About a week or so ago, I ordered an Italian Nether Void from Ebay. The card seemed "gem" mint in the picture (and was), and was stated to having come from the home of a former player.
When I opened the already late package, this is what I found:
I am extremely angry. The listing described the owner as a former MTG player. Doesn't every MTG player on the planet know to use a top-loader and sleeve at the very least? Doesn't it occur to every MTG/card game player that it is quite easy to destroy a card like that, if all of the weight is on the card when trying to remove it? Christ.
Note: I was not offered any other shipping options.
The total came to $75.75, with $.75 of that for shipping. I realize that it's not high, but you'd think that someone would put more than zero effort into protection. While the card that came is mint, I can't fathom how it stayed that way.
I'd like to file a complaint over this, and I'm wondering what is the appropriate way to accomplish this and what kind/or if I should ask for any kind of compensation.
That link dont work so I don't know what the card looks like.
If the card is like bent in half or damaged, just file an item not as described claim with ebay and get your money back. Contact the seller first and ask to return it.
Some people say they play MTG so people think they actually know what they are talking about. I have bought several MTG and Pokemon cards on ebay and the buyer simply threw the card in an envelope and sent it off. Some people are just not that bright.
I updated the image. The card itself was mint, but I'm furious that it was so poorly defended, especially when it was supposed to have been sent and in the mail during Hurricane Sandy. I live in NY and the seller is not close by enough to have been affected by it.
The card made it to you safely so I cannot see any reason for a complaint. Complaints are for real reasons - product took too long, was damaged, etc. etc. The seller took a gamble and maybe you should tell him such, but a complaint is hardly justified.
what kind/or if I should ask for any kind of compensation
/no. Compensation for WHAT? You got exactly what you paid for.
The card is: sleeved, taped securely to cardboard, and arrived to you undamaged. A lot of sellers use cardboard instead of toploaders (I use toploaders personally) and sellers assume 100% of the risk on ebay and with mailing. You, as a buyer, took zero risk and have all the recourse. You weren't shorted anything. Being angry and wanting compensation strikes me as ridiculous in this scenario.
As an aside, you might not have been offered any other type of shipping but that is also irrelevant - you click buy knowing the terms of shipping.
About a week or so ago, I ordered an Italian Nether Void from Ebay. The card seemed "gem" mint in the picture (and was), and was stated to having come from the home of a former player.
When I opened the already late package, this is what I found:
I am extremely angry. The listing described the owner as a former MTG player. Doesn't every MTG player on the planet know to use a top-loader and sleeve at the very least? Doesn't it occur to every MTG/card game player that it is quite easy to destroy a card like that, if all of the weight is on the card when trying to remove it? Christ.
Note: I was not offered any other shipping options.
The total came to $75.75, with $.75 of that for shipping. I realize that it's not high, but you'd think that someone would put more than zero effort into protection. While the card that came is mint, I can't fathom how it stayed that way.
I'd like to file a complaint over this, and I'm wondering what is the appropriate way to accomplish this and what kind/or if I should ask for any kind of compensation.
The seller did a superb job in getting you a mint card delivered safely and without damage, for next to nothing. He should be commended!
Personally, if I were using cardboard like that, I would have made it on both sides of the card, and I would have done a better job with the tape.
However, it did not. While he paid for tracking, it also suddenly stopped updating about partway through. It took 3 days for it to navigate through NYC, and was a nightmare of an experience trying to coordinate with USPS and a postalwoman who refused to deliver it.
And to be honest, you can easily put a top-loader on a card for less than $.75 cents. The card was packaged in a brown envelope like most are, but I honestly find the lack of a top-loader to be a serious blemish - if you aren't going to do the entire job properly, why do even part of it? I've mailed many cards in toploaders before and I can never remember a serious change in price due to it.
I honestly find the lack of a top-loader to be a serious blemish - if you aren't going to do the entire job properly, why do even part of it?
So... the listing said it came with a particular plastic case, but when it arrived, the case was missing? Or did you mistakenly assume there would be a particular plastic case included?
I've shipped about 15000 orders over the years (eBay, my website, trades, etc) and maybe 5% of the time involved "top loader" cases. They aren't always the best way to ship. I use them when I think they're the best option, considering many factors. I have an excellent track record of Magic card shipping to pretty much every city in the world, if I do say so myself
Your attempts to show the seller to be negligent make you look kinda silly, from my perspective. It's like you're joking.
You said the card came mint then why do you care exactly?
Everyone ships cards differently. I've been sending and receiving cards for close to 20 years and I used to ship cards in sleeves and paper wrapping they would end up just fine. I mean yeah you spent a lot of money for a card, but if it came in decent enough condition then why file a complaint? Just because it wasn't shipped to your specifications? Did you talk to him about shipping before he shipped the card? Or did you just assume it would come that way?
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I just want people who redraft to admit this:
"I can't draft objectively unless I am able to guarantee that I receive at least 3 rares. I am also better than most average/new players so I want to make sure that I get the best rares and they end up with worse ones. I care more about the monetary value of cards than actually playing the game for decent prizes."
This seller just keeps getting better and better. He paid for tracking out of his own pocket? Wow!
So... the listing said it came with a particular plastic case, but when it arrived, the case was missing? Or did you mistakenly assume there would be a particular plastic case included?
I've shipped about 15000 orders over the years (eBay, my website, trades, etc) and maybe 5% of the time involved "top loader" cases. They aren't always the best way to ship.
Your attempts to show the seller to be negligent make you look kinda silly, from my perspective. It's like you're joking.
How do you tend to ship cards? Please send me a picture of what you usually do as I've never heard of anyone not using a toploader.
And please don't attempt to insult me or devalue my perspective simply because it does not align with yours. Personally, if I listed a $75 item and did not include tracking with shipping, I would feel as if I was being negligent to the buyer, and would always pay for it myself because the $2-3 is irrelevant compared to the sale. But I would never presume that I should have done anything less. Tracking was noted in the ebay listing btw, I don't think I mentioned that.
Pwner1: Some of it does, as there wasn't a lot of communication between seller/buyer (none). I included that to show why this experience has seriously bothered my opinion of online ordering.
You paid $.75 for shipping and it was tracked. He is not responsible for the service shipping to update you. The card got to you in great shape with out any visible damage. What were you expecting for $.75? I really can't believe that you think you have any reason to be compensated and hope you never win anything from me.
I really think what you should do is give him 5 stars for shipping cost, stars based on how fast he shipped it, 5 stars for description and 4 stars for communication since you feel he should have told you more about the $.75 tracked shipping you received.
How do you tend to ship cards? Please send me a picture of what you usually do as I've never heard of anyone not using a toploader.
And please don't attempt to insult me or devalue my perspective simply because it does not align with yours. Personally, if I listed a $75 item and did not include shipping, I would feel as if I was being negligent to the buyer, and would always pay for it myself because the $2-3 is irrelevant compared to the sale. But I would never presume that I should have done anything less. Tracking was noted in the ebay listing btw, I don't think I mentioned that.
Pwner1: Some of it does, as there wasn't a lot of communication between seller/buyer (none). I included that to show why this experience has seriously bothered my opinion of online ordering.
you put a card in a sleeve and use regular paper to "wrap the card". we usually always send in bubble mailers but sending in regular envelopes is usually just fine as well. You don't always need a top loader. I don't always get a top loader when I buy cards from online stores and I never had an issue with it.
why are bothered by online ordering? because someone didn't get a toploader when a card was sent in the mail (and from what I understand it was taped to some cardboard in a sleeve and it arrived perfectly?)
EDIT: then you want to complain that because it was sent during a hurricane that the seller is somehow responsible for that too? How was he supposed to know someone from NY or the Northeast was going to win his auction? Your card arrived fine. I don't see the issue with this at all.
"I can't draft objectively unless I am able to guarantee that I receive at least 3 rares. I am also better than most average/new players so I want to make sure that I get the best rares and they end up with worse ones. I care more about the monetary value of cards than actually playing the game for decent prizes."
Pwner1: Some of it does, as there wasn't a lot of communication between seller/buyer (none). I included that to show why this experience has seriously bothered my opinion of online ordering.
I fail to understand how communication would have made the tracking work or the postal offices in NYC handle your package to your desired level of ability.
I sell up to 50 sales on ebay per week at times. There are very few instances where communication is needed. I messaged a person today simply because I noticed they lived near by and to wish them goodluck in FNM with the cards. Usually though I just print the label, drop the cards off, and post positive feedback.
The seller has absolutely nothing to do with your order after they put it in the outgoing box at the post office.
You seem incredibly nitpicky to me. Which is fine. We can all be nitpicky about things we care about. Try to realize that a person sold you a card, got it to you in mint condition, and that most people aren't going to have any sympathy at this point for you since you lost nothing. A lot worse could have happened and in those cases maybe we'd have some sympathy for you.
I'm also not simply talking from seller bias. I buy orders a lot on ebay too. I've gotten cards that look like that. I've gotten cards simply in an envelope with no protection and it has baffled me that there was no damage. But if there is no damage there is no damage and I'm not going to complain one bit.
you put a card in a sleeve and use regular paper to "wrap the card". we usually always send in bubble mailers but sending in regular envelopes is usually just fine as well. You don't always need a top loader. I don't always get a top loader when I buy cards from online stores and I never had an issue with it.
why are bothered by online ordering? because someone didn't get a toploader when a card was sent in the mail (and from what I understand it was taped to some cardboard in a sleeve and it arrived perfectly?)
To further clarify:
I used to trade on Pojo, for about 5 or so years. During that time, toploaders were essentially a requirement. Not sending a maximum of two cards per toploader was breaking a rule and usually lead to a dispute in the PTC.
I was, in essence, brought up to believe that one always used a toploader, because every other order or shipment without one would inevitably take damage or end in a dispute. While it occurred to me that individual traders might not take such a precaution, Ebay's bias toward buyers led me to conclude that most sellers would be more risk-averse. Part of this is also based on the fact that we used to use regular envelopes exclusively and not charge for shipping, whereas the bubble envelopers are probably stronger then I give them credit for.
Pwner1: I know that the shipping/tracking issues are not his fault, but I wanted to present as full an image as possible to why I might have come off more angry then usual. Since I've cooled off since the first posting a bit, I can explain this more logically and less emotionally.
While I agree that my original statement seems nitpicky and obsessive, the reason why it bothers me so much is the fact that the shipping conditions of the Nether Void felt very minimal and could have exposed the card to a potential risk. The base of my problem here is that, by not taking the step of using a toploader, I feel as if the seller doesn't really care about the potential harm and risks, which is exemplified by the fact that he already has my money and can leverage the tracking against me if needed. I've also found that removing cards from that type of packaging can often lead to disaster with trying remove tape without hurting the card.
Urzishra: What bothers me the most is how far apart my perspective on shipping was with what other people believed to be true. I have never heard a seller, apart from now, suggest that a sale did not necessarily need a toploader.
I'm not going to ask for compensation, as the card being mint is more then enough and I am grateful for that. I think most of my first post was an emotional reaction to this order being a huge fiasco with my local post office and my building's losing of the package for a day, where I had to point through boxes to find it myself. However, in comparison, I received a package from another seller that night, of 4x Abrupt Decay. That order came out to $21 with shipping, and each card was two to a penny sleeve, in a spotless toploader, wrapped in the receipt in the same kind of bubble envelope. While the shipping was noted at $3, the low price of $18 balanced it out, and this order also had a tracking number, though the seller didn't tell me of it.
TLDR: My perspective/life experiences are different then post here. Please respect them and I will do the same of yours.
I'm not saying that I expect cards to come in the mail with absolutely no protection at all. In fact, I've never seen a card not shipped in at least a sleeve/toploader in either bubble mailer or heavily fortified (either with paper or cardboard).
I personally would be very ticked off it all it came in was the sleeve floating around inside an envelope. Especially for a 75 dollar card, but the guy did a lot that was above and beyond 75 cent shipping. That easily cost him at least 2 or 3 bucks sending it (the cost of going to the post office gas/time added weight of the cardboard..i guess..and then tracking which is something that ALL sellers have to have).
I respect your opinion and your life experience, but I never been/seen a forum that required you to send a card in a top loader. I think this would have turned out differently if he explicitly said in the notes that "I ship all my cards with a top loader..." or you requested it personally to be shipped that way.
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I just want people who redraft to admit this:
"I can't draft objectively unless I am able to guarantee that I receive at least 3 rares. I am also better than most average/new players so I want to make sure that I get the best rares and they end up with worse ones. I care more about the monetary value of cards than actually playing the game for decent prizes."
I'm not saying that I expect cards to come in the mail with absolutely no protection at all. In fact, I've never seen a card not shipped in at least a sleeve/toploader in either bubble mailer or heavily fortified (either with paper or cardboard).
I personally would be very ticked off it all it came in was the sleeve floating around inside an envelope. Especially for a 75 dollar card, but the guy did a lot that was above and beyond 75 cent shipping. That easily cost him at least 2 or 3 bucks sending it (the cost of going to the post office gas/time added weight of the cardboard..i guess..and then tracking which is something that ALL sellers have to have).
I respect your opinion and your life experience, but I never been/seen a forum that required you to send a card in a top loader. I think this would have turned out differently if he explicitly said in the notes that "I ship all my cards with a top loader..." or you requested it personally to be shipped that way.
This is more or less what I mean, though I usually don't account for gas because I'm usually in cities and walk to the post office almost all of the time. Based on my experiences/knowledge, I think you can see that, IMO, doing due diligence, minus the toploader, is the same as it being thrown around randomly to you. Most of the auctions I have seen for cards state that they ship in toploaders as well.
Let's not have it be too personal here. Focus on the shipping aspect.
I feel this is more preference if anything. To me, if a card was packaged with something I feel is sturdy, whether it be cardboard or a toploader (I've even had a metal plate once) and it kept the card safe, that's great. The seller fulfilled their responsibility of getting the card to me safely, and that is what matters in the end.
Now if the seller sent it to me, just thrown in an envelope and a penny sleeve, but was still in NM condition, I would definitely bring it up to them, but still require no compensation. The only time I would require compensation is if I received something that was not advertised as such.
I'm not sure I'm seeing the problem here. You paid for a mint card. You got a mint card. You can't blame someone for something that didn't happen. I bought a timetwister of ebay awhile back from a guy with 100% and 1500 feedback. It came in a PWE wrapped in construction paper with a penny sleeve. I too thought that was quite minimal, and brought it to the attention of the seller. He said that he's always shipping like that and has never had a card get damaged.
I guess it's a matter of perspective. A seller treats all cards the same, no matter the value. Many sellers do a lot of business, so they have to find the most efficient way to ship a card safely, otherwise they could be spending 10 minutes per package getting the tap exactly right. Your card was attached to a piece of thick cardboard inside a sleeve, which seems more than enough to me. Toploaders are not infallible, and they can still bend. The difference is a toploader can be mailed in a PWE and will cost $.60 (where I live). That cardboard probably cost more since it's thicker.
I think the post starter is more obsessed with toploaders than with the card itself. In the description of the item did the seller state he was going to ship via toploaders? Did you message the seller requesting the card to be shipped via toploader?
If toploader is so important to you, why would you purchase any item that did not disclose the method of card storage during shipment.
What I hate about MKM is that some sellers go way overboard with the ducktape. Sometimes I'm spending like 10 minutes to get the cards out of the intangible mess of paper and tape. One piece of tape is enough imo.
Sometimes I think over doing it with tape has a greater chance to wreck the card. Sometimes I am worried about damaging the cards with some packages I have received.
This post is silly. What drives me nuts is when sellers ship the card in a top loader, but don't secure the card inside of it. I've had more than one card arrive partway out of the top loader. Only one card was actually damaged by this, but a careless postal employee could have easily bent the card in half. It takes 2 seconds to stick on some tape to seal off the top loader and prevent this.
Sure you have the right to be upset. However, you are not damaged and deserve no compensation to make you whole. Email the seller and explain why you think his shipping methods was not secure. You would probably be doing him a favor.
BTW I have received a lot worse. The seller is lucky it was not damaged, but there is nothing to compensate you for.
I'd just count yourself lucky and maybe make note in the feedback that your card did arrive safely but it was shipped in an unsafe manner.
I've received cards like this several times here on Salvation in trades. And half of the time the cards were poking out out of the actual sleeve and it's a miracle that they didn't get bent. I've also received packages where someone stuck a few cards in a really thick/stretched out hard case or they stuck cards in a hard case with no penny/deck sleeve on them and the cards were touching against the tape used to tape the hard case shut (luckily they weren't stuck and not damaged by the tape but it really made me nervous trying to gently remove them!). In all of those cases, I still left the person positive feedback and just told them that in the future they should probably use hard cases or be more careful with how they ship or whatever. The cards could have been damaged, but they weren't, so there was no reason to hold it against them or expect any compensation.
I was, in essence, brought up to believe that one always used a toploader, because every other order or shipment without one would inevitably take damage or end in a dispute. While it occurred to me that individual traders might not take such a precaution, Ebay's bias toward buyers led me to conclude that most sellers would be more risk-averse. Part of this is also based on the fact that we used to use regular envelopes exclusively and not charge for shipping, whereas the bubble envelopers are probably stronger then I give them credit for.
Many people on ebay don't use a top loader. Many use the cardboard method you received. Many players and retired players don't own toploaders anyways. I think the card board method is fine for shipping individual cards. Maybe you should stop buying cards on ebay if you feel so strongly about the need for toploaders?
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When I opened the already late package, this is what I found:
http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/6315/photoruf.jpg
I am extremely angry. The listing described the owner as a former MTG player. Doesn't every MTG player on the planet know to use a top-loader and sleeve at the very least? Doesn't it occur to every MTG/card game player that it is quite easy to destroy a card like that, if all of the weight is on the card when trying to remove it? Christ.
Note: I was not offered any other shipping options.
The total came to $75.75, with $.75 of that for shipping. I realize that it's not high, but you'd think that someone would put more than zero effort into protection. While the card that came is mint, I can't fathom how it stayed that way.
I'd like to file a complaint over this, and I'm wondering what is the appropriate way to accomplish this and what kind/or if I should ask for any kind of compensation.
You could leave either neutral or positive feedback, then state in the comments that it was not packaged well.
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If the card is like bent in half or damaged, just file an item not as described claim with ebay and get your money back. Contact the seller first and ask to return it.
Some people say they play MTG so people think they actually know what they are talking about. I have bought several MTG and Pokemon cards on ebay and the buyer simply threw the card in an envelope and sent it off. Some people are just not that bright.
/no. Compensation for WHAT? You got exactly what you paid for.
The card is: sleeved, taped securely to cardboard, and arrived to you undamaged. A lot of sellers use cardboard instead of toploaders (I use toploaders personally) and sellers assume 100% of the risk on ebay and with mailing. You, as a buyer, took zero risk and have all the recourse. You weren't shorted anything. Being angry and wanting compensation strikes me as ridiculous in this scenario.
As an aside, you might not have been offered any other type of shipping but that is also irrelevant - you click buy knowing the terms of shipping.
The seller did a superb job in getting you a mint card delivered safely and without damage, for next to nothing. He should be commended!
Personally, if I were using cardboard like that, I would have made it on both sides of the card, and I would have done a better job with the tape.
.
And to be honest, you can easily put a top-loader on a card for less than $.75 cents. The card was packaged in a brown envelope like most are, but I honestly find the lack of a top-loader to be a serious blemish - if you aren't going to do the entire job properly, why do even part of it? I've mailed many cards in toploaders before and I can never remember a serious change in price due to it.
The shipping issues sound inconsequential to me as they have absolutely nothing to do with the seller.
This seller just keeps getting better and better. He paid for tracking out of his own pocket? Wow!
So... the listing said it came with a particular plastic case, but when it arrived, the case was missing? Or did you mistakenly assume there would be a particular plastic case included?
I've shipped about 15000 orders over the years (eBay, my website, trades, etc) and maybe 5% of the time involved "top loader" cases. They aren't always the best way to ship. I use them when I think they're the best option, considering many factors. I have an excellent track record of Magic card shipping to pretty much every city in the world, if I do say so myself
Your attempts to show the seller to be negligent make you look kinda silly, from my perspective. It's like you're joking.
.
Everyone ships cards differently. I've been sending and receiving cards for close to 20 years and I used to ship cards in sleeves and paper wrapping they would end up just fine. I mean yeah you spent a lot of money for a card, but if it came in decent enough condition then why file a complaint? Just because it wasn't shipped to your specifications? Did you talk to him about shipping before he shipped the card? Or did you just assume it would come that way?
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How do you tend to ship cards? Please send me a picture of what you usually do as I've never heard of anyone not using a toploader.
And please don't attempt to insult me or devalue my perspective simply because it does not align with yours. Personally, if I listed a $75 item and did not include tracking with shipping, I would feel as if I was being negligent to the buyer, and would always pay for it myself because the $2-3 is irrelevant compared to the sale. But I would never presume that I should have done anything less. Tracking was noted in the ebay listing btw, I don't think I mentioned that.
Pwner1: Some of it does, as there wasn't a lot of communication between seller/buyer (none). I included that to show why this experience has seriously bothered my opinion of online ordering.
I really think what you should do is give him 5 stars for shipping cost, stars based on how fast he shipped it, 5 stars for description and 4 stars for communication since you feel he should have told you more about the $.75 tracked shipping you received.
you put a card in a sleeve and use regular paper to "wrap the card". we usually always send in bubble mailers but sending in regular envelopes is usually just fine as well. You don't always need a top loader. I don't always get a top loader when I buy cards from online stores and I never had an issue with it.
why are bothered by online ordering? because someone didn't get a toploader when a card was sent in the mail (and from what I understand it was taped to some cardboard in a sleeve and it arrived perfectly?)
EDIT: then you want to complain that because it was sent during a hurricane that the seller is somehow responsible for that too? How was he supposed to know someone from NY or the Northeast was going to win his auction? Your card arrived fine. I don't see the issue with this at all.
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I fail to understand how communication would have made the tracking work or the postal offices in NYC handle your package to your desired level of ability.
I sell up to 50 sales on ebay per week at times. There are very few instances where communication is needed. I messaged a person today simply because I noticed they lived near by and to wish them goodluck in FNM with the cards. Usually though I just print the label, drop the cards off, and post positive feedback.
The seller has absolutely nothing to do with your order after they put it in the outgoing box at the post office.
You seem incredibly nitpicky to me. Which is fine. We can all be nitpicky about things we care about. Try to realize that a person sold you a card, got it to you in mint condition, and that most people aren't going to have any sympathy at this point for you since you lost nothing. A lot worse could have happened and in those cases maybe we'd have some sympathy for you.
I'm also not simply talking from seller bias. I buy orders a lot on ebay too. I've gotten cards that look like that. I've gotten cards simply in an envelope with no protection and it has baffled me that there was no damage. But if there is no damage there is no damage and I'm not going to complain one bit.
To further clarify:
I used to trade on Pojo, for about 5 or so years. During that time, toploaders were essentially a requirement. Not sending a maximum of two cards per toploader was breaking a rule and usually lead to a dispute in the PTC.
I was, in essence, brought up to believe that one always used a toploader, because every other order or shipment without one would inevitably take damage or end in a dispute. While it occurred to me that individual traders might not take such a precaution, Ebay's bias toward buyers led me to conclude that most sellers would be more risk-averse. Part of this is also based on the fact that we used to use regular envelopes exclusively and not charge for shipping, whereas the bubble envelopers are probably stronger then I give them credit for.
Pwner1: I know that the shipping/tracking issues are not his fault, but I wanted to present as full an image as possible to why I might have come off more angry then usual. Since I've cooled off since the first posting a bit, I can explain this more logically and less emotionally.
While I agree that my original statement seems nitpicky and obsessive, the reason why it bothers me so much is the fact that the shipping conditions of the Nether Void felt very minimal and could have exposed the card to a potential risk. The base of my problem here is that, by not taking the step of using a toploader, I feel as if the seller doesn't really care about the potential harm and risks, which is exemplified by the fact that he already has my money and can leverage the tracking against me if needed. I've also found that removing cards from that type of packaging can often lead to disaster with trying remove tape without hurting the card.
Urzishra: What bothers me the most is how far apart my perspective on shipping was with what other people believed to be true. I have never heard a seller, apart from now, suggest that a sale did not necessarily need a toploader.
I'm not going to ask for compensation, as the card being mint is more then enough and I am grateful for that. I think most of my first post was an emotional reaction to this order being a huge fiasco with my local post office and my building's losing of the package for a day, where I had to point through boxes to find it myself. However, in comparison, I received a package from another seller that night, of 4x Abrupt Decay. That order came out to $21 with shipping, and each card was two to a penny sleeve, in a spotless toploader, wrapped in the receipt in the same kind of bubble envelope. While the shipping was noted at $3, the low price of $18 balanced it out, and this order also had a tracking number, though the seller didn't tell me of it.
TLDR: My perspective/life experiences are different then post here. Please respect them and I will do the same of yours.
I personally would be very ticked off it all it came in was the sleeve floating around inside an envelope. Especially for a 75 dollar card, but the guy did a lot that was above and beyond 75 cent shipping. That easily cost him at least 2 or 3 bucks sending it (the cost of going to the post office gas/time added weight of the cardboard..i guess..and then tracking which is something that ALL sellers have to have).
I respect your opinion and your life experience, but I never been/seen a forum that required you to send a card in a top loader. I think this would have turned out differently if he explicitly said in the notes that "I ship all my cards with a top loader..." or you requested it personally to be shipped that way.
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This is more or less what I mean, though I usually don't account for gas because I'm usually in cities and walk to the post office almost all of the time. Based on my experiences/knowledge, I think you can see that, IMO, doing due diligence, minus the toploader, is the same as it being thrown around randomly to you. Most of the auctions I have seen for cards state that they ship in toploaders as well.
I feel this is more preference if anything. To me, if a card was packaged with something I feel is sturdy, whether it be cardboard or a toploader (I've even had a metal plate once) and it kept the card safe, that's great. The seller fulfilled their responsibility of getting the card to me safely, and that is what matters in the end.
Now if the seller sent it to me, just thrown in an envelope and a penny sleeve, but was still in NM condition, I would definitely bring it up to them, but still require no compensation. The only time I would require compensation is if I received something that was not advertised as such.
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I guess it's a matter of perspective. A seller treats all cards the same, no matter the value. Many sellers do a lot of business, so they have to find the most efficient way to ship a card safely, otherwise they could be spending 10 minutes per package getting the tap exactly right. Your card was attached to a piece of thick cardboard inside a sleeve, which seems more than enough to me. Toploaders are not infallible, and they can still bend. The difference is a toploader can be mailed in a PWE and will cost $.60 (where I live). That cardboard probably cost more since it's thicker.
If toploader is so important to you, why would you purchase any item that did not disclose the method of card storage during shipment.
Sometimes I think over doing it with tape has a greater chance to wreck the card. Sometimes I am worried about damaging the cards with some packages I have received.
BTW I have received a lot worse. The seller is lucky it was not damaged, but there is nothing to compensate you for.
I've received cards like this several times here on Salvation in trades. And half of the time the cards were poking out out of the actual sleeve and it's a miracle that they didn't get bent. I've also received packages where someone stuck a few cards in a really thick/stretched out hard case or they stuck cards in a hard case with no penny/deck sleeve on them and the cards were touching against the tape used to tape the hard case shut (luckily they weren't stuck and not damaged by the tape but it really made me nervous trying to gently remove them!). In all of those cases, I still left the person positive feedback and just told them that in the future they should probably use hard cases or be more careful with how they ship or whatever. The cards could have been damaged, but they weren't, so there was no reason to hold it against them or expect any compensation.
Still wish people wouldn't do that, though.
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(Signature courtesy of Argetlam of Hakai Studios
Many people on ebay don't use a top loader. Many use the cardboard method you received. Many players and retired players don't own toploaders anyways. I think the card board method is fine for shipping individual cards. Maybe you should stop buying cards on ebay if you feel so strongly about the need for toploaders?