Hey all. Like the title says, I was recently sent 4x 'Revised' Atogs in NM condition and I'm now thinking that they're counterfeits. Keep in mind, I've handled fakes before, so I have a general idea about how they differ. What I'm not sure about is how the manufacturing process differed (if it did at all) between 'Revised' and modern sets.
My reasons for suspicion:
-Cardstock feels more like a poker/playing card than a Magic card.
-The font has a "shadowed" effect on two of the copies and two don't have the same effect.
-The cards are literally in NM condition; I know this doesn't mean they're fake, but it's not everyday you find pristine copies of cards that old.
-The mana symbol color is noticeably drab and whitish pink.
-The card-backs are much darker than that of modern sets.
Now, I believe that all of these reasons could probably be explained if WoTC used a different printing method or something during that time. Hell, I don't think it would even be worth the effort to counterfeit Atogs. However, I haven't been able to find much information on that topic myself, so I was hoping some of you fine folks would be able to provide some more information? Regardless of the answer, I won't be opening a case simply because 4 Atogs aren't worth the time it would take to get the points back. I'm just curious now and want to get some more information in case an issue like this happens again. I appreciate any insight that you folks may have.
Not fake. Not sure what you think you have, but nobody in their right mind would fake a $0.04 card. Most people won't even send those in the mail, since they break even after shipping costs.
As others have already answered, you most likely have regular revised cards. They had lot more trouble with quality control at the time and older sets had lot of other problems, including the color differences on the backs of the cards. That actually meant that top players at the time always knew when they would be drawing lands or certain key cards, as using sleeves was discouraged (and you only had the clear ones availlable at first. Also it's pretty normal to have random commons to be in great condition than the playable rares, as much larger percentage of them have been played. I personally have over 2k never played revised cards in one of my bulk box, most the Lightning Bolts and Hypnotic Specters have been played, but Stone Rains, Tranquilities and other less often played cards have just been stored for the last 21 years.
The shadow-effect around the card name (and propably around the creature type and artist credits too) comes when one or more of the printing steps is slightly off-set. MAgic cards are printed in five steps, so any changes in print sheet alignment or trouble to position the printing rolls will cause one color to be off-set. White text is result of leaving areas without ink, so any off-sets are easily visible.
If you are still worried there are few tests you can do:
1) the light test. Take a bright light source and put it behind the card. Now compare this to a known real card from the same set. They should let equal amounts of light through. Just note that any wear and darker colors will affect how much light is let through. So checking the text box is always easiest.
2) Loupe or HD scan tests. MAgic cards use very definite print patterns, some which are pretty rough to replicate well. Mana symbols should have different texture than the rest of the card (there are clear dots on the symbols) The ink pattern is another issue, but as you seemed to have two cards somewhat off-set, there will be some differences on the rosette-pattern. The third and often easiest area to check are the white borders. These should be completely white, with no specs of different colored ink and finally the straight black lines around the art and text box should be continuous lines, not a row of seperate black dots.
3) Edges of the card under magnification. Magic card stock is laminated from two sheets and the glue betwen the the layers is blue or on few special products black. With good magnification it's possible to see this blue layer on edges and corners.
4) card size test. Lot of the older fakes were cut less than professionally, so the card size was bit different. Take a random black bordered card and put it behind the Atog. If the black edges show clearly at some edge or multiple edges the tested card is smaller than regular. Then put the AtoG behind the known real card. If white shows, it's larger than a known real card... This should be pretty basic.
There are multiple othe rtests, but those four are pretty simple to do and spot most fakes without problems. As for the different feel of the card stock, compare it to other near mint revised cards. The card stock ages and these days printers use bit different chemicals and the process itself has been changed a bit, making comparing new and old cards bit challenging.
Hey all. Like the title says, I was recently sent 4x 'Revised' Atogs in NM condition and I'm now thinking that they're counterfeits. Keep in mind, I've handled fakes before, so I have a general idea about how they differ. What I'm not sure about is how the manufacturing process differed (if it did at all) between 'Revised' and modern sets.
My reasons for suspicion:
-Cardstock feels more like a poker/playing card than a Magic card.
-The font has a "shadowed" effect on two of the copies and two don't have the same effect.
-The cards are literally in NM condition; I know this doesn't mean they're fake, but it's not everyday you find pristine copies of cards that old.
-The mana symbol color is noticeably drab and whitish pink.
-The card-backs are much darker than that of modern sets.
Now, I believe that all of these reasons could probably be explained if WoTC used a different printing method or something during that time. Hell, I don't think it would even be worth the effort to counterfeit Atogs. However, I haven't been able to find much information on that topic myself, so I was hoping some of you fine folks would be able to provide some more information? Regardless of the answer, I won't be opening a case simply because 4 Atogs aren't worth the time it would take to get the points back. I'm just curious now and want to get some more information in case an issue like this happens again. I appreciate any insight that you folks may have.
I'd love to see some photos. I literally have over a thousand copies of that card (I love that guy!), so I'll bet that I can find one that looks like your suspicious copy.
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Hey all. Like the title says, I was recently sent 4x 'Revised' Atogs in NM condition and I'm now thinking that they're counterfeits. Keep in mind, I've handled fakes before, so I have a general idea about how they differ. What I'm not sure about is how the manufacturing process differed (if it did at all) between 'Revised' and modern sets.
My reasons for suspicion:
-Cardstock feels more like a poker/playing card than a Magic card.
-The font has a "shadowed" effect on two of the copies and two don't have the same effect.
-The cards are literally in NM condition; I know this doesn't mean they're fake, but it's not everyday you find pristine copies of cards that old.
-The mana symbol color is noticeably drab and whitish pink.
-The card-backs are much darker than that of modern sets.
Now, I believe that all of these reasons could probably be explained if WoTC used a different printing method or something during that time. Hell, I don't think it would even be worth the effort to counterfeit Atogs. However, I haven't been able to find much information on that topic myself, so I was hoping some of you fine folks would be able to provide some more information? Regardless of the answer, I won't be opening a case simply because 4 Atogs aren't worth the time it would take to get the points back. I'm just curious now and want to get some more information in case an issue like this happens again. I appreciate any insight that you folks may have.
I started playing magic in revised. What everyone has said here is true. In fact, Revised was so prevalent during its heyday that I honestly thought the OTHER sets in magic were misprinted.
Like...why the hell is the artifact brown so dark in 4th edition? What did they do?
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My reasons for suspicion:
-Cardstock feels more like a poker/playing card than a Magic card.
-The font has a "shadowed" effect on two of the copies and two don't have the same effect.
-The cards are literally in NM condition; I know this doesn't mean they're fake, but it's not everyday you find pristine copies of cards that old.
-The mana symbol color is noticeably drab and whitish pink.
-The card-backs are much darker than that of modern sets.
Now, I believe that all of these reasons could probably be explained if WoTC used a different printing method or something during that time. Hell, I don't think it would even be worth the effort to counterfeit Atogs. However, I haven't been able to find much information on that topic myself, so I was hoping some of you fine folks would be able to provide some more information? Regardless of the answer, I won't be opening a case simply because 4 Atogs aren't worth the time it would take to get the points back. I'm just curious now and want to get some more information in case an issue like this happens again. I appreciate any insight that you folks may have.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
Alternately, get a loupe and look for evidence of any imperfections in regions that should be solid black.
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The shadow-effect around the card name (and propably around the creature type and artist credits too) comes when one or more of the printing steps is slightly off-set. MAgic cards are printed in five steps, so any changes in print sheet alignment or trouble to position the printing rolls will cause one color to be off-set. White text is result of leaving areas without ink, so any off-sets are easily visible.
If you are still worried there are few tests you can do:
1) the light test. Take a bright light source and put it behind the card. Now compare this to a known real card from the same set. They should let equal amounts of light through. Just note that any wear and darker colors will affect how much light is let through. So checking the text box is always easiest.
2) Loupe or HD scan tests. MAgic cards use very definite print patterns, some which are pretty rough to replicate well. Mana symbols should have different texture than the rest of the card (there are clear dots on the symbols) The ink pattern is another issue, but as you seemed to have two cards somewhat off-set, there will be some differences on the rosette-pattern. The third and often easiest area to check are the white borders. These should be completely white, with no specs of different colored ink and finally the straight black lines around the art and text box should be continuous lines, not a row of seperate black dots.
3) Edges of the card under magnification. Magic card stock is laminated from two sheets and the glue betwen the the layers is blue or on few special products black. With good magnification it's possible to see this blue layer on edges and corners.
4) card size test. Lot of the older fakes were cut less than professionally, so the card size was bit different. Take a random black bordered card and put it behind the Atog. If the black edges show clearly at some edge or multiple edges the tested card is smaller than regular. Then put the AtoG behind the known real card. If white shows, it's larger than a known real card... This should be pretty basic.
There are multiple othe rtests, but those four are pretty simple to do and spot most fakes without problems. As for the different feel of the card stock, compare it to other near mint revised cards. The card stock ages and these days printers use bit different chemicals and the process itself has been changed a bit, making comparing new and old cards bit challenging.
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I'd love to see some photos. I literally have over a thousand copies of that card (I love that guy!), so I'll bet that I can find one that looks like your suspicious copy.
I started playing magic in revised. What everyone has said here is true. In fact, Revised was so prevalent during its heyday that I honestly thought the OTHER sets in magic were misprinted.
Like...why the hell is the artifact brown so dark in 4th edition? What did they do?