I have the chance to purchase an Unlimited Black Lotus. Curious if it is real or not. Any help is greatly appreciated as I do not have any experience in purchasing Unlimited cards or know what to look for.
Edit: added 3 additional pictures. What are some specific close-up pics of the card I should ask for?
So, thank you for putting in pictures. However, the resolution on them is nowhere nearly good enough for us to tell if they are fake or not. I'd recommend taking some scans of the card instead of pictures with a cell phone or camera. Additionally, Beckett Graded Cases don't look anything like what is in the pictures. That's..... odd to say the least.
/edit - so one concerning thing is that you can do a serial # lookup at Beckett Grading Services. That number comes back as a black lotus, but beta, with a 10 center, 9.0 corner, 9.5 edges, 10.0 surfaces and final of 9.5.
The fact that there is a serial number that doesn't match the original makes me highly suspicious that it's fake.
A picture of the card that's in focus might be nice ...
What's the deal? You're buying this from some dude online? There really aren't any photos that he can take that will prove that it's genuine. If you have the opportunity to examine it yourself in person, you can do the rosette test, the bend test (CAREFULLY!) and the light test. Those are pretty decent. If the card is in as good condition as he claims (Did he crack a PSA slab and have the records engraved on the clock??), then he should be able to have it graded again for a 9. That goes a long way towards authentication. You can also look up that record number on PSA's website, and it should confirm that he had A Lotus graded at some point.
OK, so I got curious and tried it. It doesn't show up on PSA's site, so it's probably a BGS number. You need to be a member to look up BGS reports, and I'm not nor am I willing to create a burner account to satiate my curiosity, but there's your next step.
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So, thank you for putting in pictures. However, the resolution on them is nowhere nearly good enough for us to tell if they are fake or not. I'd recommend taking some scans of the card instead of pictures with a cell phone or camera. Additionally, Beckett Graded Cases don't look anything like what is in the pictures. That's..... odd to say the least.
/edit - so one concerning thing is that you can do a serial # lookup at Beckett Grading Services. That number comes back as a black lotus, but beta, with a 10 center, 9.0 corner, 9.5 edges, 10.0 surfaces and final of 9.5.
The fact that there is a serial number that doesn't match the original makes me highly suspicious that it's fake.
I've seen similar clocks on eBay. You can probably find them in any trophy place. Personally, I think they're incredibly tacky. Even if you put a sports card in one. There is absolutely nothing about this clock that says, "Magic," in any shape or form.
The fact that he even had it graded, the cracked the slab then paid even more money to put it in a crummy clock and engraving?! Even if the card isn't fake, like what the above quote says, I'd, at the bare minimum, question why he didn't keep it in the slab. I bet the story will stink.
Yes, I found it online. He said he won it at a BGS tournament 6 years ago in Bentonville, AR. Thanks so much for the suggestions, I will create a BGS account and check out the serial number.
Given all the inconsistencies, and given that the asking price is WAY below what the card normally goes for these days (looking at ebay, it looks like closer to $3,000+ for one in such supposedly good condition), I would say its all but assured that the card is fake. I would tell the seller that you are interested, but that you would need the assurance for such a large purchase as a black lotus, that the card is in fact the real deal, and his best bet would be to send it in to BGS or PSA to be graded and put in one of their slabs accordingly and then once he gets it back, with the authenticity confirmed, you would be more than happy to purchase it, and that you would even offer a higher amount than the asking price once he has done so for the extra time and cost to do so.
So he sent this back to me when I asked him about why the serial number doesn't match.
This right here is all you need to run far and run fast from this deal. Professional graders as everyone know do not attribute a card to a set in which it does not belong, just because that card originally appeared in a different earlier set.
Given all the inconsistencies, and given that the asking price is WAY below what the card normally goes for these days (looking at ebay, it looks like closer to $3,000+ for one in such supposedly good condition), I would say its all but assured that the card is fake. I would tell the seller that you are interested, but that you would need the assurance for such a large purchase as a black lotus, that the card is in fact the real deal, and his best bet would be to send it in to BGS or PSA to be graded and put in one of their slabs accordingly and then once he gets it back, with the authenticity confirmed, you would be more than happy to purchase it, and that you would even offer a higher amount than the asking price once he has done so for the extra time and cost to do so.
100% agree with Jeff at this point in the game. Blurry photos, questionable provenance, and a price that seems too good to be true? Have him get it regraded.
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So he sent this back to me when I asked him about why the serial number doesn't match.
Bullpucky, that screenshot smells so bad I thought my cellphone was equipped with Smel-o-stink. He completely side stepped the question with a **** answer. That kind of mistake, you would expect it to come back as Alpha, because, you know, that's where it appeared originally.
Just walk away. But if you want it that bad do as the others suggest and get him to regrade it with BGS and no matter what, blacklist him.
Also, no one has mentioned yet he claims to have won it 6 years ago, specifically AT a BGS tournament, but the BGS report that corresponds to that ID number says it was graded Sept 2016. So according to the seller, it was won at a BGS event in 2011, it was presumably not graded until 6 months ago, then removed from its officially graded slab to put in a clock.
Also, no one seems to have pointed out that the SCORES attributed to that ID number don't match the scores on the plaque. So not only did he crack it from the official slab to put it into a clock, the clock it was put into had the wrong scores.
OP, please post a follow up. I have to assume you passed on the card but am curious if this moron had any other equally dubious stories.
Are you guys joking? I can't believe I finished reading this entire thread without a single proper response.
It has a white border, which means it's Unlimited.
It has rounded edges, which means it's Alpha.
Alpha is not Unlimited, therefore the card is fake.
Also, 1/2/3ed cards don't have a glossy back like that.
Everyone probably subscribed to the same methodology that I did: "Oh wow, that picture is horrible! I'm not even going to try to pick out visual details on that card."
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Edit: added 3 additional pictures. What are some specific close-up pics of the card I should ask for?
/edit - so one concerning thing is that you can do a serial # lookup at Beckett Grading Services. That number comes back as a black lotus, but beta, with a 10 center, 9.0 corner, 9.5 edges, 10.0 surfaces and final of 9.5.
The fact that there is a serial number that doesn't match the original makes me highly suspicious that it's fake.
What's the deal? You're buying this from some dude online? There really aren't any photos that he can take that will prove that it's genuine. If you have the opportunity to examine it yourself in person, you can do the rosette test, the bend test (CAREFULLY!) and the light test. Those are pretty decent. If the card is in as good condition as he claims (Did he crack a PSA slab and have the records engraved on the clock??), then he should be able to have it graded again for a 9. That goes a long way towards authentication. You can also look up that record number on PSA's website, and it should confirm that he had A Lotus graded at some point.
OK, so I got curious and tried it. It doesn't show up on PSA's site, so it's probably a BGS number. You need to be a member to look up BGS reports, and I'm not nor am I willing to create a burner account to satiate my curiosity, but there's your next step.
I've seen similar clocks on eBay. You can probably find them in any trophy place. Personally, I think they're incredibly tacky. Even if you put a sports card in one. There is absolutely nothing about this clock that says, "Magic," in any shape or form.
The fact that he even had it graded, the cracked the slab then paid even more money to put it in a crummy clock and engraving?! Even if the card isn't fake, like what the above quote says, I'd, at the bare minimum, question why he didn't keep it in the slab. I bet the story will stink.
... I don't know whether he's trying to con you, or if he's just clueless himself.
What's he asking for this particular piece?
This right here is all you need to run far and run fast from this deal. Professional graders as everyone know do not attribute a card to a set in which it does not belong, just because that card originally appeared in a different earlier set.
100% agree with Jeff at this point in the game. Blurry photos, questionable provenance, and a price that seems too good to be true? Have him get it regraded.
Bullpucky, that screenshot smells so bad I thought my cellphone was equipped with Smel-o-stink. He completely side stepped the question with a **** answer. That kind of mistake, you would expect it to come back as Alpha, because, you know, that's where it appeared originally.
Just walk away. But if you want it that bad do as the others suggest and get him to regrade it with BGS and no matter what, blacklist him.
Seriously, walk away.
Yeah, no one who actually owned a graded Lotus would talk like this.
It's a trick.
Get an axe.
Honestly, I'm not 100% convinced of its veracity or lack thereof, but I have serious doubts and Vreenak is just too perfect.
Also, no one seems to have pointed out that the SCORES attributed to that ID number don't match the scores on the plaque. So not only did he crack it from the official slab to put it into a clock, the clock it was put into had the wrong scores.
OP, please post a follow up. I have to assume you passed on the card but am curious if this moron had any other equally dubious stories.
It has a white border, which means it's Unlimited.
It has rounded edges, which means it's Alpha.
Alpha is not Unlimited, therefore the card is fake.
Also, 1/2/3ed cards don't have a glossy back like that.
Everyone probably subscribed to the same methodology that I did: "Oh wow, that picture is horrible! I'm not even going to try to pick out visual details on that card."