Okay, it might be a bit of an odd question, but ever since someone started the question of "how are children educated and raised on Amonkhet" I kept asking myself something else. If everyone on this world is focused on the trials since the age of five and they all die very young, where do the children come from?
It is an odd question, but it still bugs me, are there women who are free of the trials the get pregnant? Do normal women get a few months of training off? Is there something like a title of vizier of life (as viziers seem to be free of the trials) women who are only there for the task of giving birth and raising the children until the age of five?
What do you think?
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They also have to have kids quite young by our standards with since the mother needs time to get back in shape for the trials (and at least some must have multiple kids). So you've got to start trying for kids around 16 or 17. Younger if people frequently die from training before having kids.
I don't think this is something creative put a lot of thought into, tbh.
Even with the Logans Run-esque population culling, I don't think its too shocking to know theres a lot of kids getting made. You basically have a society of young, athletic, extremely fit people with absolutely no obligations outside of training and competing. Its like a fantasy version of the Olympic village- only these Olympics have a 100% chance of killing you. Either way, there's a reason why they supply about 20,000 condoms to the Olympic village.
As far as pregnancy goes, I'm not sure. My best guess is that if you're pregnant, you can wait until you deliver to take the trials, both for reproductive purposes, and competitive purposes (I can imagine going through the trials while preggers probably isn't a pleasant, or promising, endeavor.). After that- I doubt theres much parent/child bonding, considering you still die early in the trials, while child raising seems a more communal matter.
They are raised by the anointed (mummies), gods and other initiates. The anointed maintain their memories and skills while also being obedient. The gods are actually benevolent and caring but have had their minds wiped thanks to Bolas. Initiates should be fairly obvious. There are also initiates in this world who even choose to settle down instead of completing the trials and don't mind becoming an anointed when they eventually pass on. Its not treason or blasphemy if an initiate chooses not to complete the trials so long as they still serve the god-pharaoh.
The anointed maintain their memories and skills while also being obedient.
The anointed can't speak and they can't produce milk so they're useless for raising kids in their first year of life and nearly useless for raising toddlers. Also its not like the anointed would have developed any useful childrearing skills during their life.
There are also initiates in this world who even choose to settle down instead of completing the trials and don't mind becoming an anointed when they eventually pass on. Its not treason or blasphemy if an initiate chooses not to complete the trials so long as they still serve the god-pharaoh.
Seems possible but do we have any evidence of this?
The anointed maintain their memories and skills while also being obedient.
The anointed can't speak and they can't produce milk so they're useless for raising kids in their first year of life and nearly useless for raising toddlers. Also its not like the anointed would have developed any useful childrearing skills during their life.
Yes that is more an initiate thing. Anointed not only grow food and build monuments and housing, but they do simple chores and also serve as instructors for training in combat. Initiates and the gods also help train children for the trials as well.
There are also initiates in this world who even choose to settle down instead of completing the trials and don't mind becoming an anointed when they eventually pass on. Its not treason or blasphemy if an initiate chooses not to complete the trials so long as they still serve the god-pharaoh.
Seems possible but do we have any evidence of this?
Here me out on this, Viziers and the vizier's helpers. People who help the initiates for their trials in various manners and others who govern over sections of the land that the initiates live in. That these helpers also have jobs such as repairing the Hekma which is one of the few things that anointed seemingly can't do.
What do you think the Trial of Solidarity consist of? Gideon sure did complete that one quickly.
... Okay, in all seriousness, yes, girls would probably get at least nine months off the training while in pregnancy, and either they themselves stay with their children for like one year, or those who don't participate in the Trials take care of them.
I was actually wondering this one myself just recently. The stories say that everyone does nothing but train and no one looks older than 20 (!), but the cards seem to depict people at least into their 30s, and show people who seem to be non-Initiates. Take a look at Supply Caravan, for instance. The guy leading the camels seems to be a merchant of some sort, definitely not in top shape or dressed as ornately as the Initiates. Besides which, logic would seem to indicate that devoting your entire population to one task simply isn't practical - even if the mummies can do all the manual labor you need people who can do things like city planning and management.
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From the Nissa-focused story, The Writing on the Wall: An elite ceremony metastasized into a mandatory life sentence. Thousands of infant orphans fathering three generations of a people with no past. He came and killed but did not stay and left an entire culture with a crude outline of whatever existed before—
So, even if the current system means not enough women are getting pregnant, with each generation getting smaller, it doesn't matter much. It is merely the third generation, and Bolas is already coming back to change everything. The system is not sustainable long term, but it only needed to last for a few decades anyway.
I was actually wondering this one myself just recently. The stories say that everyone does nothing but train and no one looks older than 20 (!), but the cards seem to depict people at least into their 30s, and show people who seem to be non-Initiates. Take a look at Supply Caravan, for instance. The guy leading the camels seems to be a merchant of some sort, definitely not in top shape or dressed as ornately as the Initiates. Besides which, logic would seem to indicate that devoting your entire population to one task simply isn't practical - even if the mummies can do all the manual labor you need people who can do things like city planning and management.
That card got me wondering too, because before they spoiled him all cards and all comments in the stories seemed to indicate that every single one (except the viziers) are living their life’s for the trials, so what is he doing that the mummies cant? This means either they got a choice, which isn't implied anywhere else or everyone that failed but survived can do something else, which the card Compulsory Rest begs to differ.
@wildice
That’s another possibility we still don't know how the world worked before Bolas took it, how big it was, maybe there where many more cities and now that only one is left there were enough people for a while, so the need for new births was small enough.
That’s the times when I miss the pw guides we used to get, I knew it’s sometimes a lot more entertaining to not know everything at once, but it’s still a long time till we get the artbook with all the info’s.
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I was actually wondering this one myself just recently. The stories say that everyone does nothing but train and no one looks older than 20 (!), but the cards seem to depict people at least into their 30s, and show people who seem to be non-Initiates. Take a look at Supply Caravan, for instance. The guy leading the camels seems to be a merchant of some sort, definitely not in top shape or dressed as ornately as the Initiates. Besides which, logic would seem to indicate that devoting your entire population to one task simply isn't practical - even if the mummies can do all the manual labor you need people who can do things like city planning and management.
That card got me wondering too, because before they spoiled him all cards and all comments in the stories seemed to indicate that every single one (except the viziers) are living their life’s for the trials, so what is he doing that the mummies cant? This means either they got a choice, which isn't implied anywhere else or everyone that failed but survived can do something else, which the card Compulsory Rest begs to differ.
@wildice
That’s another possibility we still don't know how the world worked before Bolas took it, how big it was, maybe there where many more cities and now that only one is left there were enough people for a while, so the need for new births was small enough.
That’s the times when I miss the pw guides we used to get, I knew it’s sometimes a lot more entertaining to not know everything at once, but it’s still a long time till we get the artbook with all the info’s.
I interpreted compulsory rest as the mummies dragging the initiate away from the trial (or training) and his being unable to continue. Taking an injury that would make it clear that you cannot complete the trials might disqualify you from them. Given that they are taught that completion of the trials is a requirement for the best afterlife, forbidding them from the trials and making them a priest or caravan manager would be seen as horrible by the initiate, as it would be condemning them to eventually becoming anointed, at best. It is taking away the only meaning they've ever been taught.
But yeah, it seems that vizier's aren't competing in the trials, yet the oldest person met so far is Hapatra, who is close to 40, or possibly slightly older but looks younger due to cosmetics or the salubrious effects of training. We know that we are 3 generations in to this system, so Hapatra is probably from the first group born under Bolas (the first breeding group would have existed pre Bolas and remembered some of their past, so they were likely just slaves not trainees and not given contact with their offspring). There are young children around, which means the post Bolas generations are reproducing. Hapatra is gen 1, current trainees are gen 2, kids are gen 3. Early teens to mid teens are likely the reproductive years. Hapatra has kids at 14-17, her kids have kids at the same age, when Hapatra is between 28-34, and that current group of kids is around 5, putting Hapatra at 33-39, Nissa's estimate. Kids are raised like Spartans. Makes sense as well, right at the height of puberty let's them get it out of their system and be ready to take their trials without distraction in their early to mid 20s, peak physical age.
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I don't think this is something creative put a lot of thought into, tbh.
I disagree. They are world builders; this is a conversation they would have had. My assumption is that it's generally not worth it for them to explain child-birth ever.
Like the aven on this world. How does their biology work? Do the come from eggs? What about the naga people?
Isn't Hapatra older than 20? I thought she was described as unusually old when Nissa(?) met her.
Teaching children math or history or science seems like a waste of time if their main role is to be fit for combat and the trials. It's not clear what the Trial of Knowledge encompasses, so that would surely need some time spent on it. It's not clear that reading and writing is something most children on this world need anyway.
I can't see the society having/requiring everyone train for trials. The viziers, for instance, don't seem to be living with that goal in mind. The art seems to depict mostly adults (which a game for adults would want to focus on, for relatability).
I wonder if a child with a dagger would have been approved for printing as a creature card.
Story podcast today cleared it up, the babies are raised by mummies with some help here and there from viziers. Moms will still train for the trials until a few months before going into birth. After that they go right back to training and neither parent will have a role in the Childs life.
While I don't want get into the whole talk of different races reproductive habits, Aven and Naga might lay eggs which takes less time and toll on the mothers body.
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They also mentioned that the Trial of Strength (the green one) apparently lasts (or has a gap of) YEARS, during which it's entirely possibly the women could have gotten pregnant, had the baby, and gotten back into fighting form by the end of it.
Crazy idea, what if after the GUW trials winners would have a crazy orgy? Before the black and red trials.
The smart and the strong that remain would have a trial of Solidarity.
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It is an odd question, but it still bugs me, are there women who are free of the trials the get pregnant? Do normal women get a few months of training off? Is there something like a title of vizier of life (as viziers seem to be free of the trials) women who are only there for the task of giving birth and raising the children until the age of five?
What do you think?
Thanks to DarkNightCavalier from Heroes of the Plane Studios for this sick Signature.
I don't think this is something creative put a lot of thought into, tbh.
Even with the Logans Run-esque population culling, I don't think its too shocking to know theres a lot of kids getting made. You basically have a society of young, athletic, extremely fit people with absolutely no obligations outside of training and competing. Its like a fantasy version of the Olympic village- only these Olympics have a 100% chance of killing you. Either way, there's a reason why they supply about 20,000 condoms to the Olympic village.
As far as pregnancy goes, I'm not sure. My best guess is that if you're pregnant, you can wait until you deliver to take the trials, both for reproductive purposes, and competitive purposes (I can imagine going through the trials while preggers probably isn't a pleasant, or promising, endeavor.). After that- I doubt theres much parent/child bonding, considering you still die early in the trials, while child raising seems a more communal matter.
...
...
Okay I'll just see myself out.
The anointed can't speak and they can't produce milk so they're useless for raising kids in their first year of life and nearly useless for raising toddlers. Also its not like the anointed would have developed any useful childrearing skills during their life.
Seems possible but do we have any evidence of this?
Here me out on this, Viziers and the vizier's helpers. People who help the initiates for their trials in various manners and others who govern over sections of the land that the initiates live in. That these helpers also have jobs such as repairing the Hekma which is one of the few things that anointed seemingly can't do.
... Okay, in all seriousness, yes, girls would probably get at least nine months off the training while in pregnancy, and either they themselves stay with their children for like one year, or those who don't participate in the Trials take care of them.
Xantcha, Phyrexian Reject
Jodah, Archmage Eternal
Tovolar, Howlpack Alpha
Pivlic, Orzhov Informant
Crixizix, Master Engineer
Feather, Boros Peacekeeper
Marisi Coilbreaker
O-Kagachi
Gix, Phyrexian Praetor
Karn, Father of Machines
Yawgmoth, Father of Machines
Serra, Mother of All Angels
Tevesh Szat, Doom of Fools
Leshrac the Nightwalker
Jeska, the Thrice-Touched
Elspeth Returned
Crucius the Mad
Taysir the Infinite
Urza's Head (Unglued!)
An elite ceremony metastasized into a mandatory life sentence. Thousands of infant orphans fathering three generations of a people with no past. He came and killed but did not stay and left an entire culture with a crude outline of whatever existed before—
So, even if the current system means not enough women are getting pregnant, with each generation getting smaller, it doesn't matter much. It is merely the third generation, and Bolas is already coming back to change everything. The system is not sustainable long term, but it only needed to last for a few decades anyway.
That card got me wondering too, because before they spoiled him all cards and all comments in the stories seemed to indicate that every single one (except the viziers) are living their life’s for the trials, so what is he doing that the mummies cant? This means either they got a choice, which isn't implied anywhere else or everyone that failed but survived can do something else, which the card Compulsory Rest begs to differ.
@wildice
That’s another possibility we still don't know how the world worked before Bolas took it, how big it was, maybe there where many more cities and now that only one is left there were enough people for a while, so the need for new births was small enough.
That’s the times when I miss the pw guides we used to get, I knew it’s sometimes a lot more entertaining to not know everything at once, but it’s still a long time till we get the artbook with all the info’s.
Thanks to DarkNightCavalier from Heroes of the Plane Studios for this sick Signature.
I interpreted compulsory rest as the mummies dragging the initiate away from the trial (or training) and his being unable to continue. Taking an injury that would make it clear that you cannot complete the trials might disqualify you from them. Given that they are taught that completion of the trials is a requirement for the best afterlife, forbidding them from the trials and making them a priest or caravan manager would be seen as horrible by the initiate, as it would be condemning them to eventually becoming anointed, at best. It is taking away the only meaning they've ever been taught.
But yeah, it seems that vizier's aren't competing in the trials, yet the oldest person met so far is Hapatra, who is close to 40, or possibly slightly older but looks younger due to cosmetics or the salubrious effects of training. We know that we are 3 generations in to this system, so Hapatra is probably from the first group born under Bolas (the first breeding group would have existed pre Bolas and remembered some of their past, so they were likely just slaves not trainees and not given contact with their offspring). There are young children around, which means the post Bolas generations are reproducing. Hapatra is gen 1, current trainees are gen 2, kids are gen 3. Early teens to mid teens are likely the reproductive years. Hapatra has kids at 14-17, her kids have kids at the same age, when Hapatra is between 28-34, and that current group of kids is around 5, putting Hapatra at 33-39, Nissa's estimate. Kids are raised like Spartans. Makes sense as well, right at the height of puberty let's them get it out of their system and be ready to take their trials without distraction in their early to mid 20s, peak physical age.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Like the aven on this world. How does their biology work? Do the come from eggs? What about the naga people?
Isn't Hapatra older than 20? I thought she was described as unusually old when Nissa(?) met her.
Teaching children math or history or science seems like a waste of time if their main role is to be fit for combat and the trials. It's not clear what the Trial of Knowledge encompasses, so that would surely need some time spent on it. It's not clear that reading and writing is something most children on this world need anyway.
I can't see the society having/requiring everyone train for trials. The viziers, for instance, don't seem to be living with that goal in mind. The art seems to depict mostly adults (which a game for adults would want to focus on, for relatability).
I wonder if a child with a dagger would have been approved for printing as a creature card.
Older Magic as a Board Game: Panglacial Wurm , Mill
Older Magic as a Board Game: Panglacial Wurm , Mill
While I don't want get into the whole talk of different races reproductive habits, Aven and Naga might lay eggs which takes less time and toll on the mothers body.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
The smart and the strong that remain would have a trial of Solidarity.