There is probably a happy balance. Blood moon is in Modern, and think there needs to be more card like that. I know the era of 3 mana land destruction is over. The ooze is a good start and putting it in a core set (Hopefully multiple core sets) is the was to go. Some enchantment or even better a hate bear that made all lands come into play tapped like Imposing Sovereign would be savage, have general utility but would punish fetchlands more. Also cards the harm people for searching their library would be consistent with wizards discouraging that.
There is probably a happy balance. Blood moon is in Modern, and think there needs to be more card like that. I know the era of 3 mana land destruction is over. The ooze is a good start and putting it in a core set (Hopefully multiple core sets) is the was to go. Some enchantment or even better a hate bear that made all lands come into play tapped like Imposing Sovereign would be savage, have general utility but would punish fetchlands more. Also cards the harm people for searching their library would be consistent with wizards discouraging that.
There's already Leonin arbiter and Aven mindcensor as well as that enchantment that makes people pay 2 for activated abilities. The deck utilizing the first 2 cards mentioned actually does quite well.
This is one of the reasons I thought banning deathrite was a bad idea. They need to print graveyard hate that has some practical purpose other than sideboard filler. Also more cards that punish land drop. Reprint Ankh of Mishra into Modern and watch some heads roll.
While Ankh of Mishra would be awesome, my concern is that it would just become an automatic 3-4 of in every deck.
Rest in Peace and Relic of Progentis are doing a good job of neutering goyf. There is plenty of Graveyard hate. I wonder if Rest in Peace will see a slight rise cause of that.
There's already Leonin arbiter and Aven mindcensor as well as that enchantment that makes people pay 2 for activated abilities. The deck utilizing the first 2 cards mentioned actually does quite well.
I believe you refer to Suppression Field. While a powerful effect undoubtedly, I am also not sure what deck in Modern can run such a card reliably. Even the D&T lists have to worry about it neutering Aether Vial.
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There's already Leonin arbiter and Aven mindcensor as well as that enchantment that makes people pay 2 for activated abilities. The deck utilizing the first 2 cards mentioned actually does quite well.
I believe you refer to Suppression Field. While a powerful effect undoubtedly, I am also not sure what deck in Modern can run such a card reliably. Even the D&T lists have to worry about it neutering Aether Vial.
If it's not already in Travis Woo's white devotion deck already, it might fit there nicely.
I'm not sure if this has been already said but I believe that Tarmogoyf may still see the same amount of play due to bitterblossom feeding the goyf +2 and also another +1 for your removal spell.
I need a playset badly, I feel like I've missed the boat haha. I don't want to spend more than $400 on a playset Tarmogoyfs. Will I ever see that happen, or should I just buy them soon while I can get them for less than $800!?
I need a playset badly, I feel like I've missed the boat haha. I don't want to spend more than $400 on a playset Tarmogoyfs. Will I ever see that happen, or should I just buy them soon while I can get them for less than $800!?
Contrary to popular belief there are still many Tarmogoyfs for sale for around and under $150. I don't think it very realistic that you can get a playset for less than $400 but maybe around $600? Goyf is a buy it once and never worry about it again kind of card.
I had 3 this year when I was really into modern and ended up selling them for some cube stuff. I do regret getting rid of them but he'll be reprinted again in the future. Bottom line is if you want to buy them, buy them otherwise just wait with everyone else.
I was looking at completed auctions last week and there were quite a few that ended for ~$150 and were NM. $400 this year probably isn't likely, but I wouldn't be surprised if you got a play set, one at a time, for around $500-$550.
I want to obtain this card, four of them. I want to play him in Modern and I have no problem making the investment... if it is indeed an investment. What is the speculation on a second reprint via MM2 or some bogus dual deck? I feel like Wizards is going to find a way to get his value down because he's just a staple in so many modern decks.
I want to obtain this card, four of them. I want to play him in Modern and I have no problem making the investment... if it is indeed an investment. What is the speculation on a second reprint via MM2 or some bogus dual deck? I feel like Wizards is going to find a way to get his value down because he's just a staple in so many modern decks.
Duel deck? Not very likely. They'd fly off the shelves as people bought them for the 'goyfs, and they'd never reach their intended audience. MMII? Much more likely. It's a card that really needs to be reprinted so that people can get their hands on it. Jund is a deck that I just don't consider playing, because I don't have a set of 'goyfs, and I'm sure that I'm not the only one. The card will be reprinted, and probably in such a way as to keep it around $100. They don't want to crash the market on it. Basically, read AFo's article on the first Modern Masters set, and realize that many of the same factors still apply.
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Dual deck was my way of sarcastically saying that Wizards IS going to find some way to reprint it and at the rate they're going they must just get a little bit crazy with it. Thanks for the response, though
Wizards is not going to crash Tarmogoyf, or any card for that matter, with a haphazard reprint. While Tarmogoyfwill get reprinted they will not bring it down as fast as some fear, and others would like.
Too many players are invested in the card. Losing $600 on a playset of Tarmogoyfs will send many players away from MTG forever. That's bad business.
But nonetheless Tarmogoyf will get reprinted and you shouldn't be surprised to see him drop to half his value when that happens.
The price on Tarmogoyf makes him very difficult to reprint. He won't do well in a pre-constructed deck like Duel Deck or Commander. A Modern Event deck would be possible. He is a prime target for an FTV set.
Now there is Modern Masters 2. Speculation about Modern Masters 2 is rampant. If you were to compile a list of every card speculated to be in Modern Masters 2, you would just have a list of the 100 most expensive cards legal in Modern.
Modern Masters covered 6 Blocks + 8th, 9th, 10th and Coldsnap. (23 Sets total)
Currently there are 5 Blocks + 6 Coresets legal in Modern, that were excluded from Modern Masters. (21 Sets total)
That shows there is a good chance that Wizards intended to print a MM2 starting with Magic 2010/Zendikar block and ending with Theros block. Which also happens to cut-off just before the border changed to the new Magic 2015 style. Keep in mind if this set was scheduled for Summer 2015 it's been in-the-works long before Tarmogoyf spiked over $100. Fetchlands are enough to sell the product let alone all the other goodies Modern has received since Magic 2010/Zendikar.
The only way I could see them re-releasing Modern Masters with the same cards is if they dropped the Foil in every pack. Make it feel like a Second Edition. But Modern Masters was Limited and as much sense as it would make to reprint the same set that's a line Wizards may not be willing to cross.
Modern Masters was announced October 2012. Released June 2013.
Conspiracy was announced February 2014, Released June 2014.
If Modern Masters is destined to be the 2015 summer set I would presume we hear something near October. Before Modern starts up in January.
Speculators may be playing a big part in Tarmogoyf and Modern Masters being inflated. Though it's hard to see any speculators thinking Tarmogoyf is a good investment at this point. I consider him very risky. Modern Masters on the other hand is a good investment and there could still be thousands of Tarmogyfs unopened. What will help get some of those boxes to market, I don't know.
Lastly reprints are not the only way to drop Tarmogoyf's price.
Wizards may opt to print some Tarmogoyf hate to drop his playability, specifically in Modern.
They may also opt to ban Tarmogoyf or some other card that helps his playability.
But you can argue that Wizards already tried to print Tarmogoyf hate and ban Tarmogoyf's buddies.
In conclusion, he's not a safe investment and he is do for a reprint or ban if WOTC wants to keep it's Modern staples affordable.
Goyf is now a proven legacy staple too with Shardless BUG winning the last SCG Open.
Any set with a $200 card in it is going to fly of the shelves and drop the price.
If Wizards sells extra expensive boosters in a limited print run they do nothing to help the price.
They need to put it in a cores set which is only standard legal for around 15 months anyway. The problem is fetchlands being printed in the 2015 fall block as obviously putting Goyf and fetches in standard at the same time is a bit crazy.
Goyf has been a legacy staple for 7 years and has been proven to be a staple long before shardless BUG ever existed.
As for speculation wise goyf is an awful investment. Any reprint will easily halve the price of goyf at least/$100 or less for a copy. And goyf will be reprinted sooner rather than later since WotC is obviously not interested in modern having a $200 staple. $800 for 4 cards sound reasonable to you? Didn't think so.
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No one has bothered to comment that modern is getting it's biggest batch of newcomers yet with RtR block rotating out and taking quite a bit of it's standard players with it. I would venture a guess that 85% of the regular 40+ players at my LGS that began with RtR are building or have already built their modern decks for competitive play. I am also willing to bet that my LGS is not alone in this and yours probably is as well. Now just from casually looking through their piles I can't say I have seen a BUG deck yet. Goyf, Bob, and Fetches primarily being the deterrent. Hell I built a extremely competitive B/U Fairie deck for what the Goyfs would have run me. Now I own Goyfs, 2 playsets to be exact and am in little fear of a reprint. No doubt he will be reprinted but his loss of "value" doesn't faze me. He's already been reprinted and the price only went up. The generation of Modern Masters actually created more demand then supply which is why we saw price spikes not just on him but on every other staple in it. The idea of obtaining what was unobtainable further placed these cards into unobtainium. WoTC was well aware of this before they released Modern Masters and is one of the main reasons the set was limited. It'll be done again and will achieve similar results. It's good business. Keep the herd sated just enough that those that didn't get in still feel they have a chance to and when the new peoduct drops watch it fly off the shelves meanwhile releasing public statements saying "how you're doing what you can about stability and blah blah blah".
A Core Set Tarmogoyf seems very unlikely. Putting a $200 card in a ~$90 Box would not only destroy Tarmogoyf's value it would nullify every other card value in the set. Think Chronicles. This would be a haphazard reprint.
Expecting a reprint of Tarmogoyf to spike his price again is Tomfoolery. FTV is the only reprint I can foresee that would keep Tarmogoyfs value from dropping. Players were and still are upset about Modern Masters, most players never even got a chance to see Modern Masters near it's msrp. Modern Masters 2 will still be limited but you could be looking at 10x the print size.
As for players migrating to Modern, I too suspect Modern is growing quickly. But it's difficult to see it happening. Instead we will notice after it has happened.
I think another important thing to consider is; Will Tarmogoyf go UP in price?
I think it's a bit ironic that he was a $100 card before Modern Masters was released. Once he was announced, everyone on these forums and everywhere else were speculating he would drop due to being reprinted. I'm guessing they would have said the same about Vendillion Clique and Dark Confidant. I wasn't around for Modern Masters (one of my biggest regrets about taking a break from MTG during that time), but since the release, most of the staples for Legacy/Modern doubled in price.
IF he gets reprinted again, I'm guessing he'll just drop a bit, but not down to $100. If he did drop to $100, I wouldn't complain, since I traded mine off @ $100 when all that speculation was going on.
Go up in price? If goyf isn't reprinted next summer then yes. Otherwise not happening in all likelihood. As for a reprint keeping tarmogoyf where it's at? No sir. I doubt WotC wants the posterchild of modern at $200. Tarmogoyf isn't black lotus.
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Tarmogoyf will continue to rise until reprinted, though you would expect to see a tipping point eventually.
Modern Masters was designed to lower the entry point for Modern and attract players to Modern. In many respects it succeeded. Modern Masters is pinned as not lowering the entry point because Tarmgoyf & Dark Confidant spiked hard when it released. But in reality Modern Masters lowered and stabilized almost everything else Murderous Redcap, Kitchen Finks, Aether Vial, Vendillion Clique, Arcbound Ravager etc, etc. The list really is quite long. Some of those staples have since spiked, nonetheless they were lowered.
So why did Tarmogoyf & Dark Confidant spike and why did Vendillion Clique, Cryptic Command follow suite 6 months later? Because Modern Masters succeeded in bringing in new players. The rush of players trying entering Modern combined with the Modern players waiting for Tarmogoyf & Dark Confidant to get reprinted quickly showed us that demand was going to outpace supply. 6 Months later Modern season starts and we see several other cards spike.
Modern Masters a success in every way but Print Size.
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There's already Leonin arbiter and Aven mindcensor as well as that enchantment that makes people pay 2 for activated abilities. The deck utilizing the first 2 cards mentioned actually does quite well.
While Ankh of Mishra would be awesome, my concern is that it would just become an automatic 3-4 of in every deck.
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I believe you refer to Suppression Field. While a powerful effect undoubtedly, I am also not sure what deck in Modern can run such a card reliably. Even the D&T lists have to worry about it neutering Aether Vial.
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Legacy:
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If it's not already in Travis Woo's white devotion deck already, it might fit there nicely.
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Contrary to popular belief there are still many Tarmogoyfs for sale for around and under $150. I don't think it very realistic that you can get a playset for less than $400 but maybe around $600? Goyf is a buy it once and never worry about it again kind of card.
I had 3 this year when I was really into modern and ended up selling them for some cube stuff. I do regret getting rid of them but he'll be reprinted again in the future. Bottom line is if you want to buy them, buy them otherwise just wait with everyone else.
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Duel deck? Not very likely. They'd fly off the shelves as people bought them for the 'goyfs, and they'd never reach their intended audience. MMII? Much more likely. It's a card that really needs to be reprinted so that people can get their hands on it. Jund is a deck that I just don't consider playing, because I don't have a set of 'goyfs, and I'm sure that I'm not the only one. The card will be reprinted, and probably in such a way as to keep it around $100. They don't want to crash the market on it. Basically, read AFo's article on the first Modern Masters set, and realize that many of the same factors still apply.
Too many players are invested in the card. Losing $600 on a playset of Tarmogoyfs will send many players away from MTG forever. That's bad business.
But nonetheless Tarmogoyf will get reprinted and you shouldn't be surprised to see him drop to half his value when that happens.
The price on Tarmogoyf makes him very difficult to reprint. He won't do well in a pre-constructed deck like Duel Deck or Commander. A Modern Event deck would be possible. He is a prime target for an FTV set.
Now there is Modern Masters 2. Speculation about Modern Masters 2 is rampant. If you were to compile a list of every card speculated to be in Modern Masters 2, you would just have a list of the 100 most expensive cards legal in Modern.
Modern Masters covered 6 Blocks + 8th, 9th, 10th and Coldsnap. (23 Sets total)
Currently there are 5 Blocks + 6 Coresets legal in Modern, that were excluded from Modern Masters. (21 Sets total)
That shows there is a good chance that Wizards intended to print a MM2 starting with Magic 2010/Zendikar block and ending with Theros block. Which also happens to cut-off just before the border changed to the new Magic 2015 style. Keep in mind if this set was scheduled for Summer 2015 it's been in-the-works long before Tarmogoyf spiked over $100. Fetchlands are enough to sell the product let alone all the other goodies Modern has received since Magic 2010/Zendikar.
The only way I could see them re-releasing Modern Masters with the same cards is if they dropped the Foil in every pack. Make it feel like a Second Edition. But Modern Masters was Limited and as much sense as it would make to reprint the same set that's a line Wizards may not be willing to cross.
Modern Masters was announced October 2012. Released June 2013.
Conspiracy was announced February 2014, Released June 2014.
If Modern Masters is destined to be the 2015 summer set I would presume we hear something near October. Before Modern starts up in January.
Speculators may be playing a big part in Tarmogoyf and Modern Masters being inflated. Though it's hard to see any speculators thinking Tarmogoyf is a good investment at this point. I consider him very risky. Modern Masters on the other hand is a good investment and there could still be thousands of Tarmogyfs unopened. What will help get some of those boxes to market, I don't know.
Lastly reprints are not the only way to drop Tarmogoyf's price.
Wizards may opt to print some Tarmogoyf hate to drop his playability, specifically in Modern.
They may also opt to ban Tarmogoyf or some other card that helps his playability.
But you can argue that Wizards already tried to print Tarmogoyf hate and ban Tarmogoyf's buddies.
In conclusion, he's not a safe investment and he is do for a reprint or ban if WOTC wants to keep it's Modern staples affordable.
Any set with a $200 card in it is going to fly of the shelves and drop the price.
If Wizards sells extra expensive boosters in a limited print run they do nothing to help the price.
They need to put it in a cores set which is only standard legal for around 15 months anyway. The problem is fetchlands being printed in the 2015 fall block as obviously putting Goyf and fetches in standard at the same time is a bit crazy.
M17 anybody?
As for speculation wise goyf is an awful investment. Any reprint will easily halve the price of goyf at least/$100 or less for a copy. And goyf will be reprinted sooner rather than later since WotC is obviously not interested in modern having a $200 staple. $800 for 4 cards sound reasonable to you? Didn't think so.
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Bring on the reprints.
Expecting a reprint of Tarmogoyf to spike his price again is Tomfoolery. FTV is the only reprint I can foresee that would keep Tarmogoyfs value from dropping. Players were and still are upset about Modern Masters, most players never even got a chance to see Modern Masters near it's msrp. Modern Masters 2 will still be limited but you could be looking at 10x the print size.
As for players migrating to Modern, I too suspect Modern is growing quickly. But it's difficult to see it happening. Instead we will notice after it has happened.
I think it's a bit ironic that he was a $100 card before Modern Masters was released. Once he was announced, everyone on these forums and everywhere else were speculating he would drop due to being reprinted. I'm guessing they would have said the same about Vendillion Clique and Dark Confidant. I wasn't around for Modern Masters (one of my biggest regrets about taking a break from MTG during that time), but since the release, most of the staples for Legacy/Modern doubled in price.
IF he gets reprinted again, I'm guessing he'll just drop a bit, but not down to $100. If he did drop to $100, I wouldn't complain, since I traded mine off @ $100 when all that speculation was going on.
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Modern Masters was designed to lower the entry point for Modern and attract players to Modern. In many respects it succeeded. Modern Masters is pinned as not lowering the entry point because Tarmgoyf & Dark Confidant spiked hard when it released. But in reality Modern Masters lowered and stabilized almost everything else Murderous Redcap, Kitchen Finks, Aether Vial, Vendillion Clique, Arcbound Ravager etc, etc. The list really is quite long. Some of those staples have since spiked, nonetheless they were lowered.
So why did Tarmogoyf & Dark Confidant spike and why did Vendillion Clique, Cryptic Command follow suite 6 months later? Because Modern Masters succeeded in bringing in new players. The rush of players trying entering Modern combined with the Modern players waiting for Tarmogoyf & Dark Confidant to get reprinted quickly showed us that demand was going to outpace supply. 6 Months later Modern season starts and we see several other cards spike.
Modern Masters a success in every way but Print Size.