I agree. A contact I have in Canada shared some outrageous information with me as well (it surely feels like they're printing these like they're printing U.S. currency in the back fields)...but I did state asap in my first post on the topic of this Judge foil that nowhere did it state only a few selected Judge's were going to get a sole copy...hell if they sit at $300 bucks after a few weeks means most lost $500 a shot in that time. I would call that experience in the stock market a suicide jump...and it's not like the buyers don't have the history of "knowledge" at their disposal.
Just wait a few weeks. They sent these out in MUCH larger numbers than the sharks would have you believe. From what I have seen personally, they distributed them in multiples. One guy got a full play set, a local L2 received 2 copies, etc. And they are still not finished with these. According to Helen Bergeot there will be more opportunities to receive these.
"More opportunities" could mean a lot of different things. For example, there were "more opportunities" to get the SDCC promos, in the sense that a few large tournaments had them as prizes. So there is a risk in not buying as well. If you decide not to buy and wait it out in the hope of more printings and it turns out there aren't any (that are significant), it's possible the Forces might rocket up to $2k+ in that time.
To me, everything smells fishy about these promos. It doesn't make sense that they would print a large number of them because they are gifts for experienced L2 judges. Yet they say there will be more in the future. The question is, how much more? 500 more isn't going to change the prices. 5000 more might. I really want one but I don't know what to think.
I agree. A contact I have in Canada shared some outrageous information with me as well (it surely feels like they're printing these like they're printing U.S. currency in the back fields)...but I did state asap in my first post on the topic of this Judge foil that nowhere did it state only a few selected Judge's were going to get a sole copy...hell if they sit at $300 bucks after a few weeks means most lost $500 a shot in that time. I would call that experience in the stock market a suicide jump...and it's not like the buyers don't have the history of "knowledge" at their disposal.
Just wait a few weeks. They sent these out in MUCH larger numbers than the sharks would have you believe. From what I have seen personally, they distributed them in multiples. One guy got a full play set, a local L2 received 2 copies, etc. And they are still not finished with these. According to Helen Bergeot there will be more opportunities to receive these.
"More opportunities" could mean a lot of different things. For example, there were "more opportunities" to get the SDCC promos, in the sense that a few large tournaments had them as prizes. So there is a risk in not buying as well. If you decide not to buy and wait it out in the hope of more printings and it turns out there aren't any (that are significant), it's possible the Forces might rocket up to $2k+ in that time.
To me, everything smells fishy about these promos. It doesn't make sense that they would print a large number of them because they are gifts for experienced L2 judges. Yet they say there will be more in the future. The question is, how much more? 500 more isn't going to change the prices. 5000 more might. I really want one but I don't know what to think.
It's certainly possible that they will continue to give these out to L2 judges who spawn new judges. "Thanks for making a new judge. Here's some gold." Demand would far outpace supply regardless.
Personally, I feel as though it doesn't really matter. $750, $2000, they're both well above what I could pay for a card.
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Legacy is dead, why would anyone spend $1000 on a FoW? (j/k)
The comment regarding snap buying at $235, I would be all over that too. What does that mean?
It probably means mentally we all know that this card is easily north of $500.
SDCC planeswalkers only got more expensive when it became clear how hard it would be to obtain them.
Force of Will is the "Flagship" card of legacy, not Jace.
Well it looks like some judges are getting more than 1 (right now it either based on number of judges certified or length of being a judge) I know one l2 who get 4 and one who got 1 (and I've not gotten mine yet) So there will be more then the original 1000 estimated. But not that many more
That being said if it based on how many judges you cert (every 10 you get another one or something) expect these to stay expensive. If they end up in the GP packet i don't think they will ever go under $200 each.
There's no way I would be spending anywhere near $1000 for one of these... that's just throwing money away. You have to wait for when there's a couple hundred of these on the market at the same time. All because a card has some X future value doesn't mean I'm snap buying every single copy I can get under a certain threshold... I don't buy every Mox that I see for under $300, and certainly not every normal Force of Will for under $60. It seems like there's a lot of mass hysteria going on at the moment, with people trying to buy these things who wouldn't normally buy that sort of thing - like I know people at my LGS who are strictly standard players who were freaking out over this and had to buy one... I wonder how many of these are actually going to end up in the hands of players, and not resellers. I'd rather have three playsets of normal FoW than a single foil copy, at least at the current price point.
There's no way I would be spending anywhere near $1000 for one of these... that's just throwing money away. You have to wait for when there's a couple hundred of these on the market at the same time. All because a card has some X future value doesn't mean I'm snap buying every single copy I can get under a certain threshold... I don't buy every Mox that I see for under $300, and certainly not every normal Force of Will for under $60. It seems like there's a lot of mass hysteria going on at the moment, with people trying to buy these things who wouldn't normally buy that sort of thing - like I know people at my LGS who are strictly standard players who were freaking out over this and had to buy one... I wonder how many of these are actually going to end up in the hands of players, and not resellers. I'd rather have three playsets of normal FoW than a single foil copy, at least at the current price point.
you're dreaming if you ever think there's going to be a couple hundred of these on the market. They're being scooped up by collectors the second they hit the market. Yes eventually it will cool down a bit but it's too small of a print run to ever be enough to flood the market. I don't see this card going under $500 even on a bad day. More likely the $1000 its selling for now is going to maintain. I know people that are buying them up for $700-$800 to an unlimited amount and they have no financial reason to ever sell them.
Lol, I'll bet $$ more FoW reprints in the next 5 years too (likely foil)... keep that in mind. Not saying these won't be worth a ton but if you go crazy and then you see a reprint next year, don't feel dumb.
It's an instant speed 5/5 trampler for 4. Wtf do you people want seriously? It has applications in populate/ above the curve beats decks, or in Bant control/ flash. I seriously think anyone mad at this card for any reason other than losing an attacker to instant speed wurm, should go home and make their own awesome card game and leave the rest of us alone.
Lol, I'll bet $$ more FoW reprints in the next 5 years too (likely foil)... keep that in mind. Not saying these won't be worth a ton but if you go crazy and then you see a reprint next year, don't feel dumb.
that's very true but that's a totally different factor.
While the Fow's on eBay are staying strong at 700-1000, it's really surprising that the other promos from the packs are so high. Anyone think they'll maintain those prices? (Norn is ~150 and Oloro and Nekussar are both ~50 each).
Is it just due to the hype or are there less coming out than previously expected?
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While the Fow's on eBay are staying strong at 700-1000, it's really surprising that the other promos from the packs are so high. Anyone think they'll maintain those prices? (Norn is ~150 and Oloro and Nekussar are both ~50 each).
Is it just due to the hype or are there less coming out than previously expected?
Some people have gotten them early and are dumping them while they can. These are all the judge promos that will be released throughout this year, so the supply will go way up as the year progresses.
There may be some degree of price memory associated with them later on in the year, but by the time October/November rolls around, there should be a ton of these easily available.
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Lol, I'll bet $$ more FoW reprints in the next 5 years too (likely foil)... keep that in mind. Not saying these won't be worth a ton but if you go crazy and then you see a reprint next year, don't feel dumb.
That doesn't make a particular print less desirable. People still are all over limited print runs of cards that have been reprinted multiple times, like Judge Vendilion Clique, MPR Wasteland and foil MM Brainstorm.
If you don't have large piles of unearned funds laying around to burn....I would just admire the sales and wait for the next foil variant of FoW to be printed (most likely in the same poor artwork to be frank). The're far to many examples we've had in the past to support my claim/'s right now (doesn't matter if its a Sol Ring, Wasteland or other)...just sit back and watch the ones jacking these babies up with a ceramic bowl of popcorn near by.
I can see these holding some value, but the next foil variant is more then likely to come sooner rather then later now that the door/flood gates are open (the bubble is going to pop on the MTG market, but I guess that has been a pure given since 08).
Good times watching these situation unfold each time, without a card being stamped on that iridescent Reserved list (wait that list hasn't stopped them before either, broken promises are still broken promises, rhetorical)....hmm.
S.M.
Magic is not a classic bubble, most of the people paying these prices play the game, this is nothing like the tulip bubble that was going on a few hundred years ago. Until we hit the day when we get 10-20k speculators or more that could care less about the game and decide to just speculate endlessly, we won't be in a bubble.
Cards like these are not proving that the game is a bubble at all, someone really wants a foil force most likely to play with it. I don't think many speculators are in on 1000 bucks a copy when you can likely take that 1000 bucks and turn it into a lot more cards that will grow in value at a faster and more noticeable rate.
If these remain super rare though I can see the 1000+ dollar price tag holding quite well and perhaps a slow gain upwards.
The fact remains demand is following these trends, record attendance at tournaments is why we are seeing cards like Scalding Tarn nearly tripling in price over a 1 year period.
Magic is not a classic bubble, most of the people paying these prices play the game, this is nothing like the tulip bubble that was going on a few hundred years ago. Until we hit the day when we get 10-20k speculators or more that could care less about the game and decide to just speculate endlessly, we won't be in a bubble.
Cards like these are not proving that the game is a bubble at all, someone really wants a foil force most likely to play with it. I don't think many speculators are in on 1000 bucks a copy when you can likely take that 1000 bucks and turn it into a lot more cards that will grow in value at a faster and more noticeable rate.
If these remain super rare though I can see the 1000+ dollar price tag holding quite well and perhaps a slow gain upwards.
The fact remains demand is following these trends, record attendance at tournaments is why we are seeing cards like Scalding Tarn nearly tripling in price over a 1 year period.
There's a difference though between Scalding Tarn - a card where the cheapest possible version has risen to the levels it has and a limited print run version of an existing card (albeit an expensive one)
I mean sure, I know there's a market for premium and pimp but there is a difference between requiring a $100 card to complete a deck and wanting a $1000 one to make it prettier but add no functional value.
YMMV but we're talking a playset that equates to 9 months of mortgage payments for me and even as an unmarried 20 something year old with no children and a well paid job/career that's just not really feasible to write off as an alternative to the set version.
Magic is not a classic bubble, most of the people paying these prices play the game, this is nothing like the tulip bubble that was going on a few hundred years ago. Until we hit the day when we get 10-20k speculators or more that could care less about the game and decide to just speculate endlessly, we won't be in a bubble.
Cards like these are not proving that the game is a bubble at all, someone really wants a foil force most likely to play with it. I don't think many speculators are in on 1000 bucks a copy when you can likely take that 1000 bucks and turn it into a lot more cards that will grow in value at a faster and more noticeable rate.
If these remain super rare though I can see the 1000+ dollar price tag holding quite well and perhaps a slow gain upwards.
The fact remains demand is following these trends, record attendance at tournaments is why we are seeing cards like Scalding Tarn nearly tripling in price over a 1 year period.
There's a difference though between Scalding Tarn - a card where the cheapest possible version has risen to the levels it has and a limited print run version of an existing card (albeit an expensive one)
I mean sure, I know there's a market for premium and pimp but there is a difference between requiring a $100 card to complete a deck and wanting a $1000 one to make it prettier but add no functional value.
YMMV but we're talking a playset that equates to 9 months of mortgage payments for me and even as an unmarried 20 something year old with no children and a well paid job/career that's just not really feasible to write off as an alternative to the set version.
Right, but again there are people out there to where 4000 bucks a playset is not a big deal. I mean I know billionaires that live like they are middle class as far as you could tell, but I also know millionaires that live well beyond their means.
This is the type of card that sells to the same guy that would go in and buy the nicest BMW he could get, or the nicest Porsche he could get. Obviously the set version is vastly cheaper in comparison, so only those that have always wanted a foil force of will and have the means to purchase one will be on board with this price tag.
Lets say you were making 250 grand a year and had no wife/kids/GF is the price tag on this card really that absurd? Especially if your not the type to show off with that 250 grand a year paycheck by having the nicest clothes, fanciest cars, and nicest house etc..
So someone offered me a judge force of will for $780 CAN, should I buy it?
If you can immediately flip it for $900, yes. I'd say this is iffy, though, judges in both of the regions I've lived in have had trouble moving them at $850.
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At the moment they are falling ~ $100/week. After selling as high as $900, they are down to ~$700 on eBay completed listings, we'll see if they smooth out there once initial supply dries up. Elesh Norn on the other hand has done the opposite, with initial supply ~$250 completely gone, and at the moment only two available in the $400s range.
I'm tracking these as well (since day 1). The only problem I'm seeing is the many that believe only a sole copy was handed out per Lvl 2 Judge (and the're many in that bubble)...I have several contacts that have shared they received 4-7 copies per, only "a" price memory can keep them as high as they're now because plenty of copies are at the surface to be honest on the topic....which is so funny seeing they're SO RARE (rhetorical).
At this point Elesh might be rarer as the trusted knowledge I've received has been the complete opposite then the Foil Force of Will.
Interesting what some people will pay for a card...and what they "think" they know about their investments to justify their overall purchases.
At the moment they are falling ~ $100/week. After selling as high as $900, they are down to ~$700 on eBay completed listings, we'll see if they smooth out there once initial supply dries up. Elesh Norn on the other hand has done the opposite, with initial supply ~$250 completely gone, and at the moment only two available in the $400s range.
I'm tracking these as well (since day 1). The only problem I'm seeing is the many that believe only a sole copy was handed out per Lvl 2 Judge (and the're many in that bubble)...I have several contacts that have shared they received 4-7 copies per, only "a" price memory can keep them as high as they're now because plenty of copies are at the surface to be honest on the topic....which is so funny seeing they're SO RARE (rhetorical).
[/quote]
I haven't heard from a single judge who got more than 4.
there are exactly 11 auctions currently on ebay. Don't expect the price to keep falling and it will go back up sooner rather than later.
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"More opportunities" could mean a lot of different things. For example, there were "more opportunities" to get the SDCC promos, in the sense that a few large tournaments had them as prizes. So there is a risk in not buying as well. If you decide not to buy and wait it out in the hope of more printings and it turns out there aren't any (that are significant), it's possible the Forces might rocket up to $2k+ in that time.
To me, everything smells fishy about these promos. It doesn't make sense that they would print a large number of them because they are gifts for experienced L2 judges. Yet they say there will be more in the future. The question is, how much more? 500 more isn't going to change the prices. 5000 more might. I really want one but I don't know what to think.
It's certainly possible that they will continue to give these out to L2 judges who spawn new judges. "Thanks for making a new judge. Here's some gold." Demand would far outpace supply regardless.
Personally, I feel as though it doesn't really matter. $750, $2000, they're both well above what I could pay for a card.
The comment regarding snap buying at $235, I would be all over that too. What does that mean?
It probably means mentally we all know that this card is easily north of $500.
SDCC planeswalkers only got more expensive when it became clear how hard it would be to obtain them.
Force of Will is the "Flagship" card of legacy, not Jace.
That being said if it based on how many judges you cert (every 10 you get another one or something) expect these to stay expensive. If they end up in the GP packet i don't think they will ever go under $200 each.
you're dreaming if you ever think there's going to be a couple hundred of these on the market. They're being scooped up by collectors the second they hit the market. Yes eventually it will cool down a bit but it's too small of a print run to ever be enough to flood the market. I don't see this card going under $500 even on a bad day. More likely the $1000 its selling for now is going to maintain. I know people that are buying them up for $700-$800 to an unlimited amount and they have no financial reason to ever sell them.
that's very true but that's a totally different factor.
Is it just due to the hype or are there less coming out than previously expected?
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Some people have gotten them early and are dumping them while they can. These are all the judge promos that will be released throughout this year, so the supply will go way up as the year progresses.
There may be some degree of price memory associated with them later on in the year, but by the time October/November rolls around, there should be a ton of these easily available.
That doesn't make a particular print less desirable. People still are all over limited print runs of cards that have been reprinted multiple times, like Judge Vendilion Clique, MPR Wasteland and foil MM Brainstorm.
Too early to know how many are out there. I'd wait.
Magic is not a classic bubble, most of the people paying these prices play the game, this is nothing like the tulip bubble that was going on a few hundred years ago. Until we hit the day when we get 10-20k speculators or more that could care less about the game and decide to just speculate endlessly, we won't be in a bubble.
Cards like these are not proving that the game is a bubble at all, someone really wants a foil force most likely to play with it. I don't think many speculators are in on 1000 bucks a copy when you can likely take that 1000 bucks and turn it into a lot more cards that will grow in value at a faster and more noticeable rate.
If these remain super rare though I can see the 1000+ dollar price tag holding quite well and perhaps a slow gain upwards.
The fact remains demand is following these trends, record attendance at tournaments is why we are seeing cards like Scalding Tarn nearly tripling in price over a 1 year period.
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There's a difference though between Scalding Tarn - a card where the cheapest possible version has risen to the levels it has and a limited print run version of an existing card (albeit an expensive one)
I mean sure, I know there's a market for premium and pimp but there is a difference between requiring a $100 card to complete a deck and wanting a $1000 one to make it prettier but add no functional value.
YMMV but we're talking a playset that equates to 9 months of mortgage payments for me and even as an unmarried 20 something year old with no children and a well paid job/career that's just not really feasible to write off as an alternative to the set version.
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Right, but again there are people out there to where 4000 bucks a playset is not a big deal. I mean I know billionaires that live like they are middle class as far as you could tell, but I also know millionaires that live well beyond their means.
This is the type of card that sells to the same guy that would go in and buy the nicest BMW he could get, or the nicest Porsche he could get. Obviously the set version is vastly cheaper in comparison, so only those that have always wanted a foil force of will and have the means to purchase one will be on board with this price tag.
Lets say you were making 250 grand a year and had no wife/kids/GF is the price tag on this card really that absurd? Especially if your not the type to show off with that 250 grand a year paycheck by having the nicest clothes, fanciest cars, and nicest house etc..
Feel free to bid on my cards here!
If you can immediately flip it for $900, yes. I'd say this is iffy, though, judges in both of the regions I've lived in have had trouble moving them at $850.
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At this point Elesh might be rarer as the trusted knowledge I've received has been the complete opposite then the Foil Force of Will.
Interesting what some people will pay for a card...and what they "think" they know about their investments to justify their overall purchases.
S.M.
I haven't heard from a single judge who got more than 4.
there are exactly 11 auctions currently on ebay. Don't expect the price to keep falling and it will go back up sooner rather than later.
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UMerfolkU
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