Fringe modern play too. People have been brewing that deck since the beginning of the format, even if it never goes anywhere. Probably some non-EDH casual demand on top of that. It's a bunch of things piled onto a Johnny card from an older set.
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The same reason why Dack Fayden's foil was/is so expensive: he's a popular mythic from a set that just isn't being opened heavily enough to meet demand. Even though Conspiracy 2 will be printed to meet demand for the next couple years, no one cares to open it because the possibility of opening a draft matters rare sours players on randomly cracking packs. Most stores have moved on to Kaladesh drafts, so product isn't being opened in that capacity either.
Is there a reason behind the fast rising price of Leovold, Emissary of Trest? The Foil copies cost at least 150 Euros (165 US Dollars).
I'd been wondering this myself (and kicking myself for picking up the wrong foils early on). A lot of the CN2 foils are hitting pretty stupid heights - I think that the problem is that when the spoiler hit, the perception was that all of the valuable cards would be printed a lot, and so they dropped in price. That in turn made opening a box of CN2 significantly less of a Treasure Cruise, so fewer people opened it. Unless people wise up and go in on the set, the foils are going to stay at stupid levels and the nonfoils are going to rebound. That's a bad thing for pretty much everyone.
This summer's heavily-laden release schedule didn't help. A lot of people were feeling financially tapped out by the time CN2 rolled around, and by the time it hit shelves we were already getting Kaladesh previews. Last time, Conspiracy 1 had a couple months as "the new thing", followed by M15, and a lot of people aren't thrilled about drafting core sets so they chose to keep going with Conspiracy 1.
FYI, @DarkSaphhire, draft-matters rares don't replace your regular rares. It's a bonus - you will always get one "normal" rare/mythic in your pack.
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The same reason why Dack Fayden's foil was/is so expensive: he's a popular mythic from a set that just isn't being opened heavily enough to meet demand. Even though Conspiracy 2 will be printed to meet demand for the next couple years, no one cares to open it because the possibility of opening a draft matters rare sours players on randomly cracking packs. Most stores have moved on to Kaladesh drafts, so product isn't being opened in that capacity either.
Aren't all draft matters cards in the land slot? Can't you like pull 3 mythics from a single booster?
Value in the set is really good though, but I saw very few drafts occurring even when the set was fresh. People just aren't opening the product despite the value in there. I have a feeling I wont be getting my foil Leovold anytime soon. Maybe it'll have a trend closer to foil Marchesa and slowly drop over the next couple years.
That shouldn't happen. I mean, WOTC makes mistakes, and you can open filler (blank, or half white and half black) cards in the rare slot as well, but none of the "draft-matters" or Conspiracy (the card type) cards should be there. If you opened a draft-matters card in your rare slot, tell WOTC and they may replace your booster.
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Source? I know that was the case with OG Conspiracy, but of my 6 packs I opened last night, I found both of those in the rare spot. I can't find any real info from WotC about this for Take the Crown.
Proof this is the case... 13:50 of this unboxing...
Value in the set is really good though, but I saw very few drafts occurring even when the set was fresh. People just aren't opening the product despite the value in there. I have a feeling I wont be getting my foil Leovold anytime soon. Maybe it'll have a trend closer to foil Marchesa and slowly drop over the next couple years.
Value in the set is okay, but I wouldn't really call it particularly amazing. A lot of the value as well is being propped up because people just aren't really opening the set as much as I think perhaps even the last one was, due to the massive amount of product releases this year and the release of kaladesh which kind of threw a wet blanket on demand for drafting the set.
Anyhow, now for more specifics on the value:
Overall average box value for Conspiracy 2: (Please note that I ignored the conspiracy cards completely because they should be in the extra slot and are all worthless from what I found when checking values online.) The number of mythics/rares/etc accordingly were adjusted to reflect only the regular cards:
Mythics: $108 / 12 mythics = $9/mythic x 4.5/box = $40
Rares: $41 / 47 rares = .88/rare x 31.5/box = $28 (There is just a ton of bulk rares in the set)
Uncommon/Common sets: $11 x 1.8 = $20
Foils: $6 (This number is low because of the sheer amount of bulk in the set, while some boxes will have some nice foil value, most will have almost nothing)
Overall Average box value: $94
Not too bad really, $94 is pretty solid value on the overall, though the set is pretty topheavy, which can be problematic for reasonable box opennings.
Great set if you want to draft it though, I know I grabbed a discounted box recently to set aside to play with later.
They most certainly are. Only the Conspiracies have their own slot that won't take up a normal rare/mythic spot.
This is the big drawback to opening this set.
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See above. Draft matters rares are in the rare slot.
I doubt it impacts EV a ton, but for Take the Crown you can find draft matters rares, commons and uncommons throughout the pack.
Thanks. I went ahead and adjusted my calculations in my last post accordingly. Dropped the box value by $3, but still $94 overall average box value is still fairly decent all things considered.
Source? I know that was the case with OG Conspiracy, but of my 6 packs I opened last night, I found both of those in the rare spot. I can't find any real info from WotC about this for Take the Crown.
Proof this is the case... 13:50 of this unboxing...
They most certainly are. Only the Conspiracies have their own slot that won't take up a normal rare/mythic spot.
This is the big drawback to opening this set.
I went looking for something official from WOTC one way or another yesterday, and I couldn't find anything. That's always frustrating. So I'll accept your evidence, although I will say that of all the CN2 that I opened (not a statistically significant amount), the draft-matters-rares were in the draft-matters slots. So maybe I got the messed up packs.
If that's the case (as it seems to be), that's an annoyance.
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Well, there goes Sidar Kondo and Silas Renn - both up to $15.
I can almost grok Silas at that price, but Kondo? Bananas.
Except neither is at that price. They are both $2.
If you are looking at non foils or at the price MTG Salvation shows, then yes, $15 is the current price. However, if you look at Foil prices, they both show a low of $2 and a high of about $5 (with shipping). The only reason $15 shows up is because of the one seller not listing them as foils which throws all the numbers off.
Well, there goes Sidar Kondo and Silas Renn - both up to $15.
I can almost grok Silas at that price, but Kondo? Bananas.
Except neither is at that price. They are both $2.
If you are looking at non foils or at the price MTG Salvation shows, then yes, $15 is the current price. However, if you look at Foil prices, they both show a low of $2 and a high of about $5 (with shipping). The only reason $15 shows up is because of the one seller not listing them as foils which throws all the numbers off.
Shown spiked to $15 here and here as well.
And... er... how does one get foil copies of Silas and Kondo? Are they the oversized foils that get thrown into the Commander decks or something? Otherwise, there will be no foil printing available anywhere for these cards. It's non-foil or bust.
Shown spiked to $15 here and here as well.
And... er... how does one get foil copies of Silas and Kondo? Are they the oversized foils that get thrown into the Commander decks or something? Otherwise, there will be no foil printing available anywhere for these cards. It's non-foil or bust.
Actually, it's foil or bust. WOTC announced that the 4 new Commanders in each deck would be printed only in foil.
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There are no non-foil copies of any of the new Commanders. Each of the new four color legends as well as all of the legends with the Partner mechanic come foiled in the standard card size. See SCG's or Channelfireball's site for proof; none of the big vendors are selling non-foil copies of the new legends.
Well, there goes Sidar Kondo and Silas Renn - both up to $15.
I can almost grok Silas at that price, but Kondo? Bananas.
Except neither is at that price. They are both $2.
If you are looking at non foils or at the price MTG Salvation shows, then yes, $15 is the current price. However, if you look at Foil prices, they both show a low of $2 and a high of about $5 (with shipping). The only reason $15 shows up is because of the one seller not listing them as foils which throws all the numbers off.
Shown spiked to $15 here and here as well.
And... er... how does one get foil copies of Silas and Kondo? Are they the oversized foils that get thrown into the Commander decks or something? Otherwise, there will be no foil printing available anywhere for these cards. It's non-foil or bust.
As others have said, you not only get the oversized foil version of the 4-color commander from each deck, but the normal sized 4-color commander as well as the 3 partner commanders from each deck are all in foil. Link for reference (info is towards the bottom of the page): http://wpn.wizards.com/en/products/commander-2016
So in other words, that seller that posted the non-foil of any of those up there, is incorrect and those can be ignored, just look at the foil versions for those to get the correct current selling valuation on the 4-color or partner commanders.
Ah, there you go... somehow missed that announcement. So I guess that's what is behind the spike of Kondo and Silas - somewhat playable commanders only available in foil? Sounds like a long-term spec bound to happen at some point...
Thanks for the info, guys!
Ah, there you go... somehow missed that announcement. So I guess that's what is behind the spike of Kondo and Silas - somewhat playable commanders only available in foil? Sounds like a long-term spec bound to happen at some point...
Thanks for the info, guys!
Just to be clear, there is no actual spike on either of those. Sites using TCGPlayer's pricing data use the nonfoil prices. At the moment, Kondo and Silas each have a single seller listing nonfoil copies at $14.99 and it's throwing off the reported pricing data. Looking around the internet or going to the source of the pricing data shows that there are numerous copies available in the $2-4 range. The spike you're seeing is basically an error in an automated report.
It does bring up an interesting question though. We haven't seen commanders released exclusively in foil before. How does that affect demand, both short term and long term? Do the prices trend closer to previous (nonfoil) commander releases, like they should, or are people going to put a premium on foils despite there not being any other option?
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I'd say the only way they'd command a premium is if there were more of the non-foils printed. So maybe if they are printed in a future commander set as non-foils. Otherwise they just cost what they cost.
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I guess cards only available at decent prices in Commanders Arsenal (like Diaochan, Artful Beauty) and in FtVs (like Rolling Earthquake) are probably the examples to use.
Those two examples both seem to float around the $4-5 mark. Would it be less if they were non-foil? Possibly... some of the other P3K cards that saw non-foil printings only (like Strategic Planning) are worth cents on the dollar...
I guess cards only available at decent prices in Commanders Arsenal (like Diaochan, Artful Beauty) and in FtVs (like Rolling Earthquake) are probably the examples to use.
Those two examples both seem to float around the $4-5 mark. Would it be less if they were non-foil? Possibly... some of the other P3K cards that saw non-foil printings only (like Strategic Planning) are worth cents on the dollar...
P3K is not a good example. Most of these cards aren't highly played in Commander. Rolling Earthquake is solid in Cube, but that's it. Diaochan is an occasional commander but is barely relevant. Strategic Planning hasn't been relevant since Preordain became Vintage legal (it briefly spiked when Brainstorm was restricted and there weren't good alternatives yet). The demand for these cards is so minuscule that any change in supply tanks the price.
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I'd been wondering this myself (and kicking myself for picking up the wrong foils early on). A lot of the CN2 foils are hitting pretty stupid heights - I think that the problem is that when the spoiler hit, the perception was that all of the valuable cards would be printed a lot, and so they dropped in price. That in turn made opening a box of CN2 significantly less of a Treasure Cruise, so fewer people opened it. Unless people wise up and go in on the set, the foils are going to stay at stupid levels and the nonfoils are going to rebound. That's a bad thing for pretty much everyone.
This summer's heavily-laden release schedule didn't help. A lot of people were feeling financially tapped out by the time CN2 rolled around, and by the time it hit shelves we were already getting Kaladesh previews. Last time, Conspiracy 1 had a couple months as "the new thing", followed by M15, and a lot of people aren't thrilled about drafting core sets so they chose to keep going with Conspiracy 1.
FYI, @DarkSaphhire, draft-matters rares don't replace your regular rares. It's a bonus - you will always get one "normal" rare/mythic in your pack.
Aren't all draft matters cards in the land slot? Can't you like pull 3 mythics from a single booster?
Value in the set is really good though, but I saw very few drafts occurring even when the set was fresh. People just aren't opening the product despite the value in there. I have a feeling I wont be getting my foil Leovold anytime soon. Maybe it'll have a trend closer to foil Marchesa and slowly drop over the next couple years.
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That shouldn't happen. I mean, WOTC makes mistakes, and you can open filler (blank, or half white and half black) cards in the rare slot as well, but none of the "draft-matters" or Conspiracy (the card type) cards should be there. If you opened a draft-matters card in your rare slot, tell WOTC and they may replace your booster.
Proof this is the case... 13:50 of this unboxing...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lDv90SVQdE
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Value in the set is okay, but I wouldn't really call it particularly amazing. A lot of the value as well is being propped up because people just aren't really opening the set as much as I think perhaps even the last one was, due to the massive amount of product releases this year and the release of kaladesh which kind of threw a wet blanket on demand for drafting the set.
Anyhow, now for more specifics on the value:
Overall average box value for Conspiracy 2: (Please note that I ignored the conspiracy cards completely because they should be in the extra slot and are all worthless from what I found when checking values online.) The number of mythics/rares/etc accordingly were adjusted to reflect only the regular cards:
Mythics: $108 / 12 mythics = $9/mythic x 4.5/box = $40
Rares: $41 / 47 rares = .88/rare x 31.5/box = $28 (There is just a ton of bulk rares in the set)
Uncommon/Common sets: $11 x 1.8 = $20
Foils: $6 (This number is low because of the sheer amount of bulk in the set, while some boxes will have some nice foil value, most will have almost nothing)
Overall Average box value: $94
Not too bad really, $94 is pretty solid value on the overall, though the set is pretty topheavy, which can be problematic for reasonable box opennings.
Great set if you want to draft it though, I know I grabbed a discounted box recently to set aside to play with later.
I doubt it impacts EV a ton, but for Take the Crown you can find draft matters rares, commons and uncommons throughout the pack.
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This is the big drawback to opening this set.
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Thanks. I went ahead and adjusted my calculations in my last post accordingly. Dropped the box value by $3, but still $94 overall average box value is still fairly decent all things considered.
I went looking for something official from WOTC one way or another yesterday, and I couldn't find anything. That's always frustrating. So I'll accept your evidence, although I will say that of all the CN2 that I opened (not a statistically significant amount), the draft-matters-rares were in the draft-matters slots. So maybe I got the messed up packs.
If that's the case (as it seems to be), that's an annoyance.
I can almost grok Silas at that price, but Kondo? Bananas.
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If you are looking at non foils or at the price MTG Salvation shows, then yes, $15 is the current price. However, if you look at Foil prices, they both show a low of $2 and a high of about $5 (with shipping). The only reason $15 shows up is because of the one seller not listing them as foils which throws all the numbers off.
Shown spiked to $15 here and here as well.
And... er... how does one get foil copies of Silas and Kondo? Are they the oversized foils that get thrown into the Commander decks or something? Otherwise, there will be no foil printing available anywhere for these cards. It's non-foil or bust.
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Actually, it's foil or bust. WOTC announced that the 4 new Commanders in each deck would be printed only in foil.
As others have said, you not only get the oversized foil version of the 4-color commander from each deck, but the normal sized 4-color commander as well as the 3 partner commanders from each deck are all in foil. Link for reference (info is towards the bottom of the page): http://wpn.wizards.com/en/products/commander-2016
So in other words, that seller that posted the non-foil of any of those up there, is incorrect and those can be ignored, just look at the foil versions for those to get the correct current selling valuation on the 4-color or partner commanders.
Thanks for the info, guys!
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It does bring up an interesting question though. We haven't seen commanders released exclusively in foil before. How does that affect demand, both short term and long term? Do the prices trend closer to previous (nonfoil) commander releases, like they should, or are people going to put a premium on foils despite there not being any other option?
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Those two examples both seem to float around the $4-5 mark. Would it be less if they were non-foil? Possibly... some of the other P3K cards that saw non-foil printings only (like Strategic Planning) are worth cents on the dollar...
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P3K is not a good example. Most of these cards aren't highly played in Commander. Rolling Earthquake is solid in Cube, but that's it. Diaochan is an occasional commander but is barely relevant. Strategic Planning hasn't been relevant since Preordain became Vintage legal (it briefly spiked when Brainstorm was restricted and there weren't good alternatives yet). The demand for these cards is so minuscule that any change in supply tanks the price.
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