If I've got lots of removal it sticks, otherwise take four. Same as anyone with a brain, it's the reason Vexing Devil isn't very good. Usually take four.
...not only is the total number of players expanding very quickly, but at the same time a greater and greater number of those players are being pushed to only desire a small subset of the available cards. These combined forces drastically increase demand for those cards and cause the values of just those specific cards to often balloon out of proportion.
If I've got lots of removal it sticks, otherwise take four. Same as anyone with a brain, it's the reason Vexing Devil isn't very good. Usually take four.
I have no intention of arguing whether it is good or not. I just drew a comparison to another card, that I think is quite compelling.
...not only is the total number of players expanding very quickly, but at the same time a greater and greater number of those players are being pushed to only desire a small subset of the available cards. These combined forces drastically increase demand for those cards and cause the values of just those specific cards to often balloon out of proportion.
So go down to 16 and basically put my opponent on a mulligan to 6 or do a 1 for 1 with a kill spell? I don't think its even close. I would go down to 16. A free kill spell for 4 life and no loss in CA.
If you want to ban powerful cards, why not Islands? They have been proven to be fairly unfair in most cases.
The worst turn 1 play you can face down is Draw, play basic Island and say, "go"
Okay, now that I am getting answers, my position was pretty much the same.
Better to take the damage you know about, then put up with the damage you don't know about.
I used to always take 5 damage from Browbeat (when I let people play with that deck) When a friend asked me why, I simply told him that its because I'd rather take 5 damage, than let a browbeat tease out a Lightning bolt, a shock, and a land.
Its straight card advantage.
So far as I am concerned, a Vexing devil is a 4 point lightning bolt. If it resolves, I'd be surprised as hell.
The one deck I run it in, its counterbalanced by Figure of Destiny and Savannah Lions for 1st turn drops. Its only there to put the factor into my opponents decisions.
Its too risky to let it resolve, and let it be equipped in the early game. Just head down to 16, and let your own card advantage do the work.
You always take the 4. Life is a resource and less important then the number of cards in your hand resource. Vexing devil implys an aggro deck of sorts. You get a free Dismember without having to extinguish any cards from your hand in the procress. It instantly gives you card advantage and board advantage.
Secondly, I play around Varolz the Scar Striped for the rest of the game, assuming my opponent will cast it at some stage. If I'm running Abrupt Decay, I might not use that on their first two-drop, for instace.
You always take the 4. Life is a resource and less important then the number of cards in your hand resource. Vexing devil implys an aggro deck of sorts. You get a free Dismember without having to extinguish any cards from your hand in the procress. It instantly gives you card advantage and board advantage.
All true enough. Even though my decks almost universally cannot gain life, I would still take the suicide 4, to maintain my position at the start.
If I've got lots of removal it sticks, otherwise take four. Same as anyone with a brain, it's the reason Vexing Devil isn't very good. Usually take four.
You are just plain wrong if you think Vexing Devil isn't very good. In almost every circumstance it is a 4 point bolt on a stick, because just about every opponent is gonna take 4 damage. There is nothing at all wrong with that.
I love 4 damage Lava Spike(s) on turn 1. I play Vexing Devil as a 4 of in my Modern Burn deck for sure, and I've had success with him in Legacy as well. I count on my opponents to eat the 4 instead of blowing removal or letting it resolve. In fact when it resolves I pretty much know its eating removal so I'm content with that.
You are just plain wrong if you think Vexing Devil isn't very good. In almost every circumstance it is a 4 point bolt on a stick, because just about every opponent is gonna take 4 damage. There is nothing at all wrong with that.
Its sometimes correct to not take 4 if you have a removal spell and if you think your opponent is on a Burn-style deck.
Its possible that Vexing Devil is their only creature in their hand and you are nullifying the virtual card advantage Burn-decks usually get by blanking opposing removal.
Me personally, if I think my opponent is a Burn deck and I have the removal spell, I will use my removal spell for the Vexing Devil and not take 4.
Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
Obviously, when an opponent plays a vexing devil turn 1, you're supposed to berate and belittle them for playing such an absolutely terrible card, insult their deckbuilding skills and intelligence, then mock them unceasingly until they quit or you get DQ'd for unsportsmanlike conduct.
The funny thing about vexing devil is that it's a 4/3, so unless you have removal to deal with it right nao then it's a no brainer to take 4 even against a burn deck, this might have been a more misleading card (and thus better) if it was a 3/2 or something.
Obviously, when an opponent plays a vexing devil turn 1, you're supposed to berate and belittle them for playing such an absolutely terrible card, insult their deckbuilding skills and intelligence, then mock them unceasingly until they quit or you get DQ'd for unsportsmanlike conduct.
The problem with Vexing Devil isn't that it's 4 damage on turn 1. It's that it isn't 4 damage on turn 6 or 7 when they're at 4 or less. It's not only a creature you can counter by taking damage, it's a burn spell you can counter by giving the opponent a creature. And you get to choose which one it is. While you can pull off some sick and nasty plays with Vexing Devil, it's not worth just tossing him into a deck unless you can pull some of those plays off.
So, yeah, someone plays a Vexing Devil turn 1, I shrug and take the 4. Haven't seen someone pull anything particularly interesting with him yet.
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If I have a removal spell I let it resolve and then kill it most likely.
If I don't then I will start the game at 16 life and them with 6 cards.
The problem though is that even if I had a kill spell at 1 CMC which I could play on turn 1 why would I use it on the devil when I can just spend 4 life. Vexing devils gone and he plays his second creature which I can now kill with the kill spell I didn't use the first time. Hey look at that 4 damage 1 kill spell and my aggro opponent has no creatures on his 3rd turn and is down 2 cards to my 1. I would gladly be down 4 life if it meant I could have that kind of advantage against the aggro player going into turn 3.
If you want to ban powerful cards, why not Islands? They have been proven to be fairly unfair in most cases.
The worst turn 1 play you can face down is Draw, play basic Island and say, "go"
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Let it resolve because you know your removal can deal with it?
I know what I would do, but, please tell me what you would do, and explain your choice.
(PS: you don't know anything else about his deck)
what's the format? what deck am i playing? what's in my opening hand?
Take your pick. If there is a difference in how you would play it according to format, then, please explain.
I have a conclusion that I am disputing with a friend, so I"m just trying to prove a point.
I have no intention of arguing whether it is good or not. I just drew a comparison to another card, that I think is quite compelling.
BaconoftheArk speaks the truth:
Better to take the damage you know about, then put up with the damage you don't know about.
I used to always take 5 damage from Browbeat (when I let people play with that deck) When a friend asked me why, I simply told him that its because I'd rather take 5 damage, than let a browbeat tease out a Lightning bolt, a shock, and a land.
Its straight card advantage.
So far as I am concerned, a Vexing devil is a 4 point lightning bolt. If it resolves, I'd be surprised as hell.
The one deck I run it in, its counterbalanced by Figure of Destiny and Savannah Lions for 1st turn drops. Its only there to put the factor into my opponents decisions.
Its too risky to let it resolve, and let it be equipped in the early game. Just head down to 16, and let your own card advantage do the work.
First I take 4.
Secondly, I play around Varolz the Scar Striped for the rest of the game, assuming my opponent will cast it at some stage. If I'm running Abrupt Decay, I might not use that on their first two-drop, for instace.
All true enough. Even though my decks almost universally cannot gain life, I would still take the suicide 4, to maintain my position at the start.
Depends on what I'm playing.
Maybe choose creature if I know he's a burn deck. Otherwise take the damage.
Generally doesn't matter. I'll even let the opponent choose if I'm feeling confident.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
You are just plain wrong if you think Vexing Devil isn't very good. In almost every circumstance it is a 4 point bolt on a stick, because just about every opponent is gonna take 4 damage. There is nothing at all wrong with that.
New to Commander? Read the Above article.
The answer in one sentence.
If I think it will hit me more than once in its best-case scenario, I pay 4. Otherwise, it resolves and dies later.
Best-case does not mean 'I have a blocker', it means 'I have several unconditional removal spells'.
Vexing Devil means a burn deck, so your life total is at a priority, and creatures able to block it won't come down on turn 2.
Lurker. Rules Advisor. Sleepy.
Its sometimes correct to not take 4 if you have a removal spell and if you think your opponent is on a Burn-style deck.
Its possible that Vexing Devil is their only creature in their hand and you are nullifying the virtual card advantage Burn-decks usually get by blanking opposing removal.
Me personally, if I think my opponent is a Burn deck and I have the removal spell, I will use my removal spell for the Vexing Devil and not take 4.
Modern:
Something new every week
Legacy:
Something new everyweek
A 3/4 Tarmogoyf is certainly plausible on turn 2.
I never thought of this as a tactic.
So, yeah, someone plays a Vexing Devil turn 1, I shrug and take the 4. Haven't seen someone pull anything particularly interesting with him yet.
Hoi, hoi, u embleer hrair
M'saion ulé hraka vair.
If I don't then I will start the game at 16 life and them with 6 cards.
The problem though is that even if I had a kill spell at 1 CMC which I could play on turn 1 why would I use it on the devil when I can just spend 4 life. Vexing devils gone and he plays his second creature which I can now kill with the kill spell I didn't use the first time. Hey look at that 4 damage 1 kill spell and my aggro opponent has no creatures on his 3rd turn and is down 2 cards to my 1. I would gladly be down 4 life if it meant I could have that kind of advantage against the aggro player going into turn 3.
BaconoftheArk speaks the truth: