Prophetic Flamespeaker seems really good. It can potentially trigger twice in one turn, 4 in OMFGWTFBBQ land if Aurelia is in play. It absolutely punishes decks that do not play removal. The 1 power is a drawback, but it can help you find cards that will seal the deal in an aggro red deck (burn, more creatures, etc). I could easily see it in a R/G aggro shell with Ghor Clan for insta-wins.
It does die to removal, but it will be around when all the good removal rotates.
It's definitely one to watch out for. As for cards to combo it with... look no further than madcap skills. I bet some aggro deck arises from this (maybe even good old RDW)
I will laugh so hard if I ever see that happen.
I do really like the card, though. $5 seems about right.
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Flamespeaker occupies this weird space between Chandra Pyromaster, who is playable in fringe decks and quite good in those decks, and Markov Blademaster, who similarly promised to be an awesome red dork for 1RR contingent on surviving to get in that initial damage. For Flamespeaker, that initial poke is what pays for him, and for Blademaster, it is what makes her a legitimate threat.
I kind of doubt Flamespeaker does anything. In standard, he needs good removal to open the way for him, because he loses fights with most of the 3 drops other decks use. Except Specter, which flies over him. Red removal is pretty bad right now compared to what it has been in the past. In older formats, he seems to compare unfavorably to Dimir Cutpurse, another 3 drop that gives similar card advantage.
I predict him going to $10 at release on hype, dropping slowly to $5 over time in Standard, and eventually settling around Dimir Cutpurse in the long term.
I'm curious about Prophetic Flamespeaker since they can still be gotten close to $5 on pre-release in some places. It has potential to take off, but how high and how fast is really the question.
Master of the Feast $4 way too low. No wonder it was a run out. Looks like $6-$10 card.
The drawback is huge but because the drawback doesn't stop combat or force you to sack anything or lose life it is very easy to play around. In other words the beating doesn't stop because your opponent gets card advantage. It's also black and that counts in the current meta with Doom Blade and Lifebane Zombie.
Master of the Feast $4 way too low. No wonder it was a run out. Looks like $6-$10 card.
The drawback is huge but because the drawback doesn't stop combat or force you to sack anything or lose life it is very easy to play around. In other words the beating doesn't stop because your opponent gets card advantage. It's also black and that counts in the current meta with Doom Blade and Lifebane Zombie.
Sorry but the demon is certainly jank. Mono Black plays a resource game and every major deck runs answers or will run better answers. Tapping desecration demon for a turn is just wasting a turn so it's not much in a non-token heavy environment, but over the course of a few turns netting extra cards is much, much worse.
I'm not seeing master of the feast myself. Herald of Torment seems much better and is only a $2 card. True these two don't directly compete for a spot... but they serve a similar role and are a good comparison in my mind. Although by that logic this is a junk rare since I think it's worse than a $2 card. Time will tell... but master of the feast has a HUGE downside for not as huge gains compared to blacks other options.
For Prophetic Flamespeaker... comparing it to Master of Cruelties is not a fair comparison. Master is a 5 drop (vs a 3 drop) and does not have trample and double strike. Trample and double strike are a potent combo that make it MUCH easier for this guy to get through. He does need something to boost his power though... so it is a boom or bust card... I just think the potential for boom is there so he's not a bad spec if you can get him cheap OR you want to play a RDW type deck. He's much better than master of cruelties for standard/competative in my opinion but that doesn't mean he's a sure fire thing.
This set is so awesome. Only 1 $2 mythic being Worst Fears.
Totally worth opening packs. I'm going to buy boxes.
Just in case some didn't get it that was sarcasm.
Most of these mythics are going to drop like a stone. Now that Deicide has been spoiled I doubt any of these god cards are going to be runaway powerful.
Sage of Hours looks like the sleeper to me. If combo decks for him start appearing expect him to jump in value.
I think the value is going to be in powerful non-god creatures and powerful control style cards. Judging what will be good is still difficult without knowing what will be in M15.
Deicide is a bad card that won't see play and won't affect whether gods see play. Sage of Hours is a bad card that dies to Magma Jet, Spark Jolt, Last Breath, Doom Blade, Ultimate Price and really anything. You can throw a Plains on it and I think it'll die. I'm seeing a lot of standard only cards that might be worth more as archetypes evolve, but nothing eternal playable as of yet.
This set is so awesome. Only 1 $2 mythic being Worst Fears.
Totally worth opening packs. I'm going to buy boxes.
Just in case some didn't get it that was sarcasm.
Most of these mythics are going to drop like a stone. Now that Deicide has been spoiled I doubt any of these god cards are going to be runaway powerful.
Sage of Hours looks like the sleeper to me. If combo decks for him start appearing expect him to jump in value.
I think the value is going to be in powerful non-god creatures and powerful control style cards. Judging what will be good is still difficult without knowing what will be in M15.
Deicide is a bad card that won't see play and won't affect whether gods see play. Sage of Hours is a bad card that dies to Magma Jet, Spark Jolt, Last Breath, Doom Blade, Ultimate Price and really anything. You can throw a Plains on it and I think it'll die. I'm seeing a lot of standard only cards that might be worth more as archetypes evolve, but nothing eternal playable as of yet.
This set is so awesome. Only 1 $2 mythic being Worst Fears.
Totally worth opening packs. I'm going to buy boxes.
Just in case some didn't get it that was sarcasm.
Most of these mythics are going to drop like a stone. Now that Deicide has been spoiled I doubt any of these god cards are going to be runaway powerful.
Sage of Hours looks like the sleeper to me. If combo decks for him start appearing expect him to jump in value.
I think the value is going to be in powerful non-god creatures and powerful control style cards. Judging what will be good is still difficult without knowing what will be in M15.
with all these God's rrunning around, how can you say this is a bad card? The only downside which is not a huge one is that it can only be played in white
Deicide is a bad card that won't see play and won't affect whether gods see play. Sage of Hours is a bad card that dies to Magma Jet, Spark Jolt, Last Breath, Doom Blade, Ultimate Price and really anything. You can throw a Plains on it and I think it'll die. I'm seeing a lot of standard only cards that might be worth more as archetypes evolve, but nothing eternal playable as of yet.
This set is so awesome. Only 1 $2 mythic being Worst Fears.
Totally worth opening packs. I'm going to buy boxes.
Just in case some didn't get it that was sarcasm.
Most of these mythics are going to drop like a stone. Now that Deicide has been spoiled I doubt any of these god cards are going to be runaway powerful.
Sage of Hours looks like the sleeper to me. If combo decks for him start appearing expect him to jump in value.
I think the value is going to be in powerful non-god creatures and powerful control style cards. Judging what will be good is still difficult without knowing what will be in M15.
bad? that is funny, considering revoke existence see's play now mainboard in U/W control, Deicide is a better Revoke that should replace in at the very least in sideboard of control decks. The only reason it isn't as good is it doesn't exile artifacts, however all artifacts other than pithing needle we care about exiling are also enchantments.
Decent card evaluation is a huge part of speccing. Deicide is .10 junk.
1) Who cares if you snag the extra copies of gods in their deck. Gods aren't even win cons, they're win-mores, and except for Thassa played as 2x max.
2) Instant speed is nice, but Unravel the Aether is also instant and tucking is as 99.9999% as good as exiling in the current standard meta
3) Revoke Existence has the utility of hitting Artifacts as well as Enchantments. It is sorcery speed, but the dual purpose makes up for it
4) Selesnya Charm hits most gods anyways. The gods worth hitting anyhow.
Things that can make Deicde decent in the future
1) They print more gods in M15 and in the next block
2) Artifacts become a non-consideration in M15 and the next block
3) Standard becomes insanely slow and you have people playing "Super friends Gods". Even then...not really.
4) They ban Revoke Existence and Unravel the Aether
tl;dr - gods already have hosers and they aren't even powerful enough to need a niche hoser like this.
Deicide is a bad card that won't see play and won't affect whether gods see play. Sage of Hours is a bad card that dies to Magma Jet, Spark Jolt, Last Breath, Doom Blade, Ultimate Price and really anything. You can throw a Plains on it and I think it'll die. I'm seeing a lot of standard only cards that might be worth more as archetypes evolve, but nothing eternal playable as of yet.
This set is so awesome. Only 1 $2 mythic being Worst Fears.
Totally worth opening packs. I'm going to buy boxes.
Just in case some didn't get it that was sarcasm.
Most of these mythics are going to drop like a stone. Now that Deicide has been spoiled I doubt any of these god cards are going to be runaway powerful.
Sage of Hours looks like the sleeper to me. If combo decks for him start appearing expect him to jump in value.
I think the value is going to be in powerful non-god creatures and powerful control style cards. Judging what will be good is still difficult without knowing what will be in M15.
bad? that is funny, considering revoke existence see's play now mainboard in U/W control, Deicide is a better Revoke that should replace in at the very least in sideboard of control decks. The only reason it isn't as good is it doesn't exile artifacts, however all artifacts other than pithing needle we care about exiling are also enchantments.
Deicide is bulk, but if you can get them at bulk early in their run in standard, it might be worth it. All you need is a deck that features a God or two prominently to become an important part of the metagame and this could be a very powerful sideboard card, justifying a $5.00 or so price tag.
So, I guess, wait for it to tank before buying in, but if you think the Gods are the real deal, it's not bad to buy lots of them at bulk.
I think Deicide will hold some value after rotation, I mean right now against mono-blue devotion Thassa is usually quite backbreaking and I would prefer to just remove all Thassa's. It's really annoying when you remove their Thassa and they just go play another one or something the next turn.
If we start seeing 1-2 more quite good standard decks that play 4 copies or more of gods and are vulnerable to this card it could become a 2-3 dollar trade card quite easily. Early on I advise dumping them especially if you can get 3-4 in trade or more, but once they tumble down to 1 dollar trade or less I will be looking to pick some up.
I will be honest: I don't think a single card spoiled this far in this set (except maybe Mana Confluence, which is a stretch given how popular City of Brass is) is powerful enough to maintain a 5$ price tag outside of being a mythic/god/planeswalker/etc and having automatic casual appeal. Athreos and Ajani are probably Standard playable, which means they will stay 15 or higher due to being small-third-set mythics without much to counterweight them in the rest of the set (and even 15 might be a stretch), but none of the nonland rares that I have seen so far strike me as anything better than bulk status in a vacuum, like actually none at all, and that is downright pitiful. As far as I can tell at this point in the spoiler season, this set is a serious stinker.
On the plus side, I can foresee Limited being really, really good with this block when it's complete. This set looks like a great way to kick off a difficult, deep, skill-testing, interesting draft experience and I have to give Wizards some serious props for that. The challenge of printing Good Cards that don't wildly unbalance non-eternal formats is daunting. I might be ok with a return to a Delver/Pod Standard but I know Wizards (and a significant chunk of the player base) is not.
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I'm always looking for foil Madcap Skills and Ghitu Fire-Eater, [trade thread link forthcoming]
There's a lot of cheap rares out there along with a lot of expensive mythics.
I'd like to think some of the rares will be worth a bit more and some of the mythics will be worth a bit less.
Mana Confluence is too obvious. It will retain a high value as long as it remains standard legal. Not astronomical prices but people will not let them go cheap.
Most of the rares are between $1 and $3. None of the creatures look particularly powerful and all the enchantments seem to be overcosted.
The only real card advantage engine is Eidolon of Blossoms. I'm going to go with that as a riser.
Much of the non-creatue rares are strive cards and I just don't know how such mana intensive spells could be that powerful.
Mana Confluence will not keep it's high price. Athreos just become a liability with Deicide. More of the rates look better than the mythics in playability. This will not be a money set.
Mana Confluence will not keep it's high price. Athreos just become a liability with Deicide. More of the rates look better than the mythics in playability. This will not be a money set.
I *love* sets where the rares look better than the mythics. Like BNG, I think that this is a set for cool uncommons, and I approve. It's great that there isn't a ton of obvious value in the set, because that means it'll be easier to get the cards.
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The whole block suffers from gods stealing the mythic slots and not being powerful enough.
On the "plus side", there's a mantra that's oft-repeated around these parts: "Small set, unpopular, hardly opened", also "Third set syndrome". I've used them myself from time to time to explain why this card or that card from Future Sight or Worldwake or Eventide is suddenly sixteen squillion dollars. JOU is shaping up to be another unpopular set, that will have a small printing. Its draft season will even be cut short due to Conspiracy. It might not be a bad thing to pick up anything that you can while it's still cheap - who knows what sort of enablers will be printed 5 years down the line that will transform some cards from zeros to heroes?
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I predict him going to $10 at release on hype, dropping slowly to $5 over time in Standard, and eventually settling around Dimir Cutpurse in the long term.
This strikes me as unlikely, given that Dimir Cutpurse has lower toughness, no trample, no double strike, is rare rather than mythic, requires two colors, and comes from a large rather than small set.
Lower toughness = Not really relevant with a guy whose primary purpose is to swing into the opponent.
No trample = It's a point in favor of the Flamespeaker, sure.
Doublestrike = Another point in favor of Flamespeaker.
Rare v. Mythic = This doesn't really control the demand for the card, though.
Two Colors = That's actually a strike against Flamespeaker. It's much easier to make 1 mana of each color in a two color deck than two mana of the same color in a multicolor deck.
Large v. Small = Maybe, but one is recent and one is old. More important than this is how Cutpurse has been reprinted, I believe.
And above all of that, remember that Cutpurse gives you +2 card advantage that disrupts your opponent and actually puts cards in your hand, which is stronger than giving you access to the cards for just a turn. All in all, Flamespeaker seems like he's just going to settle into Dimir Cutpurse territory in the long run.
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I will laugh so hard if I ever see that happen.
I do really like the card, though. $5 seems about right.
I kind of doubt Flamespeaker does anything. In standard, he needs good removal to open the way for him, because he loses fights with most of the 3 drops other decks use. Except Specter, which flies over him. Red removal is pretty bad right now compared to what it has been in the past. In older formats, he seems to compare unfavorably to Dimir Cutpurse, another 3 drop that gives similar card advantage.
I predict him going to $10 at release on hype, dropping slowly to $5 over time in Standard, and eventually settling around Dimir Cutpurse in the long term.
R Norin the Wary: I've Got a Bad Feeling About This
UG Thrasios & Kydele: Knowledge is Power
RG Borborygmos Enraged: The Breaking of the World
BG The Gitrog Monster: All Glory to the Hypnotoad
WUR Zedruu the Greathearted: Endless Possibilities, One Outcome
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain: What's Dead May Never Die
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The drawback is huge but because the drawback doesn't stop combat or force you to sack anything or lose life it is very easy to play around. In other words the beating doesn't stop because your opponent gets card advantage. It's also black and that counts in the current meta with Doom Blade and Lifebane Zombie.
Prophetic Flamespeaker looks like Master of Cruelties to me. Good if you can get it through but you can't. It's not even as good as Thieving Magpie. $2 mythic. Sorry but it just looks like jank to me.
Sorry but the demon is certainly jank. Mono Black plays a resource game and every major deck runs answers or will run better answers. Tapping desecration demon for a turn is just wasting a turn so it's not much in a non-token heavy environment, but over the course of a few turns netting extra cards is much, much worse.
For Prophetic Flamespeaker... comparing it to Master of Cruelties is not a fair comparison. Master is a 5 drop (vs a 3 drop) and does not have trample and double strike. Trample and double strike are a potent combo that make it MUCH easier for this guy to get through. He does need something to boost his power though... so it is a boom or bust card... I just think the potential for boom is there so he's not a bad spec if you can get him cheap OR you want to play a RDW type deck. He's much better than master of cruelties for standard/competative in my opinion but that doesn't mean he's a sure fire thing.
Multiplayer Decks- Memnarch - Animar, Soul of Elements - Zur, the Enchanter - Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - Food Chain Tazri - Teysa Karlov
Modern BUMill and Bant Spirits.
Thank you Xenphire for the signature!
Totally worth opening packs. I'm going to buy boxes.
Just in case some didn't get it that was sarcasm.
Most of these mythics are going to drop like a stone. Now that Deicide has been spoiled I doubt any of these god cards are going to be runaway powerful.
Sage of Hours looks like the sleeper to me. If combo decks for him start appearing expect him to jump in value.
I think the value is going to be in powerful non-god creatures and powerful control style cards. Judging what will be good is still difficult without knowing what will be in M15.
with all these God's rrunning around, how can you say this is a bad card? The only downside which is not a huge one is that it can only be played in white
bad? that is funny, considering revoke existence see's play now mainboard in U/W control, Deicide is a better Revoke that should replace in at the very least in sideboard of control decks. The only reason it isn't as good is it doesn't exile artifacts, however all artifacts other than pithing needle we care about exiling are also enchantments.
1) Who cares if you snag the extra copies of gods in their deck. Gods aren't even win cons, they're win-mores, and except for Thassa played as 2x max.
2) Instant speed is nice, but Unravel the Aether is also instant and tucking is as 99.9999% as good as exiling in the current standard meta
3) Revoke Existence has the utility of hitting Artifacts as well as Enchantments. It is sorcery speed, but the dual purpose makes up for it
4) Selesnya Charm hits most gods anyways. The gods worth hitting anyhow.
Things that can make Deicde decent in the future
1) They print more gods in M15 and in the next block
2) Artifacts become a non-consideration in M15 and the next block
3) Standard becomes insanely slow and you have people playing "Super friends Gods". Even then...not really.
4) They ban Revoke Existence and Unravel the Aether
tl;dr - gods already have hosers and they aren't even powerful enough to need a niche hoser like this.
So, I guess, wait for it to tank before buying in, but if you think the Gods are the real deal, it's not bad to buy lots of them at bulk.
If we start seeing 1-2 more quite good standard decks that play 4 copies or more of gods and are vulnerable to this card it could become a 2-3 dollar trade card quite easily. Early on I advise dumping them especially if you can get 3-4 in trade or more, but once they tumble down to 1 dollar trade or less I will be looking to pick some up.
Feel free to bid on my cards here!
The decks it's good in could completely dominant other creatures decks and once supreme verdict rotates out it could be a top tier deck.
On the plus side, I can foresee Limited being really, really good with this block when it's complete. This set looks like a great way to kick off a difficult, deep, skill-testing, interesting draft experience and I have to give Wizards some serious props for that. The challenge of printing Good Cards that don't wildly unbalance non-eternal formats is daunting. I might be ok with a return to a Delver/Pod Standard but I know Wizards (and a significant chunk of the player base) is not.
Thanks to Gabgabdevo for the awesome sig image!
I'm always looking for foil Madcap Skills and Ghitu Fire-Eater, [trade thread link forthcoming]
I'd like to think some of the rares will be worth a bit more and some of the mythics will be worth a bit less.
Mana Confluence is too obvious. It will retain a high value as long as it remains standard legal. Not astronomical prices but people will not let them go cheap.
Most of the rares are between $1 and $3. None of the creatures look particularly powerful and all the enchantments seem to be overcosted.
The only real card advantage engine is Eidolon of Blossoms. I'm going to go with that as a riser.
Much of the non-creatue rares are strive cards and I just don't know how such mana intensive spells could be that powerful.
I think Athreos is overhyped. All things considered, he's not much better than Death's Duet.
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Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
I really thought Daybreak Coronet would make this set. Oh well.
Mana Confluence will not keep it's high price. Athreos just become a liability with Deicide. More of the rates look better than the mythics in playability. This will not be a money set.
Multiplayer Decks- Memnarch - Animar, Soul of Elements - Zur, the Enchanter - Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - Food Chain Tazri - Teysa Karlov
Modern BUMill and Bant Spirits.
Thank you Xenphire for the signature!
I *love* sets where the rares look better than the mythics. Like BNG, I think that this is a set for cool uncommons, and I approve. It's great that there isn't a ton of obvious value in the set, because that means it'll be easier to get the cards.
On the "plus side", there's a mantra that's oft-repeated around these parts: "Small set, unpopular, hardly opened", also "Third set syndrome". I've used them myself from time to time to explain why this card or that card from Future Sight or Worldwake or Eventide is suddenly sixteen squillion dollars. JOU is shaping up to be another unpopular set, that will have a small printing. Its draft season will even be cut short due to Conspiracy. It might not be a bad thing to pick up anything that you can while it's still cheap - who knows what sort of enablers will be printed 5 years down the line that will transform some cards from zeros to heroes?
This strikes me as unlikely, given that Dimir Cutpurse has lower toughness, no trample, no double strike, is rare rather than mythic, requires two colors, and comes from a large rather than small set.
No trample = It's a point in favor of the Flamespeaker, sure.
Doublestrike = Another point in favor of Flamespeaker.
Rare v. Mythic = This doesn't really control the demand for the card, though.
Two Colors = That's actually a strike against Flamespeaker. It's much easier to make 1 mana of each color in a two color deck than two mana of the same color in a multicolor deck.
Large v. Small = Maybe, but one is recent and one is old. More important than this is how Cutpurse has been reprinted, I believe.
And above all of that, remember that Cutpurse gives you +2 card advantage that disrupts your opponent and actually puts cards in your hand, which is stronger than giving you access to the cards for just a turn. All in all, Flamespeaker seems like he's just going to settle into Dimir Cutpurse territory in the long run.