I was checking on tcgplayer today, looking at pre-sale prices for the new phyrexia cards, and saw several shops placing phyrexian obliterator at $20 each. I had expected them to be double that price, but when I told friends about it they all told me to not buy them as the prices would not be honored.
Apparently since JTMS, the SOP for stores has been to have cheap prices for presage cards, but once they get all the orders they merely claim "they didn't get enough product" and refuse to fill the remaining orders (if any did get filled at all) and then when they magically do get the card "in stock" they demand additional payment to compensate for the new elevated price.
DISCLAIMER: I do not maintain that any store uses this practice. This is hearsay from people who claim to have been affected by this practice, and if it is used I do not which (if any) stores do so.
That being said, has anyone heard of stores doing this? Is it safe to pre-order the negators? (regardless of your thoughts on the price tag) And if a store does this, do I have any recourse other than paying the additional money to get the cards?
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Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Only shady stores do this, and it's unlikely to happen before the cards actually are released unless some secret new tech is revealed involving the card (Contested War Zone didn't explode till the first week of its release, for example, when everyone started playing KRed).
However, I would definitely NOT preorder Phyrexian Obliterator at $20. It's really not a very good card, and I (as well as many others) expect it to fall very hard, very fast. There are a few threads in the Rumor Mill which explain why, but it boils down to the fact that it:
-requires too heavy of a black commitment
-is a better blocker than attacker
-doesn't make mono-black any better than it is now
It's highly priced because it's big, has a powerful ability, is a throw-back to the Negator, and is mythic. But that doesn't make it good. I would not worry about it spiking anytime soon.
While this isn't the place to get into an argument, I feel obligated to rebut your points.
-- too heavy mana commitment. This is patently wrong, as the decks that will run it won't have any issues casting it. RB and UB could both run with mana bases where every land makes black mana, mono black obviously won't have issues casting it, and spawning shell toolbox (my sleeper rare of the set) doesnt care about quad black, every creature just costs 1G.
--better blocker than attacker. I dont know how you come up with this. If you are blocking with negator you are losing, plain and simple. The sac ability isn't there to let him wall, it's there to protect it from burn spells and the like. Trample is just gravy here. It's still a 5/5 that NOBODY wants to block. Not even pro-black dudes.
--doesn't help mono black. This might be the only one that comes close to making sense. Grave Titan does do a good job of acting as a finisher. I won't deny it's a good card. But I Doubt it will be reprinted, and obliterator will easily fill its place. Plus, by lowering out curve, we can run something like dark tutelage to solve MBC's real problem: difficulty getting CA. Currently the deck relies on crystal ball so that even if we can't draw all the cards, we get the one we need every turn. With our curve ending at 4 we can afford to run tutelage, and THAT is the card we need to get to tier1.
That should hopefully be the end of this debate.
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Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
I would like to agree and also disagree with you on this matter. I've hard the same thing also, why more people do not voice their disappointments is a wonder to me, why people continue to patron such bad practices also amaze me. Personally any store capable of doing that probably won't be around for too much longer. However, there are stores out there that I've shopped with who provide excellent service and upheld their pre-order prices.
I've spoken to TCGPlayer about this matter in the past and they have assured me that they are working on everything they can to stop stores from using these unforgivable deeds. It only makes the other stores and TCGPlayer in the end look really bad in the public's eyes.
Now I know for a fact the store that I work @ would never do such thing. I've seen them do some pretty crazy stuff here just to fill a customer's order in the past; ie: breaking a box just to get a few mythic, rares, or even commons. It's a shame that all stores didn't have "customers' satisfaction first!" mentality
I was checking on tcgplayer today, looking at pre-sale prices for the new phyrexia cards, and saw several shops placing phyrexian obliterator at $20 each. I had expected them to be double that price, but when I told friends about it they all told me to not buy them as the prices would not be honored.
Apparently since JTMS, the SOP for stores has been to have cheap prices for presage cards, but once they get all the orders they merely claim "they didn't get enough product" and refuse to fill the remaining orders (if any did get filled at all) and then when they magically do get the card "in stock" they demand additional payment to compensate for the new elevated price.
DISCLAIMER: I do not maintain that any store uses this practice. This is hearsay from people who claim to have been affected by this practice, and if it is used I do not which (if any) stores do so.
That being said, has anyone heard of stores doing this? Is it safe to pre-order the negators? (regardless of your thoughts on the price tag) And if a store does this, do I have any recourse other than paying the additional money to get the cards?
There are a ton of threads in Market Street about stores that didn't honor prices they set. If you want to pre-order either 1) get it from someone you trust, or 2) I actually suggest eBay. At least there the price is locked in. The worst they can do is cancel you (while you ding thier ratings).
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
Its a 4 mana 5/5 with an ability worse than being strait unblockable. It is okay but it is not 20+ amazing.
Until mono-black runs rampant - it's only missing a few pieces and Obliterator fills one. Also many things hinting that Innistrad is going to have a ton of neat black toys.
Yes, stick with eBay presale prices - there's disincentives for sellers to "scam".
It's an instant speed 5/5 trampler for 4. Wtf do you people want seriously? It has applications in populate/ above the curve beats decks, or in Bant control/ flash. I seriously think anyone mad at this card for any reason other than losing an attacker to instant speed wurm, should go home and make their own awesome card game and leave the rest of us alone.
Not really. Mono black is missing a great finisher? Abyssal Persecutor and Grave Titan say hi. Not right now, at least, but Innistrad will have to let us see.
The card has power on it's side, if nothing else. The mythic rarity doesnt help either. People are going to want the card to try and make it tourney worthy, but casual players are going to want the card to smash face.
Also, obviously, this comes out two turns ahead of grave titan and dishes out 10 before he gets going. (and most likely stops your opponent's thoughts of attacking for a turn)
Edit: also, I'd like to say ebay IS the way to go and if you get screwed you can get an easy enough refund and blast the seller with negative feedback. A bunch of negatives in a small time period of pre-orders would really look bad, if people actually bother to leave them. (and they should)
Its a 4 mana 5/5 with an ability worse than being strait unblockable. It is okay but it is not 20+ amazing.
Worse?
It requires a huge commitment of resources if you choose to block versus just taking 5 damage.
I'll take the card that forces people to think about what they do versus the card that doesn't everyday. Most good players would do the same as every play mistake that comes out of thinking counts.
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And then I'll brush, and brush
And brush, and brush my hair
Stuck in the same place I've always been
Assuming you are just going straight offense with the negator, yes his ability is worse than being unblockable. Giving your opponent options with perfect information is a bad thing, not a good thing. This is why Browbeat is bad, for instance. It's also why Infiltration Lens is far worse than an equipment which just makes the creature unblockable.
If you're playing against players bad enough that they block the negator when it isn't a good idea to do so, then you should be winning anyways.
Of course negator does have some advantages over a 5/5 unblockable creature, but these are mainly on defense and against burn (which has a pretty hard time dealing with a 5/5 anyways). On offense, being unblockable would be strictly better.
Apparently since JTMS, the SOP for stores has been to have cheap prices for presage cards, but once they get all the orders they merely claim "they didn't get enough product" and refuse to fill the remaining orders (if any did get filled at all) and then when they magically do get the card "in stock" they demand additional payment to compensate for the new elevated price.
DISCLAIMER: I do not maintain that any store uses this practice. This is hearsay from people who claim to have been affected by this practice, and if it is used I do not which (if any) stores do so.
That being said, has anyone heard of stores doing this? Is it safe to pre-order the negators? (regardless of your thoughts on the price tag) And if a store does this, do I have any recourse other than paying the additional money to get the cards?
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
However, I would definitely NOT preorder Phyrexian Obliterator at $20. It's really not a very good card, and I (as well as many others) expect it to fall very hard, very fast. There are a few threads in the Rumor Mill which explain why, but it boils down to the fact that it:
-requires too heavy of a black commitment
-is a better blocker than attacker
-doesn't make mono-black any better than it is now
It's highly priced because it's big, has a powerful ability, is a throw-back to the Negator, and is mythic. But that doesn't make it good. I would not worry about it spiking anytime soon.
Lands WUBG
EDH:
Doran WBG
-- too heavy mana commitment. This is patently wrong, as the decks that will run it won't have any issues casting it. RB and UB could both run with mana bases where every land makes black mana, mono black obviously won't have issues casting it, and spawning shell toolbox (my sleeper rare of the set) doesnt care about quad black, every creature just costs 1G.
--better blocker than attacker. I dont know how you come up with this. If you are blocking with negator you are losing, plain and simple. The sac ability isn't there to let him wall, it's there to protect it from burn spells and the like. Trample is just gravy here. It's still a 5/5 that NOBODY wants to block. Not even pro-black dudes.
--doesn't help mono black. This might be the only one that comes close to making sense. Grave Titan does do a good job of acting as a finisher. I won't deny it's a good card. But I Doubt it will be reprinted, and obliterator will easily fill its place. Plus, by lowering out curve, we can run something like dark tutelage to solve MBC's real problem: difficulty getting CA. Currently the deck relies on crystal ball so that even if we can't draw all the cards, we get the one we need every turn. With our curve ending at 4 we can afford to run tutelage, and THAT is the card we need to get to tier1.
That should hopefully be the end of this debate.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
I've spoken to TCGPlayer about this matter in the past and they have assured me that they are working on everything they can to stop stores from using these unforgivable deeds. It only makes the other stores and TCGPlayer in the end look really bad in the public's eyes.
Now I know for a fact the store that I work @ would never do such thing. I've seen them do some pretty crazy stuff here just to fill a customer's order in the past; ie: breaking a box just to get a few mythic, rares, or even commons. It's a shame that all stores didn't have "customers' satisfaction first!" mentality
Until mono-black runs rampant - it's only missing a few pieces and Obliterator fills one. Also many things hinting that Innistrad is going to have a ton of neat black toys.
Yes, stick with eBay presale prices - there's disincentives for sellers to "scam".
Lands WUBG
EDH:
Doran WBG
Also, obviously, this comes out two turns ahead of grave titan and dishes out 10 before he gets going. (and most likely stops your opponent's thoughts of attacking for a turn)
Edit: also, I'd like to say ebay IS the way to go and if you get screwed you can get an easy enough refund and blast the seller with negative feedback. A bunch of negatives in a small time period of pre-orders would really look bad, if people actually bother to leave them. (and they should)
Worse?
It requires a huge commitment of resources if you choose to block versus just taking 5 damage.
I'll take the card that forces people to think about what they do versus the card that doesn't everyday. Most good players would do the same as every play mistake that comes out of thinking counts.
And brush, and brush my hair
Stuck in the same place I've always been
If you're playing against players bad enough that they block the negator when it isn't a good idea to do so, then you should be winning anyways.
Of course negator does have some advantages over a 5/5 unblockable creature, but these are mainly on defense and against burn (which has a pretty hard time dealing with a 5/5 anyways). On offense, being unblockable would be strictly better.
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