The fact that it can permanently steal Jitte, Swords or a Batterskull and live after is the really interesting part. His +1 lets you push through Brainstorm and Divining Top locks as well, which is pretty solid. I don't *think* he'll be an all-star of the format, due in no small part to the color commitment, but I can see him getting a good deal of play. R/U/X is pretty popular as a color combination, after all.
What's really interesting is its interaction with Batterskull and Jitte. Gaining control of Batterskull with a token (Or attached on any creature) means that there is no point to attacking; the damage from the germ token is immediately washed out from the lifegain itself, and there are a good many scenarios where you can chump block and get further out of range. The player won't be able to re-equip it either. You get to. For the rest of the game. So long as you are not at lethal as well, attacking with a Jitte that they attached shouldn't be profitable either. You control the card, and can activate the ability and remove charge counters at will. If it's lethal, just gain a ton of life. If not, let the charge counters build up. It's a huge boon, and hoses Stoneforge pretty hard.
Note I have a limited experience with Legacy, but this is what it seems to be for me.
Conspiracy *is* an unlimited print-run set technically, but probably won't be opened nearly so much as to actually matter a good deal for the price due to it's limited use in constructed formats (Legal in exactly one format), as well as only going to be a 1-of in EDH. It will likely be price out of range for other casual players, however.
As far as price is concerned, hard to tell. Depends on if he ends up being as good in practice as he is in theory. I could see him getting very spendy, although not nearly so as JtMS. Possibly Lili territory, methinks, given how few will be opened. He's a bit less splashy as they both are, but there won't be nearly as many copies running around. Foils should command quite the premium methinks.
You can't play him in Legacy / Vintage, he's only legal in Commander.
Incorrect. All black-bordered cards are legal in Vintage and Legacy, including new ones that are printed in ancillary products like Conspiracy, Commander, ARchenemy and Planechase.
You can't play him in Legacy / Vintage, he's only legal in Commander.
He'll be legal in Legacy/Vintage. All black-bordered cards generally are(Unless a specific card is banned), regardless of where they were printed. Certain cards from Conspiracy won't be legal, but most will. The ones that won't ill interact with parts of the game that normally one cannot in a game, presumably. The only way he won't be legal is if they out-right ban him specifically, which is not something I see happening given what he does.
All commanders products, for instance, are legal in Legacy. Hence why True-Name Nemesis is legal, even though it was printed in a supplemental.
Foils will be worth a fortune -- if only because he is an extremely cube-worthy card. I think someone nailed it when they said Lili prices long-term. It really just depends on the amount of Conspiracy that is opened.
Foils will be worth a fortune -- if only because he is an extremely cube-worthy card. I think someone nailed it when they said Lili prices long-term. It really just depends on the amount of Conspiracy that is opened.
He MIGHT be legal in Legacy/Vintage. Not all Conspiracy cards will be. he looks pretty "normal" (as opposed to veering into silver-border-land), so he'll PROBABLY be legal. Can't say for sure, though.
Also, it doesn't actually say that Conspiracy will have foils. From the Mothership:
Set Name: Magic: The Gathering–Conspiracy
Number of Cards: 210
Release Date: June 6, 2014
Three-Letter Abbreviation: CNS
Twitter Hashtag: #MTGCNS
Languages: English, Japanese, Chinese Simplified
Available in: Booster Packs
Key Points:
Multiplayer Booster Draft Format
15 Card Booster Packs (MSRP $3.99)
36 Packs per Display
Black-Bordered Cards
Magic: The Gathering—Conspiracy will not be released on Magic Online, but certain cards from the set will be made available in Vintage Masters.
There are sixty-five new cards in Conspiracy. Fifty-two of the new cards will be legal in Legacy and Vintage; thirteen cards will not.
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The 13 cards that will not be legal are probably the ones that interact with drafting. As it wouldnt make sens to play them in constructed magic.
Hence why I used the words "Might" and "Probably" so prominently.
However, that's no reason to ban Cogwork Librarian. He's just a creature whose ability is irrelevant. Command Tower is legal in Legacy and Vintage, even though it doesn't do anything outside of the Commander format. The ones that will not be legal likely have mechanics that work well in multiplayer, but are too powerful for duels. Perhaps they have effects that hurt your teammate, for example - a downside that disappears when you have no teammate.
Ancestral Syphon UB
Instant
Target player draws three cards. Your teammate discards 3 cards.
Powerful Bolt R
Instant
Deal 5 damage to target creature or player, and 3 damage to your teammate and a creature he or she controls.
Something like that.
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You can't play him in Legacy / Vintage, he's only legal in Commander.
Incorrect. All black-bordered cards are legal in Vintage and Legacy, including new ones that are printed in ancillary products like Conspiracy, Commander, ARchenemy and Planechase.
Incorrect. While he will be legal in Vintage and Legacy, the fact he has a black-border has nothing to do with it, nor are black-bordered cards automatically legal as opposed to, say, white-bordered cards.
What's really interesting is its interaction with Batterskull and Jitte. Gaining control of Batterskull with a token (Or attached on any creature) means that there is no point to attacking; the damage from the germ token is immediately washed out from the lifegain itself, and there are a good many scenarios where you can chump block and get further out of range.
Lifelink doesn't work like that. Gaining control of Batterskull on an opponents germ will not do anything until the creature dies, or you can equip it elsewhere.
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Top 4 Legacy Open SCG: Dallas/FortWorth 2012
Top 64 Legacy Open SCG: Dallas/FortWorth 2013
SCG Open Trial (2013): 1st
Sorry, but there's a lot of misinformation out there about how cards are determined to be legal in what format ("It's a black border!" "It's a supplemental product!" etc.) that they need to be corrected lest less experienced players be led astray.
Sorry, but there's a lot of misinformation out there about how cards are determined to be legal in what format ("It's a black border!" "It's a supplemental product!" etc.) that they need to be corrected lest less experienced players be led astray.
Cards are determined to be legal in a format when WoTC says they are. How hard is that?
use magiccards.info and it lists all the formats it is legal in.
If it ISN'T a legit magic card (for exmaple... the cards from Theros and BotG releases like The General - forgot what they are called) are special circumstances. Such as the conspiracy cards will be.
What's really interesting is its interaction with Batterskull and Jitte. Gaining control of Batterskull with a token (Or attached on any creature) means that there is no point to attacking; the damage from the germ token is immediately washed out from the lifegain itself, and there are a good many scenarios where you can chump block and get further out of range.
Lifelink doesn't work like that. Gaining control of Batterskull on an opponents germ will not do anything until the creature dies, or you can equip it elsewhere.
Sure doesn't. Momentary brainfart where I was still operating under Armadillo Cloak days.
Still a very solid effect in the Stoneblade MUs for other reasons.
Sorry, but there's a lot of misinformation out there about how cards are determined to be legal in what format ("It's a black border!" "It's a supplemental product!" etc.) that they need to be corrected lest less experienced players be led astray.
^Yup, this. My friend called a judge on a guy at a GP, because said guy was playing Undermine in Modern -- he thought it was legal because of modern black border.
Reprints the one card that people point to when saying that art objectifies women.
Well done Wizards.
Liliana does not objectify women in any way at all. We have gotten to a point in our society that every single picture of a women must be objectifying a women in some negative way......blah blah blah.. That is not the case. (((Sarcasm)))Picture of a girl drinking a milk shake, must be sex related and putting women down, picture of girl sitting on a beach, picture of a girl driving a car, picture of a girl on the moon at a new space station.)))
You have a picture of an attractive strong power women who girls dress up as for anime conventions. What more do you want? The picture is fine, happy to see a reprint. Sick of of seeing people claim that everything in existence must be putting women down. Then all I have to do is replace the word "women" with anything else to get the same mentality; fish, cats, arabs, blacks, jews, men, environment, whites, chinese, old people, etc. It doesn't matter what word I put in. Stop sucking life out of everything man. That artwork of her is awesome. Stop putting stuff down man. Just stop. If the picture was really as negative as you claim she would totally nude, in a kitchen, making sandwiches and giving blow jobs. Her abilities would be horrible as well. +1 do nothing -2 do nothing -6 do nothing. Instead liliana of the veil is an amazing planeswalker comparable to jace, the mind sculpter with great art to appreciate.
My suggestion listen to some comedy radio for a while, pandora is free, youtube is free there is something out there for you. ***** go make fun of somebody. The whole world is so serious and campaigning for some cause, or someones rights, everything is a hate crime, racist, sexist. blah blah blah.
"O no mcdonalds must be slandering a hate crime against skinny people every time they make a big mac." hahaha jeeze You're just someone perpetuating another groups negative perspective that they've made you believe is correct. Look at the picture for a hour and tell me what's wrong with it? I don't see anything.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
As previously stated, Dack's price will be heavily dependent on the print run of Conspiracy, which from what I understand will be fairly similar to any other set. This almost certainly means the market will be flooded for a while. If I had to make an estimate of his price in the short term, I would probably say that he would initially stabilize around $25 to $30, since even great cards have trouble exceeding that range when the market is relatively flooded and they are easy find. If Conspiracy is of more limited availability than I expect it to be, then he will naturally be higher.
I think the speculation about long term price trends for him are pretty accurate though... He will probably follow something similar to the Liliana of the Veil pattern.
^Yup, this. My friend called a judge on a guy at a GP, because said guy was playing Undermine in Modern -- he thought it was legal because of modern black border.
Standard and Modern are defined in terms of specific sets, minus their respective banned lists.
Legacy and Vintage are not; in those formats, every card WotC has ever released is fair game for those formats, so long as the format doesn't ban it and it's a genuine black- or white-bordered card, with standard back (or INN-block double-face), non-square corners, and not damaged in a way that would make it marked.
Thus the fact that Dack Fayden is a black-bordered card is what "counts"; the gold borders (and non-standard corners/backs) of some promotional products is what makes them not be legal, and the silver borders of Unglued/Unhinged makes them not be legal.
And while it has been stated that not all cards in Conspiracy will be Legacy/Vintage legal, it's a safe bet that it's because they will fail some part of the criteria listed above (and an almost-as-safe bet that those will be the new card type spoiled at the PAX panel; my personal guess is they'll have non-standard backs and they'll be a one-per-pack thing the way the DFCs were in INN block).
What's really interesting is its interaction with Batterskull and Jitte. Gaining control of Batterskull with a token (Or attached on any creature) means that there is no point to attacking; the damage from the germ token is immediately washed out from the lifegain itself, and there are a good many scenarios where you can chump block and get further out of range.
Lifelink doesn't work like that. Gaining control of Batterskull on an opponents germ will not do anything until the creature dies, or you can equip it elsewhere.
Ummm...if you gain control of someone's Batterskull you don't get the creature it's attached to. If you gain control of someone's Germ token with a Batterskull attached to it, you don't gain life because you don't control the Batterskull.
I swear I've never read posts this bad before. Any card printed, unless specifically detailed not Legacy/Vintage legal, is Legacy/Vintage legal upon printing. Legacy and Vintage allow for every card in the game of Magic to be played in that format unless it is placed on the banned/restricted list for that format or from an "UN" set.
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"Talkin outta turn....That's a paddlin'. Starin' at my sandals....That's a paddlin'. Paddlin' the school canoe....You better believe that's a paddlin'!" --Jasper
Legacy and Vintage are not; in those formats, every card WotC has ever released is fair game for those formats, so long as the format doesn't ban it and it's a genuine black- or white-bordered card, with standard back (or INN-block double-face), non-square corners, and not damaged in a way that would make it marked.
This is incorrect, as I've explained before. If Conspiracy cards were purple-border, they would be by default Legacy and Vintage legal. Border color is only relevant for TOURNAMENT legality, not FORMAT legality.
Thus the fact that Dack Fayden is a black-bordered card is what "counts";
Also incorrect. The new Conspiracy card type is black-bordered, but will not be Legacy and Vintage legal. The border color does NOT "count" in any way. It would be just as accurate to say "Dack Fayden is black-bordered, so it's Modern legal" when in fact it is not.
the gold borders (and non-standard corners/backs) of some promotional products is what makes them not be legal, and the silver borders of Unglued/Unhinged makes them not be legal.
Again, incorrect; silver bordered cards are only illegal in tournaments unless specifically banned.
It's unfortunate that so many people get this wrong.
Legacy and Vintage are not; in those formats, every card WotC has ever released is fair game for those formats, so long as the format doesn't ban it and it's a genuine black- or white-bordered card, with standard back (or INN-block double-face), non-square corners, and not damaged in a way that would make it marked.
This is incorrect, as I've explained before. If Conspiracy cards were purple-border, they would be by default Legacy and Vintage legal. Border color is only relevant for TOURNAMENT legality, not FORMAT legality.
Thus the fact that Dack Fayden is a black-bordered card is what "counts";
Also incorrect. The new Conspiracy card type is black-bordered, but will not be Legacy and Vintage legal. The border color does NOT "count" in any way. It would be just as accurate to say "Dack Fayden is black-bordered, so it's Modern legal" when in fact it is not.
the gold borders (and non-standard corners/backs) of some promotional products is what makes them not be legal, and the silver borders of Unglued/Unhinged makes them not be legal.
Again, incorrect; silver bordered cards are only illegal in tournaments unless specifically banned.
It's unfortunate that so many people get this wrong.
You are ridiculous! To be that nit-picky about the terms "format" and "tournament" when talking about legally playable is absurd. The intent of the conversation was to distinguish between the Silver bordered cards of the "UN" sets and the gold bordered Champion Deck cards....that are not tourny legal because they can't be played without sleeves due to their backing. Additionally, the cards in the UN sets are specifically not tourny legal or format legal because Wizards specifically made them so when they released them....regardless of their border color. THey only made the lands "black bordered" so as not to confuse players AND to maintain the aesthetic of card design with the rest of a player's deck.
That said....Dack IS Vintage and Legacy Tournament playable.
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"Talkin outta turn....That's a paddlin'. Starin' at my sandals....That's a paddlin'. Paddlin' the school canoe....You better believe that's a paddlin'!" --Jasper
The intent of the conversation was to distinguish between the Silver bordered cards of the "UN" sets and the gold bordered Champion Deck cards....that are not tourny legal because they can't be played without sleeves due to their backing.
The intent of this conversation is what formats Dack Fayden is legal in, and whether or not "black-bordered" determines that. It does not.
Additionally, the cards in the UN sets are specifically not tourny legal or format legal because Wizards specifically made them so when they released them....regardless of their border color. THey only made the lands "black bordered" so as not to confuse players AND to maintain the aesthetic of card design with the rest of a player's deck.
This is again incorrect. If you check the rules for format legality, you will find that "[Legacy|Vintage] decks may consist of cards from all Magic card sets, any edition of the core set, and all special sets, supplements, and promotional printings released by Wizards of the Coast." Unglued and Unhinged cards are absolutely Magic card sets, and are thus legal. The silver border is what makes them illegal under *tournament rules*. This is why the basic lands are legal.
If you gain control of someone's Germ token with a Batterskull attached to it, you don't gain life because you don't control the Batterskull.
Incorrect. Batterskull gives the creature Lifelink and Vigilance. If you control the creature, you get the life from Lifelink. It doesn't matter who controls the Batterskull because it's the creature that has the abilities.
ANYWHO, back on topic. Since Dack won't be Modern or Standard legal, I think his pricing has a ceiling that is nowhere near Liliana of the Veil's. I'm thinking $20-$25 range shortly after release, with prices falling to around $15 as more people draft the set.
There have been so many ads from WOTC saying "Dack Fayden is the greatest thief of the multiverse" so I expect a rather high preorder price. He is best buddies with JTMS. I think there could be a deck there. And then of course commander/cube. I think a foil would be a solid investment and should eventually reach Liliana prices as I do not think he is ever going to be printed again outside conspiracy since he is not intended for modern. Technically LotV could be reprinted, but for story reasons will probably not, unless it is in some supplemental product.
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Currently offering 2 non-foil Kolighan's Command for a Date Stamped foil!
This is incorrect, as I've explained before. If Conspiracy cards were purple-border, they would be by default Legacy and Vintage legal. Border color is only relevant for TOURNAMENT legality, not FORMAT legality.
I finally see where your misconception lies.
In order to be format-legal, a card must first be tournament-authorized. A purple-bordered card could not be Legacy legal because it could not an authorized card for tournament play.
Dack Fayden is legal in Legacy/Vintage because Legacy and Vintage are defined as essentially all cards released by WotC, minus the banned list. Which means the only way to differentiate a legal from non-legal card is to ask whether it's on the banned list and whether it meets the requirements of a tournament-authorized card.
In other words, the way we know Dack is legal for Legacy/Vintage is that Dack meets the criteria of a tournament-authorized card. Border color is one of those criteria, which is why people mention it. Those criteria, should you be interested in actually reading them, can be found in section 3.3 of the Magic Tournament Rules.
Beyond that, if you'd like to continue arguing with me about how I don't know what makes something legal, I'd invite you to pass the L3 exam first
SirBruce, can you please stop? This is the second thread you've turned into a debate on card border and format legality, and not only are the details you're quibbling about meaningless, but they have no relevance to this thread. I find the nitpicking on this especially ironic given that you're unaware that Survival of the Fittest and Necropotence are banned in Legacy.
On the actually topic, I think it's nearly impossible to predict a value for Dack until we know what else is in the set and what the availability is like. If the print run is small or the set is unpopular, it will be a rather expensive card regardless of how much play it sees (Voice of Resurgence phenomenon). If the set is mass-produced and they reprint fetches, Wasteland, Force of Will, and Tarmogoyf (an extreme example that won't actually happen, I realize), it will be relatively cheap while the set is in print no matter how much play it sees.
With 3 CMC, some relevant abilities, and a blue mana symbol it will see some amount of Legacy play but without knowing how much Conspiracy boosters are likely to be cracked it's tough to estimate a price.
What's really interesting is its interaction with Batterskull and Jitte. Gaining control of Batterskull with a token (Or attached on any creature) means that there is no point to attacking; the damage from the germ token is immediately washed out from the lifegain itself, and there are a good many scenarios where you can chump block and get further out of range. The player won't be able to re-equip it either. You get to. For the rest of the game. So long as you are not at lethal as well, attacking with a Jitte that they attached shouldn't be profitable either. You control the card, and can activate the ability and remove charge counters at will. If it's lethal, just gain a ton of life. If not, let the charge counters build up. It's a huge boon, and hoses Stoneforge pretty hard.
Note I have a limited experience with Legacy, but this is what it seems to be for me.
Conspiracy *is* an unlimited print-run set technically, but probably won't be opened nearly so much as to actually matter a good deal for the price due to it's limited use in constructed formats (Legal in exactly one format), as well as only going to be a 1-of in EDH. It will likely be price out of range for other casual players, however.
As far as price is concerned, hard to tell. Depends on if he ends up being as good in practice as he is in theory. I could see him getting very spendy, although not nearly so as JtMS. Possibly Lili territory, methinks, given how few will be opened. He's a bit less splashy as they both are, but there won't be nearly as many copies running around. Foils should command quite the premium methinks.
Incorrect. All black-bordered cards are legal in Vintage and Legacy, including new ones that are printed in ancillary products like Conspiracy, Commander, ARchenemy and Planechase.
He'll be legal in Legacy/Vintage. All black-bordered cards generally are(Unless a specific card is banned), regardless of where they were printed. Certain cards from Conspiracy won't be legal, but most will. The ones that won't ill interact with parts of the game that normally one cannot in a game, presumably. The only way he won't be legal is if they out-right ban him specifically, which is not something I see happening given what he does.
All commanders products, for instance, are legal in Legacy. Hence why True-Name Nemesis is legal, even though it was printed in a supplemental.
He MIGHT be legal in Legacy/Vintage. Not all Conspiracy cards will be. he looks pretty "normal" (as opposed to veering into silver-border-land), so he'll PROBABLY be legal. Can't say for sure, though.
Also, it doesn't actually say that Conspiracy will have foils. From the Mothership:
Set Name: Magic: The Gathering–Conspiracy
Number of Cards: 210
Release Date: June 6, 2014
Three-Letter Abbreviation: CNS
Twitter Hashtag: #MTGCNS
Languages: English, Japanese, Chinese Simplified
Available in: Booster Packs
Key Points:
Multiplayer Booster Draft Format
15 Card Booster Packs (MSRP $3.99)
36 Packs per Display
Black-Bordered Cards
Magic: The Gathering—Conspiracy will not be released on Magic Online, but certain cards from the set will be made available in Vintage Masters.
There are sixty-five new cards in Conspiracy. Fifty-two of the new cards will be legal in Legacy and Vintage; thirteen cards will not.
Hence why I used the words "Might" and "Probably" so prominently.
However, that's no reason to ban Cogwork Librarian. He's just a creature whose ability is irrelevant. Command Tower is legal in Legacy and Vintage, even though it doesn't do anything outside of the Commander format. The ones that will not be legal likely have mechanics that work well in multiplayer, but are too powerful for duels. Perhaps they have effects that hurt your teammate, for example - a downside that disappears when you have no teammate.
Ancestral Syphon UB
Instant
Target player draws three cards. Your teammate discards 3 cards.
Powerful Bolt R
Instant
Deal 5 damage to target creature or player, and 3 damage to your teammate and a creature he or she controls.
Something like that.
Incorrect. While he will be legal in Vintage and Legacy, the fact he has a black-border has nothing to do with it, nor are black-bordered cards automatically legal as opposed to, say, white-bordered cards.
Lifelink doesn't work like that. Gaining control of Batterskull on an opponents germ will not do anything until the creature dies, or you can equip it elsewhere.
Top 64 Legacy Open SCG: Dallas/FortWorth 2013
SCG Open Trial (2013): 1st
Sorry, but there's a lot of misinformation out there about how cards are determined to be legal in what format ("It's a black border!" "It's a supplemental product!" etc.) that they need to be corrected lest less experienced players be led astray.
Cards are determined to be legal in a format when WoTC says they are. How hard is that?
use magiccards.info and it lists all the formats it is legal in.
If it ISN'T a legit magic card (for exmaple... the cards from Theros and BotG releases like The General - forgot what they are called) are special circumstances. Such as the conspiracy cards will be.
Sure doesn't. Momentary brainfart where I was still operating under Armadillo Cloak days.
Still a very solid effect in the Stoneblade MUs for other reasons.
^Yup, this. My friend called a judge on a guy at a GP, because said guy was playing Undermine in Modern -- he thought it was legal because of modern black border.
I think the speculation about long term price trends for him are pretty accurate though... He will probably follow something similar to the Liliana of the Veil pattern.
Standard and Modern are defined in terms of specific sets, minus their respective banned lists.
Legacy and Vintage are not; in those formats, every card WotC has ever released is fair game for those formats, so long as the format doesn't ban it and it's a genuine black- or white-bordered card, with standard back (or INN-block double-face), non-square corners, and not damaged in a way that would make it marked.
Thus the fact that Dack Fayden is a black-bordered card is what "counts"; the gold borders (and non-standard corners/backs) of some promotional products is what makes them not be legal, and the silver borders of Unglued/Unhinged makes them not be legal.
And while it has been stated that not all cards in Conspiracy will be Legacy/Vintage legal, it's a safe bet that it's because they will fail some part of the criteria listed above (and an almost-as-safe bet that those will be the new card type spoiled at the PAX panel; my personal guess is they'll have non-standard backs and they'll be a one-per-pack thing the way the DFCs were in INN block).
----
Lightning Bolts don't kill creatures. State-based actions kill creatures.
Ummm...if you gain control of someone's Batterskull you don't get the creature it's attached to. If you gain control of someone's Germ token with a Batterskull attached to it, you don't gain life because you don't control the Batterskull.
I swear I've never read posts this bad before. Any card printed, unless specifically detailed not Legacy/Vintage legal, is Legacy/Vintage legal upon printing. Legacy and Vintage allow for every card in the game of Magic to be played in that format unless it is placed on the banned/restricted list for that format or from an "UN" set.
This is incorrect, as I've explained before. If Conspiracy cards were purple-border, they would be by default Legacy and Vintage legal. Border color is only relevant for TOURNAMENT legality, not FORMAT legality.
Also incorrect. The new Conspiracy card type is black-bordered, but will not be Legacy and Vintage legal. The border color does NOT "count" in any way. It would be just as accurate to say "Dack Fayden is black-bordered, so it's Modern legal" when in fact it is not.
Again, incorrect; silver bordered cards are only illegal in tournaments unless specifically banned.
It's unfortunate that so many people get this wrong.
You are ridiculous! To be that nit-picky about the terms "format" and "tournament" when talking about legally playable is absurd. The intent of the conversation was to distinguish between the Silver bordered cards of the "UN" sets and the gold bordered Champion Deck cards....that are not tourny legal because they can't be played without sleeves due to their backing. Additionally, the cards in the UN sets are specifically not tourny legal or format legal because Wizards specifically made them so when they released them....regardless of their border color. THey only made the lands "black bordered" so as not to confuse players AND to maintain the aesthetic of card design with the rest of a player's deck.
That said....Dack IS Vintage and Legacy Tournament playable.
Not at all. I was simply correcting your misinformation.
The intent of this conversation is what formats Dack Fayden is legal in, and whether or not "black-bordered" determines that. It does not.
This is again incorrect. If you check the rules for format legality, you will find that "[Legacy|Vintage] decks may consist of cards from all Magic card sets, any edition of the core set, and all special sets, supplements, and promotional printings released by Wizards of the Coast." Unglued and Unhinged cards are absolutely Magic card sets, and are thus legal. The silver border is what makes them illegal under *tournament rules*. This is why the basic lands are legal.
Incorrect. Batterskull gives the creature Lifelink and Vigilance. If you control the creature, you get the life from Lifelink. It doesn't matter who controls the Batterskull because it's the creature that has the abilities.
ANYWHO, back on topic. Since Dack won't be Modern or Standard legal, I think his pricing has a ceiling that is nowhere near Liliana of the Veil's. I'm thinking $20-$25 range shortly after release, with prices falling to around $15 as more people draft the set.
Currently offering 2 non-foil Kolighan's Command for a Date Stamped foil!
convert bulk into good cards? PucaTrade - https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/21195
Ebay - decks/Promos/DVDs
Trade thread (constantly updated)
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I finally see where your misconception lies.
In order to be format-legal, a card must first be tournament-authorized. A purple-bordered card could not be Legacy legal because it could not an authorized card for tournament play.
Dack Fayden is legal in Legacy/Vintage because Legacy and Vintage are defined as essentially all cards released by WotC, minus the banned list. Which means the only way to differentiate a legal from non-legal card is to ask whether it's on the banned list and whether it meets the requirements of a tournament-authorized card.
In other words, the way we know Dack is legal for Legacy/Vintage is that Dack meets the criteria of a tournament-authorized card. Border color is one of those criteria, which is why people mention it. Those criteria, should you be interested in actually reading them, can be found in section 3.3 of the Magic Tournament Rules.
Beyond that, if you'd like to continue arguing with me about how I don't know what makes something legal, I'd invite you to pass the L3 exam first
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Lightning Bolts don't kill creatures. State-based actions kill creatures.
On the actually topic, I think it's nearly impossible to predict a value for Dack until we know what else is in the set and what the availability is like. If the print run is small or the set is unpopular, it will be a rather expensive card regardless of how much play it sees (Voice of Resurgence phenomenon). If the set is mass-produced and they reprint fetches, Wasteland, Force of Will, and Tarmogoyf (an extreme example that won't actually happen, I realize), it will be relatively cheap while the set is in print no matter how much play it sees.
With 3 CMC, some relevant abilities, and a blue mana symbol it will see some amount of Legacy play but without knowing how much Conspiracy boosters are likely to be cracked it's tough to estimate a price.
Rancored Elf will cancel your order if prices go up. Read about him and other shady vendors here.
My Trade Thread!