So yeah... Where do you guys see this starting out/ending up? Looks as though it's even more limited than normal judge foils from the description. Although maybe they're planning on giving them out at events as well? Thoughts?
I'm guessing starting at $500, probably never less, then going to the moon. If they're only going out to L2+ judges, then the rarity is going to be off the charts.
I'm already seeing chatter online and on Facebook that certain collectors are willing to pay 'what it takes' and to trade extremely high end cards like Workshops and maybe even Tabernacles and lower end Unlimited Power for these. I know I'm going to be setting up an eBay alert for this. My guess is that these will go for at least $400 to start and then Wizards will take notice and start to release more of them slowly to stabilize the rocketing prices.
Aren't judge packs still handed out to judges at events?
I mean is Force of Will specifically different from other judge promos that someone would get for judging some random GP or PT? I know you need to be a level 2 judge at minimum to be allowed to judge in a GP.
Aren't judge packs still handed out to judges at events?
I mean is Force of Will specifically different from other judge promos that someone would get for judging some randFom GP or PT? I know you need to be a level 2 judge at minimum to be allowed to judge in a GP.
From the Article:
In recognition of this milestone, we sent promotional premium Force of Will out to judges who had certified other judges after 2005. These premium Force of Wills use the art created for the Legacy Championship by Matt Stewart.
In other words, not part of the judge pack but sent out to judges who have recently made new ones, which requires at least lvl 2.
Honestly I'm shuddering to think how high these may eventually get over time. Maybe they'll put more non-foil versions out in Conspiracy or next Commander product, but these foil versions, man, there was never a better time for 'the sky's the limit'.
Sideways 8. That's what this will be worth. If you want 1, be prepared to shell out your firstborn son for it. If you want a playset in addition to your firstborn child you'll also need to fork over your heart, kidneys, arms, and legs.
If these don't appear in the judge packets at all/are only sent out and then never printed again...look at the other card that is also obscenely expensive due to its very tiny print run (full art mutavault.) The difference between mutavault and force of will is that one is niche eternal playable and the other is the glue that holds both formats together/is one of the biggest staples in both formats with ease. Mutavault is worth 700ish. So the sky is the actual limit on foil force of will. Honestly, $400 for a single copy sounds like a bargain.
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Top judge foils are worth $300, and these are for cards not played in every Legacy deck. Force of Will is going to have 10x the demand of any of those other cards, with much lower supply (less than the number of L2+). Anything under $1000 is a snap buy.
I'm already seeing chatter online and on Facebook that certain collectors are willing to pay 'what it takes' and to trade extremely high end cards like Workshops and maybe even Tabernacles and lower end Unlimited Power for these. I know I'm going to be setting up an eBay alert for this. My guess is that these will go for at least $400 to start and then Wizards will take notice and start to release more of them slowly to stabilize the rocketing prices.
Wizards doesn't always print cards to stabilize prices, especially when they're cards that are meant to be rewards. They're not going to print a judge promo and then reprint it when it's too high.
Actually owning a playset of these is going to be like owning a playset of BB duals, the difference is that all of these are going to be entering circulation around the same time. That being said, it is a good question asking how many each judge is going to be receiving, if it's just one, or more. Pretty sweet bonus TBH. At least they didn't go full out and make it textless.
On another board a judge got the judge level info from JudgeCenter. There are roughly 1100 L2+ judges now. As the newer judges haven't had a chance to certify anybody yet and as the change to needing to be level 2 judge or higher to go judge GP's drew lot of new judges to L2, there are portion of the L2's who will not get the promo, but all L3's or higher will get one (the requirements to L3 are to certify another judge [or was when I was active, might have changed].)
So there will be maximum of 1100 copies, but more likely under 1k copies. Maybe as low as 800.
But estimating 1000 copies, maybe quarter of the judges will want to keep theirs, that leaves 750 availlable. First few auction high and then we wait how much stores will pay. This will set the limit. I really hope I can buy one, but have to wait and see. But I do expect this to be the judge foil with the highest price tag, at least for a while.
Aren't judge packs still handed out to judges at events?
I mean is Force of Will specifically different from other judge promos that someone would get for judging some randFom GP or PT? I know you need to be a level 2 judge at minimum to be allowed to judge in a GP.
From the Article:
In recognition of this milestone, we sent promotional premium Force of Will out to judges who had certified other judges after 2005. These premium Force of Wills use the art created for the Legacy Championship by Matt Stewart.
In other words, not part of the judge pack but sent out to judges who have recently made new ones, which requires at least lvl 2.
I do not see anywhere in the article that says they are not part of the judge pack. The fact that they put the force of will with the others in the pictures as well as it being collector number 4/9 actually suggests to me that they will be distributed in judge packs.
EDIT: Also they announce 8 future promos. I thought that judge promos were released in pairs so force should be one of them.
If it's one per judge that's tested and qualified another judge, and assuming all L2s and above have done that, then that's about 1000 copies. Or, to put it into perspective, fewer copies than any given Alpha rare.
On another board a judge got the judge level info from JudgeCenter. There are roughly 1100 L2+ judges now. As the newer judges haven't had a chance to certify anybody yet and as the change to needing to be level 2 judge or higher to go judge GP's drew lot of new judges to L2, there are portion of the L2's who will not get the promo, but all L3's or higher will get one (the requirements to L3 are to certify another judge [or was when I was active, might have changed].)
So there will be maximum of 1100 copies, but more likely under 1k copies. Maybe as low as 800.
But estimating 1000 copies, maybe quarter of the judges will want to keep theirs, that leaves 750 availlable. First few auction high and then we wait how much stores will pay. This will set the limit. I really hope I can buy one, but have to wait and see. But I do expect this to be the judge foil with the highest price tag, at least for a while.
I appreciate your maths and your sources. Thank you, that was exactly what we needed to know - facts.
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It may just be wishful thinking, but does anyone think this will lower the prices of regular FoWs?
Nope, if judge foil imperial recruiter couldn't lower recruiter's price there is not way this will do anything to FOW's price. Ditto for karakas and bob judge foils, they really didn't do much to the normal (judge karakas might've kept the normal one from skyrocketing as quickly as it would've but that is it.)
It appears that nowhere does it state each of these judges are going to receive just a sole copy...these could be handed out as Play`sets (it would be fitting to say the least if so), and a another member has a solid point/post that shouldn't be dismissed so quickly...this could be the start of the flood printing with regards to future EDH copies (picture, txt and box) as it's a solid card that many mage's want in that format as well.
Yeah I can see these pushing the levels, but this might just be the start to something even greater (rhetorical as most don't see the bus before they're already in the mist of a dead on impact/hit).
On a side note I'm not impressed with the new picture/art (FORCE OF WILL), kind of sad it was wasted in the same counterspell reference style past art...sad indeed.
On another board a judge got the judge level info from JudgeCenter. There are roughly 1100 L2+ judges now. As the newer judges haven't had a chance to certify anybody yet and as the change to needing to be level 2 judge or higher to go judge GP's drew lot of new judges to L2, there are portion of the L2's who will not get the promo, but all L3's or higher will get one (the requirements to L3 are to certify another judge [or was when I was active, might have changed].)
So there will be maximum of 1100 copies, but more likely under 1k copies. Maybe as low as 800.
But estimating 1000 copies, maybe quarter of the judges will want to keep theirs, that leaves 750 availlable. First few auction high and then we wait how much stores will pay. This will set the limit. I really hope I can buy one, but have to wait and see. But I do expect this to be the judge foil with the highest price tag, at least for a while.
I think it has recently changed such that the requirement for L3 is to be "heavily involved in the preparation and training to getting a new judge certified", so that a judge who does a lot of the work in preparation but doesn't actually administer judge test itself won't have that fact held against him.
Anyway, as a L2 who has certified a couple of judges in the past year, I certainly haven't gotten these promos yet, so I would imagine that this promo won't even be going to all the L2's who have certified judges in the past year, so they are probably even rarer than they let on.
My guess is that about half of the L2's and all of the L3+'s have certified a judge, and I would imagine not even all of those people will get these promos. In other words, I wouldn't be surprised if there are significantly less than a thousand of these sent out.
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So yeah... Where do you guys see this starting out/ending up? Looks as though it's even more limited than normal judge foils from the description. Although maybe they're planning on giving them out at events as well? Thoughts?
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I mean is Force of Will specifically different from other judge promos that someone would get for judging some random GP or PT? I know you need to be a level 2 judge at minimum to be allowed to judge in a GP.
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From the Article:
In recognition of this milestone, we sent promotional premium Force of Will out to judges who had certified other judges after 2005. These premium Force of Wills use the art created for the Legacy Championship by Matt Stewart.
In other words, not part of the judge pack but sent out to judges who have recently made new ones, which requires at least lvl 2.
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If these don't appear in the judge packets at all/are only sent out and then never printed again...look at the other card that is also obscenely expensive due to its very tiny print run (full art mutavault.) The difference between mutavault and force of will is that one is niche eternal playable and the other is the glue that holds both formats together/is one of the biggest staples in both formats with ease. Mutavault is worth 700ish. So the sky is the actual limit on foil force of will. Honestly, $400 for a single copy sounds like a bargain.
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Wizards doesn't always print cards to stabilize prices, especially when they're cards that are meant to be rewards. They're not going to print a judge promo and then reprint it when it's too high.
500? How did you calculate that? Do you know how many of them will each of those judges receive? Do you know when they will stop producing them?
I see a lot of people throwing numbers around and not much math.
Where do these numbers come from? 500 seems ridiculously low. I can't imagine that they only printed four sheets.
Yes, demand will be through the roof, but we need better numbers on supply.
So there will be maximum of 1100 copies, but more likely under 1k copies. Maybe as low as 800.
But estimating 1000 copies, maybe quarter of the judges will want to keep theirs, that leaves 750 availlable. First few auction high and then we wait how much stores will pay. This will set the limit. I really hope I can buy one, but have to wait and see. But I do expect this to be the judge foil with the highest price tag, at least for a while.
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I do not see anywhere in the article that says they are not part of the judge pack. The fact that they put the force of will with the others in the pictures as well as it being collector number 4/9 actually suggests to me that they will be distributed in judge packs.
EDIT: Also they announce 8 future promos. I thought that judge promos were released in pairs so force should be one of them.
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I appreciate your maths and your sources. Thank you, that was exactly what we needed to know - facts.
absolutely not
Not at all. Judge promos aren't released in enough numbers to make a difference.
Nope, if judge foil imperial recruiter couldn't lower recruiter's price there is not way this will do anything to FOW's price. Ditto for karakas and bob judge foils, they really didn't do much to the normal (judge karakas might've kept the normal one from skyrocketing as quickly as it would've but that is it.)
Yeah I can see these pushing the levels, but this might just be the start to something even greater (rhetorical as most don't see the bus before they're already in the mist of a dead on impact/hit).
On a side note I'm not impressed with the new picture/art (FORCE OF WILL), kind of sad it was wasted in the same counterspell reference style past art...sad indeed.
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I think it has recently changed such that the requirement for L3 is to be "heavily involved in the preparation and training to getting a new judge certified", so that a judge who does a lot of the work in preparation but doesn't actually administer judge test itself won't have that fact held against him.
Anyway, as a L2 who has certified a couple of judges in the past year, I certainly haven't gotten these promos yet, so I would imagine that this promo won't even be going to all the L2's who have certified judges in the past year, so they are probably even rarer than they let on.
My guess is that about half of the L2's and all of the L3+'s have certified a judge, and I would imagine not even all of those people will get these promos. In other words, I wouldn't be surprised if there are significantly less than a thousand of these sent out.
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