Primordials? To be honest I couldn't even name what a single one of them does, and probably never will. They're just the 5 overpriced boring rares that will never see play, to me. Bland and useless design, ugh. Don't think I've sold a single one yet.
I'd expect him to keep falling. He's not going to be particularly popular with the average casual player and as he's seeing next to zero tournament play there is nothing propping his price up. Unless he breaks out in a deck, he's headed for bulk mythic territory.
I agree except that I don't think he'll be passed up in casual. 4/4 flying for 4, with a bonus, and popular creature type. Bulk mythic is very unlikely.
1) Card is spoiled, and is noted for being "the new _________", where _________ is a similar and very powerful card. In this case, it was Bob.
2) Price goes way up.
3) People notice it's not exactly the same as ________, in that the power level falls short.
4) Massive, massive selloff. Overreaction.
5) Just because it isn't ________ doesn't mean it's toilet paper. Price adjusts to something reasonable.
Primordials? To be honest I couldn't even name what a single one of them does, and probably never will. They're just the 5 overpriced boring rares that will never see play, to me. Bland and useless design, ugh. Don't think I've sold a single one yet.
Tell that to the EDH players who worship the very ground the 5 primordials walk on.
Primordials? To be honest I couldn't even name what a single one of them does, and probably never will. They're just the 5 overpriced boring rares that will never see play, to me. Bland and useless design, ugh. Don't think I've sold a single one yet.
Isn't that 2 ways of saying 1 thing? And isn't that 1 thing applicable to every card in that set?
I agree except that I don't think he'll be passed up in casual. 4/4 flying for 4, with a bonus, and popular creature type. Bulk mythic is very unlikely.
1) Card is spoiled, and is noted for being "the new _________", where _________ is a similar and very powerful card. In this case, it was Bob.
2) Price goes way up.
3) People notice it's not exactly the same as ________, in that the power level falls short.
4) Massive, massive selloff. Overreaction.
5) Just because it isn't ________ doesn't mean it's toilet paper. Price adjusts to something reasonable.
I think you got it wrong.
Duskmantle seer is in the wrong colors for Vampires. Casuals like BR Vampires, not uBR vampires. In the same token, Primordials are hot EDH commodities. Local players aren't even blinking at $10 Sylvan Primordial, for example. *If* he sees a rebound, it'll probably be because of tournament play, not casual demand. Casuals hate paying life for stuff.
Back to topic, most players are angry, upset or disappointed everytime they opened a primordial. Many felt it is a waste of box space. They are barely $0.50 card now in my area.
Been contemplating getting a foil Duskmantle Seer for my EDH deck, while I know its gonna be hard to tell just where the non-foil will settle...likely around here if not lower, what about foils? Is it a safe buy right now? They're not exactly cheap yet.
Back to topic, most players are angry, upset or disappointed everytime they opened a primordial. Many felt it is a waste of box space. They are barely $0.50 card now in my area.
Sylvan Primordial is like a more restricted Primeval Titan + non-persisting Woodfall Primus in one. Technically it is the more expensive among the primordials (though at that level it does not really matter).
For EDH players, they won't mind more primordials.
Speak for yourself. Obvious inclusions like the Primordials, Omniscience, Enter the Infinite, etc. are boring.
True enough, the primordials scream for auto-include in EDH decks. As long as players have EDH decks they will try to put them in somewhere. U can imagine the rush when EDH players try to get them during prerelease and try them out in EDH (for EDH, newly-released sets are legal on prerelease day).
Though yes, as a Standard player also (in fact more Standard than EDH), I would not want to see them in my packs.
True enough, the primordials scream for auto-include in EDH decks. As long as players have EDH decks they will try to put them in somewhere. U can imagine the rush when EDH players try to get them during prerelease and try them out in EDH (for EDH, newly-released sets are legal on prerelease day).
Though yes, as a Standard player also (in fact more Standard than EDH), I would not want to see them in my packs.
If you can get them cheap, they'll be nice trade binder fodder for the foreseeable future.
I recomend the foil Primordials. All of them are playable and in a few years they will be pretty good trade fodder.
I've been picking these up for under 1.5 € each for the white, blue and red.
2 € for the black.
and 3 € for the green one.
Non-foils for under 0.15 € each (all colors, White, red and blue are usually 0,03-0,10 €).
I believe that at those prices there's no chance to lose money and I can easily sit on them for a few years, altough it wouldn't shock me to see the prices start increasing even before DMG comes out. I've got 18 foil primordials and about 40 non-foils so far.
Also the redeeming of Gatecrash costs 20 $ more than previously, so foil sets will propably go up by some of that amount. The cost increase should translate into higher foil single prices down the road.
I've also begun buying foil Stolen Identities for around 1 € and foil Illusioninst's Bracers for 1 €, as I doubt those prices will stay that low too long. Stolen Identity is a great General killer on an evasion creature or 'just' a double clone for six mana. There's usually at least one player with no blockers around and at least it will lock down one Maze of Ith.
Notice all prices are from MKM and they don't include shipping. Most of the prices are from drafters, who just want some cash out of their winnings. These prices will not last for long, as sellers will not open more product unless the prices go up some more. But even some retailerrs sell GTC rares cheaply (Luminate Primordials for 0.03 $ each... Cheaper than true bulk)
This set reminds me of Rise of the Eldrazi, low initial rare prices, some of which will explode (Splinter Twin was 0.25 €), when somebody finds a good use for the card. Gyre Sage being so far the best example from GTC. Those were 0,2 € to start with too. There should be one or two more, so buying any cards around bulk prices will never be a bad speculation target.
I personally like the single-colored Encode-rares (Stolen Identity and Undercity Plague) and Wrecking Ogre as they all have potential to move to 0.5-1 € rares after a while. The Ogre is seeing some standard play already and will undoubtably be played in block, as it's a beating. The rat lord should also go up after some time because casual demand.
I would actually be very happy to have spent about 80 € (price of a box) on GTC bulk rares. That would be 4-6 playsets of each and having three go up to 1-2 € will cover the whole pile. The problem is finding a seller for that many cards, as multiple postages will add to costs quite fast.
I went to my LGS today to buy the foil primordials (as I had been thinking about this for a while). They only had one copy of the red one. I bought a few EDH cards and decided to buy a booster box of Gatecrash, hoping to get the OTHER mythic track that I hadn't pulled in my other 3 boxes.
The box price was $115 (compared to $89 as it usually is for the newest box of Standard). By contrast, RTR and back was priced at $105 so I picked up a box of that instead.
Does this shop know something that we all don't, or are they overcharging just because?
I went to my LGS today to buy the foil primordials (as I had been thinking about this for a while). They only had one copy of the red one. I bought a few EDH cards and decided to buy a booster box of Gatecrash, hoping to get the OTHER mythic track that I hadn't pulled in my other 3 boxes.
The box price was $115 (compared to $89 as it usually is for the newest box of Standard). By contrast, RTR and back was priced at $105 so I picked up a box of that instead.
Does this shop know something that we all don't, or are they overcharging just because?
Sometimes the pace of sales for a set comes up in these threads regarding prices. I've heard it bandied about that GTC is not selling as well as RTR. In his article today, Patrick Chapin says that Gatecrash is the fastest selling set of all time- breaking RTR's record. I have no idea what his source is. Whether it's something he heard at the GP, from a WotC employee, or SCG's sales staff.
Sometimes the pace of sales for a set comes up in these threads regarding prices. I've heard it bandied about that GTC is not selling as well as RTR. In his article today, Patrick Chapin says that Gatecrash is the fastest selling set of all time- breaking RTR's record. I have no idea what his source is. Whether it's something he heard at the GP, from a WotC employee, or SCG's sales staff.
I suppose its possible, if you assume there wasnt a shortage this time and that the playerbase has grown fairly well since RTR, its entirely possible that GTC could have sold more than RTR. However, given the poor nature of this set, its also quite likely that RTR will end up on top in the long run. From what Ive seen of most sets, significantly more product gets sold within the first month of a set's release than at any other time during its time in-print. In the case of RTR, the early shortages harmed its potential early sales numbers, not allowing them to reach their maximum potential. With gatecrash I imagine there wasnt the shortage, so the sales could flow normally, allowing for a higher sales number by this point in the life-cycle of the set. Its also the case as well that we have at least one ultra-hot card in the set right now in boros reckoner thats also likely helping the sales along as people try to find a cheaper way to pull them than forking out $20+ per card.
I suppose its possible, if you assume there wasnt a shortage this time and that the playerbase has grown fairly well since RTR, its entirely possible that GTC could have sold more than RTR. However, given the poor nature of this set, its also quite likely that RTR will end up on top in the long run. From what Ive seen of most sets, significantly more product gets sold within the first month of a set's release than at any other time during its time in-print. In the case of RTR, the early shortages harmed its potential early sales numbers, not allowing them to reach their maximum potential. With gatecrash I imagine there wasnt the shortage, so the sales could flow normally, allowing for a higher sales number by this point in the life-cycle of the set. Its also the case as well that we have at least one ultra-hot card in the set right now in boros reckoner thats also likely helping the sales along as people try to find a cheaper way to pull them than forking out $20+ per card.
I would have to say I agree with this sentiment. RTR was priced above normal at $115/box at release here locally compared to the usual $89 price tag and it was STILL selling out. I haven't seen that happening with GTC. Come to think of it, your point about boros reckoner makes sense for this owner as he would raise the price of a box because BR is only a rare and you're more likely to pull one than a mythic of comparable value.
Since I discovered the Demonic Tutor/Regrowth combo, I personally prefer black and green cards. For that reason, RTR is where it's at for me while GTC is all off colors as far as I'm concerned. That's why I've picked up 6+ boxes of RTR and only 3 of GTC.
When somebody makes a wild and unbelievable claim on the internet (and yes, I consider "GC is the fastest selling set of all time" to be wild and unbelievable) without giving any source...... don't bother repeating it here, please. It's nonsense.
I've priced my GC extremely competitively compared to other sets, and yet have sold maybe 1/10th what I sold for RTR. Yes, a 90% drop in sales. My older sets continue to sell well and at the same pace as before.
5 rares isn't enough to carry any set, especially not one this big.
When somebody makes a wild and unbelievable claim on the internet (and yes, I consider "GC is the fastest selling set of all time" to be wild and unbelievable) without giving any source...... don't bother repeating it here, please. It's nonsense.
I've priced my GC extremely competitively compared to other sets, and yet have sold maybe 1/10th what I sold for RTR. Yes, a 90% drop in sales. My older sets continue to sell well and at the same pace as before.
5 rares isn't enough to carry any set, especially not one this big.
If the cards are popular enough and end up being valuable enough, sometimes a set may only need one valuable card (see worldwake and JTMS) I dont put reckoner at JTMS levels of popularity by any means, but such cards can and do sell sets. Now the average business person like you and me, may look at the set and be like, (why bother?), however if there is demand for 1,000 reckoners, and there is only 500 in the immediate supply for the area, inevitably more GTC will have to be openned in order to meet that demand. Either the sellers will open more to try to meet the demand, or people looking for the card will open packs/boxes looking for the card(s) they want. Pack sales are driven just as much by casual casual players, as they are by casual tournament players (FNM etc), as they are by businesses that open boxes to supply the market with singles. Where there tends to be less pack/box demand, tends to be from the less casual tournament players who may only look for the singles that they want and ignore packs/boxes alltogether (barring insane value like RTR had for a while, for example.
Ive seen us run through packs/boxes of new magic sets like crazy, even when the value was terrible, just because there was a valuable card or three in the set that people were looking for, but didnt want to pay $20/$30/$40 or more for. Its the whole lottery ticket thing. People will spend money blindly on lottery tickets all the time, hoping to win big, however the vast majority win nothing. Same is the case with magic packs, its a gamble anytime you open a pack of magic, however if the potential to get a valuable prize is there, people will go for it, even if the overall average pack/box value may be poor other than a few valuable cards.
Sure, you'll get people who like playing lotteries, opening packs of a set to find the single card worth opening..... but that's an exception, not a rule. The average buyer isn't like that.
So what do people think about Thespian's Stage? At $5 a couple weeks ago people were saying it was a good buy, and likely to hit $10 or $20. Now it's at $1.5 or less on eBay, and I haven't heard anyone mention it lately at all.
Sure, you'll get people who like playing lotteries, opening packs of a set to find the single card worth opening..... but that's an exception, not a rule. The average buyer isn't like that.
So what do people think about Thespian's Stage? At $5 a couple weeks ago people were saying it was a good buy, and likely to hit $10 or $20. Now it's at $1.5 or less on eBay, and I haven't heard anyone mention it lately at all.
EDIT: Update coming this afternoon.
I'd like to know who specifically called for Thespian's Stage to hit the $10+ mark. I don't see the appeal of it.
Looking forward to your update, rancored... our neighbor to the north...
Also if you think about it, a lot of people bought boxes before release of GTC becuase of RTC value and scarcity so there was very likley a huge amout of pre-orderes which would lend to a higher volume sold at the very beggining of each set's life cycle. While people may be disappointed in what they have got an not bought any more the hype was there and carried over from GTC that poeple may have bought more initially.
Anything that can copy Legendary Lands/EDH lands or Posts are worth taking a second look at.
Relying on price data within weeks of a set's release and expecting that to be the trend for a set is a fool's errand. Hellrider was a $1-2 card for almost a year before it became a $6 then $9+ card; this is especially true of cards that will "take off" in EDH, and doubly so for newly minted cards (as much of the value in EDH singles takes time for supply to dry up, coupled with new hype).
Boros Reckoner will probably trend downward for a bit because he is no Snapcaster Mage, though he will probably stay above $10 for as long as red-inclusive aggro is a high-tier Standard strategy.
Verdict is too good. It will be played eternally.
Isn't that 2 ways of saying 1 thing? And isn't that 1 thing applicable to every card in that set?
I agree except that I don't think he'll be passed up in casual. 4/4 flying for 4, with a bonus, and popular creature type. Bulk mythic is very unlikely.
What's going on with Duskmantle Seer is a rebound effect.
1) Card is spoiled, and is noted for being "the new _________", where _________ is a similar and very powerful card. In this case, it was Bob.
2) Price goes way up.
3) People notice it's not exactly the same as ________, in that the power level falls short.
4) Massive, massive selloff. Overreaction.
5) Just because it isn't ________ doesn't mean it's toilet paper. Price adjusts to something reasonable.
.
Tell that to the EDH players who worship the very ground the 5 primordials walk on.
I think you got it wrong.
Duskmantle seer is in the wrong colors for Vampires. Casuals like BR Vampires, not uBR vampires. In the same token, Primordials are hot EDH commodities. Local players aren't even blinking at $10 Sylvan Primordial, for example. *If* he sees a rebound, it'll probably be because of tournament play, not casual demand. Casuals hate paying life for stuff.
These primordials has really skewed EDH gameplay in a bad way. The nightmares continues with Clone, Rite of Replication, Deadeye Navigator and Body Double abusing them all day long.
And I thought I had seen the last of Prime Titan.
Back to topic, most players are angry, upset or disappointed everytime they opened a primordial. Many felt it is a waste of box space. They are barely $0.50 card now in my area.
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Sylvan Primordial is like a more restricted Primeval Titan + non-persisting Woodfall Primus in one. Technically it is the more expensive among the primordials (though at that level it does not really matter).
For EDH players, they won't mind more primordials.
Speak for yourself. Obvious inclusions like the Primordials, Omniscience, Enter the Infinite, etc. are boring.
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
True enough, the primordials scream for auto-include in EDH decks. As long as players have EDH decks they will try to put them in somewhere. U can imagine the rush when EDH players try to get them during prerelease and try them out in EDH (for EDH, newly-released sets are legal on prerelease day).
Though yes, as a Standard player also (in fact more Standard than EDH), I would not want to see them in my packs.
If you can get them cheap, they'll be nice trade binder fodder for the foreseeable future.
R Norin the Wary: I've Got a Bad Feeling About This
UG Thrasios & Kydele: Knowledge is Power
RG Borborygmos Enraged: The Breaking of the World
BG The Gitrog Monster: All Glory to the Hypnotoad
WUR Zedruu the Greathearted: Endless Possibilities, One Outcome
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain: What's Dead May Never Die
Turn your junk into something great with PucaTrade!
I've been picking these up for under 1.5 € each for the white, blue and red.
2 € for the black.
and 3 € for the green one.
Non-foils for under 0.15 € each (all colors, White, red and blue are usually 0,03-0,10 €).
I believe that at those prices there's no chance to lose money and I can easily sit on them for a few years, altough it wouldn't shock me to see the prices start increasing even before DMG comes out. I've got 18 foil primordials and about 40 non-foils so far.
Also the redeeming of Gatecrash costs 20 $ more than previously, so foil sets will propably go up by some of that amount. The cost increase should translate into higher foil single prices down the road.
I've also begun buying foil Stolen Identities for around 1 € and foil Illusioninst's Bracers for 1 €, as I doubt those prices will stay that low too long. Stolen Identity is a great General killer on an evasion creature or 'just' a double clone for six mana. There's usually at least one player with no blockers around and at least it will lock down one Maze of Ith.
Notice all prices are from MKM and they don't include shipping. Most of the prices are from drafters, who just want some cash out of their winnings. These prices will not last for long, as sellers will not open more product unless the prices go up some more. But even some retailerrs sell GTC rares cheaply (Luminate Primordials for 0.03 $ each... Cheaper than true bulk)
This set reminds me of Rise of the Eldrazi, low initial rare prices, some of which will explode (Splinter Twin was 0.25 €), when somebody finds a good use for the card. Gyre Sage being so far the best example from GTC. Those were 0,2 € to start with too. There should be one or two more, so buying any cards around bulk prices will never be a bad speculation target.
I personally like the single-colored Encode-rares (Stolen Identity and Undercity Plague) and Wrecking Ogre as they all have potential to move to 0.5-1 € rares after a while. The Ogre is seeing some standard play already and will undoubtably be played in block, as it's a beating. The rat lord should also go up after some time because casual demand.
I would actually be very happy to have spent about 80 € (price of a box) on GTC bulk rares. That would be 4-6 playsets of each and having three go up to 1-2 € will cover the whole pile. The problem is finding a seller for that many cards, as multiple postages will add to costs quite fast.
Set to default
The box price was $115 (compared to $89 as it usually is for the newest box of Standard). By contrast, RTR and back was priced at $105 so I picked up a box of that instead.
Does this shop know something that we all don't, or are they overcharging just because?
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=486633
Overcharging just because.
meat's Trade Corner
But for what it's worth, he's under the impression that more packs of GTC have been bought at this point in the set's life than were bought for RTR. Here's the link to his article: http://www.starcitygames.com/article/25726_Well-That-Escalated-Quickly.html
I suppose its possible, if you assume there wasnt a shortage this time and that the playerbase has grown fairly well since RTR, its entirely possible that GTC could have sold more than RTR. However, given the poor nature of this set, its also quite likely that RTR will end up on top in the long run. From what Ive seen of most sets, significantly more product gets sold within the first month of a set's release than at any other time during its time in-print. In the case of RTR, the early shortages harmed its potential early sales numbers, not allowing them to reach their maximum potential. With gatecrash I imagine there wasnt the shortage, so the sales could flow normally, allowing for a higher sales number by this point in the life-cycle of the set. Its also the case as well that we have at least one ultra-hot card in the set right now in boros reckoner thats also likely helping the sales along as people try to find a cheaper way to pull them than forking out $20+ per card.
I would have to say I agree with this sentiment. RTR was priced above normal at $115/box at release here locally compared to the usual $89 price tag and it was STILL selling out. I haven't seen that happening with GTC. Come to think of it, your point about boros reckoner makes sense for this owner as he would raise the price of a box because BR is only a rare and you're more likely to pull one than a mythic of comparable value.
Since I discovered the Demonic Tutor/Regrowth combo, I personally prefer black and green cards. For that reason, RTR is where it's at for me while GTC is all off colors as far as I'm concerned. That's why I've picked up 6+ boxes of RTR and only 3 of GTC.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=486633
I've priced my GC extremely competitively compared to other sets, and yet have sold maybe 1/10th what I sold for RTR. Yes, a 90% drop in sales. My older sets continue to sell well and at the same pace as before.
5 rares isn't enough to carry any set, especially not one this big.
.
If the cards are popular enough and end up being valuable enough, sometimes a set may only need one valuable card (see worldwake and JTMS) I dont put reckoner at JTMS levels of popularity by any means, but such cards can and do sell sets. Now the average business person like you and me, may look at the set and be like, (why bother?), however if there is demand for 1,000 reckoners, and there is only 500 in the immediate supply for the area, inevitably more GTC will have to be openned in order to meet that demand. Either the sellers will open more to try to meet the demand, or people looking for the card will open packs/boxes looking for the card(s) they want. Pack sales are driven just as much by casual casual players, as they are by casual tournament players (FNM etc), as they are by businesses that open boxes to supply the market with singles. Where there tends to be less pack/box demand, tends to be from the less casual tournament players who may only look for the singles that they want and ignore packs/boxes alltogether (barring insane value like RTR had for a while, for example.
Ive seen us run through packs/boxes of new magic sets like crazy, even when the value was terrible, just because there was a valuable card or three in the set that people were looking for, but didnt want to pay $20/$30/$40 or more for. Its the whole lottery ticket thing. People will spend money blindly on lottery tickets all the time, hoping to win big, however the vast majority win nothing. Same is the case with magic packs, its a gamble anytime you open a pack of magic, however if the potential to get a valuable prize is there, people will go for it, even if the overall average pack/box value may be poor other than a few valuable cards.
Current post- Grand Prix KC Modern Postmortem (7/7/13)
So what do people think about Thespian's Stage? At $5 a couple weeks ago people were saying it was a good buy, and likely to hit $10 or $20. Now it's at $1.5 or less on eBay, and I haven't heard anyone mention it lately at all.
EDIT: Update coming this afternoon.
.
I'd like to know who specifically called for Thespian's Stage to hit the $10+ mark. I don't see the appeal of it.
Looking forward to your update, rancored... our neighbor to the north...
Relying on price data within weeks of a set's release and expecting that to be the trend for a set is a fool's errand. Hellrider was a $1-2 card for almost a year before it became a $6 then $9+ card; this is especially true of cards that will "take off" in EDH, and doubly so for newly minted cards (as much of the value in EDH singles takes time for supply to dry up, coupled with new hype).
Boros Reckoner will probably trend downward for a bit because he is no Snapcaster Mage, though he will probably stay above $10 for as long as red-inclusive aggro is a high-tier Standard strategy.
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