Had a confusing series of spells in a recent game and wanted to make sure things resolved correctly.
My opponent casts Lightning Helix and I respond with Radiate. Then another opponent Swerves my Radiate to target Swerve. He seemed to think this would somehow fizzle my Radiate or he would be able to choose a new target for Lightning Helix. I'm pretty sure that my Radiate would then copy Swerve for all legal targets (Lightning Helix) and I would control the copy and could then target whoever/whatever I wanted with the Lightning Helix.
No, because you can't Swerve a Radiate to Swerve itself. Keep in mind the wording of Radiate...
Choose target instant or sorcery spell that targets only a single permanent or player.
Radiate has to target a spell that targets a single permanent or player. A spell on the stack is neither, so you can't change the target of Radiate to Swerve.
114.6a If an effect allows a player to “change the target(s)” of a spell or ability, each target can be changed only to another legal target. If a target can’t be changed to another legal target, the original target is unchanged, even if the original target is itself illegal by then. If all the targets aren’t changed to other legal targets, none of them are changed.
You do realize first that Radiate's copies of Helix will hit you and your perms also?
As for the rules stuff... Your opponent cannot Swerve your Radiate to target Swerve because it is an invalid target since Radiate MUST target a instant or sorcery that targets a player or perm.
Swerve doesn't fizzle, neither does Radiate. Swerve simply does nothing on resolution, since the target of Radiate can't be changed, leaving Radiate to target Lighting Helix. Radiate then resolves as normal.
1. Swerve does nothing
2. Radiate makes copies of Helix for every Creature and Player in the game
then...
Rules question:
Who "controls" the copies made by Radiate for the life gain part (since the targets are already forced by Radiate)?
zenguitar who played Radiate or his opponent? Cause if it is his opponent this is a dumb move that will gain his opponent TONS of life.
Who "controls" the copies made by Radiate for the life gain part (since the targets are already forced by Radiate)?
The controller of Radiate will control the copies...
706.9. To copy a spell or activated ability means to put a copy of it onto the stack; a copy of a spell isn’t cast and a copy of an activated ability isn’t activated. A copy of a spell or ability copies both the characteristics of the spell or ability and all decisions made for it, including modes, targets, the value of X, and additional or alternative costs. (See rule 601, “Casting Spells.”) Choices that are normally made on resolution are not copied. If an effect of the copy refers to objects used to pay its costs, it uses the objects used to pay the costs of the original spell or ability. A copy of a spell is owned by the player under whose control it was put on the stack. A copy of a spell or ability is controlled by the player under whose control it was put on the stack. A copy of a spell is itself a spell, even though it has no spell card associated with it. A copy of an ability is itself an ability.
And, when those copies are put onto the stack, that player also chooses the order the copies are actually put onto the stack. (Which could be very relevant depending on what the original Lightning Helix was targeting, versus what else the copies could target.) Then each of the copies resolve "last-in/first-out", and finally the original Lightning Helix.
My opponent casts Lightning Helix and I respond with Radiate. Then another opponent Swerves my Radiate to target Swerve. He seemed to think this would somehow fizzle my Radiate or he would be able to choose a new target for Lightning Helix. I'm pretty sure that my Radiate would then copy Swerve for all legal targets (Lightning Helix) and I would control the copy and could then target whoever/whatever I wanted with the Lightning Helix.
Is this the correct way to resolve these spells?
No, because you can't Swerve a Radiate to Swerve itself. Keep in mind the wording of Radiate...
Choose target instant or sorcery spell that targets only a single permanent or player.
Radiate has to target a spell that targets a single permanent or player. A spell on the stack is neither, so you can't change the target of Radiate to Swerve.
114.6a If an effect allows a player to “change the target(s)” of a spell or ability, each target can be changed only to another legal target. If a target can’t be changed to another legal target, the original target is unchanged, even if the original target is itself illegal by then. If all the targets aren’t changed to other legal targets, none of them are changed.
As for the rules stuff... Your opponent cannot Swerve your Radiate to target Swerve because it is an invalid target since Radiate MUST target a instant or sorcery that targets a player or perm.
Swerve doesn't fizzle, neither does Radiate. Swerve simply does nothing on resolution, since the target of Radiate can't be changed, leaving Radiate to target Lighting Helix. Radiate then resolves as normal.
2. Radiate makes copies of Helix for every Creature and Player in the game
then...
Rules question:
Who "controls" the copies made by Radiate for the life gain part (since the targets are already forced by Radiate)?
zenguitar who played Radiate or his opponent? Cause if it is his opponent this is a dumb move that will gain his opponent TONS of life.
The controller of Radiate will control the copies...
706.9. To copy a spell or activated ability means to put a copy of it onto the stack; a copy of a spell isn’t cast and a copy of an activated ability isn’t activated. A copy of a spell or ability copies both the characteristics of the spell or ability and all decisions made for it, including modes, targets, the value of X, and additional or alternative costs. (See rule 601, “Casting Spells.”) Choices that are normally made on resolution are not copied. If an effect of the copy refers to objects used to pay its costs, it uses the objects used to pay the costs of the original spell or ability. A copy of a spell is owned by the player under whose control it was put on the stack. A copy of a spell or ability is controlled by the player under whose control it was put on the stack. A copy of a spell is itself a spell, even though it has no spell card associated with it. A copy of an ability is itself an ability.
And, when those copies are put onto the stack, that player also chooses the order the copies are actually put onto the stack. (Which could be very relevant depending on what the original Lightning Helix was targeting, versus what else the copies could target.) Then each of the copies resolve "last-in/first-out", and finally the original Lightning Helix.