I've been singing it's praises ever since I realized it was an upgrade to trike in Vintage, a combo finisher for infinite mana, a colorless fireball, and numerous other utility all rolled into a single card.
Some of us have been ringing the alarm bells on this card's power level for awhile. Replaces Trike in Vintage, a card whose position has been unassailable for decades, multiplies your power with Ravager in all Eternal formats, acts as a colorless fireball, with all the combo and removal aspects of that, etc. This was enough to be confident that this card was going to be the real deal, long term. I pegged it at a $5.00 - $8.00 card down the road.
Now, in addition, people in Standard noticed a few other critical things: (1) It's two card types for delirium; (2) it stops Sahleei combo while it's on the board; and (3) there are tons of great counter enablers in Standard right now. These latter factors gave it a home in the new metagame instantly, in Delirium and B/G Aggro, decks which dominated the SCG Open on 1/22. So, Ballista skipped it's long term climb and spiked hard and fast.
I would suspect it's going to follow the price point of Hangarback Walker, however, so buyer beware at 15-20. Remember, the first decks to do well in a new metagame are the aggressive ones, typically. Strategies will adapt and then B/G will *probably* see less success. The other cause for concern is that, at least in the top 16 or so decks, I did not see any Walkers in decks other than B/G. That might change over time, but if not, then I would expect this price to subside.
Gearhulks
This one is pretty simple. They're Titans. These big dumb finishers get you value even if they get killed, so they do not "die to removal," and with the banning of Emrakul there's nothing that can really trump them. Makes perfect sense you see these in an new, aggressive metagame.
You joke, but let's not forget that they have another banlist update after the Pro Tour. I don't think any of these cards are OP, but I didn't think Reflector Mage or Copter were that bad either, just ubiquitous. If that's the only standard, then watch out.
Paradox Engine and Inspiring Statuary have shot through the roof. That Saffron guy made a deck with them and there are some quiet rumors that there are a couple of pro teams on the tech. Engine is $8 and rising, Statuary is $3 and rising. I don't think I'll bite at this time, the downside seems real while the gains may not be worth it at this point, but it's something to watch out for.
Paradox Engine is fine at $8-$10, this is a card that is an EDH all star and a standard breakout. It's possible with its synergies and potential it might see play in other formats as well. I don't see it going below $8 until it gets reprinted. Statuary seems like a one trick pony- vintage demand isn't enough to warrant a huge price differential unless you happen to have a super exotic one (read: foil Russian or something), and once it leaves standard, it won't have very many homes- EDH prefers Triskelion as it combos with Mikeaus, something statuary does NOT do.
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Statuary seems like a one trick pony- vintage demand isn't enough to warrant a huge price differential unless you happen to have a super exotic one (read: foil Russian or something), and once it leaves standard, it won't have very many homes- EDH prefers Triskelion as it combos with Mikeaus, something statuary does NOT do.
Heart of Kiran is the winner for this Pro Tour. Scrapheap Scrounger as well - price doesn't reflect it, but it's in every top 8 deck I think. And good ol' Gideon hasn't gone anywhere.
R&D is in a tailspin and since they were working on this set a couple of years ago, I suspect we're going to see a lot of *****tiness due to *****ty R&D for the next year or so.
Ban murmurs are keeping everything slightly down, I suspect. The fate of Magic hinges upon the post-pro tour ban announcement. They're going to set the precedent for the next couple of years.
Ban murmurs are keeping everything slightly down, I suspect. The fate of Magic hinges upon the post-pro tour ban announcement. They're going to set the precedent for the next couple of years.
Hmm, you could potentially make a lot of money by guessing how stubborn they are going to be.
R&D is in a tailspin and since they were working on this set a couple of years ago, I suspect we're going to see a lot of *****tiness due to *****ty R&D for the next year or so.
I keep wanting to say this in every thread, but it feels like wasted breath.
People don't seem to understand that Magic isn't designed the day before the Prerelease.
R&D is in a tailspin and since they were working on this set a couple of years ago, I suspect we're going to see a lot of *****tiness due to *****ty R&D for the next year or so.
I keep wanting to say this in every thread, but it feels like wasted breath.
People don't seem to understand that Magic isn't designed the day before the Prerelease.
R&D is in a tailspin...?
We've got a metagame with multiple powerful decks, lots of eternal playables being printed, and reprints coming in a steady drip to counter-act the secondary market spikes that have messed around with the game in the last few years.
What are you guys getting your undies in a bundle over? Are you antsy to get back to all-star sets like Homelands, Mercadian Masques, Kamigawa, or Theros?
Fatal Push has been in a bizarre price stasis since it's release, almost seemingly at an enforced 5 dollar price tag. I don't think the price will drop before it goes up further.
But if this keeps on, maybe we can use Fatal Push as a currency. Maybe develop a currency with a Fatal Push standard, even.
It's easy to understand that, though. From the instant it was spoiled, it was obvious to everyone that it was playable. People know that a Vintage/Legacy/Modern staple removal spell is going to be $5.00 minimum, long term. See Dismember. So, people are happy to hold this card and refuse to sell below the long-term price point.
EDIT: Well shiver me timbers, looks like Dismember is only $2.50.
Three bannings in Standard is not the sign of a healthy standard, and that's something that should have been caught in R&D. Hence, tailspin. If you want to ignore all that, fine - you can fling insults about undies in wads to someone else. I'm glad you're seeing Standard growth, because all I'm seeing is decline. Post Aether tournaments have had the same turnout as pre Aether tournaments.
Dismember is not a valid analogue - it was in MM17 and some supplementary sets, along with being a promo. Fatal Push is in extreme demand and the set is not being opened much, at least anecdotally.
Three bannings in Standard is not the sign of a healthy standard, and that's something that should have been caught in R&D. Hence, tailspin. If you want to ignore all that, fine - you can fling insults about undies in wads to someone else. I'm glad you're seeing Standard growth, because all I'm seeing is decline. Post Aether tournaments have had the same turnout as pre Aether tournaments.
Those 3 bannings represent the first Standard bannings since June, 2011 (and before that, March 2005). Hence no tailspin, merely hyperbole. If you want to consider a ban every 6 years as a sign that R&D isn't doing their job, go ahead, but rational people with common sense know better.
Three bannings in Standard is not the sign of a healthy standard, and that's something that should have been caught in R&D. Hence, tailspin.
It's a mistake to assume that a bad standard lead to the bans. It's more of a change in ban list philosophy than in the format.
Remember, they changed their whole banning philosophy recently, deciding to get more aggressive with formats and ban more frequently to keep things fresh and fun. I believe that the announcement came with a discussion of how they, in retrospect, wished that they had banned Collected Company last year, yes? And, perhaps, they wished they had banned components of Blue/Black devotion before that? Or Siege Rhino? I don't think it's fair to paint all of these formats as being bad. Different strokes for different folks. But, it is true that WotC is clearly getting more muscular about banning to shake things up when they need to.
If you want to ignore all that, fine - you can fling insults about undies in wads to someone else.
Describing the tensed-up state of your loins was not an insult but an idiom referencing the fact that you are complaining about something. You're perfectly free to complain, but don't get all huffy if someone calls it out.
Here's why I care about people posting these kind of complaints. I don't know if this is why other people bother to respond, but this is my take. It's not about Arguing on the Internet. It's about reaching other players and WotC employees who either read forums or get referred to ideas organically that we discuss. Clearly, there is enough diversity among Magic players to ensure someone complains about everything. But, a counterpoint should be made when the complaint goes to something important that might eventually influence people at WotC.
I worry about complaints like yours because it suggests what WotC should do is print "safe" cards. Go back to Homelands or Masques or Kamigawa. This isn't a guarantee that Standard won't generate complaints (Theros was so weak that decks based on getting lots of mana symbols on the table dominated, lol) but it's certainly a way to minimize the risk of having to restrict something. I would be very unhappy with a timid printing policy like that.
There are plenty of players, I'm one of them, who prefers a more aggressive approach. Print interesting and unique cards, and don't be afraid to push the envelope. If you do not, then it's hard to impact eternal much. Then, if you need to, manage the format using the Banned and Restricted lists.
Does that put the undergarment comment in a broader context?
I was hoping to read about standard card prices in this thread, but nope, it's same tired R&D discussion as in every other remotely standard related sub. I wish mods would pick up on this.
I was hoping to read about standard card prices in this thread, but nope, it's same tired R&D discussion as in every other remotely standard related sub. I wish mods would pick up on this.
I was hoping to read about standard card prices in this thread, but nope, it's same tired R&D discussion as in every other remotely standard related sub. I wish mods would pick up on this.
Bannings affect card prices, to put it simply.
But to Tiemuuu point the recent posts have been more about Banning’s and RD and the crappy state X (Standard, Wizards, the Ozone hole, etc) and not how those banning’s (or the threat of future banning’s) affect prices. There isn’t well with X being banned in Standard what do you think is the long term price of it? Or do you think the threat of banning’s will affect card prices. There is a whole thread in the Standard section about banning’s as a general topic.
(I personally don’t care it’s not like this thread it flooded with posts as it is but I do see Tiemuuu point)
I've been sitting on some Gideon, Ally of Zendikar. Seems like new Gideon will make him even better, but fewer copies will be in demand, right? Should I unload them now or wait?
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https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Aether Revolt/Walking Ballista#paper
I've been singing it's praises ever since I realized it was an upgrade to trike in Vintage, a combo finisher for infinite mana, a colorless fireball, and numerous other utility all rolled into a single card.
Looks like Verdurous Gearhulk is getting a second look as well. Did it make any appearances?
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Walking Ballista
Some of us have been ringing the alarm bells on this card's power level for awhile. Replaces Trike in Vintage, a card whose position has been unassailable for decades, multiplies your power with Ravager in all Eternal formats, acts as a colorless fireball, with all the combo and removal aspects of that, etc. This was enough to be confident that this card was going to be the real deal, long term. I pegged it at a $5.00 - $8.00 card down the road.
Now, in addition, people in Standard noticed a few other critical things: (1) It's two card types for delirium; (2) it stops Sahleei combo while it's on the board; and (3) there are tons of great counter enablers in Standard right now. These latter factors gave it a home in the new metagame instantly, in Delirium and B/G Aggro, decks which dominated the SCG Open on 1/22. So, Ballista skipped it's long term climb and spiked hard and fast.
I would suspect it's going to follow the price point of Hangarback Walker, however, so buyer beware at 15-20. Remember, the first decks to do well in a new metagame are the aggressive ones, typically. Strategies will adapt and then B/G will *probably* see less success. The other cause for concern is that, at least in the top 16 or so decks, I did not see any Walkers in decks other than B/G. That might change over time, but if not, then I would expect this price to subside.
Gearhulks
This one is pretty simple. They're Titans. These big dumb finishers get you value even if they get killed, so they do not "die to removal," and with the banning of Emrakul there's nothing that can really trump them. Makes perfect sense you see these in an new, aggressive metagame.
You joke, but let's not forget that they have another banlist update after the Pro Tour. I don't think any of these cards are OP, but I didn't think Reflector Mage or Copter were that bad either, just ubiquitous. If that's the only standard, then watch out.
EDH: Grand Arbiter $tax, Freyalise Stompy, Mimeoplasm Death From the Grave
Uh, Statuary is the one that lets artifacts tap to pay for nonartifact spells. Walking Ballista is the one that compares to Triskelion.
R&D is in a tailspin and since they were working on this set a couple of years ago, I suspect we're going to see a lot of *****tiness due to *****ty R&D for the next year or so.
Ban murmurs are keeping everything slightly down, I suspect. The fate of Magic hinges upon the post-pro tour ban announcement. They're going to set the precedent for the next couple of years.
Hmm, you could potentially make a lot of money by guessing how stubborn they are going to be.
I keep wanting to say this in every thread, but it feels like wasted breath.
People don't seem to understand that Magic isn't designed the day before the Prerelease.
R&D is in a tailspin...?
We've got a metagame with multiple powerful decks, lots of eternal playables being printed, and reprints coming in a steady drip to counter-act the secondary market spikes that have messed around with the game in the last few years.
What are you guys getting your undies in a bundle over? Are you antsy to get back to all-star sets like Homelands, Mercadian Masques, Kamigawa, or Theros?
But if this keeps on, maybe we can use Fatal Push as a currency. Maybe develop a currency with a Fatal Push standard, even.
EDIT: Well shiver me timbers, looks like Dismember is only $2.50.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/New Phyrexia/Dismember#paper
I wonder if that means Fatal Push is ainglin' for a downward adjustment?
Dismember is not a valid analogue - it was in MM17 and some supplementary sets, along with being a promo. Fatal Push is in extreme demand and the set is not being opened much, at least anecdotally.
Those 3 bannings represent the first Standard bannings since June, 2011 (and before that, March 2005). Hence no tailspin, merely hyperbole. If you want to consider a ban every 6 years as a sign that R&D isn't doing their job, go ahead, but rational people with common sense know better.
It's a mistake to assume that a bad standard lead to the bans. It's more of a change in ban list philosophy than in the format.
Remember, they changed their whole banning philosophy recently, deciding to get more aggressive with formats and ban more frequently to keep things fresh and fun. I believe that the announcement came with a discussion of how they, in retrospect, wished that they had banned Collected Company last year, yes? And, perhaps, they wished they had banned components of Blue/Black devotion before that? Or Siege Rhino? I don't think it's fair to paint all of these formats as being bad. Different strokes for different folks. But, it is true that WotC is clearly getting more muscular about banning to shake things up when they need to.
Describing the tensed-up state of your loins was not an insult but an idiom referencing the fact that you are complaining about something. You're perfectly free to complain, but don't get all huffy if someone calls it out.
Here's why I care about people posting these kind of complaints. I don't know if this is why other people bother to respond, but this is my take. It's not about Arguing on the Internet. It's about reaching other players and WotC employees who either read forums or get referred to ideas organically that we discuss. Clearly, there is enough diversity among Magic players to ensure someone complains about everything. But, a counterpoint should be made when the complaint goes to something important that might eventually influence people at WotC.
I worry about complaints like yours because it suggests what WotC should do is print "safe" cards. Go back to Homelands or Masques or Kamigawa. This isn't a guarantee that Standard won't generate complaints (Theros was so weak that decks based on getting lots of mana symbols on the table dominated, lol) but it's certainly a way to minimize the risk of having to restrict something. I would be very unhappy with a timid printing policy like that.
There are plenty of players, I'm one of them, who prefers a more aggressive approach. Print interesting and unique cards, and don't be afraid to push the envelope. If you do not, then it's hard to impact eternal much. Then, if you need to, manage the format using the Banned and Restricted lists.
Does that put the undergarment comment in a broader context?
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Bannings affect card prices, to put it simply.
But to Tiemuuu point the recent posts have been more about Banning’s and RD and the crappy state X (Standard, Wizards, the Ozone hole, etc) and not how those banning’s (or the threat of future banning’s) affect prices. There isn’t well with X being banned in Standard what do you think is the long term price of it? Or do you think the threat of banning’s will affect card prices. There is a whole thread in the Standard section about banning’s as a general topic.
(I personally don’t care it’s not like this thread it flooded with posts as it is but I do see Tiemuuu point)