Now I'm going to make a sweeping generalization here. The Magic community is losing their collective minds over this card.
We haven't seen hype like this for a long time.
$59.99 sold out on SCG at the time of this post.
I guess I just don't understand it. Seems like a sure loser. Will be interesting to track where the bottom is.
Wasn't Kozilek's Return preselling for $25 or more? Chandra has the planeswalker bump - JTMS went from reasonable to stupid, so all planeswalkers start out too expensive so that stores won't lose money on them. Then she's got 4 abilities, and that's YUGE, so of course she's going to be more just in case.
Not saying that she's a bad card, but she's so obviously the "Red Mind Sculptor" that it's not even funny. Tack on art by one of Magic's hottest new artists, and yeah, that's a formula for lots of hype.
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At very least it will be a format staple. It will be jammed into every competitive standard deck. One of its plus abilities makes it a two Cmc planeswalker. It's legit hype. I'm not sure about legacy play but this card is pushed harder that any planeswalker in a long time
+1 not card advantage. You can't draw lands and you can't save anything for later. So playing reactive spells is a big no no. Straight up that pins her down to aggro decks.
+1 more red mana? I already have to make my mana base heavily red to cast her. Sure I guess it's nice if I want cast some big gearhulks or Eldrazi titans.
-3 same ability as Sarkhan, was useful but hardly game breaking.
-7 Doesn't win immediately but it does put you very close especially if you have the burn spells.
The only synergy I see is modern burn. Maybe a little utility in modern Jund.
New standard staple? Why because jamming a heavy splash of red into every deck is possible with standard mana bases? No you'll need to be playing an actual red deck. That means you need good red cards to play supporting roles. I guess my biggest concern is seeing a weak burn package in standard.
Perhaps I'm being too cautious about this and perhaps I just don't see red as a viable color for the decks I like to play but it really feels like something that is restricted in how it can be played and isn't just something that can be awesome in a vacuum. To me looking deeper I can see the restrictions on it.
Psychology of missing the boat on Liliana. Some people are buying in purely because they're scared that Chandra might be $100 after the first pro tour. Overhyped for sure.
I agree, there's a lot of overhype for this card, but there is also a fair deal of promise too. I think when the price does start to fall, it won't fall much.
Where is the bottom though? Where Liliana is now? $45-$50?
I feel like Eldrich Moon will be an under opened set and Kaladesh will not. Eldrich Moon was released with Eternal Masters and Conspiracy 2 right afterwards. Magic Origins was also in this July dead zone which contributed to the price of baby Jace.
Also in the comparison it must be noted EMN is top heavy. Kaladesh might end up being top heavy too but to me the overall power level looks good and it has modern playable first print rare dual lands.
Is she a bad card? No she's the main character in the story and as such they've made her a card the will see play. You just need to go back to the magic economics of how many packs people are going to open and how value is distributed through a large standard set where the power level of the mythic rares is fairly well distributed.
The second ability of adding double red to the mana pool is being underrated. It also adds loyalty instead of subtracting it which is crazy. I always loved koth of the hammer's -2 ability.
The card is good, no doubt. I dare say it's probably going to be downright amazing in Standard. That's enough to keep a Mythic above $20.00 any day of the week. It may also be playable in Modern, maaaaybe fringe playable in Legacy.
I suspect this card reacts to rotation like Baby Jace did, though: a drop off from $60.00 down to $30.00 or below.
Absolutely, I can't imagine Chandra now commanding a price tag over $30 because of these kaladesh inventions. Similarly, fastlands will be a solid $5 baseline give or take a dollar or two depending on certain color combinations.
Absolutely, I can't imagine Chandra now commanding a price tag over $30 because of these kaladesh inventions. Similarly, fastlands will be a solid $5 baseline give or take a dollar or two depending on certain color combinations.
Yeah the fast lands are going to be staples in modern and the current standard. Getting the right ones though depends heavily on whether people are playing standard or modern. I think UR looks really weak in standard at the moment even though the land is probably one of the more popular mana combinations.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Chandra is very good.
Dunno about all the crazyness, and the 50 dollars price tag, but she's certainly powerful.
she's the first walker with 5 abilities.
+1 exile card, you may cast it.
+1 exile card, deals 2 damage to each opponent
they're templated as the same ability, which makes them even better.
great +1... doesn't protect her, we all know how important that is, but it's VERY good.
I'd say it's as good as Jace, Unraveler of Secrets's +1, but instead of better filtering, you get the option of transforming anything you don't want into a shock to the face, and this is really great.
+1 Add RR as a bad version of Garruk Wildspeaker's +1. but it's fine.... it's another +1, could be useful to cast her alongside a 2drop or burn spell that will protect her.
-3 is Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker, exactly that... in a walker with the same starting loyalty and 1 less CMC. great ability.
Ultimate is pretty powerful, but keep in mind you actually need more cards to make it good.
most ultimates are "OK, I activate and you're in trouble" this one will frustrate someone sometime... that someone will activate it, draw 3 lands straight and die without it dealing a single point of damage.
It remembers me a little of Venser, the Sojourner's ultimate, she even takes the same time to get there and activate it.
Venser's has the advantage of making anything go away, Chandra's can go to the face.
well, all in all, she has 3 abilities similar to decent abilities of 5CMC walkers. and an extra ability similar to a 4CMC walker...
she's strong.
hype is high, maybe over the top, but she might just live up to it.
Once she hits the battlefield, she's not as powerful as Chandra, Flamecaller, but that's a 6 mana walker, if she was that powerful, she'd be really broken.
Ultimate is pretty powerful, but keep in mind you actually need more cards to make it good.
most ultimates are "OK, I activate and you're in trouble" this one will frustrate someone sometime... that someone will activate it, draw 3 lands straight and die without it dealing a single point of damage.
The last time I ultimated Tamiyo, Field Researcher, I drew nothing but lands for the rest of the game. It was very frustrating. This one seems slightly better, because even non-board-affecting spells like card filter or ramp become burn which means more time to draw more things. But yes, there's certainly the potential to whiff.
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I'm gonna be that person and ask a question where I probably already know the answer.
Opened a foil Chandra this weekend. I play casually, plan on playing with her, and don't need the money from selling her/downgrading from foil to regular.
That said, I would sell if there was a prevalent opinion that the foil will plummet (down to $60-$70ish) and now is the time for arbitrage.
In that scenario, I'd be fine going without her for a little bit.
My suspicion is that the foil may not retain its current price but probably won't drop notably, either. Seem reasonable?
Side question: How do you guys play with expensive cards? I was thinking of proxying a land as a placeholder and then putting the real card, which I'll keep double-sleeved and top-loaded, into play after casting the proxy so that I don't have to shuffle. Is that a normal approach?
I forsee Chandra falling like a stone in the short term and then gradually rising in the five to ten year range as she sees Modern play. It's a very good card. Foils will probably drop less in the short term (due to price memory) and then also gain more in the future. So, do you wanna make money now or in a few years?
I'd probably sell personally, there is a metric ton of draw for me to crack packs of this set. lands, masterpieces, splashy artifacts, artwork (does foil lands doe), etc.
I already sold the one masterpiece I pulled from one of my prerelease kits because I expect another BFZ style set. Unless she runs away like giddeon did I don't see it staying as daughter after and high priced.
Red midrange is something they are obviously pushing but the red gearhulk just doesn't impact the board like the others. Do I really care if you draw 3 if I have the better board position and a grip of answers already? Unless Chandra is flipping over relevant cards I see her impact being so so right now. I'm not sure she's modern playable outside of something like skred or ponza where there are stronger plays to be doing anyway.
Give her 6 months and she will plummet. This set is going to be opened to the extreme for Masterpieces so she will be oversaturated. I would sell her while she is high. Look at Battle for Zendikar. It is still in Standard and there are a grand total of 3 cards worth more than $10 in the whole block. Cards that are driven up in price are because of scarcity. JTMS before the reprints, Voice of Resurgence, etc
I'm gonna be that person and ask a question where I probably already know the answer.
Opened a foil Chandra this weekend. I play casually, plan on playing with her, and don't need the money from selling her/downgrading from foil to regular.
That said, I would sell if there was a prevalent opinion that the foil will plummet (down to $60-$70ish) and now is the time for arbitrage.
In that scenario, I'd be fine going without her for a little bit.
My suspicion is that the foil may not retain its current price but probably won't drop notably, either. Seem reasonable?
Side question: How do you guys play with expensive cards? I was thinking of proxying a land as a placeholder and then putting the real card, which I'll keep double-sleeved and top-loaded, into play after casting the proxy so that I don't have to shuffle. Is that a normal approach?
Congrats on the open. Her supply is lowest right now, so I'd move it right now and pick it up again later.
Side answer: I just double-sleeve and shuffle carefully. I used to proxy up basic lands, but I've found that double-sleeving works just fine. So far I haven't noticed any degradation on my cards - and yes, it's stuff that's in that ballpark.
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Yeah. As much as the card LOOKS like JTMS, it isn't. There's next to no room for a four mana non-blue walker in Legacy, and her chances aren't much better in Modern.
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Yeah. As much as the card LOOKS like JTMS, it isn't. There's next to no room for a four mana non-blue walker in Legacy, and her chances aren't much better in Modern.
I think people really wanted it to be JTMS and that alone also drove the preorder price high. People are already selling her 2nd hand from pre-release for like 33-37 usd. People are basically going to use her as a meal ticket for other cards in the set at this rate so I'm already rating her the next Nissa, voice of zendikar. I'm not going to be surprised if her price gets crushed into the 30 usd range on release day.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I think you guys are swinging too negative. She's no Jace, but she is absolutely a Nahiri or better. She's a very fine walker and I think you WILL see her played in Modern and perhaps even Legacy and Vintage from time to time. Remember, Dack was a $50.00 walker until reprint based solely on on Vintage play, almost.
Look at Jace, Vryn's Prodgy. Down to $30 now but poised to increase. That's Chandra.
I think you guys are swinging too negative. She's no Jace, but she is absolutely a Nahiri or better. She's a very fine walker and I think you WILL see her played in Modern and perhaps even Legacy and Vintage from time to time. Remember, Dack was a $50.00 walker until reprint based solely on on Vintage play, almost.
Look at Jace, Vryn's Prodgy. Down to $30 now but poised to increase. That's Chandra.
Dack was also only available in a criminally underopened set, AND he's clearly the best card from the set. Chandra is good, but there are a lot of good cards in Kaladesh (it has a cycle of rare duals, which is always nice for value), plus people are going to be opening it for the lottery tickets. So I see the argument against her pulling a Dack as one of supply, not card quality.
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Now I'm going to make a sweeping generalization here. The Magic community is losing their collective minds over this card.
We haven't seen hype like this for a long time.
$59.99 sold out on SCG at the time of this post.
I guess I just don't understand it. Seems like a sure loser. Will be interesting to track where the bottom is.
Wasn't Kozilek's Return preselling for $25 or more? Chandra has the planeswalker bump - JTMS went from reasonable to stupid, so all planeswalkers start out too expensive so that stores won't lose money on them. Then she's got 4 abilities, and that's YUGE, so of course she's going to be more just in case.
Not saying that she's a bad card, but she's so obviously the "Red Mind Sculptor" that it's not even funny. Tack on art by one of Magic's hottest new artists, and yeah, that's a formula for lots of hype.
+1 more red mana? I already have to make my mana base heavily red to cast her. Sure I guess it's nice if I want cast some big gearhulks or Eldrazi titans.
-3 same ability as Sarkhan, was useful but hardly game breaking.
-7 Doesn't win immediately but it does put you very close especially if you have the burn spells.
The only synergy I see is modern burn. Maybe a little utility in modern Jund.
New standard staple? Why because jamming a heavy splash of red into every deck is possible with standard mana bases? No you'll need to be playing an actual red deck. That means you need good red cards to play supporting roles. I guess my biggest concern is seeing a weak burn package in standard.
Perhaps I'm being too cautious about this and perhaps I just don't see red as a viable color for the decks I like to play but it really feels like something that is restricted in how it can be played and isn't just something that can be awesome in a vacuum. To me looking deeper I can see the restrictions on it.
I feel like Eldrich Moon will be an under opened set and Kaladesh will not. Eldrich Moon was released with Eternal Masters and Conspiracy 2 right afterwards. Magic Origins was also in this July dead zone which contributed to the price of baby Jace.
Also in the comparison it must be noted EMN is top heavy. Kaladesh might end up being top heavy too but to me the overall power level looks good and it has modern playable first print rare dual lands.
Is she a bad card? No she's the main character in the story and as such they've made her a card the will see play. You just need to go back to the magic economics of how many packs people are going to open and how value is distributed through a large standard set where the power level of the mythic rares is fairly well distributed.
The card is good, no doubt. I dare say it's probably going to be downright amazing in Standard. That's enough to keep a Mythic above $20.00 any day of the week. It may also be playable in Modern, maaaaybe fringe playable in Legacy.
I suspect this card reacts to rotation like Baby Jace did, though: a drop off from $60.00 down to $30.00 or below.
Yeah the fast lands are going to be staples in modern and the current standard. Getting the right ones though depends heavily on whether people are playing standard or modern. I think UR looks really weak in standard at the moment even though the land is probably one of the more popular mana combinations.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Dunno about all the crazyness, and the 50 dollars price tag, but she's certainly powerful.
she's the first walker with 5 abilities.
+1 exile card, you may cast it.
+1 exile card, deals 2 damage to each opponent
they're templated as the same ability, which makes them even better.
great +1... doesn't protect her, we all know how important that is, but it's VERY good.
I'd say it's as good as Jace, Unraveler of Secrets's +1, but instead of better filtering, you get the option of transforming anything you don't want into a shock to the face, and this is really great.
+1 Add RR as a bad version of Garruk Wildspeaker's +1. but it's fine.... it's another +1, could be useful to cast her alongside a 2drop or burn spell that will protect her.
-3 is Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker, exactly that... in a walker with the same starting loyalty and 1 less CMC. great ability.
Ultimate is pretty powerful, but keep in mind you actually need more cards to make it good.
most ultimates are "OK, I activate and you're in trouble" this one will frustrate someone sometime... that someone will activate it, draw 3 lands straight and die without it dealing a single point of damage.
It remembers me a little of Venser, the Sojourner's ultimate, she even takes the same time to get there and activate it.
Venser's has the advantage of making anything go away, Chandra's can go to the face.
well, all in all, she has 3 abilities similar to decent abilities of 5CMC walkers. and an extra ability similar to a 4CMC walker...
she's strong.
hype is high, maybe over the top, but she might just live up to it.
Once she hits the battlefield, she's not as powerful as Chandra, Flamecaller, but that's a 6 mana walker, if she was that powerful, she'd be really broken.
The last time I ultimated Tamiyo, Field Researcher, I drew nothing but lands for the rest of the game. It was very frustrating. This one seems slightly better, because even non-board-affecting spells like card filter or ramp become burn which means more time to draw more things. But yes, there's certainly the potential to whiff.
Opened a foil Chandra this weekend. I play casually, plan on playing with her, and don't need the money from selling her/downgrading from foil to regular.
That said, I would sell if there was a prevalent opinion that the foil will plummet (down to $60-$70ish) and now is the time for arbitrage.
In that scenario, I'd be fine going without her for a little bit.
My suspicion is that the foil may not retain its current price but probably won't drop notably, either. Seem reasonable?
Side question: How do you guys play with expensive cards? I was thinking of proxying a land as a placeholder and then putting the real card, which I'll keep double-sleeved and top-loaded, into play after casting the proxy so that I don't have to shuffle. Is that a normal approach?
I already sold the one masterpiece I pulled from one of my prerelease kits because I expect another BFZ style set. Unless she runs away like giddeon did I don't see it staying as daughter after and high priced.
Remember the hype for koth of the hammer and chandra, the firebrand? It fizzled out because they never printed support for them.
Red midrange is something they are obviously pushing but the red gearhulk just doesn't impact the board like the others. Do I really care if you draw 3 if I have the better board position and a grip of answers already? Unless Chandra is flipping over relevant cards I see her impact being so so right now. I'm not sure she's modern playable outside of something like skred or ponza where there are stronger plays to be doing anyway.
Congrats on the open. Her supply is lowest right now, so I'd move it right now and pick it up again later.
Side answer: I just double-sleeve and shuffle carefully. I used to proxy up basic lands, but I've found that double-sleeving works just fine. So far I haven't noticed any degradation on my cards - and yes, it's stuff that's in that ballpark.
Thanks for the input everyone and for the play tip, Knick.
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I think people really wanted it to be JTMS and that alone also drove the preorder price high. People are already selling her 2nd hand from pre-release for like 33-37 usd. People are basically going to use her as a meal ticket for other cards in the set at this rate so I'm already rating her the next Nissa, voice of zendikar. I'm not going to be surprised if her price gets crushed into the 30 usd range on release day.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Look at Jace, Vryn's Prodgy. Down to $30 now but poised to increase. That's Chandra.
Dack was also only available in a criminally underopened set, AND he's clearly the best card from the set. Chandra is good, but there are a lot of good cards in Kaladesh (it has a cycle of rare duals, which is always nice for value), plus people are going to be opening it for the lottery tickets. So I see the argument against her pulling a Dack as one of supply, not card quality.