Background: I collect artist signed Magic cards. By collecting a lot of them I managed to finish 15 completely signed sets through the years.
I have an increasing number of people that ask me what the worth of those signed sets are. And to tell you the truth I really don't know how to evaluate them. I know what I paid (ENOUGH) to put them together. And I know what the normal sets are.
The problem as far as I see is that they are (more or less) unique items.
Your thoughts?
Disclaimer: No, I don't have any intention of selling my collection in the foreseeable future (never say never...).
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Signed card collector Current signed cards count (31.12.16):
Diff. signed cards: 16'451 Artist alters: 828 Beta Project: 2574/2853 Grand Total signed cards: 42'091
1) start with the unsigned value and add some percentage to it. This can really be any arbitrary number like 20%, however,we might look up how much signed cards sell over the base price on ebay and add that amount.
2) look up how much similar products that are "improved" sell over their base price. Ex. Signed Pokemon or baseball cards
3) assume the cards are sonsideree slightly played and deduct that amount
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pucatrade
big receipts
alpha mox emerald
beta time walk
4 goyfs received
3 liliana of the veil
4 karn liberated
3 force of will
4 grove of the burnwillows
snapcaster mage
3 horizon canopy
2 full art damnation
Considering you are one of the only people I know that values signed cards more than NM, I think they are probably worth 10%-20% less than NM to 80%-90% of the potential market. This is also based on my experience with altered cards. With that in mind, there is a small group of people out there that value things like this more than the 80%-90% group and may pay a premium. Once you factor in the cost of trying to track those people down I'm not sure I would say the cards are worth any more or less than NM. But, normally I'd ask someone like you (public sig collector) what you thought.
Personally, they are worthless to me. But I am not your target.
Considering you are one of the only people I know that values signed cards more than NM, I think they are probably worth 10%-20% less than NM to 80%-90% of the potential market. This is also based on my experience with altered cards. With that in mind, there is a small group of people out there that value things like this more than the 80%-90% group and may pay a premium. Once you factor in the cost of trying to track those people down I'm not sure I would say the cards are worth any more or less than NM. But, normally I'd ask someone like you (public sig collector) what you thought.
Personally, they are worthless to me. But I am not your target.
I get where you're coming from. It's the same for me for non-artist altered or non-English cards. They're worthless to me.
My view: As completely signed sets are on the same rarity level as a complete Edgar set I would expect some premium...But since there is no real market for these things it really comes down to finding the right guy/collector.
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Signed card collector Current signed cards count (31.12.16):
Diff. signed cards: 16'451 Artist alters: 828 Beta Project: 2574/2853 Grand Total signed cards: 42'091
I get where you're coming from. It's the same for me for non-artist altered or non-English cards. They're worthless to me.
My view: As completely signed sets are on the same rarity level as a complete Edgar set I would expect some premium...But since there is no real market for these things it really comes down to finding the right guy/collector.
That's how I see it. The biggest, easiest market will be NM singles. Complete sets don't appeal to most people. Paying more for signatures doesn't either. Yet, there are a few people out there that do put a premium on them. Unfortunately for you, you are likely one of the few people you would target if you wanted to sell it off in bulk.
Having a full set probably doesn't have a big impact on the value. That a particular collection of cards is unique doesn't add much value. An individual card that's unique might add a lot of value. Most cards price won't be impacted by being signed. If an item is really unique, then the price is between:
-the highest of what you're willing to sell it for and the highest price someone is willing to buy it for.
and
-the highest of what you're willing to sell it for and the highest price at least two persons are willing to buy it for.
Signed cards are a bit different if new ones can be produced ie the artist isn't dead.
If an item is pretty rare but not unique it's a bit harder to determine value but using the lowest of all owners should give some results. Market inefficiencies can have an impact on the results because it can be hard to discover the potential buyers and sellers.
In general, signed sets aren't worth any more than the regular sets but I agree with the previous posters - you need to find the right target audience. I've turned down a few signed sets at equivalent value to regular sets in the past simply b/c I don't like signed cards
Misscut and crimped Magic cards were once thought of being worth less than NM card. It just took a few well known players/ traders / collectors to hype the value and get others interested in collecting them. (Same with Asian foils and altered cards) I saw this first hand with Asian vintage playable foils. There was a time I used to be able to buy foil Japanese Brainstorms at $5.00 and foil Deltas at $30. (BTW, back in the day Accumulated Knowledges were worth more than Brainstorms)
Some magic artist are no longer with us and there are some living artist who don't sign, I think what you have collected is something extremely difficult to do. I think you should make write a blog or something to show your collection and how you went about acquiring the cards. If you become the expert on signed cards, and get people to realize what are the difficult artist cards to get, you can be the price leader on such cards.
Just because the majority of people aren't willing to pay more for a signed set, it doesn't mean they aren't worth more. The majority of players and collectors wouldn't pay much for a Yawgmoth's Will altered by Ron Spencer or a Force of Will altered by Terese Nielsen, while there's some people willing to pay more than €1000 for each of them. The same happens with Summer Magic, many of us don't like cards from that edition, while others love them, and are willing to pay "absurd" amounts of money. Or think about high graded Alpha cards. Or MTG in general from the point of view of someone that doesn't know the game.
I'm one of those that not only likes signed cards, and I'd be willing to pay more than for some unsigned ones. But there are others that are willing to pay much more than me. Like probably Markers
You just have to find the person willing to pay as much as possible. The same happens with other illiquid markets, where supply and demand is quite small and you don't usually see transactions taking place.
How much is a Simplified Chinese 5th Edition (with the "V" symbol) booster box worth? How much is a black bordered complete 4th Edition Korean set? Who knows..? The fastest way to figure out its price is auctioning it, but that way some potential bidders may miss it, if you don't give them enough time to find the auction and bid.
Misscut and crimped Magic cards were once thought of being worth less than NM card. It just took a few well known players/ traders / collectors to hype the value and get others interested in collecting them. (Same with Asian foils and altered cards) I saw this first hand with Asian vintage playable foils. There was a time I used to be able to buy foil Japanese Brainstorms at $5.00 and foil Deltas at $30. (BTW, back in the day Accumulated Knowledges were worth more than Brainstorms)
Some magic artist are no longer with us and there are some living artist who don't sign, I think what you have collected is something extremely difficult to do. I think you should make write a blog or something to show your collection and how you went about acquiring the cards. If you become the expert on signed cards, and get people to realize what are the difficult artist cards to get, you can be the price leader on such cards.
That's the problem - those of us in the signed cards community already consider Markers to be THE expert on signed cards. He's looking to us for some guidance rather than just making up a number.
Generally, the value of quite rare or unique cards is "what is someone willing to pay?" It may be hard to find a potential buyer, but WOTC might actually make you an offer if you indicated to them that you'd be considering selling. What you have is a unique piece of Magic history, and they have been known to go for that sort of thing. It would take a private collector with very deep pockets to make you a reasonable offer on what you've got.
Well, there's two mentalities to this. Some people expect a premium because of the effort and uniqueness of such a collection. But others will expect a discount, because of the large amount of cards that are undesirable to the 99%, or reasons such as resale and overhead.
Truthfully, it's mostly about expectations. The signed cards are going to have more value and meaning to you, since you're the one who spent X amount of time and money getting it done. Finding someone who cares passionately about a large amount of signed cards that they didn't personally get done is going to be very tricky. I don't want to say impossible - I don't know that particular market at all - but I suspect that it will take splitting the collection up into individual signed sets is going to yield the best results. I suspect that if you were to sell your signed A/B/U sets (I forget exactly what you have, but I've seen some of your pictures), if you want to market it as a collectors item, then getting the whole set slabbed is probably the best bet (which isn't something I recommend very often).
Just remembered something I wanted to mention about this. 15 signed sets is a lot but at the same time it's not enough for the completionists You might actually get a higher value, supposing you found the right target audience, if you had them all.
The signed cards are going to have more value and meaning to you, since you're the one who spent X amount of time and money getting it done. Finding someone who cares passionately about a large amount of signed cards that they didn't personally get done is going to be very tricky. I don't want to say impossible - I don't know that particular market at all - but I suspect that it will take splitting the collection up into individual signed sets is going to yield the best results. I suspect that if you were to sell your signed A/B/U sets (I forget exactly what you have, but I've seen some of your pictures), if you want to market it as a collectors item, then getting the whole set slabbed is probably the best bet (which isn't something I recommend very often).
In some cases it works the opposite way. For example, I know someone willing to pay a high price for Spanish foil complete sets, but he would never attempt to make the set himself by buying individual cards, as it's much more inefficient (especially for someone that isn't into trading but just collects).
If I wanted to have a signed The Dark set, I'd try to just buy it complete. Trying to complete it yourself not only takes a lot of time, but you have to spend lots of money in shipping and other costs (in relation to the cards's value).
The problem of Markers's sets is that they aren't just signed, but many cards are also altered. So you have to find a extremely specific kind of buyer, someone that wants complete sets, signed, signed in the way they are (some people only like silver ink for example, or black), and that also likes the alterations made by the artists. But on the other side, if you are the person that likes exactly that, you have the opportunity to buy a extremely rare product in a very efficient way (complete sets instead of singles). Markers is in some sense a monopolist, a monopolist of a product demanded by a very small amount of people.
So the price of those sets is much higher than other users have said, but it can take lots of time to sell them. If you try to sell them to a random store you are obviously going to lose a lot of money, like if you were trying to sell say foil Russian stuff.
The problem is that 99.99% of players don't value sets.
Most cards are bad and will never see play.
I think it's generous to say that even 10% of people would pay a premium for signed cards. The word signed has become synonymous with the word "defaced".
MTG artists just aren't massive celebrities in their own right and hence their signatures don't carry much real value.
@Dresden: I am working on getting more together but it will make my future headaches even bigger. And getting all of the sets together...That's "World Domination Level" collecting (on the same level as getting all (ALL) Alpha Black Lotuses in a collection.
@Lord Anarchy: A potential buyer will certainly not be a player (foremost). He will be a collector. It's about the complete set(s) not a particular card. No player cares about a signed Alpha Earthbind...The collector does.
@KnickM: That's what I think as well. In the end no private person will have the funds (will want to spend so much) if I'd sell all at once...A signed card museum run by WOTC with my cards...hm...
@Vedast: you make some very good points. Thanks!
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Signed card collector Current signed cards count (31.12.16):
Diff. signed cards: 16'451 Artist alters: 828 Beta Project: 2574/2853 Grand Total signed cards: 42'091
Honestly man it sounds like you put a lot of effort and time into getting all those cards, they are probably something you woulr regret selling at any price. Just my opinion. Once they are gone they will likely stay gone.
Honestly, what you are talking about is a museum piece. This is a unique part of magic history and although one or two collectors might be interested, much of the magic-playing public would be interested in seeing it in person.
Perhaps it could be properly displayed and brought to major events (Pro Tours, Invitationals, Etc.) It'd be a smart move for Wizards to have some really sharp historic pieces to show off once in awhile.
I'd happily pay 10-20% more than what a normal set is worth, especially for things like Mirage block.
I don't think you'd be able to buy a Mirage-Block set completely signed by the artists for a 10-20% mark up. Why not? I haven't heard from anyone having such a set. DK and AQ seem to be the "easiest" (I know of 5 or 6 existing), then AN (I know of 4)...the rest are even more scarce...
That's why I say...Having a signed set is on a rarity level similiar to an complete Edgar set or an Alpha Playset...Very, very, very few exist...
@ChasmSkulker249: I don't think I gonna sell them in the foreseeable future. But you should never say never...There might always be special circumstances where money is needed.
@Burntgerbil: Interesting idea...
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Signed card collector Current signed cards count (31.12.16):
Diff. signed cards: 16'451 Artist alters: 828 Beta Project: 2574/2853 Grand Total signed cards: 42'091
The market for who would be interested at a reasonable price is very very limited. I bet you'd be very disappointed with what you'd get under most circumstances. The only way to get good value would be to find someone else like you who wants it.
Cheers
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I have an increasing number of people that ask me what the worth of those signed sets are. And to tell you the truth I really don't know how to evaluate them. I know what I paid (ENOUGH) to put them together. And I know what the normal sets are.
The problem as far as I see is that they are (more or less) unique items.
Your thoughts?
Disclaimer: No, I don't have any intention of selling my collection in the foreseeable future (never say never...).
Current signed cards count (31.12.16):
Artist alters: 828
Beta Project: 2574/2853
Grand Total signed cards: 42'091
All my stuff in a FB group
Me@WOTC
1) start with the unsigned value and add some percentage to it. This can really be any arbitrary number like 20%, however,we might look up how much signed cards sell over the base price on ebay and add that amount.
2) look up how much similar products that are "improved" sell over their base price. Ex. Signed Pokemon or baseball cards
3) assume the cards are sonsideree slightly played and deduct that amount
pucatrade
big receipts
alpha mox emerald
beta time walk
4 goyfs received
3 liliana of the veil
4 karn liberated
3 force of will
4 grove of the burnwillows
snapcaster mage
3 horizon canopy
2 full art damnation
Personally, they are worthless to me. But I am not your target.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
I get where you're coming from. It's the same for me for non-artist altered or non-English cards. They're worthless to me.
My view: As completely signed sets are on the same rarity level as a complete Edgar set I would expect some premium...But since there is no real market for these things it really comes down to finding the right guy/collector.
Current signed cards count (31.12.16):
Artist alters: 828
Beta Project: 2574/2853
Grand Total signed cards: 42'091
All my stuff in a FB group
Me@WOTC
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
-the highest of what you're willing to sell it for and the highest price someone is willing to buy it for.
and
-the highest of what you're willing to sell it for and the highest price at least two persons are willing to buy it for.
Signed cards are a bit different if new ones can be produced ie the artist isn't dead.
If an item is pretty rare but not unique it's a bit harder to determine value but using the lowest of all owners should give some results. Market inefficiencies can have an impact on the results because it can be hard to discover the potential buyers and sellers.
Some magic artist are no longer with us and there are some living artist who don't sign, I think what you have collected is something extremely difficult to do. I think you should make write a blog or something to show your collection and how you went about acquiring the cards. If you become the expert on signed cards, and get people to realize what are the difficult artist cards to get, you can be the price leader on such cards.
I'm one of those that not only likes signed cards, and I'd be willing to pay more than for some unsigned ones. But there are others that are willing to pay much more than me. Like probably Markers
You just have to find the person willing to pay as much as possible. The same happens with other illiquid markets, where supply and demand is quite small and you don't usually see transactions taking place.
How much is a Simplified Chinese 5th Edition (with the "V" symbol) booster box worth? How much is a black bordered complete 4th Edition Korean set? Who knows..? The fastest way to figure out its price is auctioning it, but that way some potential bidders may miss it, if you don't give them enough time to find the auction and bid.
That's the problem - those of us in the signed cards community already consider Markers to be THE expert on signed cards. He's looking to us for some guidance rather than just making up a number.
Generally, the value of quite rare or unique cards is "what is someone willing to pay?" It may be hard to find a potential buyer, but WOTC might actually make you an offer if you indicated to them that you'd be considering selling. What you have is a unique piece of Magic history, and they have been known to go for that sort of thing. It would take a private collector with very deep pockets to make you a reasonable offer on what you've got.
Truthfully, it's mostly about expectations. The signed cards are going to have more value and meaning to you, since you're the one who spent X amount of time and money getting it done. Finding someone who cares passionately about a large amount of signed cards that they didn't personally get done is going to be very tricky. I don't want to say impossible - I don't know that particular market at all - but I suspect that it will take splitting the collection up into individual signed sets is going to yield the best results. I suspect that if you were to sell your signed A/B/U sets (I forget exactly what you have, but I've seen some of your pictures), if you want to market it as a collectors item, then getting the whole set slabbed is probably the best bet (which isn't something I recommend very often).
In some cases it works the opposite way. For example, I know someone willing to pay a high price for Spanish foil complete sets, but he would never attempt to make the set himself by buying individual cards, as it's much more inefficient (especially for someone that isn't into trading but just collects).
If I wanted to have a signed The Dark set, I'd try to just buy it complete. Trying to complete it yourself not only takes a lot of time, but you have to spend lots of money in shipping and other costs (in relation to the cards's value).
So the price of those sets is much higher than other users have said, but it can take lots of time to sell them. If you try to sell them to a random store you are obviously going to lose a lot of money, like if you were trying to sell say foil Russian stuff.
Most cards are bad and will never see play.
I think it's generous to say that even 10% of people would pay a premium for signed cards. The word signed has become synonymous with the word "defaced".
MTG artists just aren't massive celebrities in their own right and hence their signatures don't carry much real value.
@Dresden: I am working on getting more together but it will make my future headaches even bigger. And getting all of the sets together...That's "World Domination Level" collecting (on the same level as getting all (ALL) Alpha Black Lotuses in a collection.
@Lord Anarchy: A potential buyer will certainly not be a player (foremost). He will be a collector. It's about the complete set(s) not a particular card. No player cares about a signed Alpha Earthbind...The collector does.
@KnickM: That's what I think as well. In the end no private person will have the funds (will want to spend so much) if I'd sell all at once...A signed card museum run by WOTC with my cards...hm...
@Vedast: you make some very good points. Thanks!
Current signed cards count (31.12.16):
Artist alters: 828
Beta Project: 2574/2853
Grand Total signed cards: 42'091
All my stuff in a FB group
Me@WOTC
He's not looking to sell or offload.
But as others have said, it's finding the right people who enjoy the same type of collecting you do. Normal players will value of equal or less.
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My Cube on CubeTutor
Perhaps it could be properly displayed and brought to major events (Pro Tours, Invitationals, Etc.) It'd be a smart move for Wizards to have some really sharp historic pieces to show off once in awhile.
I don't think you'd be able to buy a Mirage-Block set completely signed by the artists for a 10-20% mark up. Why not? I haven't heard from anyone having such a set. DK and AQ seem to be the "easiest" (I know of 5 or 6 existing), then AN (I know of 4)...the rest are even more scarce...
That's why I say...Having a signed set is on a rarity level similiar to an complete Edgar set or an Alpha Playset...Very, very, very few exist...
@ChasmSkulker249: I don't think I gonna sell them in the foreseeable future. But you should never say never...There might always be special circumstances where money is needed.
@Burntgerbil: Interesting idea...
Current signed cards count (31.12.16):
Artist alters: 828
Beta Project: 2574/2853
Grand Total signed cards: 42'091
All my stuff in a FB group
Me@WOTC
Cheers