Wizards can't realistically reprint fetches in Theros, so it's likely that they're going to spike up to $70-80 by Modern season.
They might decide to reprint fetches in MM 2, though.
However, many staples didn't drop a lot after MM. The big mythics actually went up in price and it's unlikely WOTC is going to do another reprint of them anytime soon.
It doesn't seem like WOTC's goal is to make Modern more affordable by lowering prices. It seems more like WOTC is trying to give players the "chance" to get older Modern cards- chance is the great equalizer, after all.
Do you guys think it's possible that Modern prices will spiral out of control and WOTC will convince themselves that it's okay by essentially giving players lottery tickets to obtain staples?
"Oh, you need 4 Fetchlands? Here, open packs and if you got SUPER SWAG, you might get them!"
Aaron Forsythe repeatedly stressed that MM was an experimental set. The set was definitely popular, so I'd say it was a success on at least one front. However, we currently don't know how WotC views the results. (Or at least, I haven't seen any official word stating whether it met their goals or not.)
I'm certain we will see MM2, but will they print more next time? Less? Will the set size be larger or smaller? How will rarities be adjusted? Which sets will be covered? Will Tarmogoyf and Dark Confidant be reprinted yet again?
We just don't know for sure. My guess is that MM2 will feature fetch lands at rare.
If WotC really wanted to solve this problem they would create a box set that could be bought at the big box stores that had 1 of each fetch land along with 10 snow-covered lands. A 60-card box they could easily sell for a reasonable MSRP. To make it interesting, they could have new art for the cards.
Of course, putting them in MMA2 would guarantee a crazy amount of hype for the set and it would sell out possibly even faster than MMA did. This might bring in more $$ in the long run. Legacy Masters is also not out of the question, though I expect it is less likely.
WotC has shown every indication that they are working to make Modern cards much more widely available. Mass reprinting shocklands was the first step, then MMA, etc....
They work on a very long timetable(2-3 years in design and another 2-3 years past that in planning). We're less than a year into their ~5 year plan for Modern. Give them some time and have a little faith.
they are "widely available." just not widely affordable. whereas before, there were only a handful of a certain card available for purchase, now there are many, just at a higher price than before.
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I speak in sarcasm because calling people ******* ******** is not allowed.
True, cards will always be available because people are willing to sell them. I believe fetchlands will be printed soon and bring down the price. The company must work with contemporary times and with all the new players needing dual lands, it only seems fair to make it affordable. Wizards themselves have to make the difficult decisions and make sacrifices to the secondary market. It's up to the players to forswear the possibilities. If you unvested all your cards and reinvested in shocks and didn't anticipate a reprint that was your mistake. That's what the reserved list is for. And with players dominating the interest in magic, prices still hold their values but investors must make the right choices regarding reprints and not be upset because an investor shouldn't care about the item but it's value. We know power 9 will never be reprinted so it's a fair system.
I completely agree Modern card prices are out of control. when cards go from being rares to $10 to $30 staples. (looking at you fulminator mage... why does it cost as much as a sink hole?)
I don't think Wizards goal was ever to make a more affordable format. They want a non-rotating format they could print cards for.
Does anyone know how far in advance WOTC actually finalizes what cards will be in a set? For example, if it were two years in advance, they wouldn't have had a problem putting it in Huey for price reasons because they were only 10-15. As a side note, I hate that they're less likely to put it in a regular set for price reasons.
I completely agree Modern card prices are out of control. when cards go from being rares to $10 to $30 staples. (looking at you fulminator mage... why does it cost as much as a sink hole?)
I don't think Wizards goal was ever to make a more affordable format. They want a non-rotating format they could print cards for.
the problem is, that many popular modern sets were printed in the time directly after kamigawa, where the playerbase had a big breakdown. which means that a lot less packs and boxes were sold of the sets with all this expensive cards.
that means that now there are much more players who want the cards much less people opened back then.
that means if wotc does not want, that modern gets the new legacy, they MUST reprint at least fetches soon, in a big set. and not in mm2, because that wont change the price by any means.. so we need a reprint in a standard set, so the price can drop to at least 10$ a piece...
Wizards' "goal" with Modern Masters was to make the format more affordable. While MM brought down the prices on some fringe cards, all the big format staples were mostly unaffected (I would expect that it might affect their future trajectory to some degree, i.e. the increased supply will mean they won't rise in price as quickly as they otherwise would have done). If we assume that Wizards is still interested in promoting Modern as an accessible eternal format and making it affordable - safe assumptions - then it is only logical to not only expect a MM2 but also also that the print run of MM2 will be larger.
I think it's also worth noting that Wizards will remain cautious. They were cautious with the print run of MM, because in Wizards' eyes the price of Tarmogoyf being $10 or $20 or $30 higher (i.e. underprinting) is infinitely preferable to crashing the market (i.e. overprinting).
True, cards will always be available because people are willing to sell them. I believe fetchlands will be printed soon and bring down the price. The company must work with contemporary times and with all the new players needing dual lands, it only seems fair to make it affordable. Wizards themselves have to make the difficult decisions and make sacrifices to the secondary market. It's up to the players to forswear the possibilities. If you unvested all your cards and reinvested in shocks and didn't anticipate a reprint that was your mistake. That's what the reserved list is for. And with players dominating the interest in magic, prices still hold their values but investors must make the right choices regarding reprints and not be upset because an investor shouldn't care about the item but it's value. We know power 9 will never be reprinted so it's a fair system.
Why do they have to worry about what is fair? And how is it not fair that you could go on to eBay right now and buy playsets of all the Modern legal fetches? And why should the system be fair to the people unwilling or unable to spend money on the hobby, but not to the people who are willing to spend money on the hobby? Wouldn't it make sense that the people who spend more money on the hobby care more about the hobby, yet you feel that Wizards should be unfair to them?
Does anyone know how far in advance WOTC actually finalizes what cards will be in a set? For example, if it were two years in advance, they wouldn't have had a problem putting it in Huey for price reasons because they were only 10-15. As a side note, I hate that they're less likely to put it in a regular set for price reasons.
I think one of the Devs said that when FTV20 was spoiled, the next FTV was already either done or very close to finalized. That's for a supplemental product, not sure on normal expansions.
Mark Rosewater may have already answered this on his tumblr, it has to be a pretty common question.
Wizards can't realistically reprint fetches in Theros, so it's likely that they're going to spike up to $70-80 by Modern season.
There's ansolutely no reason why fetches can't be reprinted in Theros, although I would agree that M15 or Huey is more likely. I think Modern can survive another year.
They might decide to reprint fetches in MM 2, though.
They might, but they want to reprint Onslaught fetches as well, so unless they decide to start to introduce new cards into Modern via MM, it's far more likely fetches will be reprinted via Standard.
However, many staples didn't drop a lot after MM. The big mythics actually went up in price and it's unlikely WOTC is going to do another reprint of them anytime soon.
This is false. Virtually all staples dropped a lot after MM. Only three mythics went up slightly, but even the mythic dragons went down in price. A few cards are worth more in MM because of increased rarity (Auriok Salvagers) or have gone up due to new decks (Echoing Truth), but overall your statement is wrong. If you want to cite a staple other than Goyf, Bob, or Clique, please cite a specific card.
Edit: I just realized you were probably referring to Modern staples not in MM. Well, sure, but you can't reprint all staples in one MM set; there are too many cards, and MM was designed to be draftable. That made the set more propular but did limit its impact. But it was certainly successful in reducing the prices of most of the cards that WERE reprinted, and MM2 can take care of many of the cards you're concerned about. Remember, Aether Vial was $20!
In any case, fetchlands would almost certainly be reprinted at rare, so they will definitely drop in price when reprinted.
It doesn't seem like WOTC's goal is to make Modern more affordable by lowering prices. It seems more like WOTC is trying to give players the "chance" to get older Modern cards- chance is the great equalizer, after all.
I don't know why you think this, but it's not true. Remember that MM1 was still an experiment to see if it would be well-received and if it would lower prices. It succeeded on both fronts. The biggest constraint was that it was not printed enough, and MM2 can certainly have a larger print run to address that.
Do you guys think it's possible that Modern prices will spiral out of control and WOTC will convince themselves that it's okay by essentially giving players lottery tickets to obtain staples?
100% impossible. You just have to realize that WotC is a large company that plans months and years ahead; it has a difficult time reacting quickly to short-term events like the sudden surge in Modern prices we've seen in the past couple of years. Just hang on for another year or two and you'll get your fetches.
Why do they have to worry about what is fair? And how is it not fair that you could go on to eBay right now and buy playsets of all the Modern legal fetches? And why should the system be fair to the people unwilling or unable to spend money on the hobby, but not to the people who are willing to spend money on the hobby? Wouldn't it make sense that the people who spend more money on the hobby care more about the hobby, yet you feel that Wizards should be unfair to them?
u realise that wizards has nothing from people who spend 50$ to buy a single fetchland.
they get money if more people play magic/modern.
but because currently you need to spend several hundred dollars just for the modern base of most modern decks, that really keeps people out of modern.
stop being an elitist jerk and realise that more players = good for the game.
They never want to have shocklands and fetchlands be in the standard environment. Wizards already stated they don't want to make mana-fixing too good which is one reason why M14 had no checklands.
u realise that wizards has nothing from people who spend 50$ to buy a single fetchland.
they get money if more people play magic/modern.
but because currently you need to spend several hundred dollars just for the modern base of most modern decks, that really keeps people out of modern.
stop being an elitist jerk and realise that more players = good for the game.
Yes, Wizards doesn't explicitly get anything extra from people who spend $50 on a Fetchland. But if they bought that Fetchland from me, that money would go right back into sealed product because I like cracking packs. So, they sold 12 more packs at Target, or a fatpack, or half a box from me being able to sell my card. Where do they get the money from people playing Modern? From people buying standard packs hoping for Modern staples?
Yes, in order to build a two or three colored deck you do currently have to spend a couple hundred dollars to have it be stable. But in Magic there are plenty of alternatives that you could build. Or go Mono colored. And one of MaRo's favorite things to say is that restrictions breed creativity. If everyone has access to the "best," where will the creativity be?
Now, if you think I'm elitist, I'm sorry. I don't view myself as elitist, I don't have all the cards I want to play all the decks I want, but I also don't see the "system" as being "unfair". I just try to trade to cards that fit in the deck I want to build, save my change and buy cards when possible, and keep bulk since modern bulk seems to have a bit of opportunity value. But if you want, keep making ad hominem attacks and hoping that all of the cards you want will decrease in value.
Regardless of what Wizards said publicly, MM was going to be a way to make Modern more accessible on MTGO. Wizards cant really monetize an eternal format on paper.
I do think all 10 fetches inevitably get reprinted, but they need a reason (either flavor or a mechanic like Landfall) to do it. Also note that reprinting the ONS fetches would help drive down the price of ZEN fetches, since fetching a land type is the same no matter how you do it.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
They never want to have shocklands and fetchlands be in the standard environment.
[citation needed]
This is speculation, nothing more. Standard survived Pain Lands and Shock Lands at the same time; I think I can survive Shock Lands and Fetch Lands at the same time.
u realise that wizards has nothing from people who spend 50$ to buy a single fetchland.
they get money if more people play magic/modern.
but because currently you need to spend several hundred dollars just for the modern base of most modern decks, that really keeps people out of modern.
The secondary market benefits Wizards in a lot of ways. If you spend $50 on a card, that money goes towards things like paying for store rent, restocking of Magic products, and buying more singles off of other players.
No matter what you do, it sucks to have to spend money. But if we didn't spend money, we wouldn't have stores, or tournaments, or a massive development team making Magic as good as it is now.
stop being an elitist jerk and realise that more players = good for the game.
That's not nice. And more players wouldn't mean anything if they didn't pay for the game.
This is speculation, nothing more. Standard survived Pain Lands and Shock Lands at the same time; I think I can survive Shock Lands and Fetch Lands at the same time.
I wouldn't say "never," but Sam Stoddard wrote an article saying the Theros duals wouldn't work as well with the shock lands as the buddy lands do. Thus, no fetches.
Since landfall is a easily reprintable in a core set as the returning mechanic, and they moved modern ptq season back until after m15 comes out. Although shocks and fetches would be in standard together for 3 months, it wouldn't be too bad.
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"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not." - John Lennon
I wouldn't say "never," but Sam Stoddard wrote an article saying the Theros duals wouldn't work as well with the shock lands as the buddy lands do. Thus, no fetches.
He never said that. Instead, he says that standard already had 24 potentially non-ETBT lands, and that putting 5 in M14 would mean unequal mana fixing for a time, and then allow them to only put 5 in Theros. Instead they opted to put a full mana fixing cycle in Theros, thus no cycle in M14.
Absolutely nowhere does he say that shock lands wouldn't work well with Theros duals, nor fetch lands for that matter.
He never said that. Instead, he says that standard already had 24 potentially non-ETBT lands, and that putting 5 in M14 would mean unequal mana fixing for a time, and then allow them to only put 5 in Theros. Instead they opted to put a full mana fixing cycle in Theros, thus no cycle in M14.
Absolutely nowhere does he say that shock lands wouldn't work well with Theros duals, nor fetch lands for that matter.
Should have read the entire article. Second to the last paragraph.
Should have read the entire article. Second to the last paragraph.
I did read it. Did you?
Again, I believe the lands we have in place for Theros block are wonderful, but they do not offer the same level of ease and power with three-color mana bases as the shockland/M10-dual-land combination.
Doesn't say anything about them NOT working with shocklands or M10 checklands, nor that they would be "too powerful" to pair with them.
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They might decide to reprint fetches in MM 2, though.
However, many staples didn't drop a lot after MM. The big mythics actually went up in price and it's unlikely WOTC is going to do another reprint of them anytime soon.
It doesn't seem like WOTC's goal is to make Modern more affordable by lowering prices. It seems more like WOTC is trying to give players the "chance" to get older Modern cards- chance is the great equalizer, after all.
Do you guys think it's possible that Modern prices will spiral out of control and WOTC will convince themselves that it's okay by essentially giving players lottery tickets to obtain staples?
"Oh, you need 4 Fetchlands? Here, open packs and if you got SUPER SWAG, you might get them!"
I'm certain we will see MM2, but will they print more next time? Less? Will the set size be larger or smaller? How will rarities be adjusted? Which sets will be covered? Will Tarmogoyf and Dark Confidant be reprinted yet again?
We just don't know for sure. My guess is that MM2 will feature fetch lands at rare.
Of course, putting them in MMA2 would guarantee a crazy amount of hype for the set and it would sell out possibly even faster than MMA did. This might bring in more $$ in the long run. Legacy Masters is also not out of the question, though I expect it is less likely.
They work on a very long timetable(2-3 years in design and another 2-3 years past that in planning). We're less than a year into their ~5 year plan for Modern. Give them some time and have a little faith.
I don't think Wizards goal was ever to make a more affordable format. They want a non-rotating format they could print cards for.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=487991
My Sell List:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10893911#post10893911
the problem is, that many popular modern sets were printed in the time directly after kamigawa, where the playerbase had a big breakdown. which means that a lot less packs and boxes were sold of the sets with all this expensive cards.
that means that now there are much more players who want the cards much less people opened back then.
that means if wotc does not want, that modern gets the new legacy, they MUST reprint at least fetches soon, in a big set. and not in mm2, because that wont change the price by any means.. so we need a reprint in a standard set, so the price can drop to at least 10$ a piece...
I think it's also worth noting that Wizards will remain cautious. They were cautious with the print run of MM, because in Wizards' eyes the price of Tarmogoyf being $10 or $20 or $30 higher (i.e. underprinting) is infinitely preferable to crashing the market (i.e. overprinting).
Why do they have to worry about what is fair? And how is it not fair that you could go on to eBay right now and buy playsets of all the Modern legal fetches? And why should the system be fair to the people unwilling or unable to spend money on the hobby, but not to the people who are willing to spend money on the hobby? Wouldn't it make sense that the people who spend more money on the hobby care more about the hobby, yet you feel that Wizards should be unfair to them?
I think one of the Devs said that when FTV20 was spoiled, the next FTV was already either done or very close to finalized. That's for a supplemental product, not sure on normal expansions.
Mark Rosewater may have already answered this on his tumblr, it has to be a pretty common question.
There's ansolutely no reason why fetches can't be reprinted in Theros, although I would agree that M15 or Huey is more likely. I think Modern can survive another year.
They might, but they want to reprint Onslaught fetches as well, so unless they decide to start to introduce new cards into Modern via MM, it's far more likely fetches will be reprinted via Standard.
This is false. Virtually all staples dropped a lot after MM. Only three mythics went up slightly, but even the mythic dragons went down in price. A few cards are worth more in MM because of increased rarity (Auriok Salvagers) or have gone up due to new decks (Echoing Truth), but overall your statement is wrong. If you want to cite a staple other than Goyf, Bob, or Clique, please cite a specific card.
Edit: I just realized you were probably referring to Modern staples not in MM. Well, sure, but you can't reprint all staples in one MM set; there are too many cards, and MM was designed to be draftable. That made the set more propular but did limit its impact. But it was certainly successful in reducing the prices of most of the cards that WERE reprinted, and MM2 can take care of many of the cards you're concerned about. Remember, Aether Vial was $20!
In any case, fetchlands would almost certainly be reprinted at rare, so they will definitely drop in price when reprinted.
I don't know why you think this, but it's not true. Remember that MM1 was still an experiment to see if it would be well-received and if it would lower prices. It succeeded on both fronts. The biggest constraint was that it was not printed enough, and MM2 can certainly have a larger print run to address that.
100% impossible. You just have to realize that WotC is a large company that plans months and years ahead; it has a difficult time reacting quickly to short-term events like the sudden surge in Modern prices we've seen in the past couple of years. Just hang on for another year or two and you'll get your fetches.
u realise that wizards has nothing from people who spend 50$ to buy a single fetchland.
they get money if more people play magic/modern.
but because currently you need to spend several hundred dollars just for the modern base of most modern decks, that really keeps people out of modern.
stop being an elitist jerk and realise that more players = good for the game.
Yes, Wizards doesn't explicitly get anything extra from people who spend $50 on a Fetchland. But if they bought that Fetchland from me, that money would go right back into sealed product because I like cracking packs. So, they sold 12 more packs at Target, or a fatpack, or half a box from me being able to sell my card. Where do they get the money from people playing Modern? From people buying standard packs hoping for Modern staples?
Yes, in order to build a two or three colored deck you do currently have to spend a couple hundred dollars to have it be stable. But in Magic there are plenty of alternatives that you could build. Or go Mono colored. And one of MaRo's favorite things to say is that restrictions breed creativity. If everyone has access to the "best," where will the creativity be?
Now, if you think I'm elitist, I'm sorry. I don't view myself as elitist, I don't have all the cards I want to play all the decks I want, but I also don't see the "system" as being "unfair". I just try to trade to cards that fit in the deck I want to build, save my change and buy cards when possible, and keep bulk since modern bulk seems to have a bit of opportunity value. But if you want, keep making ad hominem attacks and hoping that all of the cards you want will decrease in value.
I do think all 10 fetches inevitably get reprinted, but they need a reason (either flavor or a mechanic like Landfall) to do it. Also note that reprinting the ONS fetches would help drive down the price of ZEN fetches, since fetching a land type is the same no matter how you do it.
[citation needed]
This is speculation, nothing more. Standard survived Pain Lands and Shock Lands at the same time; I think I can survive Shock Lands and Fetch Lands at the same time.
They didn't want to print checklands in M13 but they did anyway.
I'll agree that fetchlands are more likely in M15 or Huey, but never say never.
The secondary market benefits Wizards in a lot of ways. If you spend $50 on a card, that money goes towards things like paying for store rent, restocking of Magic products, and buying more singles off of other players.
No matter what you do, it sucks to have to spend money. But if we didn't spend money, we wouldn't have stores, or tournaments, or a massive development team making Magic as good as it is now.
That's not nice. And more players wouldn't mean anything if they didn't pay for the game.
I wouldn't say "never," but Sam Stoddard wrote an article saying the Theros duals wouldn't work as well with the shock lands as the buddy lands do. Thus, no fetches.
He never said that. Instead, he says that standard already had 24 potentially non-ETBT lands, and that putting 5 in M14 would mean unequal mana fixing for a time, and then allow them to only put 5 in Theros. Instead they opted to put a full mana fixing cycle in Theros, thus no cycle in M14.
Absolutely nowhere does he say that shock lands wouldn't work well with Theros duals, nor fetch lands for that matter.
Should have read the entire article. Second to the last paragraph.
I did read it. Did you?
Doesn't say anything about them NOT working with shocklands or M10 checklands, nor that they would be "too powerful" to pair with them.