Alright, this tally post is going to be a bit weird from my perspective, it's my first post on the new site. I'm not impressed with the "Curse" thing at all, and I was totally blindsided by it. I only use Marketplace, Custom Card Creation, and Rumor Mill. I have bookmarks taking me right there, so I never see any other part of the website, and somehow I ignored the little blurb about the upcoming changes. How we can suddenly be expected to create a third-party account just to use an account we've already got, I'll never understand. Will be soon need another account as well, and then another? And now, every post (13000 or something) I ever made on this website is frozen in time? I can't delete or edit them now? That's a MASSIVE security breach right there. I need to be able to remove those posts, and not have them locked and exposed for all eternity. Yikes. I'm still kinda reeling, but the Running Tally must go on...
Anyway, on to business. If the moderators want to insert one of their posts before this one for their use, please feel free. And as always, thanks for the work you do to keep things smooth around here, and for helping keep the running tallies' titles up to date.
(previous tallies are located in the following posts: nil)
Bored of the Gods SUCKS:
1) Brimaz King of Oreskos (27)
2) Kiora the Crashing Wave (18)
3) Xenagos God of Revels (18)
4) Mogis God of Slaughter (12)
5) Ephara God of the Polis (9)
6) Phenax God of Deception (9)
7) Spirit of the Labyrinth (8)
8) Flame-Wreathed Phoenix (7)
9) Karametra God of Harvests (7)
10) Pain Seer (6)
11) Courser of Kruphix (4.5)
12) Temple of Enlightenment (4.5)
13) Temple of Malice (4)
14) Temple of Plenty (4)
The card's most recent move is on right. means no movement. is a card that wasn't on the list last update. This is the update's hottest mover. (#) is price in CND incl. shipping here.
14 cards worth $3 or more, and therefore worth opening in a booster pack, makes this a very short tally. In fact, it's one of the shortest. Theros began with 38.
Brimaz is top dog right off the bat, and may hold that title, but I expect the pricetag to drop toward $15. It's a 2 or 3-of in most decks due to being legendary and the mana cost isn't as cheap or splashable as many 4-ofs. It's undercosted on paper, nice body and potentially a nice effect when it works. But even if you imagine it as a 4 power attacker, that's nothing special nowadays for 3 mana. Kiora, I'm not sure of, because I don't personally play with Planeswalkers so I have trouble judging it. I think it'll come down to $10 because it's 2 colours, low loyalty, and the effects only work in certain builds. Next come the 5 gods, starting with Xenagos. Sure, it gives a pump effect the turn it comes down, but doesn't grant haste the first turn unless you had 8+ mana available, in which case you should have just won outright. Its effect is decent, but can't even target himself, and as a creature he's pretty small for a red/green for 5 mana. Shouldn't red/green be the biggest "god"? He's pretty underwhelming. Mogis is bigger AND cheaper, and his effect is quite potent, not to mention a win condition in itself. I think he'll claim top god spot. Ephara is also cheaper and just as big as Xenagos, and the effect is quite powerful - potentially drawing a card every turn. This could also appreciate from the $8 level. Phenax is the worst god, with only 4 power, and for 5 mana. His ability requires creatures to tap, not something very popular with players, and he's not even good at doing the only thing he does, which is mill cards. No thanks. Karametra is currently cheapest of the gods but should rise in relation to the others, at least Phenax. Her "rampant growth" ability is comparable to Ephara's card draw for each creature played, although she costs 1 more, and the +2 toughness really doesn't matter a lot on an indestructible creature. All in all, the gods are sloppy and dumb, much like the Theros gods. Spirit of the Labyrinth is beautiful design, another 3/1 for 1C, with a useful ability. Will see main deck and sideboard play in all formats, so watch this card. Phoenix is good on paper but it's red, so expect it to sink hard and fast. Red cards never have value, no matter how good they are. Pain Seer looks like it's good, but I think it's just another 2/2 for 2 with an ability you can't control, isn't reliable, and requires either a tap/untap combo engine or your opponent never having a creature. Should come down from $6. Courser looks okay to me, but isn't very strong as a creature for the cost, gets killed by Disenchant, reveals all your draws, and only gains you a max of 1 life per turn. I don't see it going up unless a deck finds a way to abuse it. The Temples will probably hover around $3 to $4, as the Theros temples did.
Just South of the tally is Eidolon of Countless Battles which doesn't impress me much, Hero of Iroas which is solid but narrow in the decks it goes in, Satyr Firedancer which is red, and Chromanticore which is casual and also narrow. An undervalued card IMO is Gild, since when is 4 splashable mana expensive for "exile target creature", not to mention the Gold token (which is cool just in itself) that can help you ramp mana? Stuck at 4 swamps with a Blood Baron in hand? Exile their best guy and next turn lay your Baron out. I think it will see at least casual play as great removal, and if black decks do well, Standard use too. Fated Retribution is the only instant "destroy all creatures" card but also hits planeswalkers? And sometimes has Scry... should be worth more than a buck. Astral Cornucopia impresses me. Whelming Wave returns all creatures to hands for 4, so what if it has some weird flavour about Krakens? That's potent, ignore the Kraken stuff. Drown in Sorrow, Bile Blight, Fanatic of Xenagos, Kiora's Follower, and Searing Blood are some nice uncommons that will get played, but there are no commons standing out as valuable yet.
I don't have any box value data yet, but just on a hunch, I'd say Born is pretty darn weak. Probably Dragon's Maze level of weak, or very close. Some nice uncommons in the $1 to $2 range help it from being a complete disaster.
I'm going to update prices (and this thread) regularly over the next few weeks. First update will be within 48h.
Yeah, just a really underwhelming set I feel. This set, this block, moreso even than RTR block just feels like a compilation of cycles and things meant for limited play and I really do not care for it. There's only 1 card I really want from the set for my own personal use in Lazav, and that's Phenax, and even then I honestly don't know how badly I want to try him out let alone run him long term. It's a repeatable mill effect, which is nice, but considering most of my creatures are evasive, I'm going to be swinging with them far more often than not, meaning I may only have the occasional dude, either Phenax himself or something like Consuming Aberration, which often gets big but without some aid, usually via a sword, rarely actually gets to swing, to actually make use of the ability. That said, I do think he's getting more flack than he deserves solely based on the fact that people are disappointed that Wizards went the obvious route, again, in regards to what UB does and made a mill god like we all knew they were going to. Mill has potential to be strong, and Phenax is actually quite good for it.
I was contemplating Pain Seer as a second Dark Confidant for my deck, but I don't need another draw engine, and he's honestly not all that great. He takes far too long to actually do what Bob does, and he makes himself far more vulnerable in order to do so unless you have some form of tap/untap engine going, but that's just running bad cards to make him not suck.
Brimaz is definitely one of the better cards in the set, but I think at the current price he's not worth it. He'll come down, but likely stay the most valuable card in the set for some time. I think most of the money in him is simply because the set as a whole has nothing else really worth opening. Again, he's good, but he doesn't offer $40 worth of value IMO.
The other gods are alright. I dig Xenagos and Mogis. Ephara is meh. Karametra I am considering for when I get around to building Saffi, but I dunno. Not sure how to evaluate them long term.
Kiora is going to crash more than her wave. She's just not very good and I think the hype around her is just..laughable.
And I don't care for the scry lands at all, but they're going to follow the same pattern as the last sets temples.
Whether anyone thinks Kiora is good or not doesn't matter in this case. She is a mythic planeswalker in a set that's not going to get opened much after this month. She defends herself, gains card and board advantage and has a very reachable, monstrous ultimate! She will go up in price, no doubt.
Gild is currently under priced IMHO. Black exile is rare and very strong. Sorcery speed is the only thing holding it's price down. Courser of Kruphix is insane. Yes he reveals your draw, but with him in play you can safely attack any UW control player with your Mutavaults knowing that if they charm it, it just comes back into play untapped. It helps with Domri as well.
Xenagos is for real. There is no reason anyone should be able to attack with a 10/10 Pulokranos on turn 4!
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"Talkin outta turn....That's a paddlin'. Starin' at my sandals....That's a paddlin'. Paddlin' the school canoe....You better believe that's a paddlin'!" --Jasper
(previous tallies are located in the following posts: 1)
Early moves can often be the start of trends:
1) Brimaz King of Oreskos (27)
2) Kiora the Crashing Wave (17)
3) Xenagos God of Revels (15)
4) Mogis God of Slaughter (13)
5) Ephara God of the Polis (10)
6) Spirit of the Labyrinth (8)
7) Karametra God of Harvests (7)
8) Phenax God of Deception (7)
9) Flame-Wreathed Phoenix (5.5)
10) Courser of Kruphix (5)
11) Pain Seer (4.5)
12) Temple of Enlightenment (4.5)
13) Temple of Malice (4)
14) Temple of Plenty (4)
The card's most recent move is on right. means no movement. is a card that wasn't on the list last update. This is the update's hottest mover. (#) is price in CND incl. shipping here.
There are still 14 cards worth $3 or more, and therefore worth opening in a booster pack.
Only 36 hours since the initial post, but a few moves are noteworthy. Brimaz is holding his pricetag at 27 but I haven't sold a single copy, and eBay says 32 is a more reasonable price. I think it'll come down soon enough. Kiora has shown early cooling already but I think will take a while to hit bottom, which might be around $10 unless a deck that breaks her shows up soon. No, 9/9 tokens are not a serious win condition. Xenagos lost $3 already but holds third place - can anyone explain the appeal here? Jonski says a 10/10 could attack as early as turn 4 with this in play, with a bit of setup, but what's the point? The thing with this is it's a permanent and you want to use it turn after turn, not as a +5/+5 sorcery costing 3RG. If you only get one or two activations, why not play Giant Growths instead? Even if it becomes a creature it's a legendary indestructible 6/5 for 5 in two colours, not special. Mogis and Ephara have stayed about where they were in price. Spirit of Labyrinth did too, allowing Phenax to drop below it on the tally as it shed a couple bucks. After Phenax comes Phoenix, which was the worst dropper in % terms, losing over 20% of its price. Courser is one to watch. I thought it would hold or drop but already seems to be gathering steam for a move above $5. Pain Seer predictably fell sharply to sit somewhere around the value of the Temples, which are selling rather briskly.
What's wrong with Ephara, NGW? She's tied for the cheapest god, is in strong colours, provides card draw every turn for free if you're playing creatures, and is one of the biggest gods? It appears to me to be the strongest along with Mogis, who is himself a win condition even when not a creature.
EDIT: Sorry about the spaces between the and the . Apparently smilies don't work without spaces between them and any other character, even a period. I'll post a note about that in the bug report zone.
Ephara is played in color combo not known for its creature count. It's a control color combo that usually just played AEtherling as the creature threat with Mutavaults.
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"Talkin outta turn....That's a paddlin'. Starin' at my sandals....That's a paddlin'. Paddlin' the school canoe....You better believe that's a paddlin'!" --Jasper
Props to your Headline - "Bored of the Gods SUCKS".
This set feels overall meh. Much like DGM sold because of a couple cards and the chance to get shocks, this will sell for the Gods, Brimaz, and the Temples. Not a good investment/value/purchase at this time.
Thanks for the work, but I have to say, you are not properly valuing Xenagos. He is a permanent, hard to deal with, gigantic pump effect. The 10/10 on turn 4 requires the barest minimum of setup (a single elvish mystic or caryatid, which R/G decks are already playing). To be fair, lets say against a mono-black type deck, they kill your polukranos during attack phase. Ok, sure, that's gonna happen. But, they have to have a removal in hand EVERY time you play a fatty from now on or lose half their life total. If they don't find one by the next turn, it's game over. Combined with things like Domri/Chandra/Courser, you will have enough gas to overpower their removal easily enough. Against U/W control, they rarely even have instant speed removal other then the occasional charm, which just delays one turn. Verdict doesn't deal with him, and only deals with the creature after you got a giant hit in.
Instead of thinking of Xenagos as a big Giant Growth, you should be thinking of it as a repeatable Berserk effect that occasionally becomes it's own creature as well. It's a more expensive, and more powerful, Fires of Yavimaya.
Maybe it's just me, coming as a mostly casual player, but so far I am enjoying the set and it has a lot of multiplayer and EDH appeal. That being said, yeah, it does seem pretty damn weak, and I doubt it will hold more than 12 "crackable" rares after the next month or two. But some cards, such as Eidolon of Countless Battles, seem really sharp if it can find a good shell.
I did end up pre-ordering a box, because for me it looked like a snazzy set. Time will tell if it was worthwhile, and based on what I got from it I thought I got a bit of a donkey outside of a Brimaz, but now that I see the top 14 I realize I cracked open 9 of the 14, and got doubles of the Spirit of the Labyrinth, which looks to me like one of the rares that SHOULD rise, less because of Standard and more because of Modern and Legacy (?), I guess I can't complain.
As for a pet card, Arbiter of the Ideal looks fun, but does require a blue deck that is more permanent than spell heavy, which usually runs counter to its style. Still, that effect is awfully potent. Not saying it will ever be a money rare, but it just seems like something amusing can be done with it.
That and I opened three of the bloody things in my box :P. Guess I found this set's rare that's following me XD.
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Decks
Commander
Ezuri, Renegade Leader (Aggro/Combo - Favorite) Skullbriar, the Walking Grave (Sac and Grave hijinks) Azusa, Lost but Seeking (Landfall hijinks) Kaalia of the Vast (Heavily modded)
Ephara is played in color combo not known for its creature count. It's a control color combo that usually just played AEtherling as the creature threat with Mutavaults.
Why is it played in a deck where it will never be a creature, and its ability will never trigger? That sounds like the last place it would ever be played.
I'd play this in a creature rush deck, drawing 1 or 2 extra cards every turn, and quickly turning it into a 6/5 indestructible beatstick for 4.
you are not properly valuing Xenagos. He is a permanent, hard to deal with, gigantic pump effect. The 10/10 on turn 4 requires the barest minimum of setup..
It requires 2 colours of mana, lots of land in your hand, one mana creature, and in this case two specific creatures, both of which are legendary, so you don't really want to be drawing multiples. Go ahead, put together the deck, let me know.
It's a more expensive, and more powerful, Fires of Yavimaya.
I agree, but since when does a rush deck want a MORE expensive Fires? It's for Timmy, who dreams of 20/20 trample haste fatties on turn 9 with the right hand.
Anyhow, I'm noticing Kiora holding value right now, possible edging up toward $20. I really don't like the card, but it seems that somebody does
Pain Seer is collapsing into a heap of its own doodoo.
I think that Kiora's ticking up because there's been a Maze's End shell that plays her as a central piece to a Turbo-fog shell. Regardless of the competitiveness (or lack thereof) of the deck as a whole, there are players who both like annoying their opponents with Turbo-Fog and/or playing win conditions that don't involve getting in the red zone. The fact that Kiora does three things Turbo-Fog already wants to be doing (playing more lands, drawing more cards, and preventing damage) and can provide a threat in her own right gives her a certain niche appeal.
She also "bubbles" Mutavault, which has thus far become the go-to answer to knock off a Planeswalker after a Supreme Verdict hits the board. Even if she doesn't pan out as competitive, there's a fair amount of reason for her price to be in the $20 range. She is the only planeswalker in the set, and that alone counts for something.
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Went to a new shop from a friend's recommendation, DQ'ed for willful violation of CR 100.6b.
Why is it played in a deck where it will never be a creature, and its ability will never trigger? That sounds like the last place it would ever be played.
He didn't say ephara was played in control decks, he said no one is playing U/W creature decks, therefore she doesn't have a home currently. Once someone proves a U/W creature deck can be good, then she'll see play.
I'd play this in a creature rush deck, drawing 1 or 2 extra cards every turn, and quickly turning it into a 6/5 indestructible beatstick for 4.
This is exponentially harder to setup then Xenagos. You play her to draw cards, getting to 7 devotion without winning the game already is highly improbable.
It requires 2 colours of mana, lots of land in your hand, one mana creature, and in this case two specific creatures, both of which are legendary, so you don't really want to be drawing multiples. Go ahead, put together the deck, let me know.
Polukranos isn't the only fatty in the deck, and yes you can play 4x of Polukranos, it doesn't matter that it's legendary. Plus, Ghor Clan Rampagers, Fanatic of Xenagos, Kalonian Hydra, Arbor Colossus, etc.. There's plenty of fatties that win the game in two turns with Xenagos out. It applies so much pressure that any time your opponent doesn't have an answer right then, you win.
MANY people, a bunch of pros in fact, have put together this deck and have been talking about it for the last week. Xenagos is the real deal, end of story. If you think playing Ephara and turning her into a creature is reasonable but Xenagos turning every fatty in your deck into huge threats that win the game almost immediately is not, then you are just hating on R/G. The only reason he won't stay high value, is if some other deck ends up keeping the R/G deck out of competition. Mono-U was good at that before, and it appears to be falling off, but if somehow it sticks around it could limit R/G's popularity.
The problem with the Kiora/turbo fog plan is that most of the fogs in standard don't protect Planeswalkers. I don't see her being anything more than a 4-mana explore.
I think having Hero's Downfall and Dreadbore in the format will somewhat suppress Planeswalker's prices from now on. Of course that also depends on whether B is a strong color in the format. At the moment with black being a relatively popular color, Kiora's prices shouldn't hit the heights we have seen in the past with walkers.
Hehehe, posting 'end of story' doesn't end the story, nice try though. There were a bunch of tournaments this weekend, feel free to post the winning Xenagos decklists. "Lots of people are saying it's good" is a nice anecdote but the price hasn't moved, in fact it's drifting lower right now. This is a price thread. So put up, or.... you know.
I don't think it's true that you win the game with damage before Ephara becomes a creature, but even if that were the case, it has an effect without becoming a creature - refilling your hand. There are playable white and blue creatures in Standard, aren't there?
Ephara, God of the Polis comes down turn 4, when you have 3 weenies in play and you're putting on pressure. From then on, you draw at least 1 extra card each turn, and she's indestructible. Next turn, she's 6/5.
Dramatic Rescue and Azorius Charm are good backup. Deputy of Acquittals saves anything they try to kill on their turn, and with Ephara draws you another extra card. Loses to Drown in Sorrow, maybe throw in a few Thassa's Rebuff? I dunno, I don't play blue. I'm just musing, so I won't say that Ephara is the real deal, end of story.
I have seen testing with Kiora and actually results at the first major standard event with this set. Kiora does work in this format Brian Bran Duin top 16ed with 3 copies of this card in his Bant Planeswalkers deck. He said he ultimated her in 2 games in the first 3 rounds, against well known decks like Mono-Blue and Black Devotion.
I always get a kick out of people ripping into perfectly reasonable cards before the set has time to stew. NO ONE thought Devotion was a thing when the cards were being spoiled back before Theros came out, and now Devotion practically rules standard with an iron fist.
I remember people saying about Theros, "Man the only good cards in the set are Thoughtseize and maybe Stormbreath Dragon what a garbage set!"
Well to be fair, the Running Tally for Theros started with 38 cards, so it wasn't seen as garbage (at least in this part of the forum) at the beginning. I called it "moderate" from the get go and still feel that way about it. Similar to M14, which was seen largely as garbage, but the value in it has held up and I just cracked another case the other day, to keep my inventory levels up. The real stinkers right now are Dragon's Maze and Born, but like you said, it's early days. Some surprises might show up. Also, we can't forget that it has half a dozen playable uncommons worth $1 to $2, which helps things.
I do think an Ephara deck is possible. Blue/white creatures (especially weenies) are abundant right now and the support is there for a deck similar to "Blue Skies" back in the days of Fires decks, if anyone remembers that. Weenies with evasion and tricks, huge mid range with hand refillers and just a touch of control. Ephara is tied for cheapest god, 2nd biggest god, and if you build around her the ability says "draw at least an extra card every turn".
Mogis is the other I'm watching. Tied for cheapest god, is the largest god, and is a win condition even when not a creature. Come on!
Ephara is also the only god to get 2 devotion counters off the most prolific removal spell in the format Detention Sphere. Despite this card showing up as a 4 of in every control deck containing blue and white on the planet in standard, and a few random aggro decks like Esper Humans I am amazed this card has not gone up at all in value.
Anyways I could easily see a u/w deck that utilizes her I also think Eidolon of Countless Battles has potential. I just like to give a set a month or so before I really cast my final verdict. I mean Future Sight was seen as a horrible set and now a ton of cards from it are expensive as heck.
I also would not be surprised to see Courser of Kruphix and/or Herald of Torment start showing up in standard decks, both cards are extremely well costed and have a lot of synergy with other cards.
His price, and all of the Gods, are not increasing because people opened more of them during prerelease weekend then they normally will. Each pre-seeded pack had a 1 in 8 chance for that respective God, just like Theros. So, compared to the other mythics in the set you have more of them floating around at the moment then in a normal pack distribution. Also, you generally only want 2 of any of the Gods in a decklist that uses them, so supply is higher then demand. Ephara IS a good card, but there's more then enough around to satisfy demand currently. The $10 retail price tag is correct for now, it'll take that U/W decklist completely taking over a spot in tier 1 for it to budge her price. Which, is entirely possible if the rumors out of Japan are to be believed.
However, every G/R monster deck needing to immediately slot 2 Xenagods into their list drove his price up initially. Again, it's settling slightly because everyone opened a ton of him over last weekend, not because his power level isn't there. Supply caught up with demand on him temporarily. Whereas supply is more then demand on all the other Gods currently.
Saying that his price is drifting downwards slightly from his pre-order price, the week of release, is a sign that the card isn't good is a pretty silly point to make. Pretty much every card drifts down from their pre-order prices in the first week or two. Based on the last 12 hours on ebay, current prices on Ephara and Mogis have dropped more, proportionally, then Xenagod compared to your last tally. Ephara is going for $7ish, Mogis for $10, Xenagod for $15. You can almost get a playset of Ephara AND Mogis for the price of a playset of Xenagod.
Oh Enzie....R_E is going to read your posts however he sees fit.
G?R Monsters is a deck I've been playing for months now and the inclusion of Xenegod has made this deck so much more potent. Every creature that hits the board with him in play is that much better. He lives to Supreme Verdict and allows you to haste out a creature the following turn for big damage. I play 2 in the main and don't think I'd run more than that. I think his price will stay where it is for a while due to that fact...more than 2 seems like dead cards in the late game.
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"Talkin outta turn....That's a paddlin'. Starin' at my sandals....That's a paddlin'. Paddlin' the school canoe....You better believe that's a paddlin'!" --Jasper
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So Long TBGTE
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Anyway, on to business. If the moderators want to insert one of their posts before this one for their use, please feel free. And as always, thanks for the work you do to keep things smooth around here, and for helping keep the running tallies' titles up to date.
(previous tallies are located in the following posts: nil)
Bored of the Gods SUCKS:
1) Brimaz King of Oreskos (27)
2) Kiora the Crashing Wave (18)
3) Xenagos God of Revels (18)
4) Mogis God of Slaughter (12)
5) Ephara God of the Polis (9)
6) Phenax God of Deception (9)
7) Spirit of the Labyrinth (8)
8) Flame-Wreathed Phoenix (7)
9) Karametra God of Harvests (7)
10) Pain Seer (6)
11) Courser of Kruphix (4.5)
12) Temple of Enlightenment (4.5)
13) Temple of Malice (4)
14) Temple of Plenty (4)
The card's most recent move is on right. means no movement. is a card that wasn't on the list last update. This is the update's hottest mover. (#) is price in CND incl. shipping here.
14 cards worth $3 or more, and therefore worth opening in a booster pack, makes this a very short tally. In fact, it's one of the shortest. Theros began with 38.
Brimaz is top dog right off the bat, and may hold that title, but I expect the pricetag to drop toward $15. It's a 2 or 3-of in most decks due to being legendary and the mana cost isn't as cheap or splashable as many 4-ofs. It's undercosted on paper, nice body and potentially a nice effect when it works. But even if you imagine it as a 4 power attacker, that's nothing special nowadays for 3 mana. Kiora, I'm not sure of, because I don't personally play with Planeswalkers so I have trouble judging it. I think it'll come down to $10 because it's 2 colours, low loyalty, and the effects only work in certain builds. Next come the 5 gods, starting with Xenagos. Sure, it gives a pump effect the turn it comes down, but doesn't grant haste the first turn unless you had 8+ mana available, in which case you should have just won outright. Its effect is decent, but can't even target himself, and as a creature he's pretty small for a red/green for 5 mana. Shouldn't red/green be the biggest "god"? He's pretty underwhelming. Mogis is bigger AND cheaper, and his effect is quite potent, not to mention a win condition in itself. I think he'll claim top god spot. Ephara is also cheaper and just as big as Xenagos, and the effect is quite powerful - potentially drawing a card every turn. This could also appreciate from the $8 level. Phenax is the worst god, with only 4 power, and for 5 mana. His ability requires creatures to tap, not something very popular with players, and he's not even good at doing the only thing he does, which is mill cards. No thanks. Karametra is currently cheapest of the gods but should rise in relation to the others, at least Phenax. Her "rampant growth" ability is comparable to Ephara's card draw for each creature played, although she costs 1 more, and the +2 toughness really doesn't matter a lot on an indestructible creature. All in all, the gods are sloppy and dumb, much like the Theros gods. Spirit of the Labyrinth is beautiful design, another 3/1 for 1C, with a useful ability. Will see main deck and sideboard play in all formats, so watch this card. Phoenix is good on paper but it's red, so expect it to sink hard and fast. Red cards never have value, no matter how good they are. Pain Seer looks like it's good, but I think it's just another 2/2 for 2 with an ability you can't control, isn't reliable, and requires either a tap/untap combo engine or your opponent never having a creature. Should come down from $6. Courser looks okay to me, but isn't very strong as a creature for the cost, gets killed by Disenchant, reveals all your draws, and only gains you a max of 1 life per turn. I don't see it going up unless a deck finds a way to abuse it. The Temples will probably hover around $3 to $4, as the Theros temples did.
Just South of the tally is Eidolon of Countless Battles which doesn't impress me much, Hero of Iroas which is solid but narrow in the decks it goes in, Satyr Firedancer which is red, and Chromanticore which is casual and also narrow. An undervalued card IMO is Gild, since when is 4 splashable mana expensive for "exile target creature", not to mention the Gold token (which is cool just in itself) that can help you ramp mana? Stuck at 4 swamps with a Blood Baron in hand? Exile their best guy and next turn lay your Baron out. I think it will see at least casual play as great removal, and if black decks do well, Standard use too. Fated Retribution is the only instant "destroy all creatures" card but also hits planeswalkers? And sometimes has Scry... should be worth more than a buck. Astral Cornucopia impresses me. Whelming Wave returns all creatures to hands for 4, so what if it has some weird flavour about Krakens? That's potent, ignore the Kraken stuff. Drown in Sorrow, Bile Blight, Fanatic of Xenagos, Kiora's Follower, and Searing Blood are some nice uncommons that will get played, but there are no commons standing out as valuable yet.
I don't have any box value data yet, but just on a hunch, I'd say Born is pretty darn weak. Probably Dragon's Maze level of weak, or very close. Some nice uncommons in the $1 to $2 range help it from being a complete disaster.
I'm going to update prices (and this thread) regularly over the next few weeks. First update will be within 48h.
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I was contemplating Pain Seer as a second Dark Confidant for my deck, but I don't need another draw engine, and he's honestly not all that great. He takes far too long to actually do what Bob does, and he makes himself far more vulnerable in order to do so unless you have some form of tap/untap engine going, but that's just running bad cards to make him not suck.
Brimaz is definitely one of the better cards in the set, but I think at the current price he's not worth it. He'll come down, but likely stay the most valuable card in the set for some time. I think most of the money in him is simply because the set as a whole has nothing else really worth opening. Again, he's good, but he doesn't offer $40 worth of value IMO.
The other gods are alright. I dig Xenagos and Mogis. Ephara is meh. Karametra I am considering for when I get around to building Saffi, but I dunno. Not sure how to evaluate them long term.
Kiora is going to crash more than her wave. She's just not very good and I think the hype around her is just..laughable.
And I don't care for the scry lands at all, but they're going to follow the same pattern as the last sets temples.
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Gild is currently under priced IMHO. Black exile is rare and very strong. Sorcery speed is the only thing holding it's price down. Courser of Kruphix is insane. Yes he reveals your draw, but with him in play you can safely attack any UW control player with your Mutavaults knowing that if they charm it, it just comes back into play untapped. It helps with Domri as well.
Xenagos is for real. There is no reason anyone should be able to attack with a 10/10 Pulokranos on turn 4!
Early moves can often be the start of trends:
1) Brimaz King of Oreskos (27)
2) Kiora the Crashing Wave (17)
3) Xenagos God of Revels (15)
4) Mogis God of Slaughter (13)
5) Ephara God of the Polis (10)
6) Spirit of the Labyrinth (8)
7) Karametra God of Harvests (7)
8) Phenax God of Deception (7)
9) Flame-Wreathed Phoenix (5.5)
10) Courser of Kruphix (5)
11) Pain Seer (4.5)
12) Temple of Enlightenment (4.5)
13) Temple of Malice (4)
14) Temple of Plenty (4)
The card's most recent move is on right. means no movement. is a card that wasn't on the list last update. This is the update's hottest mover. (#) is price in CND incl. shipping here.
There are still 14 cards worth $3 or more, and therefore worth opening in a booster pack.
Only 36 hours since the initial post, but a few moves are noteworthy. Brimaz is holding his pricetag at 27 but I haven't sold a single copy, and eBay says 32 is a more reasonable price. I think it'll come down soon enough. Kiora has shown early cooling already but I think will take a while to hit bottom, which might be around $10 unless a deck that breaks her shows up soon. No, 9/9 tokens are not a serious win condition. Xenagos lost $3 already but holds third place - can anyone explain the appeal here? Jonski says a 10/10 could attack as early as turn 4 with this in play, with a bit of setup, but what's the point? The thing with this is it's a permanent and you want to use it turn after turn, not as a +5/+5 sorcery costing 3RG. If you only get one or two activations, why not play Giant Growths instead? Even if it becomes a creature it's a legendary indestructible 6/5 for 5 in two colours, not special. Mogis and Ephara have stayed about where they were in price. Spirit of Labyrinth did too, allowing Phenax to drop below it on the tally as it shed a couple bucks. After Phenax comes Phoenix, which was the worst dropper in % terms, losing over 20% of its price. Courser is one to watch. I thought it would hold or drop but already seems to be gathering steam for a move above $5. Pain Seer predictably fell sharply to sit somewhere around the value of the Temples, which are selling rather briskly.
What's wrong with Ephara, NGW? She's tied for the cheapest god, is in strong colours, provides card draw every turn for free if you're playing creatures, and is one of the biggest gods? It appears to me to be the strongest along with Mogis, who is himself a win condition even when not a creature.
EDIT: Sorry about the spaces between the and the . Apparently smilies don't work without spaces between them and any other character, even a period. I'll post a note about that in the bug report zone.
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This set feels overall meh. Much like DGM sold because of a couple cards and the chance to get shocks, this will sell for the Gods, Brimaz, and the Temples. Not a good investment/value/purchase at this time.
I think Kiora is a little under rated but will fall similar to Xenogas or Real Zerek, unless a bang control/ maze's end deck surfaces.
I think the gods are all headed for $5 or lower.
Instead of thinking of Xenagos as a big Giant Growth, you should be thinking of it as a repeatable Berserk effect that occasionally becomes it's own creature as well. It's a more expensive, and more powerful, Fires of Yavimaya.
I did end up pre-ordering a box, because for me it looked like a snazzy set. Time will tell if it was worthwhile, and based on what I got from it I thought I got a bit of a donkey outside of a Brimaz, but now that I see the top 14 I realize I cracked open 9 of the 14, and got doubles of the Spirit of the Labyrinth, which looks to me like one of the rares that SHOULD rise, less because of Standard and more because of Modern and Legacy (?), I guess I can't complain.
As for a pet card, Arbiter of the Ideal looks fun, but does require a blue deck that is more permanent than spell heavy, which usually runs counter to its style. Still, that effect is awfully potent. Not saying it will ever be a money rare, but it just seems like something amusing can be done with it.
That and I opened three of the bloody things in my box :P. Guess I found this set's rare that's following me XD.
Commander
Ezuri, Renegade Leader (Aggro/Combo - Favorite)
Skullbriar, the Walking Grave (Sac and Grave hijinks)
Azusa, Lost but Seeking (Landfall hijinks)
Kaalia of the Vast (Heavily modded)
Standard
Waiting for Innistrad...
Extended
Hah!
Modern
Living End Cascade (RGB)
Legacy
Burn
Vintage
None
Casual
WB Aggro-Control
Green Stompy
Pink Floyd (UWr Wall Control)
Lunch Box (Fatty ramp)
D-Bag (White Control)
Level 13 Task Mage
Why is it played in a deck where it will never be a creature, and its ability will never trigger? That sounds like the last place it would ever be played.
I'd play this in a creature rush deck, drawing 1 or 2 extra cards every turn, and quickly turning it into a 6/5 indestructible beatstick for 4.
It requires 2 colours of mana, lots of land in your hand, one mana creature, and in this case two specific creatures, both of which are legendary, so you don't really want to be drawing multiples. Go ahead, put together the deck, let me know.
I don't really think of it that way, that's what Jonski described it as, I was responding to him.
I agree, but since when does a rush deck want a MORE expensive Fires? It's for Timmy, who dreams of 20/20 trample haste fatties on turn 9 with the right hand.
Anyhow, I'm noticing Kiora holding value right now, possible edging up toward $20. I really don't like the card, but it seems that somebody does
Pain Seer is collapsing into a heap of its own doodoo.
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She also "bubbles" Mutavault, which has thus far become the go-to answer to knock off a Planeswalker after a Supreme Verdict hits the board. Even if she doesn't pan out as competitive, there's a fair amount of reason for her price to be in the $20 range. She is the only planeswalker in the set, and that alone counts for something.
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Have played duals? I have PucaPoints for them!
(Credit to DarkNightCavalier)
$tandard: Too poor.
Modern:
- GW Birthing Pod(?)
Legacy:
- UWR Delver
He didn't say ephara was played in control decks, he said no one is playing U/W creature decks, therefore she doesn't have a home currently. Once someone proves a U/W creature deck can be good, then she'll see play.
This is exponentially harder to setup then Xenagos. You play her to draw cards, getting to 7 devotion without winning the game already is highly improbable.
Polukranos isn't the only fatty in the deck, and yes you can play 4x of Polukranos, it doesn't matter that it's legendary. Plus, Ghor Clan Rampagers, Fanatic of Xenagos, Kalonian Hydra, Arbor Colossus, etc.. There's plenty of fatties that win the game in two turns with Xenagos out. It applies so much pressure that any time your opponent doesn't have an answer right then, you win.
MANY people, a bunch of pros in fact, have put together this deck and have been talking about it for the last week. Xenagos is the real deal, end of story. If you think playing Ephara and turning her into a creature is reasonable but Xenagos turning every fatty in your deck into huge threats that win the game almost immediately is not, then you are just hating on R/G. The only reason he won't stay high value, is if some other deck ends up keeping the R/G deck out of competition. Mono-U was good at that before, and it appears to be falling off, but if somehow it sticks around it could limit R/G's popularity.
Rancored Elf will cancel your order if prices go up. Read about him and other shady vendors here.
My Trade Thread!
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[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
Hehehe, posting 'end of story' doesn't end the story, nice try though. There were a bunch of tournaments this weekend, feel free to post the winning Xenagos decklists. "Lots of people are saying it's good" is a nice anecdote but the price hasn't moved, in fact it's drifting lower right now. This is a price thread. So put up, or.... you know.
I don't think it's true that you win the game with damage before Ephara becomes a creature, but even if that were the case, it has an effect without becoming a creature - refilling your hand. There are playable white and blue creatures in Standard, aren't there?
Cloudfin Raptor, Boros Elite, Judge's Familiar, Battlewise Hoplite, Daring Skyjek, Faerie Impostor, Fencing Ace, Imposing Sovereign, Incursion Specialist, Leonin Snarecaster, Loyal Pegasus, New Prahv Guildmage, Nyxborn Shieldmate, Precinct Captain, Soldier of the Pantheon, Spirit of the Labyrinth, Tidebinder Mage, Banisher Priest, Eidolon of Countless Battles, Wall of Frost, and Lyev Skyknight come to mind as synergistic white and/or blue creatures that might work.
Ephara, God of the Polis comes down turn 4, when you have 3 weenies in play and you're putting on pressure. From then on, you draw at least 1 extra card each turn, and she's indestructible. Next turn, she's 6/5.
Dramatic Rescue and Azorius Charm are good backup. Deputy of Acquittals saves anything they try to kill on their turn, and with Ephara draws you another extra card. Loses to Drown in Sorrow, maybe throw in a few Thassa's Rebuff? I dunno, I don't play blue. I'm just musing, so I won't say that Ephara is the real deal, end of story.
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I always get a kick out of people ripping into perfectly reasonable cards before the set has time to stew. NO ONE thought Devotion was a thing when the cards were being spoiled back before Theros came out, and now Devotion practically rules standard with an iron fist.
I remember people saying about Theros, "Man the only good cards in the set are Thoughtseize and maybe Stormbreath Dragon what a garbage set!"
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I do think an Ephara deck is possible. Blue/white creatures (especially weenies) are abundant right now and the support is there for a deck similar to "Blue Skies" back in the days of Fires decks, if anyone remembers that. Weenies with evasion and tricks, huge mid range with hand refillers and just a touch of control. Ephara is tied for cheapest god, 2nd biggest god, and if you build around her the ability says "draw at least an extra card every turn".
Mogis is the other I'm watching. Tied for cheapest god, is the largest god, and is a win condition even when not a creature. Come on!
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Anyways I could easily see a u/w deck that utilizes her I also think Eidolon of Countless Battles has potential. I just like to give a set a month or so before I really cast my final verdict. I mean Future Sight was seen as a horrible set and now a ton of cards from it are expensive as heck.
I also would not be surprised to see Courser of Kruphix and/or Herald of Torment start showing up in standard decks, both cards are extremely well costed and have a lot of synergy with other cards.
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http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/deckshow.php?&t[C1]=1&start_date=02/08/2014&end_date=02/09/2014&event_ID=19
His price, and all of the Gods, are not increasing because people opened more of them during prerelease weekend then they normally will. Each pre-seeded pack had a 1 in 8 chance for that respective God, just like Theros. So, compared to the other mythics in the set you have more of them floating around at the moment then in a normal pack distribution. Also, you generally only want 2 of any of the Gods in a decklist that uses them, so supply is higher then demand. Ephara IS a good card, but there's more then enough around to satisfy demand currently. The $10 retail price tag is correct for now, it'll take that U/W decklist completely taking over a spot in tier 1 for it to budge her price. Which, is entirely possible if the rumors out of Japan are to be believed.
However, every G/R monster deck needing to immediately slot 2 Xenagods into their list drove his price up initially. Again, it's settling slightly because everyone opened a ton of him over last weekend, not because his power level isn't there. Supply caught up with demand on him temporarily. Whereas supply is more then demand on all the other Gods currently.
Saying that his price is drifting downwards slightly from his pre-order price, the week of release, is a sign that the card isn't good is a pretty silly point to make. Pretty much every card drifts down from their pre-order prices in the first week or two. Based on the last 12 hours on ebay, current prices on Ephara and Mogis have dropped more, proportionally, then Xenagod compared to your last tally. Ephara is going for $7ish, Mogis for $10, Xenagod for $15. You can almost get a playset of Ephara AND Mogis for the price of a playset of Xenagod.
G?R Monsters is a deck I've been playing for months now and the inclusion of Xenegod has made this deck so much more potent. Every creature that hits the board with him in play is that much better. He lives to Supreme Verdict and allows you to haste out a creature the following turn for big damage. I play 2 in the main and don't think I'd run more than that. I think his price will stay where it is for a while due to that fact...more than 2 seems like dead cards in the late game.