until now i just trader every battle lands i got from bfz, is it a mistake? will they go up in the future ?
i dont see them play in modern over shock lands.
until now i just trader every battle lands i got from bfz, is it a mistake? will they go up in the future ?
i dont see them play in modern over shock lands.
I don't see them being picked over the shocks, but I can see them played alongside shocks. Maybe at a 3:1 ratio of shocks:tangos (that's just a shot in the dark).
Rare dual lands pretty much always do well long-term. They're currently awesome in Standard, so trading them away now may not be a bad call, but I'd want to make sure to end up with some at rotation, at least. Or, if they drop when KTK and the fetches rotate, maybe pick them up then (really depends on what kind of support SOI introduces).
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I don't see the Battle Lands doing anything beyond Standard. Shocklands are strictly superior (pay the cost and they're untapped, don't pay the cost and they are Battle lands) so there's no reason ever to play Battle Lands in Modern. Once we lose Khans and the fetches in Standard, Battle lands get even worse. We'll see if there is a benefit to playing them in Shadows. In EDH, sure, they're fine lands to play if you have a fetchy manabase, but you should look to shocklands as the ceiling for how high they can go. No one who has a shock will play a Batle Land first, but many people will play Shock and NOT a Battle land.
They're a fine design and a very nice card to make -- I love it when Wizards tests the waters to show that, yes, very small changes in a card do not violate the "spirit" of the Reserve List -- but they're just outclassed anywhere you'd want to play them.
They will go up. Not because they are amazing but I can't think of a land cycle that are these good but this cheap. $15 will buy you the whole set and in a lot of Standards $15 will buy you the UB land.
It's not a matter of how good or bad though - it's just the fact that they are so cheap and the only direction to go is up.
I don't see the Battle Lands doing anything beyond Standard. Shocklands are strictly superior (pay the cost and they're untapped, don't pay the cost and they are Battle lands) so there's no reason ever to play Battle Lands in Modern. Once we lose Khans and the fetches in Standard, Battle lands get even worse. We'll see if there is a benefit to playing them in Shadows. In EDH, sure, they're fine lands to play if you have a fetchy manabase, but you should look to shocklands as the ceiling for how high they can go. No one who has a shock will play a Batle Land first, but many people will play Shock and NOT a Battle land.
Respectfully disagree. In a Blood Moon-heavy meta, your first few fetches in Modern may well be for basics, which make the Tangos (we've really got to figure out what to call these things) fetchable on turn 3 without taking that shock. I certainly agree that Shocks are generally better, and definitely represent an upper bound for the price of the Tangos, but I don't think that Shocks are strictly superior.
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How are these lands not just worse than Shocklands even in that situation? You fetch out a few basics, there's a Blood Moon in play (or not), and now you're OK with fetching a land that comes into play tapped. If you have Shockland, you can choose to do that. If you want a tapped land, they're identical. If you want an untapped land, Shock is better.
There's nothing in Magic that punishes you for running a card that has the option of negating a CIPT as a replacement effect, is there?
I mean, I guess you need both if you really really want to put out a basic-land-typed dual land off of a Gifts Ungiven...? "I get Tundra, Hallowed Fountain, and whatever the Tango/Battleland that makes UW is called. CHECKMATE BROTHA"
How are these lands not just worse than Shocklands even in that situation? You fetch out a few basics, there's a Blood Moon in play (or not), and now you're OK with fetching a land that comes into play tapped. If you have Shockland, you can choose to do that. If you want a tapped land, they're identical. If you want an untapped land, Shock is better.
There's nothing in Magic that punishes you for running a card that has the option of negating a CIPT as a replacement effect, is there?
Obviously if there's a Blood Moon in play, then nobody's fetching for anything. But if not, you've got two basics on the first two turns. Now on turn 3, you can drop/fetch a Tango, which does not come into play tapped, or a Shock, which makes you pay 2 life for the privilege. If you have 2 basics in play already, Tangos are better. Or, later in the game, when you've played out some lands (including a couple basics), Tangos are better. They will come into play untapped and provide either color of mana. Remember, once you've got the two basics in play, they're essentially Revised duals.
Don't misunderstand what I'm saying - the first few turns are crucial, which is why Shocks are generally better cards to have in your deck. But the option to come into play untapped for free is something that's worth considering.
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Oh, okay. Yeah, I actually completely spaced on the fact that TangoBattleLands come out UNTAPPED if you have two basics in play because I felt it was such a non-issue. That's my bad, and you're right. IF you have two basics in play already, TangoBattleLands are better than Shocks. I stand corrected.
BFZ lands can be used in modern in the right decks to great effect depending on the shell in question and what said shells manabase wants to look like. If a landbase is basic heavy I would want BFZ duals over shocks because 2 life isn't just free. Shocklands aren't just strictly better. Hard to compare two different duals side by side and say one is strictly better than the other short of comparing shocks to ABUR duals, but there are even niche cases where shocks are better than ABUR duals like with death's shadow or having a land enter tapped provides some benefit to you in some odd way like you want to mill an extra card off the top with mesmeric orb or something silly.
Pretty easy to go with trading them away while they're seeing the most play in standard and likely the highest price. Don't see these being worth much in the future in comparison to where they are now.
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It is worth noting that they are still fab in EDH where getting duals with your Farseek is great. A lot of green ramp cards let you search out duals with basic land types and this may very well be the best budget duals that let you do that.
These duals are definatetly going up when BFZ stops being drafted. Not much probably but still a bit.
The Battle for Zendikar lands really have no place in modern. They are just going to be standard lands. Their price can go up but not too much. Your are looking at a top price of $8-9 per land and that's really it. That's only for the best lands in the best decks while they are in standard. Or the prices can just keep being low since this block is being opened like crazy for expedition lands. Once they rotate they will be $1-$2 lands. Their value will be more heavily determined by the lands printed in Shadows over innistrad than anything else. If the innistrad lands are better these may fall out of use. I do feel that the set has just been opened way too much for prices to go up.
There is no way duals with basic land types will go for a dollar. That is even less than what pain lands went for and these are a class above them.
Yeah, I'm always surprised when people dismiss the tangolands like that. In a two colour deck, the tangos are sick, and while we're not seeing many 2 coloured decks right now that can change. I would never expect duals with basic typing to be $1. They'll increase over time, but I'm not sure they'd crack ~$10 even long term.
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They're not bad. A dollar, maybe two, seems about right. EDH decks with fetches (including Mirage-type and Shards-type) will always be happy to play a few.
But, in Modern, they simply have no place. Even in a two-color deck, they will open you up to screwing yourself out of the first two plays you might want to make. Their application is so amazingly narrow (a non-mono color deck that wants to play lots of basics before having access to multiple colors of mana) that you can only seem the as a budget alternative.
Honestly, I've been brewing up a number of non-budget two coloured decks where the tangolands are great. There will be some decks that NEED to shift between colours every single turn (ie. BW Tokens that wants to B turn 1, then B/ turn 2, then needs WWW turn 3). Those decks are the exception to the rule, and most two colour decks will be fine with the tangos, adding 1-2 shocks. If the meta slows down a tad (after an Eldrazi Banning), we'll see 3 colour decks become a thing again, and we'll see Blood Moon become a thing again. Decks that play few colours and lots of basics will show up and have a place at the Modern table.
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It is worth noting that they are still fab in EDH where getting duals with your Farseek is great. A lot of green ramp cards let you search out duals with basic land types and this may very well be the best budget duals that let you do that.
These duals are definatetly going up when BFZ stops being drafted. Not much probably but still a bit.
The Battle for Zendikar lands really have no place in modern. They are just going to be standard lands. Their price can go up but not too much. Your are looking at a top price of $8-9 per land and that's really it. That's only for the best lands in the best decks while they are in standard. Or the prices can just keep being low since this block is being opened like crazy for expedition lands. Once they rotate they will be $1-$2 lands. Their value will be more heavily determined by the lands printed in Shadows over innistrad than anything else. If the innistrad lands are better these may fall out of use. I do feel that the set has just been opened way too much for prices to go up.
There is no way duals with basic land types will go for a dollar. That is even less than what pain lands went for and these are a class above them.
Modern is not the only format.
I'm with this guy. I play EDH almost exclusively and the battle lands function like ABUR duals about 90% of the time.
On that note, what do people think of picking up foils? Are they something I should be grabbing now while they're sub-$10, or is there some obvious point where they will bottom out?
On that note, what do people think of picking up foils? Are they something I should be grabbing now while they're sub-$10, or is there some obvious point where they will bottom out?
I assume that would be a fairly safe pick-up. I think the tango lands are going to be adopted at 1-ofs in some Modern decks, as being able to fetch without shocking yourself later in the game is not something to be overlooked. And we all know how Modern players love their foils. Not to mention the casual and edh play they'll almost certainly see.
I think there could be a niche for the tangos just due to the fact that they allow one to run an OK two-color manabase with all the lands having a specific basic type, functionally (through fetch, shock, and tango). Although it is pretty silly in most circumstances (e.g. Korlash, Heir to Blackblade, tendrils of corruption, et. al) some combination may have potential merit in the longrun (i.e. Vedalken Shackles). Still, they are likely to going to be worse for most modern decks, which should keep the price relatively low.
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These lands are bad. If they came in play untapped if ANY 2 lands were in play they'd be fine. That said, they don't. I've tested in 3 color EDH decks and they are bad. They first 3-4 turns you want mana flexibility so any dual land that comes into play untapped easily is way better. These are almost exclusively useful on turn 3 or later.
I've started way too many games with a dual, a fetch, and one of these. Not helpful.
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I disagree if you can play Rupture Spire without any meaningful loss of tempo in commander then really these lands are no wortst than any tapland and have significant upside
Now that we're seeing the prices on these lands dip into the $2.00 range (check eBay), I'm actually a big fan of these. They're inferior to Shocks, to be sure, but they are fetchable duals, and when we start talking about a price that matches where Painlands were prior to Eldrazi making them into the Real Deal, I'm in. I've been gobbling them up for a few days now for use in casual decks where I wouldn't want to put money cards.
On a broader scale, these play very nicely with the cheap-o Fetchlands from Mirage, as well. Those are even cheaper.
And, either cycle gets really, really good (comparatively) if they ever print enemy versions of either cycle. If you see enemy Mirage-fetches, then the Tango lands probably climb back above $5.00. If you see enemy Tango lands, then Mirage-fetches probably do likewise.
Now that we're seeing the prices on these lands dip into the $2.00 range (check eBay), I'm actually a big fan of these. They're inferior to Shocks, to be sure, but they are fetchable duals, and when we start talking about a price that matches where Painlands were prior to Eldrazi making them into the Real Deal, I'm in. I've been gobbling them up for a few days now for use in casual decks where I wouldn't want to put money cards.
On a broader scale, these play very nicely with the cheap-o Fetchlands from Mirage, as well. Those are even cheaper.
And, either cycle gets really, really good (comparatively) if they ever print enemy versions of either cycle. If you see enemy Mirage-fetches, then the Tango lands probably climb back above $5.00. If you see enemy Tango lands, then Mirage-fetches probably do likewise.
Agreed. There's plenty of anecdotal evidence above in the thread that points to them being pretty decent in EDH. If that keeps their price below $3 in the long-term, I'll eat my hat.
I think a price point somewhere equivalent to the Innistrad checks (i.e. Clifftop Retreat, Woodland Cemetery) is probably where they'll end up. They're not strong enough to be at Shocks pricing, but too useful to stay this low.
Now that we're seeing the prices on these lands dip into the $2.00 range (check eBay), I'm actually a big fan of these. They're inferior to Shocks, to be sure, but they are fetchable duals, and when we start talking about a price that matches where Painlands were prior to Eldrazi making them into the Real Deal, I'm in. I've been gobbling them up for a few days now for use in casual decks where I wouldn't want to put money cards.
On a broader scale, these play very nicely with the cheap-o Fetchlands from Mirage, as well. Those are even cheaper.
And, either cycle gets really, really good (comparatively) if they ever print enemy versions of either cycle. If you see enemy Mirage-fetches, then the Tango lands probably climb back above $5.00. If you see enemy Tango lands, then Mirage-fetches probably do likewise.
Agreed. There's plenty of anecdotal evidence above in the thread that points to them being pretty decent in EDH. If that keeps their price below $3 in the long-term, I'll eat my hat.
I think a price point somewhere equivalent to the Innistrad checks (i.e. Clifftop Retreat, Woodland Cemetery) is probably where they'll end up. They're not strong enough to be at Shocks pricing, but too useful to stay this low.
To me they just have 2 land types and come into play tapped. Not what I want in EDH. By late game (when they come into play untapped), I usually don't need a ton of mana fixing. Early game when I need fixing, I need lands that don't come into play tapped. Seems like being on the wrong side of a catch 22 to me. :shrugs:
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To me they just have 2 land types and come into play tapped. Not what I want in EDH. By late game (when they come into play untapped), I usually don't need a ton of mana fixing. Early game when I need fixing, I need lands that don't come into play tapped. Seems like being on the wrong side of a catch 22 to me. :shrugs:
Fair enough. But some EDH groups run decks that are less competetive and more casual (often called 75% builds, I believe).
Also there are lots of two colour decks heavy on the basics. And as long as Krosan Verge is an EDH staple, people won't mind fetching CIPT lands. (Krosan Verge is a >$10 foil).
To me they just have 2 land types and come into play tapped. Not what I want in EDH. By late game (when they come into play untapped), I usually don't need a ton of mana fixing. Early game when I need fixing, I need lands that don't come into play tapped. Seems like being on the wrong side of a catch 22 to me. :shrugs:
Agreed, but they do pretty well for their current price point. At $2 each, I'm all over them. At $5, not so much.
i dont see them play in modern over shock lands.
I don't see them being picked over the shocks, but I can see them played alongside shocks. Maybe at a 3:1 ratio of shocks:tangos (that's just a shot in the dark).
Rare dual lands pretty much always do well long-term. They're currently awesome in Standard, so trading them away now may not be a bad call, but I'd want to make sure to end up with some at rotation, at least. Or, if they drop when KTK and the fetches rotate, maybe pick them up then (really depends on what kind of support SOI introduces).
They're a fine design and a very nice card to make -- I love it when Wizards tests the waters to show that, yes, very small changes in a card do not violate the "spirit" of the Reserve List -- but they're just outclassed anywhere you'd want to play them.
It's not a matter of how good or bad though - it's just the fact that they are so cheap and the only direction to go is up.
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Respectfully disagree. In a Blood Moon-heavy meta, your first few fetches in Modern may well be for basics, which make the Tangos (we've really got to figure out what to call these things) fetchable on turn 3 without taking that shock. I certainly agree that Shocks are generally better, and definitely represent an upper bound for the price of the Tangos, but I don't think that Shocks are strictly superior.
There's nothing in Magic that punishes you for running a card that has the option of negating a CIPT as a replacement effect, is there?
I mean, I guess you need both if you really really want to put out a basic-land-typed dual land off of a Gifts Ungiven...? "I get Tundra, Hallowed Fountain, and whatever the Tango/Battleland that makes UW is called. CHECKMATE BROTHA"
Obviously if there's a Blood Moon in play, then nobody's fetching for anything. But if not, you've got two basics on the first two turns. Now on turn 3, you can drop/fetch a Tango, which does not come into play tapped, or a Shock, which makes you pay 2 life for the privilege. If you have 2 basics in play already, Tangos are better. Or, later in the game, when you've played out some lands (including a couple basics), Tangos are better. They will come into play untapped and provide either color of mana. Remember, once you've got the two basics in play, they're essentially Revised duals.
Don't misunderstand what I'm saying - the first few turns are crucial, which is why Shocks are generally better cards to have in your deck. But the option to come into play untapped for free is something that's worth considering.
Pretty easy to go with trading them away while they're seeing the most play in standard and likely the highest price. Don't see these being worth much in the future in comparison to where they are now.
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These duals are definatetly going up when BFZ stops being drafted. Not much probably but still a bit.
There is no way duals with basic land types will go for a dollar. That is even less than what pain lands went for and these are a class above them.
Modern is not the only format.
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But, in Modern, they simply have no place. Even in a two-color deck, they will open you up to screwing yourself out of the first two plays you might want to make. Their application is so amazingly narrow (a non-mono color deck that wants to play lots of basics before having access to multiple colors of mana) that you can only seem the as a budget alternative.
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I'm with this guy. I play EDH almost exclusively and the battle lands function like ABUR duals about 90% of the time.
On that note, what do people think of picking up foils? Are they something I should be grabbing now while they're sub-$10, or is there some obvious point where they will bottom out?
These lands are bad. If they came in play untapped if ANY 2 lands were in play they'd be fine. That said, they don't. I've tested in 3 color EDH decks and they are bad. They first 3-4 turns you want mana flexibility so any dual land that comes into play untapped easily is way better. These are almost exclusively useful on turn 3 or later.
I've started way too many games with a dual, a fetch, and one of these. Not helpful.
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On a broader scale, these play very nicely with the cheap-o Fetchlands from Mirage, as well. Those are even cheaper.
And, either cycle gets really, really good (comparatively) if they ever print enemy versions of either cycle. If you see enemy Mirage-fetches, then the Tango lands probably climb back above $5.00. If you see enemy Tango lands, then Mirage-fetches probably do likewise.
Agreed. There's plenty of anecdotal evidence above in the thread that points to them being pretty decent in EDH. If that keeps their price below $3 in the long-term, I'll eat my hat.
I think a price point somewhere equivalent to the Innistrad checks (i.e. Clifftop Retreat, Woodland Cemetery) is probably where they'll end up. They're not strong enough to be at Shocks pricing, but too useful to stay this low.
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To me they just have 2 land types and come into play tapped. Not what I want in EDH. By late game (when they come into play untapped), I usually don't need a ton of mana fixing. Early game when I need fixing, I need lands that don't come into play tapped. Seems like being on the wrong side of a catch 22 to me. :shrugs:
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Also there are lots of two colour decks heavy on the basics. And as long as Krosan Verge is an EDH staple, people won't mind fetching CIPT lands. (Krosan Verge is a >$10 foil).
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Agreed, but they do pretty well for their current price point. At $2 each, I'm all over them. At $5, not so much.
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