I've noticed that prices of the P9 haven't gone up too much over the last few years. Have they hit a ceiling, or will they continue to go up? Opinions?
i kinda dont think that it will go up anymore. new players normaly will never care about p9, most dont even know about it.
and the collectors who wanted them, already got them. so i dont expect the demand to rise at all. means: i dont expect the prices to rise.
P9 are also getting harder to move reliably. The fakes get better and better every year, and many players want to buy cards they will play with, where as for the most part cards that valuable sit in grading cases or binders.
Still, we may see a slow trickle up over the years, as the players who were around when these were more popular are getting older and in many cases have more disposable income for things that "remind them of the good old days". The reserved list will always leave that potential for future climbing.
As Digitek mentions, a key issue regarding Power are the convincing fakes circulating, which does turn people away from high-end cards. If it doesn't now anyway, it definitely will. I think the ceiling is near the present rates...
They'll go up slowly over time just from collectors (who typically are good at distinguishing fakes). Less people care about playing them all the time though, which is countering some of the upward pressure collectors put out.
As Digitek mentions, a key issue regarding Power are the convincing fakes circulating, which does turn people away from high-end cards. If it doesn't now anyway, it definitely will. I think the ceiling is near the present rates...
p9 are as relevant as vintage baseball cards. They're a collectible. I don't see the value for Honus Wagner T206 cards or Mickey Mantle rookies dropping in value due to fakes, so why should the p9?
i kinda dont think that it will go up anymore. new players normaly will never care about p9, most dont even know about it.
and the collectors who wanted them, already got them. so i dont expect the demand to rise at all. means: i dont expect the prices to rise.
New players and collectors to Magic know about the P9 just like new baseball card collectors know about Mickey Mantle and Babe Ruth. It's apart of the game's history. A lot of collectors that buy P9 have no financial need to ever sell them. So as more and more P9 get into the hands of collectors with money, the less there will be for others to buy. So even if the demand is low, the supply might even be lower. This will drive prices up.
For example, there isn't much demand for a $100,000,0000 Jackson Pollock. Only a handful of people in the world can afford something like that. The problem is, the supply is so low (almost inexistent) That the price reflects this. When you start talking about an Alpha Black Lotus, you're talking about an extremely low supply. Some rich person could go online and buy up 10-20 of them from all the stores and that would drastically cause a price increase.
Please dont compare cards like the honus wagnerT209 and mickey mantle rookie cards to magic cards. Magic is fun and a ccg. Those super rare baseball cards have a game with 140+ years history behind it not to mention those cards are 70+ years old.
Please dont compare cards like the honus wagnerT209 and mickey mantle rookie cards to magic cards. Magic is fun and a ccg. Those super rare baseball cards have a game with 140+ years history behind it not to mention those cards are 70+ years old.
I believe those are the closest comparisons we have in terms of a collectible market. What would you have us use instead, vintage Bicycle playing cards?
Please dont compare cards like the honus wagnerT209 and mickey mantle rookie cards to magic cards. Magic is fun and a ccg. Those super rare baseball cards have a game with 140+ years history behind it not to mention those cards are 70+ years old.
Maybe a better comparison would be comic books or OG Star Wars figurines, still in the package. Baseball card, toy, game, comic book... or whatever. The fact that it is a collectible is what matters. For the sake of comparing, a classic Barbie doll can be used. The 50 year old Barbie enthusiast could care less if they had a Black Lotus. And if she did have a Black Lotus, I bet she would sell it to buy more collectible Barbie's.
People have always thought that magic cards couldn't go up anymore and then they go up. As long as magic is popular and gets played, those iconic collectibles will increase in price.
Please dont compare cards like the honus wagnerT209 and mickey mantle rookie cards to magic cards. Magic is fun and a ccg. Those super rare baseball cards have a game with 140+ years history behind it not to mention those cards are 70+ years old.
So when magic is 70 years old black lotus will be the same price in relation to inflation? Right.
P9 will continue to go up short of a reprint happening in paper.
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P9 has been a steady gainer, but after quite a few players remembering the 2004 price explosion, they seem to stay at current prices. (For the ones who don't remember, SCG and other large stores ran out of easily accuirable P9 pieces and the price went through the roof overnight. Nm beta Lotus went from 500 $ to 1.2k$.)
After the large increase the prices stabilized and have been slowly recovering as more and more people actually 'know' that P9 is that expensive. In my opinion, if P9 will jump again, the time is about right. On the other hand I've sold 16 P9 pieces away in the last two years, so I don't really believe that there's grounds for another jump, as Vintage isn't really played anymore so the demand base is much lower than it was in 2004, when there were plenty of high level tournaments going on.
Selling P9 is also pretty easy after you get the reputation for being a good seller, identifying fakes and knowing your stuff for grading. For me I actively built the reputation locally and did my fair share of writing advice on a few forums (including here) on spotting fakes. Good scans of the cards help also a lot. Surpriusing number of people believe that a few cell phone camera snapshots are enough.
The P9 have stagnated for years now. You can get a UL decent condition Mox Pearl or Emerald for < $400 on Ebay and the others for <$500. Timetwister is $230-250 for decent condition UL.
And at least for me personally the issue of fakes has definitely made me a little more reluctant to shell out for power. It's not impossible to create fakes that are 99.9% indistinguishable from the real thing, given the power of modern day scanners and printers and the mediocre printing quality of the original cards. Because of this, buying from even reputable stores is not really a guarantee.
I do not see the value of P9 going down, but there is not reason for them to go up fast as the demand if very low. Mostly only collectors are buying them.
They will constantly but slowly go up in value as years pass.
But there is always the risk of seeing their value go down. Magic might not always be a popular game. Yes at the moment it is huge and played around the world, but who knows what is going to happen in 5-10 years. If players start quitting the game, value of the cards will lose value.
Alpha cards will always have this (1st edition) rarity/history value no matter what.
But the other sets would lose their "offer/demand" value.
The P9 have stagnated for years now. You can get a UL decent condition Mox Pearl or Emerald for < $400 on Ebay and the others for <$500. Timetwister is $230-250 for decent condition UL.
And at least for me personally the issue of fakes has definitely made me a little more reluctant to shell out for power. It's not impossible to create fakes that are 99.9% indistinguishable from the real thing, given the power of modern day scanners and printers and the mediocre printing quality of the original cards. Because of this, buying from even reputable stores is not really a guarantee.
That's wrong. I got back into the game 4 years ago and you could easily find sub $300 for Pearl/Emerald/Ruby, around $350 for Jet/Recall/Walk and $375-400 for Sapphire. Timetwister can even be had for sub $200.
Now, that has changed. It's nearly impossible to find sub $300 non-Twister P9 anymore.
Also, the powers that went up a lot are the nice condition ones. These are being bought up by collectors, and yes, the number of collectors does increase over time as people who used to play the games before now have a good job so they can afford them.
I am sure as the quality of fakes increase, the online and eBay demand has slowed down a bit, especially since it can be a hassle and/or troublesome to get the situation resolved if something goes awry. People are being more cautious.
Every single piece that a collector squares away is 1 less piece actively being traded/sold in the secondary market. It could be that there is a lull in collectors buying items at the moment, or that there are not many good condition pieces out there for collectors to buy.
It is also ridiculous to compare P9 cards from the mid 90's to baseball cards from the 50's. I would like to think its more difficult to fake a 1950's baseball card (in terms of making it look correct, and making it look/appear/feel 60+ years old), than a 20 year old magic card.
That's wrong. I got back into the game 4 years ago and you could easily find sub $300 for Pearl/Emerald/Ruby, around $350 for Jet/Recall/Walk and $375-400 for Sapphire. Timetwister can even be had for sub $200.
Now, that has changed. It's nearly impossible to find sub $300 non-Twister P9 anymore.
Also, the powers that went up a lot are the nice condition ones. These are being bought up by collectors, and yes, the number of collectors does increase over time as people who used to play the games before now have a good job so they can afford them.
I agree. I actually remember buying cheaper power in the past. Very recently (within the past year) I tried to buy a sapphire for my collection. Despite people here and at other trading forums telling me that power can be found for those old prices, I had no luck at all for months. I trolled MKM, I checked here, I put the sapphire on my ebay feed, I checked tcgplayer, I checked other trade forums... nothing. No dice. Either the card was in worse condition than they said it was (I'm sorry, but EX or NM should not mean shuffle creases!), or the price was easily $500+. I eventually found one within my price range (near the top end) and in the condition I wanted, but it was just frustrating to hear that I should be able to find one for less, and not seeing anything like it.
The price of power is definitely rising... mostly because the supply is dwindling.
I think there's a small percentage of new (began playing in the last 36 months) players (with the means to do so) that have seen past the sham that is modern, standard and limited and want to get where the long-term money seems to be.
While the percentage is small, it IS a constant influx - and there's people out there that would trade a full playset of RTR Shocks for a things like played candelabra, a pair of mana drains, or a Timetwister. I'd have trouble resisting if someone wanted to throw a bonkers offer at my Mishra's workshop. This is going to keep happening - slowly and nearly imperceptibly, but the trend will continue.
Please dont compare cards like the honus wagnerT209 and mickey mantle rookie cards to magic cards. Magic is fun and a ccg. Those super rare baseball cards have a game with 140+ years history behind it not to mention those cards are 70+ years old.
Yes a Mickey Mantle rookie card is extremely hard to find. It was mentioned on a recent Topps card that the company in 1952 threw in to the Hudson River all the excess supply of 1952 Topps thus making his rookie even more rare.
Rarer still is the chance at finding a Black Lotus in some random collection. The P9 will never go down it will only trickle upward over time, unless wizards does away with the stupid reserve list.
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and the collectors who wanted them, already got them. so i dont expect the demand to rise at all. means: i dont expect the prices to rise.
Still, we may see a slow trickle up over the years, as the players who were around when these were more popular are getting older and in many cases have more disposable income for things that "remind them of the good old days". The reserved list will always leave that potential for future climbing.
Cheers
That's never happening.
p9 are as relevant as vintage baseball cards. They're a collectible. I don't see the value for Honus Wagner T206 cards or Mickey Mantle rookies dropping in value due to fakes, so why should the p9?
New players and collectors to Magic know about the P9 just like new baseball card collectors know about Mickey Mantle and Babe Ruth. It's apart of the game's history. A lot of collectors that buy P9 have no financial need to ever sell them. So as more and more P9 get into the hands of collectors with money, the less there will be for others to buy. So even if the demand is low, the supply might even be lower. This will drive prices up.
For example, there isn't much demand for a $100,000,0000 Jackson Pollock. Only a handful of people in the world can afford something like that. The problem is, the supply is so low (almost inexistent) That the price reflects this. When you start talking about an Alpha Black Lotus, you're talking about an extremely low supply. Some rich person could go online and buy up 10-20 of them from all the stores and that would drastically cause a price increase.
I believe those are the closest comparisons we have in terms of a collectible market. What would you have us use instead, vintage Bicycle playing cards?
Maybe a better comparison would be comic books or OG Star Wars figurines, still in the package. Baseball card, toy, game, comic book... or whatever. The fact that it is a collectible is what matters. For the sake of comparing, a classic Barbie doll can be used. The 50 year old Barbie enthusiast could care less if they had a Black Lotus. And if she did have a Black Lotus, I bet she would sell it to buy more collectible Barbie's.
So when magic is 70 years old black lotus will be the same price in relation to inflation? Right.
P9 will continue to go up short of a reprint happening in paper.
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After the large increase the prices stabilized and have been slowly recovering as more and more people actually 'know' that P9 is that expensive. In my opinion, if P9 will jump again, the time is about right. On the other hand I've sold 16 P9 pieces away in the last two years, so I don't really believe that there's grounds for another jump, as Vintage isn't really played anymore so the demand base is much lower than it was in 2004, when there were plenty of high level tournaments going on.
Selling P9 is also pretty easy after you get the reputation for being a good seller, identifying fakes and knowing your stuff for grading. For me I actively built the reputation locally and did my fair share of writing advice on a few forums (including here) on spotting fakes. Good scans of the cards help also a lot. Surpriusing number of people believe that a few cell phone camera snapshots are enough.
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And at least for me personally the issue of fakes has definitely made me a little more reluctant to shell out for power. It's not impossible to create fakes that are 99.9% indistinguishable from the real thing, given the power of modern day scanners and printers and the mediocre printing quality of the original cards. Because of this, buying from even reputable stores is not really a guarantee.
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I've been lookin' for one in decent or worse condition on eBay (or anywhere else) for a hot second now - and they seem to be ending north of 265$.
Still staying vigilant.
They will constantly but slowly go up in value as years pass.
But there is always the risk of seeing their value go down. Magic might not always be a popular game. Yes at the moment it is huge and played around the world, but who knows what is going to happen in 5-10 years. If players start quitting the game, value of the cards will lose value.
Alpha cards will always have this (1st edition) rarity/history value no matter what.
But the other sets would lose their "offer/demand" value.
That's wrong. I got back into the game 4 years ago and you could easily find sub $300 for Pearl/Emerald/Ruby, around $350 for Jet/Recall/Walk and $375-400 for Sapphire. Timetwister can even be had for sub $200.
Now, that has changed. It's nearly impossible to find sub $300 non-Twister P9 anymore.
Also, the powers that went up a lot are the nice condition ones. These are being bought up by collectors, and yes, the number of collectors does increase over time as people who used to play the games before now have a good job so they can afford them.
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Every single piece that a collector squares away is 1 less piece actively being traded/sold in the secondary market. It could be that there is a lull in collectors buying items at the moment, or that there are not many good condition pieces out there for collectors to buy.
It is also ridiculous to compare P9 cards from the mid 90's to baseball cards from the 50's. I would like to think its more difficult to fake a 1950's baseball card (in terms of making it look correct, and making it look/appear/feel 60+ years old), than a 20 year old magic card.
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I agree. I actually remember buying cheaper power in the past. Very recently (within the past year) I tried to buy a sapphire for my collection. Despite people here and at other trading forums telling me that power can be found for those old prices, I had no luck at all for months. I trolled MKM, I checked here, I put the sapphire on my ebay feed, I checked tcgplayer, I checked other trade forums... nothing. No dice. Either the card was in worse condition than they said it was (I'm sorry, but EX or NM should not mean shuffle creases!), or the price was easily $500+. I eventually found one within my price range (near the top end) and in the condition I wanted, but it was just frustrating to hear that I should be able to find one for less, and not seeing anything like it.
The price of power is definitely rising... mostly because the supply is dwindling.
While the percentage is small, it IS a constant influx - and there's people out there that would trade a full playset of RTR Shocks for a things like played candelabra, a pair of mana drains, or a Timetwister. I'd have trouble resisting if someone wanted to throw a bonkers offer at my Mishra's workshop. This is going to keep happening - slowly and nearly imperceptibly, but the trend will continue.
Yes a Mickey Mantle rookie card is extremely hard to find. It was mentioned on a recent Topps card that the company in 1952 threw in to the Hudson River all the excess supply of 1952 Topps thus making his rookie even more rare.
Rarer still is the chance at finding a Black Lotus in some random collection. The P9 will never go down it will only trickle upward over time, unless wizards does away with the stupid reserve list.