If there is going to be any demand driving this, it is going to be EDH (who only needs 1) and standard (where I'm not sure that land bases aren't already strong enough). It's not going to see much eternal play at all, unless there is some new crazy deck that was just waiting for 8 cities of brass instead of 4.
I agree with most of your post but not this part(bolded). Most of EDHers have more than 1 deck.. At least 2-4. I myself have 12, and 9 of them are 2 colors +
Also there is the casual crowd you forgot.
I think its gonna stay higher dans 5$ until reprint(if) and probably a 15-20$ card in is standard life.
You're totally off base as far as Vintage and Legacy go. In a format where Tangle Wire is an issue (Vintage) and Rishidan Port is an issue (Legacy) you are foolish to play Cities instead of this guy if you need a five-color land. That is not a marginal difference at all if you hit the particular matchup where it matters.
As a result, people who want to maximize the power of their deck will make the switch. Can you get by with City? Sure, did so before. But now someone running just 4 Cities in Legacy is playing sub-optimally. That will cause upward price pressure.
This is not even mentioning the new archetypes it may spawn. Four color humans was a tier 2 deck in Vintage already, and now it has almost perfect mana.
Well I cannot comment on Vintage because there are no tournaments for it around where I love nor at the GP's I have gone to. It may have some good uses there, but how many vintage players are out there?
I feel that my initial post (a few up) already commented on how heavily City of Brass is played in Legacy -- which is barely at all. I do not expect a narrowly better reprint to increase the playability of city of brass nor of mana confluence. I don't know that mana confluence will spawn new archetypes entirely with an 8x city, but maybe you're right at and it will. Legacy mana bases are already so strong that I just don't see it though.
I will admit that the average EDH player may need one for every deck though. I did not anticipate that, but we'll see what the demand is. I still believe that this card will be a $5 rare at best within a month after release.
I see it at $10ish or around that mark. Standard play? In aggro decks sure but control not at all I suspect. Modern? No one was running city of brass in modern before this and this is a slightly better city although all the cards that care about cities drawback aren't modern legal namely tangle wire and rishadan port. In legacy/vintage? The few decks that run city will replace city with this. There aren't that many decks running city in those formats either.
So demand has to come from EDH. That isn't going to make this a $20 card by any stretch of the imagination. You're talking about a rare at the same level as thoughtseize. Hint: Thoughtseize is a multi format all star while this isn't.
That being said foils of this will have a gigantic premium in all likelihood due to the art in foil probably looking gorgeous and because EDH people like foils as well as some vintage and legacy people. Cube as well. Foil is probably going to be $40 or something high around that number.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
Works with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and is Rishadan Port proof.
It's not the best land ever printed but it will be standard legal and not likely to get a reprint any time soon.
"It will go down, generic name will be printed over and over" yeah that's an opinion but you'll be the one left behind when they hit $40 and you need some for a deck when there is no reprint in sight.
Works with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and is Rishadan Port proof.
It's not the best land ever printed but it will be standard legal and not likely to get a reprint any time soon.
"It will go down, generic name will be printed over and over" yeah that's an opinion but you'll be the one left behind when they hit $40 and you need some for a deck when there is no reprint in sight.
40$? As in, 40$ a piece? for non foil? That's just absurd. The pre-order prices are already absurd, this card WILL fall in price.
Mana isn't that great in Standard right now, so I'm guessing there'll be lots of demand for Mana Confluence there. Two-color aggro decks probably want at least 2 copies.
Mana isn't that great in Standard right now, so I'm guessing there'll be lots of demand for Mana Confluence there. Two-color aggro decks probably want at least 2 copies.
My goodness. So 10x shocks and 10x scrys is considered 'not that great'? What more do you want? Legacy landbases? I can see some fast aggro decks running 2 or so.
Mana isn't that great in Standard right now, so I'm guessing there'll be lots of demand for Mana Confluence there. Two-color aggro decks probably want at least 2 copies.
Depends on the deck. Paying to much life from shock land and Mana Confluence can cost you dearly against burn and Gary (grey merchant) decks. 2 color decks might not need them depending on the cmc cost distribution. 3 color decks will use them, but burning earth might become an auto 4 in side boards to hate them out. You are taking 1 damage and loosing 1 life to use Mana Confluence then. If you drew 2 opening game; the pain will cost you the game.
Way to much hype on this card and suckers are taking the bait. This is not Reflecting Pool people or a REAL pain land where you can add 1 colorless!
Athreos, God of Passage is the best target so far for value. Playable in Modern definitely. $15-20 longterm as many will want it for Standard, EDH, Commander, and Modern. Don't know about Legacy though. Anything that hoses WU and Supreme Verdict decks will be huge.
Works with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and is Rishadan Port proof.
It's not the best land ever printed but it will be standard legal and not likely to get a reprint any time soon.
"It will go down, generic name will be printed over and over" yeah that's an opinion but you'll be the one left behind when they hit $40 and you need some for a deck when there is no reprint in sight.
40$? As in, 40$ a piece? for non foil? That's just absurd. The pre-order prices are already absurd, this card WILL fall in price.
I said "when" as in it could take years. Fetches went up to $50-$100 it just took time. Obviously it isn't gonna happen overnight.
Lands are lands and this will have an impact on eternal formats. It's legacy playable whereas City of Brass isn't because of Rishadan Port. Sure not every deck has a Port but the mere existence of Port makes COB unplayable.
Athreos, God of Passage is the best target so far for value. Playable in Modern definitely. $15-20 longterm as many will want it for Standard, EDH, Commander, and Modern. Don't know about Legacy though. Anything that hoses WU and Supreme Verdict decks will be huge.
Although it is best god spoiled so far, it still is borderline unplayable. Only good vs attraction decks. It is like really bad Thassa. It will never, ever, ever be played in Modern.
I can't wait till melira pod pods for this. how can you be so sure it will not be played in modern?
Athreos, God of Passage is the best target so far for value. Playable in Modern definitely. $15-20 longterm as many will want it for Standard, EDH, Commander, and Modern. Don't know about Legacy though. Anything that hoses WU and Supreme Verdict decks will be huge.
Although it is best god spoiled so far, it still is borderline unplayable. Only good vs attraction decks. It is like really bad Thassa. It will never, ever, ever be played in Modern.
I dissagree. Junk Rock using Goyf's, Knight of the Requuilry, and other dudes can out pace removal decks. 3 life is really hard to constantly pay for certain decks. Affinity might use tho as well with Ravager + Ornathopter or Memnight. It's a stretch in mana but it's dangerous fast as it is anyway. To say it will never be used is an absolute I can not agree with. I don't see it used it in Pod as I can't see what would pulled for it.
Here we go again. The whole set is worth $20 a card
We all know the values need to even out.
4 gods have been spoiled and 3 look a bit flaky. Keranos costs too much mana, Iroas doesn't do anything outside of combat and Kruphix is just a funky EDH general. Godsend is overcosted and easy to play around.
Athreos is decent and might fetch a premium.
Just look at BTG. Gods are $7 with Xenagos at $12. You'd have to have more dollars than sense to pay $20+
Sure these gods are slightly better but I'm not sure how playable that makes them.
Here are my speculative prices now we've seen more of the set.
Ajani $30
Mana Confluence $20
Athreos $16
Keranos $13
Iroas $8
Godsend $4
Kruphix $3
Here we go again. The whole set is worth $20 a card
We all know the values need to even out.
4 gods have been spoiled and 3 look a bit flaky. Keranos costs too much mana, Iroas doesn't do anything outside of combat and Kruphix is just a funky EDH general. Godsend is overcosted and easy to play around.
Athreos is decent and might fetch a premium.
Just look at BTG. Gods are $7 with Xenagos at $12. You'd have to have more dollars than sense to pay $20+
Sure these gods are slightly better but I'm not sure how playable that makes them.
Here are my speculative prices now we've seen more of the set.
Ajani $30
Mana Confluence $20
Athreos $16
Keranos $13
Iroas $8
Godsend $4
Kruphix $3
Fairly spot on, but here is my opinion.
Ajani- $20-15, Elspeth ends games where Ajani just sits there. Why should Ajani keep a higher value?
Mana Confluence- $15-12, Why? Cause of Burning Earth. Certain decks can use it to great advantage, but others may find it to big a leech.
Athreos- $12-10. He is only good in certain decks that can run him. It creates a dead turn 3 for non mana dork decks. After testing it in my BW midrange deck; it is side board material unless I build around it. It basically creates an issues of deciding what I need more: Erebos or Athreos? A junk build might love him.
Way to much hype and I learned my lesson from Theros.
Reprints the one card that people point to when saying that art objectifies women.
Well done Wizards.
Liliana does not objectify women in any way at all. We have gotten to a point in our society that every single picture of a women must be objectifying a women in some negative way......blah blah blah.. That is not the case. (((Sarcasm)))Picture of a girl drinking a milk shake, must be sex related and putting women down, picture of girl sitting on a beach, picture of a girl driving a car, picture of a girl on the moon at a new space station.)))
You have a picture of an attractive strong power women who girls dress up as for anime conventions. What more do you want? The picture is fine, happy to see a reprint. Sick of of seeing people claim that everything in existence must be putting women down. Then all I have to do is replace the word "women" with anything else to get the same mentality; fish, cats, arabs, blacks, jews, men, environment, whites, chinese, old people, etc. It doesn't matter what word I put in. Stop sucking life out of everything man. That artwork of her is awesome. Stop putting stuff down man. Just stop. If the picture was really as negative as you claim she would totally nude, in a kitchen, making sandwiches and giving blow jobs. Her abilities would be horrible as well. +1 do nothing -2 do nothing -6 do nothing. Instead liliana of the veil is an amazing planeswalker comparable to jace, the mind sculpter with great art to appreciate.
My suggestion listen to some comedy radio for a while, pandora is free, youtube is free there is something out there for you. ***** go make fun of somebody. The whole world is so serious and campaigning for some cause, or someones rights, everything is a hate crime, racist, sexist. blah blah blah.
"O no mcdonalds must be slandering a hate crime against skinny people every time they make a big mac." hahaha jeeze You're just someone perpetuating another groups negative perspective that they've made you believe is correct. Look at the picture for a hour and tell me what's wrong with it? I don't see anything.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
City of Brass is a $5 card because it's been reprinted a lot, so Mana Confluence should be at LEAST a $10 card and it will eventually rise higher (after it bottoms out after release) until it's reprinted.
Just because Wizards doesn't reserve list cards it doesn't mean they will reprint quick smart.
Mana Confluence is going to take modern by storm and is legacy playable.
$20 would be a bare minimum. If anybody lets the card go for less they're nuts.
City of Brass has been printed like a million times. This is brand new.
Mana Confluence is a good card. However, it makes no sense to think that it will "take modern by storm" when City of Brass is already in the format and barely played. There is no deck in modern that wants 8 City of Brass.
My guess is that Mana Confluence will be $8 to $12 or so in the long run, barring a reprint. I also agree that City of Brass would be more expensive if it had not been printed so many times.
It's a $20 card because people want it NOW and they are afraid that stock will run out! It's called "New Card Panic". It happens with every set. This card is very good....better than City of Brass which sees play in older formats. Those are the ones jumping on the card right now. It's a rare and will be at least one per box. This will settle to $10 in a month and hover around $12 once Modern fires up in the Summer.
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"Talkin outta turn....That's a paddlin'. Starin' at my sandals....That's a paddlin'. Paddlin' the school canoe....You better believe that's a paddlin'!" --Jasper
SCG has 28 copies of Prophetic Flamespeaker at 5 each. Seems worth it.
Edit: And they're gone: In about one hour they sold out of 80-100 copies of the card at 5. Ebay has them at ten. I would have thought they would have increased the price after the first 40 were sold.
Prophetic Flamespeaker seems really good. It can potentially trigger twice in one turn, 4 in OMFGWTFBBQ land if Aurelia is in play. It absolutely punishes decks that do not play removal. The 1 power is a drawback, but it can help you find cards that will seal the deal in an aggro red deck (burn, more creatures, etc). I could easily see it in a R/G aggro shell with Ghor Clan for insta-wins.
It does die to removal, but it will be around when all the good removal rotates.
SCG has 28 copies of Prophetic Flamespeaker at 5 each. Seems worth it.
Edit: And they're gone: In about one hour they sold out of 80-100 copies of the card at 5. Ebay has them at ten. I would have thought they would have increased the price after the first 40 were sold.
Damn. I would've definitely bought a couple at $5 each. :/ It looks pretty good.
Lol no? It's because original Duals and fetch lands are just better in most every top tier and/or popular deck (do effectively the same thing that Brass/Confluence does with less life-loss and more utility -- Brainstorm, Sensei's Divining Top, Grim Lavamancer, Deathrite Shaman, etc.). And Wasteland being in the format has an effect too; Wastelands beat out any non-basic land -- namely the Duals, which is why fetchlands and basics are very common set-ups in a lot of multi-colored decks.
Neither City of Brass nor Mana Confluence provides that kind of safety net against Wasteland. The constant pings off of Brass/Confluence kinda hurts too...
The few decks that do want City of Brass use it because they have really low land counts and need the correct colors of mana. And they're usually combo decks that will kill you really early on in the game.
Reprints the one card that people point to when saying that art objectifies women.
Well done Wizards.
Liliana does not objectify women in any way at all. We have gotten to a point in our society that every single picture of a women must be objectifying a women in some negative way......blah blah blah.. That is not the case. (((Sarcasm)))Picture of a girl drinking a milk shake, must be sex related and putting women down, picture of girl sitting on a beach, picture of a girl driving a car, picture of a girl on the moon at a new space station.)))
You have a picture of an attractive strong power women who girls dress up as for anime conventions. What more do you want? The picture is fine, happy to see a reprint. Sick of of seeing people claim that everything in existence must be putting women down. Then all I have to do is replace the word "women" with anything else to get the same mentality; fish, cats, arabs, blacks, jews, men, environment, whites, chinese, old people, etc. It doesn't matter what word I put in. Stop sucking life out of everything man. That artwork of her is awesome. Stop putting stuff down man. Just stop. If the picture was really as negative as you claim she would totally nude, in a kitchen, making sandwiches and giving blow jobs. Her abilities would be horrible as well. +1 do nothing -2 do nothing -6 do nothing. Instead liliana of the veil is an amazing planeswalker comparable to jace, the mind sculpter with great art to appreciate.
My suggestion listen to some comedy radio for a while, pandora is free, youtube is free there is something out there for you. ***** go make fun of somebody. The whole world is so serious and campaigning for some cause, or someones rights, everything is a hate crime, racist, sexist. blah blah blah.
"O no mcdonalds must be slandering a hate crime against skinny people every time they make a big mac." hahaha jeeze You're just someone perpetuating another groups negative perspective that they've made you believe is correct. Look at the picture for a hour and tell me what's wrong with it? I don't see anything.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
Prophetic Flamespeaker seems really good. It can potentially trigger twice in one turn, 4 in OMFGWTFBBQ land if Aurelia is in play. It absolutely punishes decks that do not play removal. The 1 power is a drawback, but it can help you find cards that will seal the deal in an aggro red deck (burn, more creatures, etc). I could easily see it in a R/G aggro shell with Ghor Clan for insta-wins.
It does die to removal, but it will be around when all the good removal rotates.
It's definitely one to watch out for. As for cards to combo it with... look no further than madcap skills. I bet some aggro deck arises from this (maybe even good old RDW)
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I agree with most of your post but not this part(bolded). Most of EDHers have more than 1 deck.. At least 2-4. I myself have 12, and 9 of them are 2 colors +
Also there is the casual crowd you forgot.
I think its gonna stay higher dans 5$ until reprint(if) and probably a 15-20$ card in is standard life.
Well I cannot comment on Vintage because there are no tournaments for it around where I love nor at the GP's I have gone to. It may have some good uses there, but how many vintage players are out there?
I feel that my initial post (a few up) already commented on how heavily City of Brass is played in Legacy -- which is barely at all. I do not expect a narrowly better reprint to increase the playability of city of brass nor of mana confluence. I don't know that mana confluence will spawn new archetypes entirely with an 8x city, but maybe you're right at and it will. Legacy mana bases are already so strong that I just don't see it though.
I will admit that the average EDH player may need one for every deck though. I did not anticipate that, but we'll see what the demand is. I still believe that this card will be a $5 rare at best within a month after release.
So demand has to come from EDH. That isn't going to make this a $20 card by any stretch of the imagination. You're talking about a rare at the same level as thoughtseize. Hint: Thoughtseize is a multi format all star while this isn't.
That being said foils of this will have a gigantic premium in all likelihood due to the art in foil probably looking gorgeous and because EDH people like foils as well as some vintage and legacy people. Cube as well. Foil is probably going to be $40 or something high around that number.
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It's not the best land ever printed but it will be standard legal and not likely to get a reprint any time soon.
"It will go down, generic name will be printed over and over" yeah that's an opinion but you'll be the one left behind when they hit $40 and you need some for a deck when there is no reprint in sight.
40$? As in, 40$ a piece? for non foil? That's just absurd. The pre-order prices are already absurd, this card WILL fall in price.
My goodness. So 10x shocks and 10x scrys is considered 'not that great'? What more do you want? Legacy landbases? I can see some fast aggro decks running 2 or so.
Depends on the deck. Paying to much life from shock land and Mana Confluence can cost you dearly against burn and Gary (grey merchant) decks. 2 color decks might not need them depending on the cmc cost distribution. 3 color decks will use them, but burning earth might become an auto 4 in side boards to hate them out. You are taking 1 damage and loosing 1 life to use Mana Confluence then. If you drew 2 opening game; the pain will cost you the game.
Way to much hype on this card and suckers are taking the bait. This is not Reflecting Pool people or a REAL pain land where you can add 1 colorless!
Multiplayer Decks- Memnarch - Animar, Soul of Elements - Zur, the Enchanter - Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - Food Chain Tazri - Teysa Karlov
Modern BUMill and Bant Spirits.
Thank you Xenphire for the signature!
Multiplayer Decks- Memnarch - Animar, Soul of Elements - Zur, the Enchanter - Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - Food Chain Tazri - Teysa Karlov
Modern BUMill and Bant Spirits.
Thank you Xenphire for the signature!
I said "when" as in it could take years. Fetches went up to $50-$100 it just took time. Obviously it isn't gonna happen overnight.
Lands are lands and this will have an impact on eternal formats. It's legacy playable whereas City of Brass isn't because of Rishadan Port. Sure not every deck has a Port but the mere existence of Port makes COB unplayable.
I can't wait till melira pod pods for this. how can you be so sure it will not be played in modern?
I dissagree. Junk Rock using Goyf's, Knight of the Requuilry, and other dudes can out pace removal decks. 3 life is really hard to constantly pay for certain decks. Affinity might use tho as well with Ravager + Ornathopter or Memnight. It's a stretch in mana but it's dangerous fast as it is anyway. To say it will never be used is an absolute I can not agree with. I don't see it used it in Pod as I can't see what would pulled for it.
Multiplayer Decks- Memnarch - Animar, Soul of Elements - Zur, the Enchanter - Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - Food Chain Tazri - Teysa Karlov
Modern BUMill and Bant Spirits.
Thank you Xenphire for the signature!
We all know the values need to even out.
4 gods have been spoiled and 3 look a bit flaky. Keranos costs too much mana, Iroas doesn't do anything outside of combat and Kruphix is just a funky EDH general. Godsend is overcosted and easy to play around.
Athreos is decent and might fetch a premium.
Just look at BTG. Gods are $7 with Xenagos at $12. You'd have to have more dollars than sense to pay $20+
Sure these gods are slightly better but I'm not sure how playable that makes them.
Here are my speculative prices now we've seen more of the set.
Ajani $30
Mana Confluence $20
Athreos $16
Keranos $13
Iroas $8
Godsend $4
Kruphix $3
Fairly spot on, but here is my opinion.
Ajani- $20-15, Elspeth ends games where Ajani just sits there. Why should Ajani keep a higher value?
Mana Confluence- $15-12, Why? Cause of Burning Earth. Certain decks can use it to great advantage, but others may find it to big a leech.
Athreos- $12-10. He is only good in certain decks that can run him. It creates a dead turn 3 for non mana dork decks. After testing it in my BW midrange deck; it is side board material unless I build around it. It basically creates an issues of deciding what I need more: Erebos or Athreos? A junk build might love him.
Way to much hype and I learned my lesson from Theros.
Multiplayer Decks- Memnarch - Animar, Soul of Elements - Zur, the Enchanter - Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - Food Chain Tazri - Teysa Karlov
Modern BUMill and Bant Spirits.
Thank you Xenphire for the signature!
Mana Confluence is a good card. However, it makes no sense to think that it will "take modern by storm" when City of Brass is already in the format and barely played. There is no deck in modern that wants 8 City of Brass.
My guess is that Mana Confluence will be $8 to $12 or so in the long run, barring a reprint. I also agree that City of Brass would be more expensive if it had not been printed so many times.
Edit: And they're gone: In about one hour they sold out of 80-100 copies of the card at 5. Ebay has them at ten. I would have thought they would have increased the price after the first 40 were sold.
It does die to removal, but it will be around when all the good removal rotates.
Damn. I would've definitely bought a couple at $5 each. :/ It looks pretty good.
Lol no? It's because original Duals and fetch lands are just better in most every top tier and/or popular deck (do effectively the same thing that Brass/Confluence does with less life-loss and more utility -- Brainstorm, Sensei's Divining Top, Grim Lavamancer, Deathrite Shaman, etc.). And Wasteland being in the format has an effect too; Wastelands beat out any non-basic land -- namely the Duals, which is why fetchlands and basics are very common set-ups in a lot of multi-colored decks.
Neither City of Brass nor Mana Confluence provides that kind of safety net against Wasteland. The constant pings off of Brass/Confluence kinda hurts too...
The few decks that do want City of Brass use it because they have really low land counts and need the correct colors of mana. And they're usually combo decks that will kill you really early on in the game.
It's definitely one to watch out for. As for cards to combo it with... look no further than madcap skills. I bet some aggro deck arises from this (maybe even good old RDW)