I'm sorry to hear that people are more worried because of this incident. Sad but true I guess.
Though, this guy is nothing compared to NiceGuy101. He was my first ever online trade and he took me for $120 back then (value has since skyrocketed, lol at $30 Underground Seas). I was one of the few (5 or so out of 50) that sent with Registered Mail to Canada. A lot good it did me. I filed mail fraud but nothing happened. He was smart though. He used four-five fake names, sent to a random address in Canada, and got about 30 references before his spree. He actually planned it.
I'm glad I've built up so many references that I will likely never get caught like that again, but there really is nothing that we (moderators) can do to prevent things like this. Just gotta hope people are more away and less stupid, to put it blunt.
And I want to just remind everyone that the moment this thread turns into a 'rally to get DJRome' I will lock it and start infracting. Thanks.
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Quote from Matt McCullough »
I'm bad at magic, you're bad at magic, and Level 4 Pro Ari Lax is terrible at magic.
It really is just a given when you've got an open trade forum such as this that someone is going to end up stealing. Obviously, there are very many different kinds of people who do so, and some are far less blatant than others, but it's always going to happen. I don't think this is actually really CAUSING me to be more cautious, but it is making me remember why I was cautious in the first place. So it's more of a wake-up call than a legitimate concern, I would say.
I am probably overly trusting of most traders. I will shy away if something seems to good to be true, or if they rub me the wrong way. I like giving new traders chances to prove themselves, and I fortunately have yet to be burned. (This doesn't mean simul-send with a 0 iTrader or anything..)
I have done quite afew high profile trades/sales ($200-300+) without issue. However, I am extremely cautionary when it comes to non-US trades.
This instance of fraud won't make me change any of my trading policies, but it goes to show you should be weary, especially if a trade seems lopsided. Rather than trading large items, I'd rather just sell. However, being on the seller end of a Paypal refund claim is an entirely other story. (If someone files you for fraud.)
Yes, I also filed mail fraud against that user and it didn't go anywhere. Sad...not that I expected the USPS to care about my Sol Ring, but still...
That's okay, my post office knows well enough that if they want to say "Oh, well there is nothing we can do about it" -or- for me to not hear from them about it, that I will call them and whoever else I need to and pester them until they can determine what can be done.
This is true. People are lazy, which is sad, and some of the trades were of such low value that the post office probably won't even look at them.
Same. I expected at least something like "Oh, we received your report about the $60 of theft and will look into it," but I got nothing.
That's a bummer. I hound them until they give me the information that I requested and was even told to go to the local court and file a complaint with them if the USPS fails to follow through.
When I filed my mail fraud report, they stated they would get back to me within 5 days. If they fail to do so, I will call them to see what the deal is. If they fail from there, I will file with the local court against them and the/a ripper.
This is pretty shocking for me. When DJ Rome was new here, I had an enjoyable, problem free transaction with him. We had discussed trades other times, but they never were finalized. The fact that he went on this spree seriously shakes my trust in other traders. Being a Canadian trader, I sometimes get the "Your in canada" excuse for a missing package. i wonder how long it will take for a ripper like this to take advantage of my international status.
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I had a perfectly fine transaction with DJRome one week before he went bad. Personally I feel like I am already strict enough on my rules. I guess I don't run into this a lot because I do very little trades and mostly sales. I also don't trade/sell extended, legacy, nor vintage...so my T2 cards aren't usually in the hundreds of dollars.
While DJRome may have shown us that wolves can hide in sheep's clothing, we also need to remember that one bad apple shouldn't spoil the bunch /cliche
Actually the main point is to rip people for a small enough amount that you aren't worth the postal services time. They aren't going to hunt down someone that stole $20 worth of Magic cards when my neighbor receives a kilo of heroin every 3 days. Seriously, look at the amount that he got from each person and tell me how many of those people will be willing to dedicate the hours of time and miles of tread to get their $15 back?
I agree with Bertie. It's not just number, it's value. There's many people with 60 refs for low value trades, or people like S.M., Bertie, or myself with fewer refs for multi-hundred or multi-thousand dollar deals.
I think, personally, once you find a few good people to deal with, stick with them. Now, I rarely trade with anyone I haven't traded with many times before.
-Matt
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"I'm your Huckleberry." - Doc Holliday
"You're like the nicest person on the forum!" -Maicol
I was ripped twice, but I don't really trade much anymore. 25 and up will probably simusend, since I don't do huge deals with people on the first trade. It's sad when people steal stupid magic cards, yes they're stupid! It's a dumb hobby, and it feels even more dumb when someone like DJRome will rip you. I love the game, but sometimes not the players.
This is pretty shocking for me. When DJ Rome was new here, I had an enjoyable, problem free transaction with him. We had discussed trades other times, but they never were finalized. The fact that he went on this spree seriously shakes my trust in other traders. Being a Canadian trader, I sometimes get the "Your in canada" excuse for a missing package. i wonder how long it will take for a ripper like this to take advantage of my international status.
I don't honestly see how people could take advantage of others though. Maybe I just have morales and ethics, but I don't know. I know that if I did get a BTR against me, I would be trying to make it right and/or at least proving my side (which is often easier when you have proof, such as DC/Insurance/etc...).
I don't trade to Canada because 1) I don't know ultimately how to, and 2) from what I've seen, there is usually quite a delay, in which I am more the "Okay, I'll send mine, it'll get there in X days, and I'll get mine in Y days" not "I'll send mine and it'll be there in X weeks, and I'll get mine in Y weeks."
Quote from Galspanic »
Actually the main point is to rip people for a small enough amount that you aren't worth the postal services time. They aren't going to hunt down someone that stole $20 worth of Magic cards when my neighbor receives a kilo of heroin every 3 days. Seriously, look at the amount that he got from each person and tell me how many of those people will be willing to dedicate the hours of time and miles of tread to get their $15 back?
Not giving up is for motivation posters.
Really? Because my card was only worth $25, you think I should give up? I would have to highly disagree with you on that. It's basically $25 in a different form and when someone steals from me, I will pursue them. I hate being stolen from and I will do everything possible to hunt them down and get it back.
Not giving up is not just for motivational posters. It may be for you, but not for people who actually want rippers to have less likely a chance to do it again to someone else.
If they don't want to pursue a ripper, even if it is for a low trade value, then that's their choice, but it's not going to lessen the chance of it happening to them again. Why? Because there would be no motivation for rippers to stop knowing that people are going to be gullible and not press charges and/or file mail fraud for it.
Really? Because my card was only worth $25, you think I should give up?
Yes really. And yes you should unless you are unemployed and don't have anything going on with your time. My time is worth something and I assume yours is too. Have you ever paid someone to do something? Yes? Then you think that your time is worth something too.
I happen to enjoy hunting people down and getting strangers in trouble when they are dishonest, but it's not because of my own monetary loss - I just like to be an ass. I teach online and I love busting students for cheating so much that once I am done with mine, I have other professors hit me up to look around. And truth be told, I'm not that good at it. But, I do have pictures of every guy that has ripped me here and even one guy's girlfriend's home address. I know their email addresses, home addresses, and what kind of crap they like because of facebook and myspace (ha!). I know when one guy was arrested for a DUI too. I know this stuff because it's fun to know this stuff. Once you ask me if I am willing to devote any more than "lazy ass internet time" to prosecuting them... I'm out.
If you really don't value your time then by all means go nuts trying to get someone prosecuted, but it ain't worth my time. Because of this I don't send first and I sure as hell don't mail to Canadians.
Well, it appears that DJRome is claiming that he just had 'issues going on' and that he is sending everything back to people. What a coincidence when he was logging on every day, with 15+ open BTRs against him, a full PM box, and keeping completely silent. And then on the afternoon after we ban him he magically appears. I think we scared him into sending everything back. A slight victory if anyone sees their cards back.
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I'm bad at magic, you're bad at magic, and Level 4 Pro Ari Lax is terrible at magic.
Glad to see this has exploded to 3 pages in a few hours.
So I'll go out on a limb here and say most of you who got ripped probably deserved it. Not deserved being ripped, I'm sure you're a nice guy, but deserved being taken by a fool because that's just what you were.
I was watching DJRome from the get go. This guy had just awful mannerisms and internet etiquette. He would post ridiculous trade offers or mass offer to people things like "want your X staples, cml". About 4 days before a BTR showed up he sent me a PM for a high end trade (couple hundred IIRC). The trade was fair and the next step would have normally been for me to say "addy; simusend?". I replied back that I was not interested in trading with him. Not the trade but him. I think he knew what that meant and went on his way looking for other suckers to have.
1) You guys need to watch for the flags being raised. Do a little background check before you start negotiating trades. What kind of things do they post? What subforums do they frequent? Are they banned on other sites? Yes, there are traders here who have been forced out of other sites.
Take into account the post count and how meaningful their posts are especially outside of the market street. A swindler will not care about where Caw-Blade is going next and all 9,000 of his posts will be CMLs in the trade forum. I will reiterate, posting the correct answer to a rules question is not always meaningful. Watch for quality and commitment posts not 'killing time till I get off work' posts.
When did they sign up? This is huge. I am very hard-pressed not to initially want to simusend with guys who have been here since 2006 and sooner. You simply don't hang around a forum for 5 years only to scam some guy out of $20 after all of that.
So whatever the appropriate metaphor is for this situation, take this as a lesson for next time or whatever.
I'm sorry you got screwed over. I know, it sucks. It's insurance though, and about 15 of you guys have just paid for their accident. Now we'll all drive a little safer. (haha, there's the stupid metaphor!)
Its sad that these things are becoming a common place. Granted its nice it gets brought to attention quickly BUT the fact it happens is showing the trend that an honor system is no longer respected or even considered by alot of members. Its kinda sad. This almost makes me want to start making a list of people I will even trust now. Granted I havent had many issues with people but the risks others face is getting to be too much. BUT I will say alot of these rips people should of seen coming by the way the deals go.
Yes really. And yes you should unless you are unemployed and don't have anything going on with your time. My time is worth something and I assume yours is too. Have you ever paid someone to do something? Yes? Then you think that your time is worth something too.
It's rather obvious that we have different views of the value of time. I don't care if you rip me for $1, the fact is that you have proven yourself untrustworthy. Even then, for such a small amount, the fact remains that people generally go to larger amounts after a period of time (often times like drugs I guess if you want to put things into perspective). Such in the case of DJRome where for some odd reason he decided to hit everyone at once and got caught.
I happen to enjoy hunting people down and getting strangers in trouble when they are dishonest, but it's not because of my own monetary loss - I just like to be an ass. I teach online and I love busting students for cheating so much that once I am done with mine, I have other professors hit me up to look around. And truth be told, I'm not that good at it. But, I do have pictures of every guy that has ripped me here and even one guy's girlfriend's home address. I know their email addresses, home addresses, and what kind of crap they like because of facebook and myspace (ha!). I know when one guy was arrested for a DUI too. I know this stuff because it's fun to know this stuff. Once you ask me if I am willing to devote any more than "lazy ass internet time" to prosecuting them... I'm out.
So you talk about working and then your time being valuable, yet you can dedicate yourself to 'being an ass' (as you so put it), and knowing email addresses, home addresses, etc just for kicks basically.
If you really don't value your time then by all means go nuts trying to get someone prosecuted, but it ain't worth my time. Because of this I don't send first and I sure as hell don't mail to Canadians.
It's also easy to do this thing called multi-task. You should try it sometime and then consider the 'value of time' perspective you talk about. I don't just sit here and wait as I do have other things going on during that time frame. I'm not going to put everything on hold/drop everything until it gets resolved. I will, however be ready with the information in case it's needed.
No, this fiasco will not make me change any of my practices in trading. I rarely ever ask someone to send first; and when I do, it's for a legitimate reason.
The bottom line is you have NO IDEA who is on the other end of an Internet connection sometimes. Regardless of refs, posts, or anything else for that matter. The most "trustworthy" person on this forum could be what you least expect in real life. Think about it.
Oh, and, for what it's worth to those of you whom believe...Karma does not forget
It's rather obvious that we have different views of the value of time. I don't care if you rip me for $1, the fact is that you have proven yourself untrustworthy. Even then, for such a small amount, the fact remains that people generally go to larger amounts after a period of time (often times like drugs I guess if you want to put things into perspective). Such in the case of DJRome where for some odd reason he decided to hit everyone at once and got caught.
So you talk about working and then your time being valuable, yet you can dedicate yourself to 'being an ass' (as you so put it), and knowing email addresses, home addresses, etc just for kicks basically.
It's also easy to do this thing called multi-task. You should try it sometime and then consider the 'value of time' perspective you talk about. I don't just sit here and wait as I do have other things going on during that time frame. I'm not going to put everything on hold/drop everything until it gets resolved. I will, however be ready with the information in case it's needed.
I get the notion of being wronged and seeking justice, but this isn't the Wild West. The transaction cost of actually getting anything done is huge, but the cost of stalking a ripper is relatively low. This is something that I find to be recreational, but when I have to file paperwork with the postal system it becomes a huge pain in the ass that thus far has done nothing. If I knew that my actions and effort would lead to a conviction then I would do it... I have done it three times without any repercussions or even a follow up call from the post office. What is the point then if I lose my cards and 3 hours of my life knowing that nothing will happen? It's bad enough that punk kid A got $30 worth of cards, but I'm not going to give him 3 hours of my life too. I value my freetime and I value my work time more, so there's a lot of cost-benefit-ratio stuff going on here and in the end it isn't worth it.
Such in the case of DJRome where for some odd reason he decided to hit everyone at once and got caught.
That isn't odd at all. That's how they do it... Build up the refs, go on a ripping spree, and it takes a couple of weeks for the scope of the spree to be made public. I'm not saying DJRome is a ripper since I am neither the judge or the jury (talk to mods about that), but if he is in fact scamming people then he took a very normal route to do so. If you are going to steal why steal small amounts from people over time or steal big from a few people (who will actually have incentive to hunt you down for their hundreds of dollars), when you can get a lot more by nabbing smaller amounts from more people all at once. Remember that it only takes one BTR against you to get banned and 500 get you banned all the same.
It's also easy to do this thing called multi-task. You should try it sometime and then consider the 'value of time' perspective you talk about.
Thanks for the life-coaching. I think I'm doing okay there though.
(Edit: I am actually at work right now, cooking dinner, talking with you guys, and trying to explain to my 4 year old why Scott Pilgrim has to fight guys and why his roommate kisses boys... Multitasking Hazzah!)
No, this fiasco will not make me change any of my practices in trading. I rarely ever ask someone to send first; and when I do, it's for a legitimate reason.
The bottom line is you have NO IDEA who is on the other end of an Internet connection sometimes. Regardless of refs, posts, or anything else for that matter. The most "trustworthy" person on this forum could be what you least expect in real life. Think about it.
Oh, and, for what it's worth to those of you whom believe...Karma does not forget
Josh
This is to me is very interesting becomes it comes from the absolute best trader here. Haven't you been ripped before Josh? I think a read a few BTRs where you simulsent and they never sent you anything. Especially in your position where you could ask anyone (literally) to send first on rating and most wouldn't blink an eye, do you still feel that simulsends are usually cool?
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Yes Vick, I've been ripped 4 times since joining this site. Even when it happened to me I didn't change my practices at all.
Don't get me wrong; I won't just simul-send with anyone. I usually go with my gut-feelings. Recently I simul-sent with a guy from Greece who had 0 refs and it went perfectly. Good people have to start at 0 refs too. You and I both had 0 once upon a time.
I think what m00se said has a lot of depth to it; research is a must when trading/selling online. Not necessarily to the degree of "stalking" as I saw mentioned earlier, but at least enough to not walk blindly into a sling. I have no problem respectfully declining an amazing offer if red-flags are raised with the member making the offer.
Glad to see this has exploded to 3 pages in a few hours.
So I'll go out on a limb here and say most of you who got ripped probably deserved it. Not deserved being ripped, I'm sure you're a nice guy, but deserved being taken by a fool because that's just what you were.
I was watching DJRome from the get go. This guy had just awful mannerisms and internet etiquette. He would post ridiculous trade offers or mass offer to people things like "want your X staples, cml". About 4 days before a BTR showed up he sent me a PM for a high end trade (couple hundred IIRC). The trade was fair and the next step would have normally been for me to say "addy; simusend?". I replied back that I was not interested in trading with him. Not the trade but him. I think he knew what that meant and went on his way looking for other suckers to have.
1) You guys need to watch for the flags being raised. Do a little background check before you start negotiating trades. What kind of things do they post? What subforums do they frequent? Are they banned on other sites? Yes, there are traders here who have been forced out of other sites.
Take into account the post count and how meaningful their posts are especially outside of the market street. A swindler will not care about where Caw-Blade is going next and all 9,000 of his posts will be CMLs in the trade forum. I will reiterate, posting the correct answer to a rules question is not always meaningful. Watch for quality and commitment posts not 'killing time till I get off work' posts.
When did they sign up? This is huge. I am very hard-pressed not to initially want to simusend with guys who have been here since 2006 and sooner. You simply don't hang around a forum for 5 years only to scam some guy out of $20 after all of that.
So whatever the appropriate metaphor is for this situation, take this as a lesson for next time or whatever.
I'm sorry you got screwed over. I know, it sucks. It's insurance though, and about 15 of you guys have just paid for their accident. Now we'll all drive a little safer. (haha, there's the stupid metaphor!)
I feel the same way.
When I first made a trade thread he approached me, and it seemed a little weird.
My first trade confirmed was Digital Ghost, went well, he had family issues, but he eventually got the cards to me with extras to make up for the time.
Djrome and I went back and forth for a while, then when I prposed a fair even trade, he said no and backed out. IMHO he was a bad trader anyway, he was kind of always off key and was sketchy.
I even agreed to his prices and he backed out.
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No, this fiasco will not make me change any of my practices in trading. I rarely ever ask someone to send first; and when I do, it's for a legitimate reason.
The bottom line is you have NO IDEA who is on the other end of an Internet connection sometimes. Regardless of refs, posts, or anything else for that matter. The most "trustworthy" person on this forum could be what you least expect in real life. Think about it.
Oh, and, for what it's worth to those of you whom believe...Karma does not forget
Josh
A little idealistic, maybe. The point is that there are definitely signs that certain people perhaps should not be trusted implicitly. You may believe in good will and karma, but that won't make dishonest people behave.
Glad to see this has exploded to 3 pages in a few hours.
So I'll go out on a limb here and say most of you who got ripped probably deserved it. Not deserved being ripped, I'm sure you're a nice guy, but deserved being taken by a fool because that's just what you were.
I was watching DJRome from the get go. This guy had just awful mannerisms and internet etiquette. He would post ridiculous trade offers or mass offer to people things like "want your X staples, cml". About 4 days before a BTR showed up he sent me a PM for a high end trade (couple hundred IIRC). The trade was fair and the next step would have normally been for me to say "addy; simusend?". I replied back that I was not interested in trading with him. Not the trade but him. I think he knew what that meant and went on his way looking for other suckers to have.
1) You guys need to watch for the flags being raised. Do a little background check before you start negotiating trades. What kind of things do they post? What subforums do they frequent? Are they banned on other sites? Yes, there are traders here who have been forced out of other sites.
Take into account the post count and how meaningful their posts are especially outside of the market street. A swindler will not care about where Caw-Blade is going next and all 9,000 of his posts will be CMLs in the trade forum. I will reiterate, posting the correct answer to a rules question is not always meaningful. Watch for quality and commitment posts not 'killing time till I get off work' posts.
When did they sign up? This is huge. I am very hard-pressed not to initially want to simusend with guys who have been here since 2006 and sooner. You simply don't hang around a forum for 5 years only to scam some guy out of $20 after all of that.
So whatever the appropriate metaphor is for this situation, take this as a lesson for next time or whatever.
I'm sorry you got screwed over. I know, it sucks. It's insurance though, and about 15 of you guys have just paid for their accident. Now we'll all drive a little safer. (haha, there's the stupid metaphor!)
I thought I summed all of that up in my post, but thanks for expounding.
And I'm a trader here who has been forced out of another site.
It all boils down to a mans reputation, I sent first one time to Nino in the beginning. Since that day I have never sent first seeing my deals are normally into the high dollar figure and I have a shoppe now, but like I said it comes down to the reputation. I'm known for delivering the best results regardless of the products I'm shipping, with a solid reputation clients come back...and back...and back with no worries and business stays firm.
My advise is deal only with the best, and you won't ever stumble into a pile of trash like DJrome....regardsless of his past positive transactions..the moron still stole from a costumers (HE STOLE never the less), and the're no excuses for ethics like that.
Well, you can't dump on all Canadians just for a few rippers, otherwise the States would be way ahead.
-Matt
Well obviously the lack of tracking is a huge liability, making it that much easier to get away with it. Not that there is generally any recourse for stateside rippees, but at least you can personally guarantee delivery.
It all boils down to a mans reputation, I sent first one time to Nino in the beginning. Since that day I have never sent first seeing my deals are normally into the high dollar figure and I have a shoppe now, but like I said it comes down to the reputation. I'm known for delivering the best results regardless of the products I'm shipping, with a solid reputation clients come back...and back...and back with no worries and business stays firm.
My advise is deal only with the best, and you won't ever stumble into a pile of trash like DJrome....regardsless of his past positive transactions..the moron still stole from a costumers (HE STOLE never the less), and the're no excuses for ethics like that.
Solid thread,
S.M.
Yeah, solid thread, and your post unfortunately contributed nothing to it. You can say whatever you want in response to this, but that was a pretty pathetic attempt at a brag.
I did a lot of sending first working my way to the 100+ brotherhood. It never really bothered me that much. I always looked at it as a respect thing. I was trading with "my betters" early on to establish myself. Occasionally it does irk me just a little when someone who's super new asks to simul with me. It really just doesn't take that long to swap cards in the mail. I've been using half of my ref's as the threshold for a while now. But if Vik or Galspanic asked me to send first I wouldn't even hesitate. Absolute respect for everyone above me and all of you up and comers who are gonna pass me too.
Though, this guy is nothing compared to NiceGuy101. He was my first ever online trade and he took me for $120 back then (value has since skyrocketed, lol at $30 Underground Seas). I was one of the few (5 or so out of 50) that sent with Registered Mail to Canada. A lot good it did me. I filed mail fraud but nothing happened. He was smart though. He used four-five fake names, sent to a random address in Canada, and got about 30 references before his spree. He actually planned it.
I'm glad I've built up so many references that I will likely never get caught like that again, but there really is nothing that we (moderators) can do to prevent things like this. Just gotta hope people are more away and less stupid, to put it blunt.
And I want to just remind everyone that the moment this thread turns into a 'rally to get DJRome' I will lock it and start infracting. Thanks.
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I have done quite afew high profile trades/sales ($200-300+) without issue. However, I am extremely cautionary when it comes to non-US trades.
This instance of fraud won't make me change any of my trading policies, but it goes to show you should be weary, especially if a trade seems lopsided. Rather than trading large items, I'd rather just sell. However, being on the seller end of a Paypal refund claim is an entirely other story. (If someone files you for fraud.)
My current trade thread.
That's okay, my post office knows well enough that if they want to say "Oh, well there is nothing we can do about it" -or- for me to not hear from them about it, that I will call them and whoever else I need to and pester them until they can determine what can be done.
That's a bummer. I hound them until they give me the information that I requested and was even told to go to the local court and file a complaint with them if the USPS fails to follow through.
When I filed my mail fraud report, they stated they would get back to me within 5 days. If they fail to do so, I will call them to see what the deal is. If they fail from there, I will file with the local court against them and the/a ripper.
The main point is to not give up.
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While DJRome may have shown us that wolves can hide in sheep's clothing, we also need to remember that one bad apple shouldn't spoil the bunch /cliche
Actually the main point is to rip people for a small enough amount that you aren't worth the postal services time. They aren't going to hunt down someone that stole $20 worth of Magic cards when my neighbor receives a kilo of heroin every 3 days. Seriously, look at the amount that he got from each person and tell me how many of those people will be willing to dedicate the hours of time and miles of tread to get their $15 back?
Not giving up is for motivation posters.
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I think, personally, once you find a few good people to deal with, stick with them. Now, I rarely trade with anyone I haven't traded with many times before.
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I don't honestly see how people could take advantage of others though. Maybe I just have morales and ethics, but I don't know. I know that if I did get a BTR against me, I would be trying to make it right and/or at least proving my side (which is often easier when you have proof, such as DC/Insurance/etc...).
I don't trade to Canada because 1) I don't know ultimately how to, and 2) from what I've seen, there is usually quite a delay, in which I am more the "Okay, I'll send mine, it'll get there in X days, and I'll get mine in Y days" not "I'll send mine and it'll be there in X weeks, and I'll get mine in Y weeks."
Really? Because my card was only worth $25, you think I should give up? I would have to highly disagree with you on that. It's basically $25 in a different form and when someone steals from me, I will pursue them. I hate being stolen from and I will do everything possible to hunt them down and get it back.
Not giving up is not just for motivational posters. It may be for you, but not for people who actually want rippers to have less likely a chance to do it again to someone else.
If they don't want to pursue a ripper, even if it is for a low trade value, then that's their choice, but it's not going to lessen the chance of it happening to them again. Why? Because there would be no motivation for rippers to stop knowing that people are going to be gullible and not press charges and/or file mail fraud for it.
Yes really. And yes you should unless you are unemployed and don't have anything going on with your time. My time is worth something and I assume yours is too. Have you ever paid someone to do something? Yes? Then you think that your time is worth something too.
I happen to enjoy hunting people down and getting strangers in trouble when they are dishonest, but it's not because of my own monetary loss - I just like to be an ass. I teach online and I love busting students for cheating so much that once I am done with mine, I have other professors hit me up to look around. And truth be told, I'm not that good at it. But, I do have pictures of every guy that has ripped me here and even one guy's girlfriend's home address. I know their email addresses, home addresses, and what kind of crap they like because of facebook and myspace (ha!). I know when one guy was arrested for a DUI too. I know this stuff because it's fun to know this stuff. Once you ask me if I am willing to devote any more than "lazy ass internet time" to prosecuting them... I'm out.
If you really don't value your time then by all means go nuts trying to get someone prosecuted, but it ain't worth my time. Because of this I don't send first and I sure as hell don't mail to Canadians.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
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So I'll go out on a limb here and say most of you who got ripped probably deserved it. Not deserved being ripped, I'm sure you're a nice guy, but deserved being taken by a fool because that's just what you were.
I was watching DJRome from the get go. This guy had just awful mannerisms and internet etiquette. He would post ridiculous trade offers or mass offer to people things like "want your X staples, cml". About 4 days before a BTR showed up he sent me a PM for a high end trade (couple hundred IIRC). The trade was fair and the next step would have normally been for me to say "addy; simusend?". I replied back that I was not interested in trading with him. Not the trade but him. I think he knew what that meant and went on his way looking for other suckers to have.
1) You guys need to watch for the flags being raised. Do a little background check before you start negotiating trades. What kind of things do they post? What subforums do they frequent? Are they banned on other sites? Yes, there are traders here who have been forced out of other sites.
Take into account the post count and how meaningful their posts are especially outside of the market street. A swindler will not care about where Caw-Blade is going next and all 9,000 of his posts will be CMLs in the trade forum. I will reiterate, posting the correct answer to a rules question is not always meaningful. Watch for quality and commitment posts not 'killing time till I get off work' posts.
When did they sign up? This is huge. I am very hard-pressed not to initially want to simusend with guys who have been here since 2006 and sooner. You simply don't hang around a forum for 5 years only to scam some guy out of $20 after all of that.
So whatever the appropriate metaphor is for this situation, take this as a lesson for next time or whatever.
I'm sorry you got screwed over. I know, it sucks. It's insurance though, and about 15 of you guys have just paid for their accident. Now we'll all drive a little safer. (haha, there's the stupid metaphor!)
It's rather obvious that we have different views of the value of time. I don't care if you rip me for $1, the fact is that you have proven yourself untrustworthy. Even then, for such a small amount, the fact remains that people generally go to larger amounts after a period of time (often times like drugs I guess if you want to put things into perspective). Such in the case of DJRome where for some odd reason he decided to hit everyone at once and got caught.
So you talk about working and then your time being valuable, yet you can dedicate yourself to 'being an ass' (as you so put it), and knowing email addresses, home addresses, etc just for kicks basically.
It's also easy to do this thing called multi-task. You should try it sometime and then consider the 'value of time' perspective you talk about. I don't just sit here and wait as I do have other things going on during that time frame. I'm not going to put everything on hold/drop everything until it gets resolved. I will, however be ready with the information in case it's needed.
No, this fiasco will not make me change any of my practices in trading. I rarely ever ask someone to send first; and when I do, it's for a legitimate reason.
The bottom line is you have NO IDEA who is on the other end of an Internet connection sometimes. Regardless of refs, posts, or anything else for that matter. The most "trustworthy" person on this forum could be what you least expect in real life. Think about it.
Oh, and, for what it's worth to those of you whom believe...Karma does not forget
Josh
I get the notion of being wronged and seeking justice, but this isn't the Wild West. The transaction cost of actually getting anything done is huge, but the cost of stalking a ripper is relatively low. This is something that I find to be recreational, but when I have to file paperwork with the postal system it becomes a huge pain in the ass that thus far has done nothing. If I knew that my actions and effort would lead to a conviction then I would do it... I have done it three times without any repercussions or even a follow up call from the post office. What is the point then if I lose my cards and 3 hours of my life knowing that nothing will happen? It's bad enough that punk kid A got $30 worth of cards, but I'm not going to give him 3 hours of my life too. I value my freetime and I value my work time more, so there's a lot of cost-benefit-ratio stuff going on here and in the end it isn't worth it.
That isn't odd at all. That's how they do it... Build up the refs, go on a ripping spree, and it takes a couple of weeks for the scope of the spree to be made public. I'm not saying DJRome is a ripper since I am neither the judge or the jury (talk to mods about that), but if he is in fact scamming people then he took a very normal route to do so. If you are going to steal why steal small amounts from people over time or steal big from a few people (who will actually have incentive to hunt you down for their hundreds of dollars), when you can get a lot more by nabbing smaller amounts from more people all at once. Remember that it only takes one BTR against you to get banned and 500 get you banned all the same.
Thanks for the life-coaching. I think I'm doing okay there though.
(Edit: I am actually at work right now, cooking dinner, talking with you guys, and trying to explain to my 4 year old why Scott Pilgrim has to fight guys and why his roommate kisses boys... Multitasking Hazzah!)
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
This is to me is very interesting becomes it comes from the absolute best trader here. Haven't you been ripped before Josh? I think a read a few BTRs where you simulsent and they never sent you anything. Especially in your position where you could ask anyone (literally) to send first on rating and most wouldn't blink an eye, do you still feel that simulsends are usually cool?
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Don't get me wrong; I won't just simul-send with anyone. I usually go with my gut-feelings. Recently I simul-sent with a guy from Greece who had 0 refs and it went perfectly. Good people have to start at 0 refs too. You and I both had 0 once upon a time.
I think what m00se said has a lot of depth to it; research is a must when trading/selling online. Not necessarily to the degree of "stalking" as I saw mentioned earlier, but at least enough to not walk blindly into a sling. I have no problem respectfully declining an amazing offer if red-flags are raised with the member making the offer.
Josh
I feel the same way.
When I first made a trade thread he approached me, and it seemed a little weird.
My first trade confirmed was Digital Ghost, went well, he had family issues, but he eventually got the cards to me with extras to make up for the time.
Djrome and I went back and forth for a while, then when I prposed a fair even trade, he said no and backed out. IMHO he was a bad trader anyway, he was kind of always off key and was sketchy.
I even agreed to his prices and he backed out.
scumbag
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A little idealistic, maybe. The point is that there are definitely signs that certain people perhaps should not be trusted implicitly. You may believe in good will and karma, but that won't make dishonest people behave.
I thought I summed all of that up in my post, but thanks for expounding.
And I'm a trader here who has been forced out of another site.
-Matt
Legacy:
Thanks to SGT Chubbs for the sig
My advise is deal only with the best, and you won't ever stumble into a pile of trash like DJrome....regardsless of his past positive transactions..the moron still stole from a costumers (HE STOLE never the less), and the're no excuses for ethics like that.
Solid thread,
S.M.
Well obviously the lack of tracking is a huge liability, making it that much easier to get away with it. Not that there is generally any recourse for stateside rippees, but at least you can personally guarantee delivery.
Yeah, solid thread, and your post unfortunately contributed nothing to it. You can say whatever you want in response to this, but that was a pretty pathetic attempt at a brag.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=489747