlayer, the BBB, PayPal, eBay, your local gaming store, where and whatever.
Blackmail, extortion, fraud, thievery, and lying are all vices that shouldn't be promoted in this community, let alone from the sources that are supposed to prop up the community.
Buy from me on TCGPlayer::Twitter::Flickr
What were the problems? I'm curious because how can they **** up a simple ebay transaction?
Juju Alters - Altered MTG Cards
You'd think so right?
So he bought a card on Friday and didn't pay until Monday. Then on Tuesday when I'm just about to ship he buys two more cards. I invoice him $0 shipping on the new stuff because I assume he wants me to ship everything together. We converse about some other stuff I have listed that he tries to talk me down on, during which he casually mentions that I can ship everything in the same package.
He then doesn't pay for the new stuff until Friday, at which point I tell him I'm ready to ship. He then complains that he thought I shipped everything on Monday and that his window to resell the first card has passed. So he tells me he just wants to cancel everything, even the cards he just paid for (with free shipping) the day before.
We go back and forth about who's fault the miscommunication was, and I end up having to apologize (even though I was just trying to do what I thought he wanted me to do) and kiss his bum just to avoid negative feedback. My subservient attitude works and he agrees to go through with the deal. I held my breath until he left feedback though, as I've had 100% for a year.
edit - My pronouns were all over the place.
Pretty sure they're smaller than 3rd coast cards, definatly smaller than strikezoneonline (which is probably the best online vendor in texas), they're also smaller than about half a dozen brick and mortar stores that only do local transactions, and heroes and fantasies which is a san antonio chain that does ebay only.
So yeah they're lying there for whatever reason.
I sold about $200 worth of stuff to them, only real complaint is how long it took to recieve payment and they tried to contact me over phone rather than email which I said I prefered. Took them 1 month AFTER recieving cards to pay and I emailed them that if I didn't hear from them soon I'd just file mail fraud. They kept in contact with me after that.
TCG Player, on the other hand, has WLG at almost 100 less feedback than SZO (3CC has 46 while WLG has 233 and SZO has 323, so no, WLG sounds much larger than 3CC by any comparison, or any local store that has no online presence, unless that store is some kind of Walmart-esque establishment). That puts my store of choice at the largest, but I feel that for the sake of argument, I would be remiss if I didn't establish that SZO also sells Yu-Gi-Oh!, Pokemon, D&D Minis, Heroclix, and I believe Redakai.
As I said before, I usually shop SZO (and I never sell cards to online retailers), and the practices that Im hearing in this thread sound very much like practices I could not condone from any business for any reason, but I found the claim that of being the biggest to be somewhat interesting and worthy of some verification (as it's something that is usually boasted by a business for whatever region), and potentially true looking at the numbers from FMC and TCG-P.
Though I guess its not the main issue here. Oh well
this is true but strikezone also runs a brick and mortar store as does the other stores I mentioned.
Whitelion games does not, just a booth at events sometimes.
Recently, I decided to sell a bunch of cards to White Lion Games.
This post is written to explain why you should never, and I mean never, sell to them ever.
This is how their scam works:
1) They post better buy prices than most of the market. Most people use www.findmagiccards.com since it is a high traffic site.
2) Your cards are then "sold" to them and shipped.
Now here is where it gets really shady because after you complete your buy order they recommend you use tracking/insurance on your sell orders since they are not responsible for lost mail. I can understand that buy never had I had this issue before ... and they also state that they have the power to change prices, i.e. if they get too many of a certain card. This is where I take issue as this practice is highly abusive and extremely profitable for the store.
3) Since they do not honor prices like most reputable stores aka within 7 days shipping, they can change the price on a whim by feeding you a lie for example.
4) They do not email you saying they got your order. Therefore they can "sit" on that order and pay less say 1-2 weeks later.
5) You get paid less than what was advertised.
6) You are left then questioning why you even sold to them since at those prices you could of gotten more selling elsewhere.
Granted, they are shaving off a few dollars here and there but if you multiply that you can say they are saving themselves thousands of dollars a year by basically lying sans buylist.
Every order I sold to them I had to email them asking if they got it. Want to know one of the responses I got from the CEO?
This was a time line of my final transaction with them.
March 30th & April 1st: I complete buy orders from their website.
April 2nd: I ship the orders out at the same time to test my theory.
April 10th: My lesser buy order magically appears at their store in Fort Worth that day after several emails because my eBay orders to Washington State & California got 3-4 days prior to theirs. I then get offered 81% on the lesser order.
April 11th: I got that e-mail from the CEO after I call them out on their practices since they claimed that they never got a second letter containing 4x Hero of Bladehold.
April 13th: I took a screenshot of the buy price on those 4x Hero of Bladeholds I sold for the exact price I sold it as.
April 18th: I get a new email saying they lowered their buy prices on the Heroes and are offering 91% on the original offer.
Do you see how this store can manipulate and work the prices?
Can you see how even if you paid for tracking/insurance they could respond with "we are going to have to offer you less because we are now overstocked"?
This store has pretty much made me never want to sell card again. Ever. And I won't.
This is my warning to you guys. Never sell cards to this store ever. It is notorious for being very shady and not honoring anything. Just google it.
I made this mtgsalvation account just to post this experience. Also, sorry if this was posted in the wrong forum.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=263300
That thread is filled with people who have had awful experiences with them. People are much more likely to report a bad experience than a good experience. Those reports of bad experiences will only be from the POV of the person who had those bad experiences, so they will likely be slanted to make the store look even worse. Despite all of that, they look REALLY bad.
If you are really upset about this, you can try filing mail fraud charges or reporting them to the BBB. If you do, you may want to get in touch with as many other people who have also had White Lion experiences as you can find. If a lot of people report them all at once, you may get someone's attention.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=557874
These are lies. My tea company ships similar volume of packages and we only have problems with 1 in 800/1,000. Most of the time these few mistakes are simple to resolve.
Oh just don't ship to Berkeley CA, their USPS is unbelievably bad.