whats the deal with Descent of the Dragons? third most sold card on mcm and its price reached 5 euro a piece already. was there some pro hyping it or what happened to that thing?
Yeah, I think the intended line of play is something like t2 Thaum, t3 Hordeling Outburst, t4 Dragon Tempest, Descent of the Dragons targeting all three tokens and the Thaumaturgist (so it only costs RR), make 4 dragons, deal 16 with the tempest and then bash for another 16.
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If current standard is anything to go by, this is a terrible deck. T3 when you pass, the other player will anger or drown or arc lightning away your relevant dudes, or just Slash your blue combo piece, Thaumaturge.
Then again, people like playing janky gotcha combos, especially with dragons.
Yeah, I think the intended line of play is something like t2 Thaum, t3 Hordeling Outburst, t4 Dragon Tempest, Descent of the Dragons targeting all three tokens and the Thaumaturgist (so it only costs RR), make 4 dragons, deal 16 with the tempest and then bash for another 16.
If current standard is anything to go by, this is a terrible deck. T3 when you pass, the other player will anger or drown or arc lightning away your relevant dudes, or just Slash your blue combo piece, Thaumaturge.
Then again, people like playing janky gotcha combos, especially with dragons.
You can also wait until turn 4 to drop the Thaumaturge, though there's no way to avoid your tokens being vulnerable. It's janky for sure, but the threat of being able to drop 4+ dragons into play for 1URR if your opponent ever passes the turn to you with 3 creatures on the board is certainly a potent one.
Edit: Some maths to see which clan is, financially, the best option.
The elder dragons are all $4-5, and those are almost certainly the only mythics you can get in the packs.
This assumes that only the cards with the watermarks appear in packs, which is obviously not quite correct, and that anything under $1.50 is worthless. But by those numbers, Kolaghan is your best bet and Silumgar the worst.
I'm more scared of losing on preorder than I am confident of picking a winner.
Buy a mythic at $10 and it's a dud you lose $30 on a play set. Don't pick up a mythic and it goes from $10 up to $20 you have to pay double but haven't really lost a cent because you know the card will be good and playable at that point after it's proven and the price is soaring.
Of course planeswalkers are always bad value. Narset might suffer the same fate as Nissa. Doesn't matter that she's not 20 copies in the top 8 of every big tournament, $50 will be the going rate for the first 3 months.
All the big wins in speculation tend to be from $3-$5.
Courser, Dig, Tasigur. All great underrated sources of card advantage.
There's Ojutai's Command which can replace itself but is expensive and doesn't counter just anything.
I think this set is built to give control strategies a bit of a boost but mainly through sideboard options to answer anything, it's that core 60 I'm not sure about. Maybe this is where Wizards saw their future league transition to the Pearl Lake Ancient control battles.
Dragonlord Dromoka - Seems like an amazing curve-topper for the already dominant GW and GWB midrange decks Dromoka's Command - A solid piece of removal for the GW version of the above deck. Atarka's Command - Will see extensive Modern play in Burn Collected Company - This is already getting some press for Modern, and could easily spike Dragon Whisperer and Shorecrasher Elemental - These are the missing pieces to bring back their respective devotion decks Kolaghan's Command - This card does so much. I have a hard time believing it won't see standard play.
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Dragonlord Dromoka - Seems like an amazing curve-topper for the already dominant GW and GWB midrange decks Dromoka's Command - A solid piece of removal for the GW version of the above deck. Atarka's Command - Will see extensive Modern play in Burn Collected Company - This is already getting some press for Modern, and could easily spike Dragon Whisperer and Shorecrasher Elemental - These are the missing pieces to bring back their respective devotion decks Kolaghan's Command - This card does so much. I have a hard time believing it won't see standard play.
I agree on the two cheap Commands. They are playable, versatile, and powerful.
I think Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit will be a big winner. If you don't kill her, she continually buffs your board and rewards you just for playing Magic. And in Modern, she's a combo piece to a variety of builds, all while being more than just the grizzly bear which with Melira, Sylvok Outcast.
Atarka's Command is actually the only card I've preordered from a speculation stand point. Seems like a given long term... I have also snagged a playset of anafenza at her current price since I'll use her and I could see her going up.
I'm eye-ing a couple others but I agree with both of the posters above that two two cheaper commands are good bets.
EDIT: for example I got 4 sunscorch regents... not going to explode... but I see long term casual (and EDH) appeal on this one and it's a junk bin rare right now... and I need a couple anyway for my own EDH decks.
Let me lay out a scenario; against slower decks like Abzan, CC can put a ton of pressure off a T1/T2 Birds of Paradise or Noble Hierarch. Even if it gets countered, playing CC at the end of an opponent's turn can clear the way to play spells on your turn without restrictions. CC just requires the right deck to be built around which means I'm not slotting it in my Abzan deck with Souls and Rhino clogging up the card slots. it will probably spawn its own archetype and might be fine in Zoo decks.
I wonder where the foil Dragonlords will end up. Right now the two I want most, Dromoka and Ojutai, are $50 and $55 each. That seems like a ton for those particular cards, seeing as they're unproven and also appeared in the prerelease packs. I remember buying a foil Stormbreath Dragon for like $24 and that card is one of the best dragons ever printed and wasn't available in a prerelease pack. Then again, Dromoka and Ojutai do have some EDH appeal I suppose.
I wonder where the foil Dragonlords will end up. Right now the two I want most, Dromoka and Ojutai, are $50 and $55 each. That seems like a ton for those particular cards, seeing as they're unproven and also appeared in the prerelease packs. I remember buying a foil Stormbreath Dragon for like $24 and that card is one of the best dragons ever printed and wasn't available in a prerelease pack. Then again, Dromoka and Ojutai do have some EDH appeal I suppose.
Second, none of the Elders are going to compete with cards already used in most formats. So, you are left with you - the dragon collector - as the main demand. My guess is they'll be half that price in 2 weeks and even less in a month.
Thanks for bringing me back to reality. I think I've started relying on Pucatrade way too much for my pricing. I just started browsing the Dragons of Tarkir cards a moment ago and freaked out when I saw 5500 points for Ojutai, Dromoka and Kolgahn. Maybe I'll ACTUALLY be able to afford them, then!
Thanks for bringing me back to reality. I think I've started relying on Pucatrade way too much for my pricing. I just started browsing the Dragons of Tarkir cards a moment ago and freaked out when I saw 5500 points for Ojutai, Dromoka and Kolgahn. Maybe I'll ACTUALLY be able to afford them, then!
They pull from TCG and when the sample size is small.... bad news. They had foil guttural responses at 450 two days ago while the non-foils were almost 700. Yeah, not a perfect system.
Thanks for bringing me back to reality. I think I've started relying on Pucatrade way too much for my pricing. I just started browsing the Dragons of Tarkir cards a moment ago and freaked out when I saw 5500 points for Ojutai, Dromoka and Kolgahn. Maybe I'll ACTUALLY be able to afford them, then!
They pull from TCG and when the sample size is small.... bad news. They had foil guttural responses at 450 two days ago while the non-foils were almost 700. Yeah, not a perfect system.
You're right. They're especially bad with foils. But I've learned about so many card's sudden price spikes lately from pucatrade that I've just started defaulting to it when I want to see what a card's going for.
So, the dragons are about $15 on Ebay right now. That sounds about right considering that's where similar cards like Anafenza (also a mythic legendary who is sees a lot of play and was in the prerelease pack) have settled. Being a dragon will add a bonus.
Whoop..looks like all the foil dragonlords under $30 were bought out. Spoke too soon!
Well, time to preorder something else. I managed to guess right on Tasigir, Outpost Siege and Mastery of the Unseen for Fate but missed the boat on Frontier Siege. Let's see how I can do with dragons! I thought the following cards were possibly undervalued so I bought a playset:
Here's to hoping you are right! I am kicking myself for not pre-ordering at $6 last week.
$6 is a good deal to you? I look at this and see a classic SAT comparison.
What Dark Confidant is to Pain Seer, Vengevine is to __________.
A) Dark Confidant
B) Pain Seer
C) Deathmist Raptor
D) All of the above.
They're hoping to combo it with tokens and Battlefield Thaumaturge.
Yeah, I think the intended line of play is something like t2 Thaum, t3 Hordeling Outburst, t4 Dragon Tempest, Descent of the Dragons targeting all three tokens and the Thaumaturgist (so it only costs RR), make 4 dragons, deal 16 with the tempest and then bash for another 16.
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Then again, people like playing janky gotcha combos, especially with dragons.
You can also wait until turn 4 to drop the Thaumaturge, though there's no way to avoid your tokens being vulnerable. It's janky for sure, but the threat of being able to drop 4+ dragons into play for 1URR if your opponent ever passes the turn to you with 3 creatures on the board is certainly a potent one.
Edit: Some maths to see which clan is, financially, the best option.
The elder dragons are all $4-5, and those are almost certainly the only mythics you can get in the packs.
By clan, the other rares worth more than $2 (rounded to the nearest $) are
Dromoka ($11): Dromoka's Command ($3), Avatar of the Resolute ($3), Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit ($3), Arashin Foremost ($2)
Ojutai ($11): Myth Realized ($5), Ojutai's Command ($4), Stratus Dancer ($2)
Silumgar ($7): Sidisi, Undead Vizier ($4), Silumgar's Command ($3)
Kolaghan ($12): Thunderbreak Regent ($5), Kolaghan's Command ($3), Zurgo, Bellstriker ($2), Ire Shaman ($2)
Atkara ($9): Atarka's Command ($5), Surrak, the Hunt-caller ($2), Den Protector ($2)
This assumes that only the cards with the watermarks appear in packs, which is obviously not quite correct, and that anything under $1.50 is worthless. But by those numbers, Kolaghan is your best bet and Silumgar the worst.
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Narset Transcendent 34.95 (-0.49)
Sarkhan Unbroken 21.95 (+1.02)
Deathmist Raptor 9.94 (+3.45)
Ojutai Exemplars 7.26 (-0.56)
shorecrasher Elemental 6.23 (+0.23)
Dragon Whisper 6.18 (-0.08)
Dragonlord Dromoka 6.06 (-0.43)
Dragonlord Atarka 5.94 (0.00)
Dragonlord Ojutai 5.94 (+1.00)
Shaman of Forgotten Ways 5.66 (+0.04)
Dragonlord Silumgar 5.50 (+0.01)
Thunderbreak Regent 5.28 (-0.29)
Atarka's Command 4.74 (+0.06)
Collected Company 4.44 (-0.19)
Ojutai's Command 4.32 (+0.03)
Myth Realized 4.13 (-0.40)
Dragonlord Kolaghan 3.99 (+0.04)
Sidisi, Undead Vizier 3.95 (-0.03)
Secure the Wastes 3.72 (-0.23)
Dromoka's Command 3.44 (-0.15)
Descent of the Dragons 3.43 (-0.06)
Haven of the Spirit Dragon 3.11 (-0.20)
Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit 2.99 (+0.35)
Kolaghan's Command 2.78 (-0.16)
Risen Executioner 2.69 (-0.14)
Avatar of the Resolute 2.47 (-0.31)
Silumgar's Command 2.45 (-0.35)
Dragon Tempest 2.29 (-0.10)
Zurgo Bellstriker 2.28 (-0.03)
Assault Formation 2.09 (-0.18)
Commune with Lava 1.97 (-0.25)
Damnable Pact 1.97 (-0.45)
Surrack, the Hunt Caller 1.94 (-0.20)
Clone Legion 1.86 (-0.31)
Stratus Dancer 1.62 (-0.08)
Arashin Foremost 1.57 (-0.06)
Den Protecter 1.56 (-0.32)
Emblem - Narset 1.56 (+0.01)
Icefall Regent 1.53 (-0.06)
Ire Shaman 1.31 (-0.05)
Radiant Purge 1.29 (-0.16)
Sunscorch Regent 1.28 (-0.06)
Mirror Mockery 1.25 (-0.18)
Dragonlord's Servant 1.02 (0.00)
Hidden Dragonslayer 1 (0.00)
Set is trending down, but there are some upticks with Deathmist Raptor and Dragonlord Atarki. Good luck at your PRe-Release(s)!
Buy a mythic at $10 and it's a dud you lose $30 on a play set. Don't pick up a mythic and it goes from $10 up to $20 you have to pay double but haven't really lost a cent because you know the card will be good and playable at that point after it's proven and the price is soaring.
Of course planeswalkers are always bad value. Narset might suffer the same fate as Nissa. Doesn't matter that she's not 20 copies in the top 8 of every big tournament, $50 will be the going rate for the first 3 months.
All the big wins in speculation tend to be from $3-$5.
Courser, Dig, Tasigur. All great underrated sources of card advantage.
I'm not sure such card advantage exists here. There's the token generator Secure the Wastes and there's Dragonlord Ojutai that lets you Anticipate if you connect.
There's Ojutai's Command which can replace itself but is expensive and doesn't counter just anything.
I think this set is built to give control strategies a bit of a boost but mainly through sideboard options to answer anything, it's that core 60 I'm not sure about. Maybe this is where Wizards saw their future league transition to the Pearl Lake Ancient control battles.
Dragonlord Dromoka - Seems like an amazing curve-topper for the already dominant GW and GWB midrange decks
Dromoka's Command - A solid piece of removal for the GW version of the above deck.
Atarka's Command - Will see extensive Modern play in Burn
Collected Company - This is already getting some press for Modern, and could easily spike
Dragon Whisperer and Shorecrasher Elemental - These are the missing pieces to bring back their respective devotion decks
Kolaghan's Command - This card does so much. I have a hard time believing it won't see standard play.
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I agree on the two cheap Commands. They are playable, versatile, and powerful.
I think Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit will be a big winner. If you don't kill her, she continually buffs your board and rewards you just for playing Magic. And in Modern, she's a combo piece to a variety of builds, all while being more than just the grizzly bear which with Melira, Sylvok Outcast.
Collected Company is really cool, but I'm concerned that it isn't high enough power level for Modern. People are casting Gifts Ungiven at four mana, or Splinter Twin.
I am picking up one of each Dragonlord (and three Ojutai), but that is mostly because I think they will be forever fun in EDH.
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I'm eye-ing a couple others but I agree with both of the posters above that two two cheaper commands are good bets.
EDIT: for example I got 4 sunscorch regents... not going to explode... but I see long term casual (and EDH) appeal on this one and it's a junk bin rare right now... and I need a couple anyway for my own EDH decks.
I think the power level is there but thinking you can get "just" 2 vanilla Goyfs from it is really shallow. Getting Eternal Witness to return CC, and also applying pressure with Kitchen Finks or Voice of Resurgence is huge at instant speed. Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit is actually another Gavony Township, which can turn mana dorks into beaters. Phantasmal Image, Sin Collector, and Spellskite act as instant speed answers granted if CC is the only card you have.
Let me lay out a scenario; against slower decks like Abzan, CC can put a ton of pressure off a T1/T2 Birds of Paradise or Noble Hierarch. Even if it gets countered, playing CC at the end of an opponent's turn can clear the way to play spells on your turn without restrictions. CC just requires the right deck to be built around which means I'm not slotting it in my Abzan deck with Souls and Rhino clogging up the card slots. it will probably spawn its own archetype and might be fine in Zoo decks.
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Second, none of the Elders are going to compete with cards already used in most formats. So, you are left with you - the dragon collector - as the main demand. My guess is they'll be half that price in 2 weeks and even less in a month.
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You're right. They're especially bad with foils. But I've learned about so many card's sudden price spikes lately from pucatrade that I've just started defaulting to it when I want to see what a card's going for.
So, the dragons are about $15 on Ebay right now. That sounds about right considering that's where similar cards like Anafenza (also a mythic legendary who is sees a lot of play and was in the prerelease pack) have settled. Being a dragon will add a bonus.
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Well, time to preorder something else. I managed to guess right on Tasigir, Outpost Siege and Mastery of the Unseen for Fate but missed the boat on Frontier Siege. Let's see how I can do with dragons! I thought the following cards were possibly undervalued so I bought a playset:
Commune with Lava
Avatar of the Resolute
Icefall Regent
Haven of the Spirit Dragon
Dragon Tempest
Dragonlord's Prerogative
Crater Elemental
Savage Ventmaw
Was also looking at the following but ran out of cash:
Blood-Chin Marauder
Arashin Foremost
Anafenza, Kin-tree Spirit
Assault Formation (maybe...not sure if this deck will actually be viable but it's got a lot of hype and looks fun)
Damnable Pact
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Narset Transcendent 36.70 (+01.75)
Sarkhan Unbroken 21.89 (-0.06)
Deathmist Raptor 14.73 (+4.79)
Ojutai Exemplars 6.97 (-0.29)
Dragonlord Ojutai 6.62 (+0.68)
shorecrasher Elemental 6.29 (+0.06)
Dragon Whisper 6.44 (+0.26)
Dragonlord Dromoka 6.09 (+0.03)
Dragonlord Atarka 5.94 (0.00)
Shaman of Forgotten Ways 5.65 (-0.01)
Dragonlord Silumgar 5.38 (-0.12)
Thunderbreak Regent 5.18 (-0.10)
Atarka's Command 4.85 (+0.11)
[card]Collected Company[card] 4.29 (-0.15)
Ojutai's Command 4.01 (-0.31)
Myth Realized 3.99 (-0.14)
Dragonlord Kolaghan 3.94 (-0.05)
Dromoka's Command 3.87 (+0.43)
Sidisi, Undead Vizier 3.79 (-0.16)
Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit 3.77 (+0.78)
Secure the Wastes 3.66 (-0.06)
Descent of the Dragons 3.39 (-0.04)
Haven of the Spirit Dragon 2.89 (-0.22)
Risen Executioner 2.91 (+0.22)
Kolaghan's Command 2.58 (-0.20)
Avatar of the Resolute 2.51 (+0.04)
Zurgo Bellstriker 2.35 (+0.07)
Silumgar's Command 2.24 (-0.21)
Dragon Tempest 2.29 (0.00)
Assault Formation 1.93 (-0.16)
Commune with Lava 1.86 (-0.11)
Surrack, the Hunt Caller 1.86 (-0.08)
Damnable Pact 1.81 (-0.16)
Clone Legion 1.74 (-0.12)
Stratus Dancer 1.99 (+0.37)
Den Protecter 1.63 (+0.07)
Arashin Foremost 1.59 (+0.02)
Emblem - Narset 1.48 (-0.08)
Icefall Regent 1.47 (-0.06)
Hidden Dragonslayer 1.40 (+0.40)
Ire Shaman 1.25 (-0.06)
Mirror Mockery 1.24 (-0.01)
Radiant Purge 1.19 (-0.10)
Sunscorch Regent 1.11 (-0.17)
Dragonlord's Servant 1.04 (+0.04)
Pre-Release is over and now we look forward to the Release. Deathmist Raptor has shot up, but in my opinion, it will crash.
Here's to hoping you are right! I am kicking myself for not pre-ordering at $6 last week.
What Dark Confidant is to Pain Seer, Vengevine is to __________.
A) Dark Confidant
B) Pain Seer
C) Deathmist Raptor
D) All of the above.
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