I created a new account to post this, believe it or not, but I have it from a very good source.
WOTC is planning Innistrad Echoes (that was the tentative name according to my source) for the SOI release (no word if it will also be included in the second set of the block). Similar to Zendikar Expeditions, except Innistrad Echoes will include a smaller card pool but will highlight some of the most powerful cards in the original Innistrad block. Including Liliana of the Veil, Gesit of Saint Traft, Avacyn and of course Snapcaster. This should be officially announced at PT OGW.
I love these types of inclusions, although I will never own many. I kind of like the full art cards like tectonic edge that will see play but are not too expensive.
Seems believable, and that this could be a recurring thing going forward. I hope it isn't, though, as it serves to drive down the median value of packs, which punishes people who buy only a small quantity of them.
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I didn't pull a single priceless treasure. I didn't pull a single BFZ expedition. I've yet to pull an Oath Expedition.If true, I look forward to not pulling a single Echo. :|
I could see this being true. It pushes packs and WotC can say "Look, we reprinted those cards you've been asking for," even though their extreme scarcity will do almost nothing for availability or price.
The plan to make players happy by giving super rare alter art foils of super playable cards kind of makes me mad. These cards need actual reprints in quantities that are easily attainable for players.
I would be interested in if we have any sort of data on the numbers of copies in expeditions opened in comparison to the judge programs.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
This is just a sad marketing move. Smart, but sad because we should have these powerful Innistrad singles in future Modern Masters sets (and we probably will), and additionally we should be given a strong enough set full of interesting commons, uncommons, rares, and mythics (ugh) that don't need such marketing ploys to sell more packs. Just give us a solid set with a wide range that satisfies the Johnnys, Timmys, Spikes, and nerds like me who care about a captivating story and influential flavor text.
The sad part is that although there is nothing to back this up, I could see WOTC doing this after expeditions.
Ah yes, let's continue to dangle a lottery ticket in front of magic players just to sell sets instead of, oh I don't know, making product the players actually want to buy. Blatant cash grabs like this are frustrating. I hope this doesn't actually happen.
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The thing is that even for people who actually want these rare cards that are hard to access, these types of things don't help them at all. I'm not in these formats in which such hard to obtain cards are dominant, but knowing that Wizards would rather put them into a game of bingo than actually reprint them in a way that would help the players is nasty.
I actually don't really want to buy much Oath of The Gatewatch. It has very few mechanics that I like (I'm only really interested in Surge, which wasn't really used that well anyhow) with only a couple of cards that actually interest me on a plane whose charm has been ruined and has art that tends to be kinda meh overall. That isn't to say that there aren't good things in the set, some of the cards really shine but the overall package isn't really riveting. It just feels better in the wake of the atrocious BFZ set.
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Regardless of if this is true, Wizards is at least trying. While it's certainly true that these printings should not count as reprints, Wizards is trying to put more of them in the players' hands. Because of the depowering of Standard, many of the cards printed in Innistrad are just too strong for Standard now. Why is Standard's power level important? Because with the way it's looking I doubt we'll get a Standard where Liliana of the Veil isn't overpowered, or one where a future Siege Rhino is deemed too strong.
Wizards can't put them in Standard without destabilizing the environment, so Wizards is trying to reprint them. And even if they print them in the place of a supplemental set, like Modern Masters, they have to stick to a limited print run otherwise they would piss off the investors/collectors or the people who's collections would take a massive hit.
They honestly could print a set of just money cards and print enough to match that of a set like BFZ, but then it'd be just another Chronicles. And we all saw what happened there.
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I actually don't really want to buy much Oath of The Gatewatch. It has very few mechanics that I like (I'm only really interested in Surge, which wasn't really used that well anyhow) with only a couple of cards that actually interest me on a plane whose charm has been ruined with art that tends to be kinda meh overall. That isn't to say that there aren't good things in the set, some of the cards really shine but the overall package isn't really riveting. It just feels better in the wake of the atrocious BFZ set.
So should I rephrase your quote "making product that I want to buy"? ^~^
Oath of the Gatewatch is a set that has a bunch of great constructed cards, lots of casual fluff like General Tazri, full-art lands etc. and the "blatant money grab". I'd argue that OGW is the exact antithesis of BFZ in this case. A good set with extra fluff thrown in.
Somewhat. The feel of the entire set is what males it good or great. Cards that make the cut in a standard environment that the majority of the player base recognizes as powered down is fine, but that powered down feeling along with the apathy many players have towards the design direction of the set is also a part of what defines it. Regardless, I have seen much more criticism of OGW than I have seen praise and what praise I have seen has been in respect to how it was better than BFZ.
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"Pop in, find a dragon, roast a dragon."
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I do hope this is true as I like these super-shiny-semi promo cards included in packs. I hope they'll give them some kind of a special frame to make them even more special as Zen. Expeditions. I do find it a bit odd that they'll include Geist of Saint Traft given its upcoming reprint as a face card for the upcoming Duel Deck: Blessed vs. Cursed.
This a terrible trend. Making them into expedition type of cards is a terrible idea because their price will hardly drop and making sure they will never get reprinted normally. This way Wizards can keep making crappy cards but will still sell because of the lottery style packs that has a small chance to contain a Liliana of the veil...
I just remembered Geist of Saint Traft is confirmed in the Duel Decks. If it appears as both an Echo and a DD card, that indicates being reprinted as an Ultra Super Rare doesn't exclude it from being reprinted in another mass way, too. Too much is unknown at the moment to jump to conclusions though.
WOTC is planning Innistrad Echoes (that was the tentative name according to my source) for the SOI release (no word if it will also be included in the second set of the block). Similar to Zendikar Expeditions, except Innistrad Echoes will include a smaller card pool but will highlight some of the most powerful cards in the original Innistrad block. Including Liliana of the Veil, Gesit of Saint Traft, Avacyn and of course Snapcaster. This should be officially announced at PT OGW.
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I would be interested in if we have any sort of data on the numbers of copies in expeditions opened in comparison to the judge programs.
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This is just a sad marketing move. Smart, but sad because we should have these powerful Innistrad singles in future Modern Masters sets (and we probably will), and additionally we should be given a strong enough set full of interesting commons, uncommons, rares, and mythics (ugh) that don't need such marketing ploys to sell more packs. Just give us a solid set with a wide range that satisfies the Johnnys, Timmys, Spikes, and nerds like me who care about a captivating story and influential flavor text.
Ah yes, let's continue to dangle a lottery ticket in front of magic players just to sell sets instead of, oh I don't know, making product the players actually want to buy. Blatant cash grabs like this are frustrating. I hope this doesn't actually happen.
-Chandra Nalaar
I actually don't really want to buy much Oath of The Gatewatch. It has very few mechanics that I like (I'm only really interested in Surge, which wasn't really used that well anyhow) with only a couple of cards that actually interest me on a plane whose charm has been ruined and has art that tends to be kinda meh overall. That isn't to say that there aren't good things in the set, some of the cards really shine but the overall package isn't really riveting. It just feels better in the wake of the atrocious BFZ set.
-Chandra Nalaar
Wizards can't put them in Standard without destabilizing the environment, so Wizards is trying to reprint them. And even if they print them in the place of a supplemental set, like Modern Masters, they have to stick to a limited print run otherwise they would piss off the investors/collectors or the people who's collections would take a massive hit.
They honestly could print a set of just money cards and print enough to match that of a set like BFZ, but then it'd be just another Chronicles. And we all saw what happened there.
Somewhat. The feel of the entire set is what males it good or great. Cards that make the cut in a standard environment that the majority of the player base recognizes as powered down is fine, but that powered down feeling along with the apathy many players have towards the design direction of the set is also a part of what defines it. Regardless, I have seen much more criticism of OGW than I have seen praise and what praise I have seen has been in respect to how it was better than BFZ.
-Chandra Nalaar
Maybe Craterhoof Behemoth. Of course, they could include other "powerful" cards that aren't being played in tournaments these days, like Primal Surge or Olivia Voldaren. And I think you missed the most powerful card in the block, Archangel's Light.