Welcome once again to the Running Tally thread, this time for Magic 2015. The purpose of Running Tallies is to keep a visual record of prices and trends of singles in the set, to help players, traders, and dealers get more information and a better feel for what's going on in the market. I've been doing such threads for several years now, and learn a lot from it myself in the process. If you have similar data to post here, please do, especially if it's more than just a static price list. Please keep your comments on the topic of Magic 2015 (singles and overall set) prices and trends.
(previous tallies are located in the following posts: nil)
The card's most recent move is on right. means no movement. is a card that wasn't on the list last update. This is the update's hottest mover. (#) is price in CND incl. shipping here.
20 cards worth $3 or more, and therefore worth opening in a booster pack, tends to be about average. Born and JiN each had 14, Theros began with 38.
9 of the top 10 are mythics, but that isn't all that unusual. Remember "mythics are going to be the weird cards, the awkward cards, the cards you rarely want to see, and the legendary cards - they won't be the chase cards for tournaments!" Heheheh, promises promises promises. That didn't last long. At least they always put a couple crap mythics in each set, so people can point to them as evidence Wizards stuck to their assertions.
I'm going to do an in-depth rundown on my thoughts for each card on the tally on the NEXT update. For now, I'll mention that Nissa in top spot can't remain at $34. I love almost everything green, and often overvalue green cards. With this one, I'm just not seeing it. 5 mana for 3 loyalty is pretty rough, and the abilities are good but not good enough to compensate for that. Garruk, same thing. Once the collectors have their copy this will fall to 1/3 where it is now. 7 mana needs to win you the game, on its own, right away. This doesn't. Ajani at $15 seems to be far more reasonable. 4 loyalty for 4 mana, and 3 solid abilities, now we're talking. He's even splashable. Sliver Hivelord is good enough to be a casual staple going forward, so I'd watch for it to dip as the initial collectors get theirs, and then hold value or gain over time (until reprint). Jace at $12 is even cheaper, and potentially even better. 4 mana for 5 loyalty (wow!) and once again 3 playable abilities. He fills your graveyard, fills your hand, has the ability to protect himself from threats, and the powerful ultimate is quickly achieved. People are likely undervaluing it for the "that's not Jace the Mind Sculptor" and "that's not Timetwister" reasons. (Actually, the ultimate is MUCH better than Timetwister!) Reprints like Urborg and Chord of Calling are likely to continue to drop in price. It will be interesting to see how much play the painlands see. It's a bit strange to me that there are two 6/6 artifact creatures with two upsides and no downsides for in the same set. And what do you know, both are playable! I wonder which will do better in the long run? Hushwing Gryff is a nice card but is likely to fall, as do many hate cards printed for Legacy once the Legacy crowd has had their fill, but it could regain value after the set goes out of print.
Just South of the list sits Soul of Shandalar, Soul of Theros, Soul of Innistrad, Chief Engineer, and Genesis Hydra. A couple of the Slivers and Reclamation Sage seem to be the top uncommons, all at the 75 mark. Commons are pretty poor this time around.
Regarding the new card design, the 1980s process of putting a little foil hologram on the card isn't going to do anything other than make the cards look childish. It didn't stop counterfeiting 30 years ago and definitely won't today. Besides, who would counterfeit anything printed in 2014 and beyond? Wizards is already doing a great job of printing and reprinting everything until it has almost no value. And the border changes are garbage - more room for a dark zone at the bottom, making EVERY card look black. All so that they can put more fine print on each card, such as a THIRD mention of the card's rarity? The first 1 or 2 rarity indicators are plenty. The dark zone makes it look like the cards have no border anymore, like they aren't complete, and adds nothing positive - another redesign that didn't need to happen. If they really want to fix things, fix some of the incorrect wording they still use from back in the days of Alpha and Beta! Like on Gravedigger which "returns" a card from your graveyard to your hand, even though it might not be "returning" to your hand at all. Perhaps it went there from somewhere else, like from your library. What makes it even more ridiculous is that proper wording for this effect has existed all along - they just refuse to use it: ReturnPut target creature card from your graveyard tointo your hand. Now that wasn't so hard, was it Wizards?
NOTE: There are 15 cards in Magic 2015 that can't be found in booster packs. I'm not clear on exactly how they can be obtained, but the end result is that they're quite scarce. Terra Stomper, which normally sells for a quarter, is now a five dollar card thanks to this process. I won't be including any of these cards on the tally for obvious reasons.
Box value is currently higher than anything else in Standard by about ten bucks, but of course that will settle over the next couple months. Below M15 are Ravnica, Theros, Conspiracy, and Journey. Below those are Born and Gatecrash. And way, way below those sits Dragon's Maze, which would need to be worth at least triple its current value to be worthwhile opening for singles - youch.
Things move quickly at this point in the set's lifecycle, so you'll see an update here in 2 to 3 days. Thanks once again for your participation!
The one trend that was very obvious in recent history was Courser of Kruphix.
By the time you had posted the 4th and 5th price rise it was already too late.
This time if anything has spiked twice from the opening prices I'm going to assume that it's a rocket on the way to The Moon and get on board.
I'd like to know who pays the premium for mythic rares that will never see the light of day in a top 8 tournament deck. SCG fixes the prices before release and they just sorta hang there.
Jace and Garruk aren't worth money because they're Jace and Garruk. They need to win games which I just don't see happening.
Overall this is a sweet set for flavour and there are plenty of fun cards design wise but it's not going to break the format how it is and there is a distinct lack of eternal playables.
It seems to be the policy of Wizards that they would rather invent new non-standard legal sets that you have to buy to get modern/legacy staples. This annoys me. It says that those that picked the cards up first time around got to play standard and get cool cards but if you want them you have to buy supplemental products. With my quick rant out of the way I might as well start speculating.
I'm going to focus on rares for now. Mythics have price fluctuations that go backwards so there's little point in speccing on them. Most of the time they can only go down.
It's a Pithing Needle which can be important which new powerful planeswalkers being printed in every set. Also nice that it can block a Lifebane Zombie.
It's a slightly better Immortal Servitude. The fact it can hit BOTH 1 and 2 CMC seems good. Perhaps something to sideboard in for weenies to combat the sideboarding in of Drown in Sorrow.
Good late game mana sink and card advantage engine. He could run good support in a sliver deck. The kind of card that is begging to be abused but will take time to find a way.
Good post there. Just a few notes.
"It gives you a 2 for 1 and the card coming into play can't be countered."
It can be countered by just countering the Hydra which effectively counters both.
"Jace needs to win games which I just don't see happening."
Out of all 4cc planeswalkers ever printed, he has the most loyalty (5). His abilities are very potent. Why exactly will he not see play? How many loyalty should he have for 4 mana, 6? 7?
"Hey look it's a black 1 drop that can do direct damage in a crunch."
There are a few 1 drops that tap to grow each turn, already, and none of them are playable. The direct damage ability is extremely slow, expensive, and only hits creatures. I don't think this is a hidden gem.
"Phyrexian Revoker"
Both Pithing Needle and Phyrexian Revoker have now been reprinted, and weren't worth much before that anyhow. They will both continue to be cheap.
Polymorphist's Jest, Return to the Ranks, and Spirit Bonds do seem to have potential.
It says "when you cast". It's like a heroic trigger, it just happens.
Ability on the stack, hydra countered and goes to graveyard, ability resolves for X.
Jace doesn't draw cards immediately and he doesn't protect you. It's a big waste of turn 4 if you're facing a wall of creatures. Could be useful to mono blue decks that already have some stuff in front of him I guess. It's all about how useful that Boomerang is going to be as obviously it is usable with his high starting loyalty. If your opponent is struggling to get on the board then you can keep bouncing which would probably be annoying with non-haste creatures.
Cruel Sadist isn't too bad as far as one drops goes. I think there might be an Ajani combo in there somewhere.
I wasn't sure about the Revoker. If it wasn't worth much before I guess it's not going to be worth much now.
Just a note: In your introductory paragraph you state, "Please keep your comments on the topic of Journey into Nyx (singles and overall set) prices and trends." (Emphasis mine). Might want to change that up so as to not invite non-M15 commentary.
Lots of cards on here with value. That number will change soon. Surprised by the low value on Jace O.o I sold mine the day of the prerelease for $20; I'm thinking that was a good move on my part. Soul of New Phyrexia feels like it should be higher. I was tempted to move my foil Waste Not but I'm not sure what it will do in the near future, especially after Return to Ravnica has rotated.
I like the way this set looks value-wise. One of the better M sets as of late.
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Yeah this set looks pretty solid overall. I like it!
I too think there is something to be said for Genesis Hydra. It's the only card I pre-ordered and I think it has some room to grow. Someone pointed out in another thread (maybe the huge standard gainers? I forget) how its mechanic is similar to cascade. This is a pretty good observation that more succinctly puts my own thoughts on it.
And I am not impressed by the latest Jace. He might do well still in this powered down meta (I haven't been doing standard lately so I don't know) but I don't see it long term at least. He seems like the "fixed" version of JTMS. Both have the same casting cost... have a card filtering first ability... a bounce ability... and end up at 2 loyalty if you play them and bounce something... but JTMS is waaaay better. I like Ajani and Nissa better myself and it seems from current prices others do to. Time will tell though!
As usual, M15 is a mythic-dominated set:
9 of the top 10 are mythics, but that isn't all that unusual. Remember "mythics are going to be the weird cards, the awkward cards, the cards you rarely want to see, and the legendary cards - they won't be the chase cards for tournaments!" Heheheh, promises promises promises. That didn't last long. At least they always put a couple crap mythics in each set, so people can point to them as evidence Wizards stuck to their assertions.
Mythics are the least frequent card printed in a modern set, it's incredible how little many of them end up being worth, to me. Don't you feel a little childish remaining upset at a business practice that has increased the interest and sales in your favorite hobby year after year? Mythics still are not the backbone of most standard tournament decks! Look at the devotion decks, do you see lists with 20-30 mythics? No. How about Esper, that plays 3 colors surely it must have more mythics than rares! No. RDW? Hahah, no. R/G Monsters must use the best mythicalest creatures right? No. Standard decks are not completely composed of mythic rares as your tirade seems to imply. Can you compete at the highest levels without mythics? No (of course not?). Can you still have fun and play magic without any of them? Yes. They aren't going anywhere but into more magic products. I have collector friends that love showing off their binders of "just mythic rares". They are popular. They work. They haven't done that bad of a job making sure they are good but not too-good.
For someone who spends as much time as you do thinking about, selling, and posting about Magic maybe it's time to just embrace the 2010s?
Other than that minor quibble, nice update and thanks for the tally.
I'd like to know who pays the premium for mythic rares that will never see the light of day in a top 8 tournament deck. SCG fixes the prices before release and they just sorta hang there.
Overall this is a sweet set for flavour and there are plenty of fun cards design wise but it's not going to break the format how it is and there is a distinct lack of eternal playables.
It seems to be the policy of Wizards that they would rather invent new non-standard legal sets that you have to buy to get modern/legacy staples. This annoys me. It says that those that picked the cards up first time around got to play standard and get cool cards but if you want them you have to buy supplemental products. With my quick rant out of the way I might as well start speculating.
I think Star City doesn't randomly set it's prices. My understanding is that as the cards are released, they put up all mythics and rares at the same start value with limited quantities, and as they are bought up, for every so many sold, the price increases, to where they stabilize. So you could buy a crap mythic for $2.00 or a great mythic for $2.00 if you are the first one buying as soon as the card is listed. If the crappy one stops selling at $3.00, then it's a $3.00 card, and if the good one stops selling at $15, then it's a $15 card. Has this practice changed?
Secondly, I'm not sure what all you're looking for from an eternal perspective. How is reprinting Urborg, Chord of Calling, Darksteel Citadel, and others not eternal playable? If anything, I'd say M15 has more eternal playables than every other set in standard!
About Genesis Hydra, it's included as a 1-of in the $25 clash pack that also includes a Courser of Kruphrix, Nykthos, Aetherspouts, and 6 promo cards (including Prognostic Sphinx, Prophet of Kruphrix, and Temple of Mystery). Shouldn't that keep its price down a bit?
About Genesis Hydra, it's included as a 1-of in the $25 clash pack that also includes a Courser of Kruphrix, Nykthos, Aetherspouts, and 6 promo cards (including Prognostic Sphinx, Prophet of Kruphrix, and Temple of Mystery). Shouldn't that keep its price down a bit?
Still, 2.50-3 is a pretty good price for it IMO.
It definitely will help keep it down initially... but if it sees serious play... it will be worth something in 6 months. In fact, people using this logic (it being in the clash pack) might be why it is so low now. Core sets are generally not as opened as other sets... so playable rares in them can often go to $10+. Not saying this one will get there... but seems undervalued at $3 is all.
EDIT: did not realize the clash pack had so much value in it though... not bad!
Yeah, my reading is very good, but thanks
It was a problem with my rules understanding, not my reading. Thanks for that clarification.
That seems to open up some interesting design space. I can think of plenty of new card designs now, that don't say "can't be countered" but are uncounterable. Hmmmm!
Okay, so what is the very best possible play with the Hydra? What do you imagine it accomplishing? Write it out so I can see what might be possible, given a really good hand and amazing topdecks.
Jace doesn't draw cards immediately and he doesn't protect you.
Are we looking at the same card? (Jace, the Living Guildpact)
You're right, he doesn't load your hand up, but he does load your graveyard, and he does set up your draws. Blue should be able to take advantage of that.
And he DOES protect you (and himself) with the boomerang. Planeswalker, artifact, enchantment, or creature causing you grief? It's only a temporary protection but buying yourself a turn in a pinch is great. If you don't need to do that, set up your next draw. And as mentioned, he's the most loyal planeswalker for the price ever printed.
I don't think it's the best Jace or even the best planeswalker in Standard, but it's very playable and I think it's being undervalued. The ultimate is deceivingly powerful. People don't notice it's one-sided: only YOU draw 7 cards.
I'm not interested in your underhanded passive aggressive "compliments", NikoBolas - take it elsewhere please.
"How is reprinting Urborg, Chord of Calling, Darksteel Citadel, and others not eternal playable? If anything, I'd say M15 has more eternal playables than every other set in standard!"
Which "others" are you referring to? If you've got a strong opinion on the topic, why not list them all out? I'd be interested to see a legacy expert's opinion, thanks!
Thanks for the reminder about the Hydra being reprinted in another set already. I guess that will have some effect on the supply and price.
Okay, so what is the very best possible play with the Hydra? What do you imagine it accomplishing? Write it out so I can see what might be possible, given a really good hand and amazing topdecks.
Hitting Xenagos, God of Revels off of the Hydra seems good. Or hitting a planeswalker or pretty much any of the creatures in R/G monsters. Honestly, it has the trademarks of being a good card, but whether or not it takes off, we'll just have to wait and see.
Of course it all relies heavily on Nykthos right now.
I like that it doesn't even have to be a green card. So you can pop out a Sliver Hivelord or Chromanticore if you like. Of course the indestructible not an enchantment creature is much better even without other slivers in your deck. It might just be the finisher mono green needs against Supreme Verdict decks.
I think Slivers could be a thing but the 5 color deck isn't going to work. Casting a 5 color card is dumb. Cheating things into play is a long standing tradition for being one of the most unfair things you can do in MTG.
As usual, M15 is a mythic-dominated set:
9 of the top 10 are mythics, but that isn't all that unusual. Remember "mythics are going to be the weird cards, the awkward cards, the cards you rarely want to see, and the legendary cards - they won't be the chase cards for tournaments!" Heheheh, promises promises promises. That didn't last long. At least they always put a couple crap mythics in each set, so people can point to them as evidence Wizards stuck to their assertions.
Mythics are the least frequent card printed in a modern set, it's incredible how little many of them end up being worth, to me. Don't you feel a little childish remaining upset at a business practice that has increased the interest and sales in your favorite hobby year after year? Mythics still are not the backbone of most standard tournament decks! Look at the devotion decks, do you see lists with 20-30 mythics? No. How about Esper, that plays 3 colors surely it must have more mythics than rares! No. RDW? Hahah, no. R/G Monsters must use the best mythicalest creatures right? No. Standard decks are not completely composed of mythic rares as your tirade seems to imply. Can you compete at the highest levels without mythics? No (of course not?). Can you still have fun and play magic without any of them? Yes. They aren't going anywhere but into more magic products. I have collector friends that love showing off their binders of "just mythic rares". They are popular. They work. They haven't done that bad of a job making sure they are good but not too-good.
For someone who spends as much time as you do thinking about, selling, and posting about Magic maybe it's time to just embrace the 2010s?
Other than that minor quibble, nice update and thanks for the tally.
I agree with most of your points but the last red green monsters deck I played against featured Domri Rade, Xenagos, Garruk, Polukronous, and Stormbreath. So not 100% mythic but 20ish in one deck is a lot.
The card's most recent move is on right. means no movement. is a card that wasn't on the list last update. This is the update's hottest mover. (#) is price in CND incl. shipping here.
Genesis Hydra moved above the $3 level, making 22 cards worth opening in a booster pack - and on the tally.
First off, sorry for the delay. Just as I was making my previous post several days ago, I was getting a call to inform me my grandmother had fallen on her back steps. Since my family is mainly several hours away by car, it was up to me to deal with it. After a few days, a medication change, and some doctors visits and lab work, it was found she had a small break in her wrist. She/we decided since she's 90 years old and basically "coasting till the end", to brace it but not put on a full cast (which would have made it impossible for her to continue to do her own daily care). So she's healing the best she can at home, and now I'm able to return to work, and associated things like the Tally.
Upon doing a full reprice of the set, I noticed a couple major things. One, the set isn't losing value quickly as sets often do in the first few weeks. One example of that is Conspiracy, which VERY quickly has become one of the lower valued sets in print right now. M15 seems to be following the path of M14, which also released with a decent box value and maintained that over the course of the following year. We'll see if M15 continues to follow that path. The other major thing I noticed is that there isn't much position-jostling as we usually see early on. No "hidden gems" are shooting upward (yet), and no "overhyped" cards are dropping like rocks.
Nissa sits way out in front and is holding in the low 30s. Garruk is likewise holding steady in the low 20s, and Ajani is creeping up a little in the teens. Sliver Hivelord is one of those cards that should have casual appear for many years, and isn't likely to be reprinted quickly, so I can understand why it's 13. That said, it may pull back once most Sliver-lovers have their copy, and then regain after the set goes out of print. Jace isn't doing much in 5th spot, but Chord of Calling just below it has been selling briskly for me. I do see it dropping in price to $6 or $7 unless Standard decks massively run it as a 3-of or 4-of. I think part of the price is due to memory of it being a $40 card up until a month ago. It's a great card, but it was $40 because there were no copies on the market, not because it appears in every Legacy deck. I think it will continue to see play in various decks and formats, but with it being reprinted as a rare for another year, the price will be anchored. Liliana moved up above Chandra a bit, as Waste Not drifted lower. The painlands seem to be holding fairly strong right now. Hushwing Gryff is cooling and will probably do so while it is printed, but may shoot up after that in about a year. The Chain Veil doesn't seem like it is attracting players and will probably fall from the tally soon.
So Nissa is starting to fall, currently at $28 low on TCG player and diminishing. Not that this should surprise anyone; she's had very underwhelming performances at the past two SCG opens.
I'm also glad to see that Sliver Hive is currently one of the hottest cards(Though not particularly expensive). I figured it would be. It's a casual favorite, and I know more than a few people who are looking to make modern Slivers work (It popped up on the Legacy open last week, but I think that might be a tad wishful). I will say I'm glad I got my playset and extra early on. I don't anticipate ever getting much lower than it is, but I can certainly see it steadily climbing. Doubly so if it actually does anything in Modern (Even becoming a fringe deck is good enough for a bit of a hike). The price right now is largely set by casual demand methinks, and not competitive demand.
The card's most recent move is on right. means no movement. is a card that wasn't on the list last update. This is the update's hottest mover. (#) is price in CND incl. shipping here.
Hushwing Gryff & The Chain Veil fell below the $3 level, leaving 20 cards worth opening in a booster pack - and on the tally.
My site's down for maintenance and repair at the moment, but I'm still keeping prices updated! I just don't have sales data for the past couple days. Generally, the set is selling well, and has a stable box value much as Journey did. Will it follow Journey's path and remain amongst the highest box values in Standard? So far so good. And the set isn't being opened as much as some sets are (in part due to low hype). As it sits right now, I predict M15 will remain a good buy for those of us who open boxes for singles, over the next 10 months or so.
Nissa seems to be on the rise, up from 29 to 33 in the past couple days. Garruk has stayed stable in the low 20s. Ajani continues to edge higher, from 14 at the start to 17 now. Jace remains pretty soggy at $10 or $11, but that's still good enough to make him the 5th best card in the set. Chord of Calling has been just under $10 since release, though I would expect that to drift slightly lower ($8ish) over the next several months, unless it gets a big uptick in use of course. Liliana, as others have noted, remains hot and has moved up in price a couple bucks, but how long can that go on? This is the 4th (or around there) printing for the card. Urborg seems fairly stable while Perilous Vault does not. Waste Not is fairing pretty well, not having lost any ground since release. Genesis Hydra crept a bit higher this update and I'll be keeping my eye on it. And lastly, the painlands haven't budged yet, and if anything, are currently looking pretty strong. There's a chance the set won't be heavily opened, and some playable rares will do well. I'm reminded again of Journey's Temple of Malady which fetches a healthy ten dollars each. I doubt the painlands will go to ten, I'm just saying they might surprise a few people, we'll see.
(previous tallies are located in the following posts: nil)
As usual, M15 is a mythic-dominated set:
1) Nissa Worldwaker (33)
2) Garruk Apex Predator (22)
3) Ajani Steadfast (15)
4) Sliver Hivelord (13)
5) Jace the Living Guildpact (12)
6) Chord of Calling (9)
7) Soul of New Phyrexia (8)
8) Chandra Pyromaster (7)
9) Liliana Vess (7)
10) Perilous Vault (7)
11) Waste Not (6.5)
12) Urborg Tomb of Yawgmoth (6)
13) Sliver Hive (5.5)
14) Scuttling Doom Engine (4.5)
15) Hushwing Gryff (4)
16) Shivan Reef (4)
17) Battlefield Forge (3.5)
18) The Chain Veil (3.5)
19) Yavimaya Coast (3.5)
20) Caves of Koilos (3)
The card's most recent move is on right. means no movement. is a card that wasn't on the list last update. This is the update's hottest mover. (#) is price in CND incl. shipping here.
20 cards worth $3 or more, and therefore worth opening in a booster pack, tends to be about average. Born and JiN each had 14, Theros began with 38.
9 of the top 10 are mythics, but that isn't all that unusual. Remember "mythics are going to be the weird cards, the awkward cards, the cards you rarely want to see, and the legendary cards - they won't be the chase cards for tournaments!" Heheheh, promises promises promises. That didn't last long. At least they always put a couple crap mythics in each set, so people can point to them as evidence Wizards stuck to their assertions.
I'm going to do an in-depth rundown on my thoughts for each card on the tally on the NEXT update. For now, I'll mention that Nissa in top spot can't remain at $34. I love almost everything green, and often overvalue green cards. With this one, I'm just not seeing it. 5 mana for 3 loyalty is pretty rough, and the abilities are good but not good enough to compensate for that. Garruk, same thing. Once the collectors have their copy this will fall to 1/3 where it is now. 7 mana needs to win you the game, on its own, right away. This doesn't. Ajani at $15 seems to be far more reasonable. 4 loyalty for 4 mana, and 3 solid abilities, now we're talking. He's even splashable. Sliver Hivelord is good enough to be a casual staple going forward, so I'd watch for it to dip as the initial collectors get theirs, and then hold value or gain over time (until reprint). Jace at $12 is even cheaper, and potentially even better. 4 mana for 5 loyalty (wow!) and once again 3 playable abilities. He fills your graveyard, fills your hand, has the ability to protect himself from threats, and the powerful ultimate is quickly achieved. People are likely undervaluing it for the "that's not Jace the Mind Sculptor" and "that's not Timetwister" reasons. (Actually, the ultimate is MUCH better than Timetwister!) Reprints like Urborg and Chord of Calling are likely to continue to drop in price. It will be interesting to see how much play the painlands see. It's a bit strange to me that there are two 6/6 artifact creatures with two upsides and no downsides for in the same set. And what do you know, both are playable! I wonder which will do better in the long run? Hushwing Gryff is a nice card but is likely to fall, as do many hate cards printed for Legacy once the Legacy crowd has had their fill, but it could regain value after the set goes out of print.
Just South of the list sits Soul of Shandalar, Soul of Theros, Soul of Innistrad, Chief Engineer, and Genesis Hydra. A couple of the Slivers and Reclamation Sage seem to be the top uncommons, all at the 75 mark. Commons are pretty poor this time around.
Regarding the new card design, the 1980s process of putting a little foil hologram on the card isn't going to do anything other than make the cards look childish. It didn't stop counterfeiting 30 years ago and definitely won't today. Besides, who would counterfeit anything printed in 2014 and beyond? Wizards is already doing a great job of printing and reprinting everything until it has almost no value. And the border changes are garbage - more room for a dark zone at the bottom, making EVERY card look black. All so that they can put more fine print on each card, such as a THIRD mention of the card's rarity? The first 1 or 2 rarity indicators are plenty. The dark zone makes it look like the cards have no border anymore, like they aren't complete, and adds nothing positive - another redesign that didn't need to happen. If they really want to fix things, fix some of the incorrect wording they still use from back in the days of Alpha and Beta! Like on Gravedigger which "returns" a card from your graveyard to your hand, even though it might not be "returning" to your hand at all. Perhaps it went there from somewhere else, like from your library. What makes it even more ridiculous is that proper wording for this effect has existed all along - they just refuse to use it:
ReturnPut target creature card from your graveyardtointo your hand. Now that wasn't so hard, was it Wizards?NOTE: There are 15 cards in Magic 2015 that can't be found in booster packs. I'm not clear on exactly how they can be obtained, but the end result is that they're quite scarce. Terra Stomper, which normally sells for a quarter, is now a five dollar card thanks to this process. I won't be including any of these cards on the tally for obvious reasons.
Box value is currently higher than anything else in Standard by about ten bucks, but of course that will settle over the next couple months. Below M15 are Ravnica, Theros, Conspiracy, and Journey. Below those are Born and Gatecrash. And way, way below those sits Dragon's Maze, which would need to be worth at least triple its current value to be worthwhile opening for singles - youch.
Things move quickly at this point in the set's lifecycle, so you'll see an update here in 2 to 3 days. Thanks once again for your participation!
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By the time you had posted the 4th and 5th price rise it was already too late.
This time if anything has spiked twice from the opening prices I'm going to assume that it's a rocket on the way to The Moon and get on board.
I'd like to know who pays the premium for mythic rares that will never see the light of day in a top 8 tournament deck. SCG fixes the prices before release and they just sorta hang there.
Jace and Garruk aren't worth money because they're Jace and Garruk. They need to win games which I just don't see happening.
Overall this is a sweet set for flavour and there are plenty of fun cards design wise but it's not going to break the format how it is and there is a distinct lack of eternal playables.
It seems to be the policy of Wizards that they would rather invent new non-standard legal sets that you have to buy to get modern/legacy staples. This annoys me. It says that those that picked the cards up first time around got to play standard and get cool cards but if you want them you have to buy supplemental products. With my quick rant out of the way I might as well start speculating.
I'm going to focus on rares for now. Mythics have price fluctuations that go backwards so there's little point in speccing on them. Most of the time they can only go down.
Genesis Hydra
It is seeing play. That's all it needs to do to go up in price for now. It gives you a 2 for 1 and the card coming into play can't be countered.
Chasm Skulker
I'm not sure how you abuse this card but there has to be a way. Anything that can replace itself on death has great power.
Cruel Sadist
Hey look it's a black 1 drop that can do direct damage in a crunch.
"What?" "You stabbed my Master of Waves" *TILT*
Goblin Kaboomist
All you need is the slightest of pumps to his toughness and he becomes insane. Good synergy with Shrapnel Blast.
Hornet Nest
Just because Chording the card in when you're facing some massive non-trample non-flying threat is sooooo cool.
Hushwing Gryff
It hoses Gary, nuff said.
Phyrexian Revoker
It's a Pithing Needle which can be important which new powerful planeswalkers being printed in every set. Also nice that it can block a Lifebane Zombie.
Polymorphist's Jest
This can be such a blowout. Imagine getting all your fatties blocked by the 1/1s Elspeth makes, not fun.
Preeminent Captain
Puts Brimaz onto the battlefield attacking. Yes please.
Return to the Ranks
It's a slightly better Immortal Servitude. The fact it can hit BOTH 1 and 2 CMC seems good. Perhaps something to sideboard in for weenies to combat the sideboarding in of Drown in Sorrow.
Spirit Bonds
Yes it's mana intensive but being able to block removal on board seems strong.
Sunblade Elf
Hey what's an uncommon doing here? Say hello to the new Wild Nacatl / Kird Ape.
Yisan, The Wanderer Bard
Good late game mana sink and card advantage engine. He could run good support in a sliver deck. The kind of card that is begging to be abused but will take time to find a way.
"It gives you a 2 for 1 and the card coming into play can't be countered."
It can be countered by just countering the Hydra which effectively counters both.
"Jace needs to win games which I just don't see happening."
Out of all 4cc planeswalkers ever printed, he has the most loyalty (5). His abilities are very potent. Why exactly will he not see play? How many loyalty should he have for 4 mana, 6? 7?
"Hey look it's a black 1 drop that can do direct damage in a crunch."
There are a few 1 drops that tap to grow each turn, already, and none of them are playable. The direct damage ability is extremely slow, expensive, and only hits creatures. I don't think this is a hidden gem.
"Phyrexian Revoker"
Both Pithing Needle and Phyrexian Revoker have now been reprinted, and weren't worth much before that anyhow. They will both continue to be cheap.
Polymorphist's Jest, Return to the Ranks, and Spirit Bonds do seem to have potential.
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It says "when you cast". It's like a heroic trigger, it just happens.
Ability on the stack, hydra countered and goes to graveyard, ability resolves for X.
Jace doesn't draw cards immediately and he doesn't protect you. It's a big waste of turn 4 if you're facing a wall of creatures. Could be useful to mono blue decks that already have some stuff in front of him I guess. It's all about how useful that Boomerang is going to be as obviously it is usable with his high starting loyalty. If your opponent is struggling to get on the board then you can keep bouncing which would probably be annoying with non-haste creatures.
Cruel Sadist isn't too bad as far as one drops goes. I think there might be an Ajani combo in there somewhere.
I wasn't sure about the Revoker. If it wasn't worth much before I guess it's not going to be worth much now.
Lots of cards on here with value. That number will change soon. Surprised by the low value on Jace O.o I sold mine the day of the prerelease for $20; I'm thinking that was a good move on my part. Soul of New Phyrexia feels like it should be higher. I was tempted to move my foil Waste Not but I'm not sure what it will do in the near future, especially after Return to Ravnica has rotated.
I like the way this set looks value-wise. One of the better M sets as of late.
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
I too think there is something to be said for Genesis Hydra. It's the only card I pre-ordered and I think it has some room to grow. Someone pointed out in another thread (maybe the huge standard gainers? I forget) how its mechanic is similar to cascade. This is a pretty good observation that more succinctly puts my own thoughts on it.
And I am not impressed by the latest Jace. He might do well still in this powered down meta (I haven't been doing standard lately so I don't know) but I don't see it long term at least. He seems like the "fixed" version of JTMS. Both have the same casting cost... have a card filtering first ability... a bounce ability... and end up at 2 loyalty if you play them and bounce something... but JTMS is waaaay better. I like Ajani and Nissa better myself and it seems from current prices others do to. Time will tell though!
Mythics are the least frequent card printed in a modern set, it's incredible how little many of them end up being worth, to me. Don't you feel a little childish remaining upset at a business practice that has increased the interest and sales in your favorite hobby year after year? Mythics still are not the backbone of most standard tournament decks! Look at the devotion decks, do you see lists with 20-30 mythics? No. How about Esper, that plays 3 colors surely it must have more mythics than rares! No. RDW? Hahah, no. R/G Monsters must use the best mythicalest creatures right? No. Standard decks are not completely composed of mythic rares as your tirade seems to imply. Can you compete at the highest levels without mythics? No (of course not?). Can you still have fun and play magic without any of them? Yes. They aren't going anywhere but into more magic products. I have collector friends that love showing off their binders of "just mythic rares". They are popular. They work. They haven't done that bad of a job making sure they are good but not too-good.
For someone who spends as much time as you do thinking about, selling, and posting about Magic maybe it's time to just embrace the 2010s?
Other than that minor quibble, nice update and thanks for the tally.
I think Star City doesn't randomly set it's prices. My understanding is that as the cards are released, they put up all mythics and rares at the same start value with limited quantities, and as they are bought up, for every so many sold, the price increases, to where they stabilize. So you could buy a crap mythic for $2.00 or a great mythic for $2.00 if you are the first one buying as soon as the card is listed. If the crappy one stops selling at $3.00, then it's a $3.00 card, and if the good one stops selling at $15, then it's a $15 card. Has this practice changed?
Secondly, I'm not sure what all you're looking for from an eternal perspective. How is reprinting Urborg, Chord of Calling, Darksteel Citadel, and others not eternal playable? If anything, I'd say M15 has more eternal playables than every other set in standard!
Still, 2.50-3 is a pretty good price for it IMO.
It definitely will help keep it down initially... but if it sees serious play... it will be worth something in 6 months. In fact, people using this logic (it being in the clash pack) might be why it is so low now. Core sets are generally not as opened as other sets... so playable rares in them can often go to $10+. Not saying this one will get there... but seems undervalued at $3 is all.
EDIT: did not realize the clash pack had so much value in it though... not bad!
Yeah, my reading is very good, but thanks
It was a problem with my rules understanding, not my reading. Thanks for that clarification.
That seems to open up some interesting design space. I can think of plenty of new card designs now, that don't say "can't be countered" but are uncounterable. Hmmmm!
Okay, so what is the very best possible play with the Hydra? What do you imagine it accomplishing? Write it out so I can see what might be possible, given a really good hand and amazing topdecks.
Are we looking at the same card? (Jace, the Living Guildpact)
You're right, he doesn't load your hand up, but he does load your graveyard, and he does set up your draws. Blue should be able to take advantage of that.
And he DOES protect you (and himself) with the boomerang. Planeswalker, artifact, enchantment, or creature causing you grief? It's only a temporary protection but buying yourself a turn in a pinch is great. If you don't need to do that, set up your next draw. And as mentioned, he's the most loyal planeswalker for the price ever printed.
I don't think it's the best Jace or even the best planeswalker in Standard, but it's very playable and I think it's being undervalued. The ultimate is deceivingly powerful. People don't notice it's one-sided: only YOU draw 7 cards.
I'm not interested in your underhanded passive aggressive "compliments", NikoBolas - take it elsewhere please.
"How is reprinting Urborg, Chord of Calling, Darksteel Citadel, and others not eternal playable? If anything, I'd say M15 has more eternal playables than every other set in standard!"
Which "others" are you referring to? If you've got a strong opinion on the topic, why not list them all out? I'd be interested to see a legacy expert's opinion, thanks!
Thanks for the reminder about the Hydra being reprinted in another set already. I guess that will have some effect on the supply and price.
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Hitting Xenagos, God of Revels off of the Hydra seems good. Or hitting a planeswalker or pretty much any of the creatures in R/G monsters. Honestly, it has the trademarks of being a good card, but whether or not it takes off, we'll just have to wait and see.
R Norin the Wary: I've Got a Bad Feeling About This
UG Thrasios & Kydele: Knowledge is Power
RG Borborygmos Enraged: The Breaking of the World
BG The Gitrog Monster: All Glory to the Hypnotoad
WUR Zedruu the Greathearted: Endless Possibilities, One Outcome
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain: What's Dead May Never Die
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Of course it all relies heavily on Nykthos right now.
I like that it doesn't even have to be a green card. So you can pop out a Sliver Hivelord or Chromanticore if you like. Of course the indestructible not an enchantment creature is much better even without other slivers in your deck. It might just be the finisher mono green needs against Supreme Verdict decks.
I think Slivers could be a thing but the 5 color deck isn't going to work. Casting a 5 color card is dumb. Cheating things into play is a long standing tradition for being one of the most unfair things you can do in MTG.
I agree with most of your points but the last red green monsters deck I played against featured Domri Rade, Xenagos, Garruk, Polukronous, and Stormbreath. So not 100% mythic but 20ish in one deck is a lot.
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
Some early gentle shuffling:
1) Nissa Worldwaker (32)
2) Garruk Apex Predator (22)
3) Ajani Steadfast (16)
4) Sliver Hivelord (13)
5) Jace the Living Guildpact (12)
6) Chord of Calling (9)
7) Soul of New Phyrexia (8.5)
8) Liliana Vess (8)
9) Chandra Pyromaster (7)
10) Perilous Vault (6)
11) Urborg Tomb of Yawgmoth (6)
12) Waste Not (6)
13) Llanowar Wastes (5)
14) Scuttling Doom Engine (5)
15) Sliver Hive (5)
16) Shivan Reef (4)
17) Genesis Hydra (3.5)
18) Yavimaya Coast (3.5)
19) Battlefield Forge (3.25)
20) Caves of Koilos (3)
21) Hushwing Gryff (3)
22) The Chain Veil (3)
The card's most recent move is on right. means no movement. is a card that wasn't on the list last update. This is the update's hottest mover. (#) is price in CND incl. shipping here.
Genesis Hydra moved above the $3 level, making 22 cards worth opening in a booster pack - and on the tally.
First off, sorry for the delay. Just as I was making my previous post several days ago, I was getting a call to inform me my grandmother had fallen on her back steps. Since my family is mainly several hours away by car, it was up to me to deal with it. After a few days, a medication change, and some doctors visits and lab work, it was found she had a small break in her wrist. She/we decided since she's 90 years old and basically "coasting till the end", to brace it but not put on a full cast (which would have made it impossible for her to continue to do her own daily care). So she's healing the best she can at home, and now I'm able to return to work, and associated things like the Tally.
Upon doing a full reprice of the set, I noticed a couple major things. One, the set isn't losing value quickly as sets often do in the first few weeks. One example of that is Conspiracy, which VERY quickly has become one of the lower valued sets in print right now. M15 seems to be following the path of M14, which also released with a decent box value and maintained that over the course of the following year. We'll see if M15 continues to follow that path. The other major thing I noticed is that there isn't much position-jostling as we usually see early on. No "hidden gems" are shooting upward (yet), and no "overhyped" cards are dropping like rocks.
Nissa sits way out in front and is holding in the low 30s. Garruk is likewise holding steady in the low 20s, and Ajani is creeping up a little in the teens. Sliver Hivelord is one of those cards that should have casual appear for many years, and isn't likely to be reprinted quickly, so I can understand why it's 13. That said, it may pull back once most Sliver-lovers have their copy, and then regain after the set goes out of print. Jace isn't doing much in 5th spot, but Chord of Calling just below it has been selling briskly for me. I do see it dropping in price to $6 or $7 unless Standard decks massively run it as a 3-of or 4-of. I think part of the price is due to memory of it being a $40 card up until a month ago. It's a great card, but it was $40 because there were no copies on the market, not because it appears in every Legacy deck. I think it will continue to see play in various decks and formats, but with it being reprinted as a rare for another year, the price will be anchored. Liliana moved up above Chandra a bit, as Waste Not drifted lower. The painlands seem to be holding fairly strong right now. Hushwing Gryff is cooling and will probably do so while it is printed, but may shoot up after that in about a year. The Chain Veil doesn't seem like it is attracting players and will probably fall from the tally soon.
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I'm also glad to see that Sliver Hive is currently one of the hottest cards(Though not particularly expensive). I figured it would be. It's a casual favorite, and I know more than a few people who are looking to make modern Slivers work (It popped up on the Legacy open last week, but I think that might be a tad wishful). I will say I'm glad I got my playset and extra early on. I don't anticipate ever getting much lower than it is, but I can certainly see it steadily climbing. Doubly so if it actually does anything in Modern (Even becoming a fringe deck is good enough for a bit of a hike). The price right now is largely set by casual demand methinks, and not competitive demand.
Black cards are on the rise:
1) Nissa Worldwaker (33) /
2) Garruk Apex Predator (22) /
3) Ajani Steadfast (17) /
4) Sliver Hivelord (12) /
5) Jace the Living Guildpact (11) /
6) Chord of Calling (9) /
7) Liliana Vess (9) /
8) Soul of New Phyrexia (8) /
9) Chandra Pyromaster (7) /
10) Urborg Tomb of Yawgmoth (5.5) /
11) Waste Not (5.5) /
12) Llanowar Wastes (5) /
13) Perilous Vault (5) /
14) Scuttling Doom Engine (5) /
15) Sliver Hive (5) /
16) Genesis Hydra (4) /
17) Shivan Reef (4) /
18) Battlefield Forge (3.5) /
19) Yavimaya Coast (3.5) /
20) Caves of Koilos (3) /
The card's most recent move is on right. means no movement. is a card that wasn't on the list last update. This is the update's hottest mover. (#) is price in CND incl. shipping here.
Hushwing Gryff & The Chain Veil fell below the $3 level, leaving 20 cards worth opening in a booster pack - and on the tally.
My site's down for maintenance and repair at the moment, but I'm still keeping prices updated! I just don't have sales data for the past couple days. Generally, the set is selling well, and has a stable box value much as Journey did. Will it follow Journey's path and remain amongst the highest box values in Standard? So far so good. And the set isn't being opened as much as some sets are (in part due to low hype). As it sits right now, I predict M15 will remain a good buy for those of us who open boxes for singles, over the next 10 months or so.
Nissa seems to be on the rise, up from 29 to 33 in the past couple days. Garruk has stayed stable in the low 20s. Ajani continues to edge higher, from 14 at the start to 17 now. Jace remains pretty soggy at $10 or $11, but that's still good enough to make him the 5th best card in the set. Chord of Calling has been just under $10 since release, though I would expect that to drift slightly lower ($8ish) over the next several months, unless it gets a big uptick in use of course. Liliana, as others have noted, remains hot and has moved up in price a couple bucks, but how long can that go on? This is the 4th (or around there) printing for the card. Urborg seems fairly stable while Perilous Vault does not. Waste Not is fairing pretty well, not having lost any ground since release. Genesis Hydra crept a bit higher this update and I'll be keeping my eye on it. And lastly, the painlands haven't budged yet, and if anything, are currently looking pretty strong. There's a chance the set won't be heavily opened, and some playable rares will do well. I'm reminded again of Journey's Temple of Malady which fetches a healthy ten dollars each. I doubt the painlands will go to ten, I'm just saying they might surprise a few people, we'll see.
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