I started edh perhaps ..well i can't remember. Anyway, i don't know how to refine my deck at all. I mostly collected for the 2 years that i've started playing magic. I don't know much about playing cause i honestly don't know anybody who plays magic.
When you have useless cards in your deck or cards you're finding ineffective, do you go through cards you think that will be useful and try to find that card for playtesting? I'm lost on this subject.
You've been collecting and building decks for 2 years but you don't know anybody that plays magic? I don't really understand.
Edit: If my post came off as rude or standoffish I didn't mean for it to. I just think some more information on your situation might be helpful, as it stands I can't make sense of it.
You've been collecting and building decks for 2 years but you don't know anybody that plays magic? I don't really understand.
Edit: If my post came off as rude or standoffish I didn't mean for it to. I just think some more information on your situation might be helpful, as it stands I can't make sense of it.
Haven't been deckbuilding. Mostly just buying cards I thought were cool and vintage. (not anything from vintage) Cards like underground sea and jace. Just anything that looks cool to me or has historical roots to magic.
The very first thing I do is play a few games with it (that's key).
After that I look for cards that I'm too attached to for bad reasons (maybe it won me a game once that and was awesome then but hasn't done anything much since).
Then I look for cards that are overkill. Sometimes a deck will have cards that are what players refer to as win-more. Those cards are potential spots for better cards for consistency.
Mostly, I play. When I notice my deck isn't running quite right, I make a point to pay attention to WHY in the next few games. Am I consistently mana-screwed? Flooded? Color screwed? Do I have too many answers, not enough threats? The other way around? Are there cards I used to run as amazing answers, but due to other players changing things up they're now dead in hand?
After I've gathered some first-hand data, I separate the deck by card type. I look at it, and see if my mana curve is all right, see if there's anything that immediately jumps out at me as 'not needed', and try to evaluate what cards I'm too attached to. Once I have that, I start pulling things aside for "definitely take out" and "Possibly take out". I replace them with things I think will work, and repeat the process until the deck seems to have its groove back.
It's quite difficult for me to trim my deck at times when I'm attached to particular cards. There are a lot of cuts I can make to make certain decks faster, but I find the cards too useful to let go. When you buy a playset of cards, it's always disappointing to move them to your binder and not use them.
It's quite difficult for me to trim my deck at times when I'm attached to particular cards. There are a lot of cuts I can make to make certain decks faster, but I find the cards too useful to let go. When you buy a playset of cards, it's always disappointing to move them to your binder and not use them.
If you want to try and build deck, but don't know many people that play (for testing against), one thing you could do is playtest online using a program like Magic Workstation or Cockatrice.
Or, if you have absolutely zero access to other players, you may consider moving to online collecting and playing, using the official Magic: the Gathering Online.
I do all my playtesting in MTGO these days. Infact, I do most of my playing in general there.
I started out just using it for playtesting--- but the level of play in MTGO is amazing for the most part, and its soooo much cheaper than in real life, and I can play anytime I want any format I want-- and opponents are easy to find, and I see a greater amount of decks to field against. Since my RL playgroup only plays one day a week, MTGO has become my main form of play the other 6 days.
But to answer your question-- I tend to play lots of games with a deck before I decide what to cut--- even if I know I need to make a change because my deck isnt up to par. What I look for is that point in the game when Im hoping to top deck something-- anything-- to help keep me in the game... maybe I need a creature, or an answer to a particular kind of threat. When I draw something that makes me go "crap, thats not going to help" I take note of what that card was.
After several games Ill go back and look and see what made the list, if one or two cards that I thought would be great turned out to be a bad draw at the wrong time in too many games-- then I look at what Id rather have had and substitute those cards out.
With MTGO, I can usually do that on the spot and then jump immediately into another game and test out my changes.
If Im still having issues, then I usually decide that its not a card problem, per say, as much as it is a strategy problem. Maybe my decks too slow, or I dont have enough card draw-- so Ill go through and make a big pile of cards that might help solve my problem, then I sort of rebuild the deck-- adding in a mix of what I had with a handful of these new cards-- then I try again.
For me, its a long process of playing, seeing what works, what doesnt-- and trying out new things to see if maybe something works better than what I already had. Using this method and playing online all the time against other mostly really good people has helped improve my game considerably. The bad thing is that Ive built some of my net decks irl-- and they make real life magic less exciting because my good decks in mtgo tend to be a little too good for my playgroup. But-- thats the power of playtesting at its finest.
Haven't been deckbuilding. Mostly just buying cards I thought were cool and vintage. (not anything from vintage) Cards like underground sea and jace. Just anything that looks cool to me or has historical roots to magic.
I see. Well, are there any game stores or comic shops near you? My first step would be calling them up and asking if they have regular events for Magic, or if people come in and play on a Saturday afternoon for example.
Even if they don't have the floor space to accomodate games on-site, some of them will run tournaments at nearby locations, or will have bulletin boards (actual, old fashioned cork and pin bulletin boards) where people can post that they're looking for a playgroup or a new player.
And you can always post in the forums here, there's at least one thread about looking for people to play with in your area. As others have said, there's always the online programs, which are a great way to test out a deck with no monetary investment. (If you use Cockatrice or MWS.) If you want to play some EDH online some time, send me a PM.
All of that said, here are the three things I would do in refining your deck:
1) Play, play, play. There's no substitute for this. You will start to see, if you're paying attention and keeping an open mind, which cards are working towards the deck's goal, and which aren't.
2) Read these and other forums. There are thousands of decklists posted online, and fairly well organized by format, color, etc. The great thing about forums is that you can scroll through an entire thread and see how a deck has evolved as the original poster either made changes himself or got feedback from other users. If you're lucky, once in a while someone will even give a good explanation of the changes and the reasons behind them.
3) Post your deck on these and other forums. Once you're at the point that you've built a deck and ironed out the major kinks yourself, it helps to get outside opinions from as many people as possible. You'll get some bad advice, but you'll get some great advice too. Figuring out how to tell the two apart (or how to test it out if you're not sure) is part of the learning process.
keep playing, against different decks. Don't play against the same one and tune your deck to beat that, it won't work that well(unless it's 85% of your meta(looking at Cawblade))
When you have useless cards in your deck or cards you're finding ineffective, do you go through cards you think that will be useful and try to find that card for playtesting? I'm lost on this subject.
You've been collecting and building decks for 2 years but you don't know anybody that plays magic? I don't really understand.
Edit: If my post came off as rude or standoffish I didn't mean for it to. I just think some more information on your situation might be helpful, as it stands I can't make sense of it.
Haven't been deckbuilding. Mostly just buying cards I thought were cool and vintage. (not anything from vintage) Cards like underground sea and jace. Just anything that looks cool to me or has historical roots to magic.
After that I look for cards that I'm too attached to for bad reasons (maybe it won me a game once that and was awesome then but hasn't done anything much since).
Then I look for cards that are overkill. Sometimes a deck will have cards that are what players refer to as win-more. Those cards are potential spots for better cards for consistency.
That's the basics of it.
Manaless Dredge
Standard:
Jund Birthing Pod Toolbox
After I've gathered some first-hand data, I separate the deck by card type. I look at it, and see if my mana curve is all right, see if there's anything that immediately jumps out at me as 'not needed', and try to evaluate what cards I'm too attached to. Once I have that, I start pulling things aside for "definitely take out" and "Possibly take out". I replace them with things I think will work, and repeat the process until the deck seems to have its groove back.
The latest Comprehensive Rules are also good, and can be found here.
RGGruul Aggro
WSoul Sisters
WBTokens
BUGRRestore Balance
BMono-Black Infect
EDH:
RGWMayael, the Anima
GWURoon of the Hidden Realm
BDrana, Kalastria Bloodchief
That's why you proxy before testing/buying.
Or, if you have absolutely zero access to other players, you may consider moving to online collecting and playing, using the official Magic: the Gathering Online.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
I started out just using it for playtesting--- but the level of play in MTGO is amazing for the most part, and its soooo much cheaper than in real life, and I can play anytime I want any format I want-- and opponents are easy to find, and I see a greater amount of decks to field against. Since my RL playgroup only plays one day a week, MTGO has become my main form of play the other 6 days.
But to answer your question-- I tend to play lots of games with a deck before I decide what to cut--- even if I know I need to make a change because my deck isnt up to par. What I look for is that point in the game when Im hoping to top deck something-- anything-- to help keep me in the game... maybe I need a creature, or an answer to a particular kind of threat. When I draw something that makes me go "crap, thats not going to help" I take note of what that card was.
After several games Ill go back and look and see what made the list, if one or two cards that I thought would be great turned out to be a bad draw at the wrong time in too many games-- then I look at what Id rather have had and substitute those cards out.
With MTGO, I can usually do that on the spot and then jump immediately into another game and test out my changes.
If Im still having issues, then I usually decide that its not a card problem, per say, as much as it is a strategy problem. Maybe my decks too slow, or I dont have enough card draw-- so Ill go through and make a big pile of cards that might help solve my problem, then I sort of rebuild the deck-- adding in a mix of what I had with a handful of these new cards-- then I try again.
For me, its a long process of playing, seeing what works, what doesnt-- and trying out new things to see if maybe something works better than what I already had. Using this method and playing online all the time against other mostly really good people has helped improve my game considerably. The bad thing is that Ive built some of my net decks irl-- and they make real life magic less exciting because my good decks in mtgo tend to be a little too good for my playgroup. But-- thats the power of playtesting at its finest.
I see. Well, are there any game stores or comic shops near you? My first step would be calling them up and asking if they have regular events for Magic, or if people come in and play on a Saturday afternoon for example.
Even if they don't have the floor space to accomodate games on-site, some of them will run tournaments at nearby locations, or will have bulletin boards (actual, old fashioned cork and pin bulletin boards) where people can post that they're looking for a playgroup or a new player.
And you can always post in the forums here, there's at least one thread about looking for people to play with in your area. As others have said, there's always the online programs, which are a great way to test out a deck with no monetary investment. (If you use Cockatrice or MWS.) If you want to play some EDH online some time, send me a PM.
All of that said, here are the three things I would do in refining your deck:
1) Play, play, play. There's no substitute for this. You will start to see, if you're paying attention and keeping an open mind, which cards are working towards the deck's goal, and which aren't.
2) Read these and other forums. There are thousands of decklists posted online, and fairly well organized by format, color, etc. The great thing about forums is that you can scroll through an entire thread and see how a deck has evolved as the original poster either made changes himself or got feedback from other users. If you're lucky, once in a while someone will even give a good explanation of the changes and the reasons behind them.
3) Post your deck on these and other forums. Once you're at the point that you've built a deck and ironed out the major kinks yourself, it helps to get outside opinions from as many people as possible. You'll get some bad advice, but you'll get some great advice too. Figuring out how to tell the two apart (or how to test it out if you're not sure) is part of the learning process.
everything is just theory otherwise.
Thanks to syndarion of Aeternal Studios for the awesome Sig.
Standard: MWLC All-InFect Illusion Control(MTGO)
EDH(MODO): :symg::symu::symb:The Mimeoplasm:symg::symu::symb: 6-2-0 in 4player