Not seeing how Liliana is holding that price. EMN will be opened more and Bant has a Caw-Blade/Affinity-like stranglehold on the format.
She wont hold that price. In reality she's a 20ish dollar walker that will probably drop to a 15 dollar walker on rotation, who is currently approaching 40 usd because of everyone wanting to play delirium decks needing 3-4 of them at mythic rarity. Basically, the most expensive cards in the GB delirium shell are Liliana, Grim flayer, and Sylvan Advocate + man lands. Ishkanah is not really a big part of the cost because she is a one of in most of the decks.
Been doing math on the deck cost and its hovering around 240ish dollars right now. As a big fan of Innistrad and loving to keep old decks around for casual play I totally want to build it, but I think my retirement fund will cry from no contribution
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Liliana is bonkers. That is why she's going up. If the PT solidifies her standing, expect her to crack $50. There isn't much else to soak up box value in the set.
THIS!
She's the real deal and very much seems eternal playable.
Also, I'm not sure how the new Emrakul has doubled in price over the past weekend when Delirium decks only want 1-2 of her.
I am going to go out on a limb and say that the new Lily is actually better than Liliana of the Veil in most circumstances.
Could you elaborate? As someone who primarily plays black, and primarily eternal formats, I was planning to pick up a few copies once she rotates rather than pay standard prices. If she has untapped eternal potential I may have to reconsider.
I like the fact that she protects herself for +1 instead of -2, but her creature kill is still more conditional than LotV's. Her -2 is very unlikely to be worth much card draw in most legacy decks, although it does play nicely with Brainstorm if you don't have a fetch to crack. Her ultimate is both slower to activate and less immediately devastating to the opponent.
I guess I can see where she's potentially very powerful if you build around her, but LotV is just a value engine in most any deck you put her in?
New Lily is better against x/1s and is better if you are playing your own beaters. She nukes white weenie creatures all day long and accelerates your Tarmagoyf or whatever into a faster kill. I feel like you want New Lily if you're up against something like a Maverick or Death and Taxes-style list, and you want Old Lily if you're up against a deck that uses big haymakers that you need to Edict or Duress away.
While I do agree with this, I think the Escalate "Collective" cards are pretty damn good. But being a non-Mythic in a set that has other money cards right now, $7 would definitely be a good time to part with some.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I think Brutality is next. It's seeing play in Dredge and Reanimator and it's showing up in MTGO competitive standard builds.
I agree. It's such an amazing delirium enabler.
I agree as well. I actually was going to make a comment that I picked up a playset of Collective Brutality for my Modern Grishoalbrand deck, but figured I'd keep my reply short (I tend to do pretty long replies here )
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Collective Brutality is taking off. It's up to $2.70 now on tcgplayer- I'm starting to read more hype about it on various sites. Foils are a whopping $25 on tcgplayer due to limited listings. I wonder if it will stabilize around Collective Defiance's price or be higher because of eternal demand. I should have bought more foils.
Sweet mercy, am I really seeing this? A 60 usd preorder price on a planeswalker during preorder. Chandra, Torch of Defiance must really be pushing the right buttons being a 4 cmc walker with four abilities and 4 loyalty to start.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Sweet mercy, am I really seeing this? A 60 usd preorder price on a planeswalker during preorder. Chandra, Torch of Defiance must really be pushing the right buttons being a 4 cmc walker with four abilities and 4 loyalty to start.
Given the comparisons to a certain other 4-cost 4-ability planeswalker, I can see why initial hype would garner an initial $60 preorder price tag. How long it lasts there is anyone's guess and a lot rather depends upon how strong demand for the set will be and how much of it will be opened. Part of the problem that occurred with Jace and Worldwake was that the set suffered from a confluence of events and demand issues that inevitably caused the set to go out of print at wizards far earlier than most standard sets would ever see, and thusly supply issues and massive demand inevitably caused Jace to end up as high for as long as it did. That said, Origins Jace also did happen in recent history, so $60 really isn't outside of the realm of potential reasonableness depending upon if there is enough good value from the rest of the set to shift value away from Chandra due to the set being opened a lot for a long time. If not though, Chandra could end up shouldering a lot more of the set value load (see the aforementioned Origins Jace) and end up keeping at $50+ value for its standard run. Only time and more spoilers will tell what we inevitably end up with. For now though the preorders are where they are at and $50+ seems like the asking price for preorders for the time being.
Yeah, I'm glad I got my playset for my deck before the price hike. Then again, that was a strange card to begin with because it saw more play than Liliana, the Last Hope, yet ended up costing a fraction of the PW. People get hyped way too much on PWs and not enough on the most important strategy enabler cards.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I like it. I think other spikes like it, or at least see some potential there. Looks to be great in a lot of different shells - loot ability, evasion, low crew cost, low casting cost. If a vehicle sees common play, this will be the one (barring spoilers)
Right now I got cold feet with anything involving Kaladesh pre-orders, even as a player. I can't imagine how this is going with speculators. We probably got one of the most hyper inflated pre-order planeswalkers ever to be printed outside of JTMS himself.
Private Mod Note
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Right now I got cold feet with anything involving Kaladesh pre-orders, even as a player. I can't imagine how this is going with speculators. We probably got one of the most hyper inflated pre-order planeswalkers ever to be printed outside of JTMS himself.
Actually, the problem was that JTMS didn't preorder for all that much. It's because the people who took a gamble and preordered him at what was, back in the day, a very high price, ended up winning so much when he shot up to insane amounts that we have inflated preorder prices on pretty much all planeswalkers these days. Stores are gun-shy about selling a $100 card for $25, and players are still hoping to get a $100 card for $50.
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Along with many mods, I've moved shop over to MTGNexus. Come check us out!
Right now I got cold feet with anything involving Kaladesh pre-orders, even as a player. I can't imagine how this is going with speculators. We probably got one of the most hyper inflated pre-order planeswalkers ever to be printed outside of JTMS himself.
Actually, the problem was that JTMS didn't preorder for all that much. It's because the people who took a gamble and preordered him at what was, back in the day, a very high price, ended up winning so much when he shot up to insane amounts that we have inflated preorder prices on pretty much all planeswalkers these days. Stores are gun-shy about selling a $100 card for $25, and players are still hoping to get a $100 card for $50.
To be frank I never actually knew that about JTMS. Now the picture is really clear on why the pre-order cost is so front loaded on Chandra when Dovin Baan is probably the break out PW of the set. Standard blue control is definitely a thing coming this next season and anyone getting the guy at his current pre-order price is probably going to do well in the short term at least. Long term I think most people are on the right path saying he's competing with Jace The Mind Sculptor and the original Jace Beleren. However, those people are missing the fact that this PW shuts down spellskite or other activated ability shinanigans as well as rendering a lot of early drops completely powerless to do damage. I'd actually value his +1 since it turns him into a creature lockdown card.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
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She wont hold that price. In reality she's a 20ish dollar walker that will probably drop to a 15 dollar walker on rotation, who is currently approaching 40 usd because of everyone wanting to play delirium decks needing 3-4 of them at mythic rarity. Basically, the most expensive cards in the GB delirium shell are Liliana, Grim flayer, and Sylvan Advocate + man lands. Ishkanah is not really a big part of the cost because she is a one of in most of the decks.
Been doing math on the deck cost and its hovering around 240ish dollars right now. As a big fan of Innistrad and loving to keep old decks around for casual play I totally want to build it, but I think my retirement fund will cry from no contribution
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
$34 on tcgplayer. I don't think it'll hold - no one is playing 4x in their decks at the PT.
Other cards to watch: Traverse the Ulvenwald, Elder Deep Fiend, Kozilek's Return, Liliana.
THIS!
She's the real deal and very much seems eternal playable.
Also, I'm not sure how the new Emrakul has doubled in price over the past weekend when Delirium decks only want 1-2 of her.
Active Player: 1994-1999, 2016-
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Could you elaborate? As someone who primarily plays black, and primarily eternal formats, I was planning to pick up a few copies once she rotates rather than pay standard prices. If she has untapped eternal potential I may have to reconsider.
I like the fact that she protects herself for +1 instead of -2, but her creature kill is still more conditional than LotV's. Her -2 is very unlikely to be worth much card draw in most legacy decks, although it does play nicely with Brainstorm if you don't have a fetch to crack. Her ultimate is both slower to activate and less immediately devastating to the opponent.
I guess I can see where she's potentially very powerful if you build around her, but LotV is just a value engine in most any deck you put her in?
Rancored Elf will cancel your order if prices go up. Read about him and other shady vendors here.
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While I do agree with this, I think the Escalate "Collective" cards are pretty damn good. But being a non-Mythic in a set that has other money cards right now, $7 would definitely be a good time to part with some.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I agree. It's such an amazing delirium enabler.
I agree as well. I actually was going to make a comment that I picked up a playset of Collective Brutality for my Modern Grishoalbrand deck, but figured I'd keep my reply short (I tend to do pretty long replies here )
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Given the comparisons to a certain other 4-cost 4-ability planeswalker, I can see why initial hype would garner an initial $60 preorder price tag. How long it lasts there is anyone's guess and a lot rather depends upon how strong demand for the set will be and how much of it will be opened. Part of the problem that occurred with Jace and Worldwake was that the set suffered from a confluence of events and demand issues that inevitably caused the set to go out of print at wizards far earlier than most standard sets would ever see, and thusly supply issues and massive demand inevitably caused Jace to end up as high for as long as it did. That said, Origins Jace also did happen in recent history, so $60 really isn't outside of the realm of potential reasonableness depending upon if there is enough good value from the rest of the set to shift value away from Chandra due to the set being opened a lot for a long time. If not though, Chandra could end up shouldering a lot more of the set value load (see the aforementioned Origins Jace) and end up keeping at $50+ value for its standard run. Only time and more spoilers will tell what we inevitably end up with. For now though the preorders are where they are at and $50+ seems like the asking price for preorders for the time being.
Yeah, I'm glad I got my playset for my deck before the price hike. Then again, that was a strange card to begin with because it saw more play than Liliana, the Last Hope, yet ended up costing a fraction of the PW. People get hyped way too much on PWs and not enough on the most important strategy enabler cards.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Active Player: 1994-1999, 2016-
Sign & Share Petition To Fix MTG: Arena's Economy: https://goo.gl/z8fop8
I like it. I think other spikes like it, or at least see some potential there. Looks to be great in a lot of different shells - loot ability, evasion, low crew cost, low casting cost. If a vehicle sees common play, this will be the one (barring spoilers)
Speculation on what looks to be a strong, cheap and evasive creature.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Actually, the problem was that JTMS didn't preorder for all that much. It's because the people who took a gamble and preordered him at what was, back in the day, a very high price, ended up winning so much when he shot up to insane amounts that we have inflated preorder prices on pretty much all planeswalkers these days. Stores are gun-shy about selling a $100 card for $25, and players are still hoping to get a $100 card for $50.
To be frank I never actually knew that about JTMS. Now the picture is really clear on why the pre-order cost is so front loaded on Chandra when Dovin Baan is probably the break out PW of the set. Standard blue control is definitely a thing coming this next season and anyone getting the guy at his current pre-order price is probably going to do well in the short term at least. Long term I think most people are on the right path saying he's competing with Jace The Mind Sculptor and the original Jace Beleren. However, those people are missing the fact that this PW shuts down spellskite or other activated ability shinanigans as well as rendering a lot of early drops completely powerless to do damage. I'd actually value his +1 since it turns him into a creature lockdown card.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!