Last I looked academy belcher didn't run candelabra because there was and probably still doesn't have space for it because vintage decklists are extremely tight. No clue why it would go up when academy belcher is a very fringe strategy in vintage but the print run is smaller than P9 and those spiked hard although moxen and such are heavily played in vintage of course.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
Yeah, the thing about cards like Arabian Nights rares is that there's such a small supply of them that a single card entering or leaving the market can easily skew TCGplayer's prices, in one direction or the other. You've really got to look long-term with these cards. Compare sold prices on ebay to those of a year ago, etc.
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Yeah, the thing about cards like Arabian Nights rares is that there's such a small supply of them that a single card entering or leaving the market can easily skew TCGplayer's prices, in one direction or the other. You've really got to look long-term with these cards. Compare sold prices on ebay to those of a year ago, etc.
Silly Wildfire! There are no Arabian Nights rares!
Silly Wildfire! There are no Arabian Nights rares!
You're right, of course. And Candelabra isn't even from Arabian Nights, it's from Antiquities. Must have been pretty hard on the derp for that post.
My point was still valid, though, for cards that are U2 or U3 in Arabian Nights or U1/U2 in Antiquties, or Rare in Legends, at least for those cards that weren't in Chronicles. There are more copies of Black Lotus than there are of Diamond Valley or Moat, and only about 40% more Candelabras, Workshops, and Bazaars than there are individual Moxen. None of these things are found in high quantities on TCGPlayer, and it can make for some wildly inaccurate medians. A lot of stores seem to list copies of some of these cards at unreasonable levels because there aren't many other copies to compete. So if a copy comes in at "market value", the median and especially low prices will jump downwards instantly, and that copy being bought up snaps the prices back up.
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For Legends there's the italian print run, that is estimated to be greater than the english print run. For the other sets you are pretty much correct.
It even shows on AN commons. I for example collected Deserts and at one point had nearly all copies that were floating around our country. When the internet made getting cards from USA easier, the value of that card dropped back down, but for a while, I had personally caused a price spike on the most common (the only C11) card of Arabian Nights. For AN U2's there's a very finite number of nm copies left on market and if I went to get few more Library of Alexandrias, to fill up a binder page for example (so 5 more), European market values would go up for a while by 20 %, until more copies would become availlable. If a large dealer or private collector would go and pick 40 nm copies up, the price would pick up globally.
Just to get some real data, I ran the numbers for AN. There were approximately 5 million cards printed (data from MtGSwiki) for AN on two sheets of 121 cards. This comes to roughly 41 320 copies of any U2. That is actually way more copies than I had imagined. It's 5+ times more than the estimated print run of most Judge foils. Either the loss percentage is huge (no sleeves, players didn't believe that cards could be worth real money) or collectors really love Arabian Nights and thousands copies are stuck with collectors.
I actually believe that it's both. I know Arabian Nights was the first set I wanted to collect and ended having playsets of all the cards and 9x of each common, including light/dark versions and the 'campfire Desert,' (One of the 11 Deserts has a white spot on the art, which looks like there's a light, or a campfire, on one of the dunes. Those are actually rarer than Bazaars or Library of Alexandria by numbers.)
When I was collecting AN cards lot of them were really hard to find in decent condition. Trying to get mint cards was very tough. So the number of near mint cards is low due to the mental image of cheap game, no sleeves were used at that time, and lot of the great copies have been snatched up by collectors and old, inactive, players.
The same applies to Antiquities, maybe to lesser degree, as there appears to be more nm Aq cards floating around than there were for AN, but for the big items, Workshop and Candelabra, both which are often played as playsets, not singles like Library, there's a definita lack of availlable copies.
An AN U2 has 20,500 copies out there. A Legends rare is even lower at 19,500. This obviously does include tons of copies that were destroyed through play or what not before they became valuable, so the numbers now should be much lower.
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
Flusterstorm spiked hard this past week. Just last Friday I bought one at $37, now you're looking at between 41-49
I have been watching this as well. Should we assume that this is the new normal or an anomaly that will correct back down? I imagine it isn't going to be reprinted because it would probably create a problem not unlike TNN did when printed in the C13 decks.
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I have been watching this as well. Should we assume that this is the new normal or an anomaly that will correct back down? I imagine it isn't going to be reprinted because it would probably create a problem not unlike TNN did when printed in the C13 decks.
I don't imagine we will see this correct downwards without a reprint. The card is seriously good in Legacy, especially against Show and Tell decks, where it provides a Spell Pierce effect that can't just be Daze/Force of Will'd back. It does have a few holes (like not hitting Sneak Attack/Dream Halls), but it will always be in demand for blue legacy decks and the supply isn't getting any larger.
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I have been watching this as well. Should we assume that this is the new normal or an anomaly that will correct back down? I imagine it isn't going to be reprinted because it would probably create a problem not unlike TNN did when printed in the C13 decks.
I don't imagine we will see this correct downwards without a reprint. The card is seriously good in Legacy, especially against Show and Tell decks, where it provides a Spell Pierce effect that can't just be Daze/Force of Will'd back. It does have a few holes (like not hitting Sneak Attack/Dream Halls), but it will always be in demand for blue legacy decks and the supply isn't getting any larger.
Agreed, I am actually in the market for this card for Legacy and just want to get in on it at the best price, which has probably been missed at this point.
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I have been watching this as well. Should we assume that this is the new normal or an anomaly that will correct back down? I imagine it isn't going to be reprinted because it would probably create a problem not unlike TNN did when printed in the C13 decks.
I don't imagine we will see this correct downwards without a reprint. The card is seriously good in Legacy, especially against Show and Tell decks, where it provides a Spell Pierce effect that can't just be Daze/Force of Will'd back. It does have a few holes (like not hitting Sneak Attack/Dream Halls), but it will always be in demand for blue legacy decks and the supply isn't getting any larger.
Agreed, I am actually in the market for this card for Legacy and just want to get in on it at the best price, which has probably been missed at this point.
I think the boat just left for any reasonable pricing, yeah.
Also, looks like Force of Will is back to being 100+. People who have been following force, is this just another one of those spikes that have happened in the price, or could this be the new norm?
Am quite sad about Flusterstorm. :/ I never was able to get a second or third copy. T-T
As for Force of Will, I can't quite say, because it's a card that has fluctuated in price for many years. As low as $50, and for a bit, its price was actually sitting there as the mid price. Then went to $70-75ish. Then back down, then up to like, $90-100, then back down AGAIN to like $60-70ish. Idk, the card is weird in that it seems to change in price a lot. But there's one thing that's constant is that the card is a Staple in a bunch of Legacy decks with decent utility in EDH, so the demand is always there. The current pricing COULD be the new norm, but I can't say for sure as its price is weird. It's very similar to how Wasteland jumped from like $50 to $100-120 for a bit then dropped off hard to $68-75. Wasteland lowered because of Treasure Cruise meta, but it has been going back up since the ban of Treasure Cruise, so its median is $75 or so. I think that's a fair/correct price for it. Not sure if it's gonna go up further or lower though. FoW and Wasteland are weird.
Both cards are played pretty frequently in Legacy, but neither are on the reserved list, so spec'ing for the sake of it is a bit of a gamble (though it's at least liquid, I guess). Get them if you want/need them. But I'd reconsider hoarding or any of the like. :/ I bought one of my near mint copies at ~$67 or so like, 1.5-2 years back. I know that's decent while ago, but I thought I'd share; it was at $75, then dropped to about $68 (which was when I decided to get my 4th copy), then it went back up to $70 or so and just sat there for the next several months.
What I personally need to do is trade off my MP/HP condition Forces for NM copies. Mine really bother me. lol And finish my set of Wastelands. It's been long overdue. Of course, as I say this, I'm about to trade away one of them.
Reprints the one card that people point to when saying that art objectifies women.
Well done Wizards.
Liliana does not objectify women in any way at all. We have gotten to a point in our society that every single picture of a women must be objectifying a women in some negative way......blah blah blah.. That is not the case. (((Sarcasm)))Picture of a girl drinking a milk shake, must be sex related and putting women down, picture of girl sitting on a beach, picture of a girl driving a car, picture of a girl on the moon at a new space station.)))
You have a picture of an attractive strong power women who girls dress up as for anime conventions. What more do you want? The picture is fine, happy to see a reprint. Sick of of seeing people claim that everything in existence must be putting women down. Then all I have to do is replace the word "women" with anything else to get the same mentality; fish, cats, arabs, blacks, jews, men, environment, whites, chinese, old people, etc. It doesn't matter what word I put in. Stop sucking life out of everything man. That artwork of her is awesome. Stop putting stuff down man. Just stop. If the picture was really as negative as you claim she would totally nude, in a kitchen, making sandwiches and giving blow jobs. Her abilities would be horrible as well. +1 do nothing -2 do nothing -6 do nothing. Instead liliana of the veil is an amazing planeswalker comparable to jace, the mind sculpter with great art to appreciate.
My suggestion listen to some comedy radio for a while, pandora is free, youtube is free there is something out there for you. ***** go make fun of somebody. The whole world is so serious and campaigning for some cause, or someones rights, everything is a hate crime, racist, sexist. blah blah blah.
"O no mcdonalds must be slandering a hate crime against skinny people every time they make a big mac." hahaha jeeze You're just someone perpetuating another groups negative perspective that they've made you believe is correct. Look at the picture for a hour and tell me what's wrong with it? I don't see anything.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
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Silly Wildfire! There are no Arabian Nights rares!
You're right, of course. And Candelabra isn't even from Arabian Nights, it's from Antiquities. Must have been pretty hard on the derp for that post.
My point was still valid, though, for cards that are U2 or U3 in Arabian Nights or U1/U2 in Antiquties, or Rare in Legends, at least for those cards that weren't in Chronicles. There are more copies of Black Lotus than there are of Diamond Valley or Moat, and only about 40% more Candelabras, Workshops, and Bazaars than there are individual Moxen. None of these things are found in high quantities on TCGPlayer, and it can make for some wildly inaccurate medians. A lot of stores seem to list copies of some of these cards at unreasonable levels because there aren't many other copies to compete. So if a copy comes in at "market value", the median and especially low prices will jump downwards instantly, and that copy being bought up snaps the prices back up.
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It even shows on AN commons. I for example collected Deserts and at one point had nearly all copies that were floating around our country. When the internet made getting cards from USA easier, the value of that card dropped back down, but for a while, I had personally caused a price spike on the most common (the only C11) card of Arabian Nights. For AN U2's there's a very finite number of nm copies left on market and if I went to get few more Library of Alexandrias, to fill up a binder page for example (so 5 more), European market values would go up for a while by 20 %, until more copies would become availlable. If a large dealer or private collector would go and pick 40 nm copies up, the price would pick up globally.
Just to get some real data, I ran the numbers for AN. There were approximately 5 million cards printed (data from MtGSwiki) for AN on two sheets of 121 cards. This comes to roughly 41 320 copies of any U2. That is actually way more copies than I had imagined. It's 5+ times more than the estimated print run of most Judge foils. Either the loss percentage is huge (no sleeves, players didn't believe that cards could be worth real money) or collectors really love Arabian Nights and thousands copies are stuck with collectors.
I actually believe that it's both. I know Arabian Nights was the first set I wanted to collect and ended having playsets of all the cards and 9x of each common, including light/dark versions and the 'campfire Desert,' (One of the 11 Deserts has a white spot on the art, which looks like there's a light, or a campfire, on one of the dunes. Those are actually rarer than Bazaars or Library of Alexandria by numbers.)
When I was collecting AN cards lot of them were really hard to find in decent condition. Trying to get mint cards was very tough. So the number of near mint cards is low due to the mental image of cheap game, no sleeves were used at that time, and lot of the great copies have been snatched up by collectors and old, inactive, players.
The same applies to Antiquities, maybe to lesser degree, as there appears to be more nm Aq cards floating around than there were for AN, but for the big items, Workshop and Candelabra, both which are often played as playsets, not singles like Library, there's a definita lack of availlable copies.
Set to default
http://www.usc.edu/dept/Deckmasters/archive/mtg/printrun.txt
An AN U2 has 20,500 copies out there. A Legends rare is even lower at 19,500. This obviously does include tons of copies that were destroyed through play or what not before they became valuable, so the numbers now should be much lower.
It's included, because it explains why Candelabra spikes every time someone buys a playset.
WUDeath&TaxesWG
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UBRGDredgeUBRG
UHigh TideU
URGLandsURG
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WUR American D&T
WUB Esper D&T
The Reserved List
Heat Maps
pretty much this.
The supply of old cards is so few that even one person buying a playset will affect the current market price.
tcglow of $31.49. Mid is ~5 higher. Keeps going up. These were ~$20 just a couple of months ago. No surprises here.
I have been watching this as well. Should we assume that this is the new normal or an anomaly that will correct back down? I imagine it isn't going to be reprinted because it would probably create a problem not unlike TNN did when printed in the C13 decks.
I don't imagine we will see this correct downwards without a reprint. The card is seriously good in Legacy, especially against Show and Tell decks, where it provides a Spell Pierce effect that can't just be Daze/Force of Will'd back. It does have a few holes (like not hitting Sneak Attack/Dream Halls), but it will always be in demand for blue legacy decks and the supply isn't getting any larger.
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Agreed, I am actually in the market for this card for Legacy and just want to get in on it at the best price, which has probably been missed at this point.
I think the boat just left for any reasonable pricing, yeah.
Also, looks like Force of Will is back to being 100+. People who have been following force, is this just another one of those spikes that have happened in the price, or could this be the new norm?
As for Force of Will, I can't quite say, because it's a card that has fluctuated in price for many years. As low as $50, and for a bit, its price was actually sitting there as the mid price. Then went to $70-75ish. Then back down, then up to like, $90-100, then back down AGAIN to like $60-70ish. Idk, the card is weird in that it seems to change in price a lot. But there's one thing that's constant is that the card is a Staple in a bunch of Legacy decks with decent utility in EDH, so the demand is always there. The current pricing COULD be the new norm, but I can't say for sure as its price is weird. It's very similar to how Wasteland jumped from like $50 to $100-120 for a bit then dropped off hard to $68-75. Wasteland lowered because of Treasure Cruise meta, but it has been going back up since the ban of Treasure Cruise, so its median is $75 or so. I think that's a fair/correct price for it. Not sure if it's gonna go up further or lower though. FoW and Wasteland are weird.
Both cards are played pretty frequently in Legacy, but neither are on the reserved list, so spec'ing for the sake of it is a bit of a gamble (though it's at least liquid, I guess). Get them if you want/need them. But I'd reconsider hoarding or any of the like. :/ I bought one of my near mint copies at ~$67 or so like, 1.5-2 years back. I know that's decent while ago, but I thought I'd share; it was at $75, then dropped to about $68 (which was when I decided to get my 4th copy), then it went back up to $70 or so and just sat there for the next several months.
What I personally need to do is trade off my MP/HP condition Forces for NM copies. Mine really bother me. lol And finish my set of Wastelands. It's been long overdue. Of course, as I say this, I'm about to trade away one of them.