What would happen if, hypothetically, WOTC said today that "The Reserved List is no more"
How would you reprint those cards?
I'd see the Dual Lands reprinted via a "From the Vault" set, and demand being so high, and no one would ever see them in stores. Ever.
I doubt WOTC would print a Vintage Masters set, although I do see a Legacy Masters set as an idea. If the Dual Lands were in such a set, Force of Will, a few staples, and the Duals would be what would sell it, albeit very, very expensive in comparison to Modern Masters.
WOTC would turn that wheel nice and slow to get reprints and such out to the public I would think. I do not believe prices would drop one bit for any and all prior editions of the staples from such a printing. It hasn't been tried and tested, sure, but the fact that there is a $200-300 difference from one edition to another with the dual lands have me convinced that peoples collections with these staples would remain safe, as they were original printings and such.
Honestly, and this is the main thing people asking for the abolishment of that list fail to understand, nothing. They won't all of a sudden print these cards. Though they wouldn't announce the list going away with out a print coming soon, probably FTV with one or two actually desired cards, or a duel deck containing a number of irrelevant cards. And of course the article would play up the fact that the main point of getting rid of the list would be to allow them to print Thunder Spirit and friends and not to print all of the cards people complain about.
The likely hood of a vintage or legacy masters in paper is low and filled with possibilities people should be afraid of. Look at MM2015 now imagine the relevant cards are valued 2-6 times as much and there is just as much chaff all the while at least tripling the MSRP of the packs and lowering the overall print run. This comes in the summer with no chance of additional print runs because they have to push their quarterly products and anything that would detract from those are ill-advised.
Prices won't change until cards are actually reprinted. Consumer confidence drops a ton. They get sued a whole bunch, and, while they won't lose any of the lawsuits, they will face public outrage and numerous lawyer fees. A few collectors with large, expensive collections will quit. Hasbro will see fewer gains in that quarter and will see a drop in their stock prices, but will recover by printing large amounts of reserve list cards.
Joy and dancing in the streets!! Everyone can now play Vintage and Legacy!! =D lol
In all seriousness though, I think WOTC done goofed and let the cards and secondary market get too out of hand. Although I would prefer (and think many would prefer (although perhaps not as liberally as I would prefer)) liberal reprints so Legacy and Vintage can be more affordable (on par with modern or cheaper than current modern if WOTC made modern more affordable via liberal reprints as well), I think LuckyJoe1988's post is more in line with what WOTC would actually do. That being reprint so slowly and stringently that cards wouldn't really decrease in value at all and may actually increase (look at how WOTC is treating Modern Masters). I think WOTC is too worried about angering the secondary market by decreasing the value of current stock even though future sales of such reprints may make up for said loss and actually bring in more revenue due to more people coming into the game. As an aside, liberal reprints would also reduce incentives for counterfeiters (a long term risk for MtG economy).
Note: In an ideal world I think WOTC should have had a policy from the get go that they would automatically reprint cards in the next set (or product of reprints like a 'From The Vault' set but for expensive reprints only) if they are used in ANY top 8 deck in ANY format and hit $50 or more per card (note this price would have started lower if implemented in the early years of Magic, but then I would have tied it to inflation). Reprints would continue until the cheapest version of the card hits $20 or less per card and remains so for a specific period of time (e.g. Three months). In order to maintain collectibility and some price advancement of old cards the policy would mandate reprints of cards that hit the $50 price point feature new art and style. I think this would create a balanced MtG economy that is beneficial for players, collectors and investors.
Legacy, Vintage, and EDH staples receive long-deserved reprints.
Legacy and Vintage tournament attendance skyrockets, thus leading to more support for Eternal formats and more varied tournament experiences.
Casual players mostly don't give a crap, except that super busted cards are now easier to acquire.
Many hardcore card-hoarders (try saying that five times fast) become outraged and quit the game.
No one misses them.
Magic: The Gathering thrives in their absence.
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
The policy has been in place for 20 years now. That should be enough time for the original collectors / plaintiffs to recoup any amount lost from the original incident. 90% of them aren't even traded or played anymore. Heart Wolf? Snowblind? Musician?
What they can do, assuming the list is abolished, is like Time Spirals. Make a Eternal Masters draftable set, but have a special sheet for the cards that just came off the Reserved List. This maintains their scarcity and mystique. This special sheet follows the normal rarities: some are common, some are mythic rare, etc. Such that dual lands would be special rares and moxen special mythic rares. These special mythic rares are super rare, like 1 special mythic rare per 1 case. The chances of opening a specific special mythic rare is like 1 in 20 cases.
...and this is the main thing people asking for the abolishment of that list fail to understand...
I dunno, I find the "they won't mass reprint" argument also is suited for those who fear that somehow an abolishing would result in a flood right off the bat, a doom-and-gloom that has been used as an argument for quite some time.
I think Hasbro (&wotc) would just get notices of intent to sue from several third parties like SCG and the week after that would withdraw their statement, presumably firing the guys who took the decision and the one or two that announced it.
SCG has publicly said they think the reserved list is stupid and would like to see it abolished.
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All your base are belong to us!
RIP Batman guy. I hope somebody picks up the slack now that you are gone. Sick children need their Batman.
Even if the list was abolished WotC would pull modern masters with P9 and dual land type cards/they wouldn't put a dent in the prices of older versions in fact demand would go up and card prices would surge on duals and P9 in all likelihood especially if they made legacy a PT format or something significant.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
Legacy, Vintage, and EDH staples receive long-deserved reprints.
Legacy and Vintage tournament attendance skyrockets, thus leading to more support for Eternal formats and more varied tournament experiences.
Casual players mostly don't give a crap, except that super busted cards are now easier to acquire.
Many hardcore card-hoarders (try saying that five times fast) become outraged and quit the game.
No one misses them.
Magic: The Gathering thrives in their absence.
Most of the card hoarders aren't playing the game anyway, all but a few of them quit before Ice Age. A few never played the game to begin with.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
I have not been able to find a new page to replace it by any means available to me. Now we just have to wait an see if it returns in some form.
As best I can tell, this is because Wizards' bad site seems to be 404ing pretty much any article printed before, oh, two seconds ago. I can't find any of the old archives.
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"It is better for all the world if, instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes... Three generations of imbeciles are enough."
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
I think, honestly, even more than seeing the reserved list abolished, I wanna see the paperwork that led to its creation.
I wanna know what, specifically, and who was involved. Just to get a good idea as to why, without the speculation of just "it's for collecting," because...well, so few other card games have gone through this, and since they stopped adding things to it after a while, something clearly happened on that front.
I just have a lot of questions, and much as I love speculation, I don't know how much good could come of it without knowing the real reasoning, and legality.
On the official topic, though, I think it would cause the vocal minority to really cheer, the silent majority to go "Uh...there was a list?" And a lot of the same mentioned above.
If wizards actually abolished the reserved list and got sued for doing so, I say we as a community pitch together $$$ to support them and their legal costs. I'd gladly toss them a few bones to ease any consequences of litigation if the reserved list were abolished. I have a pretty decent reserved list collection and could give two rat turds about a drop in value of cards I own that are on the list. I own those cards either because I play them or I have some sort of sentimental attachment to them. Either way, I am not getting rid of them, so in essence they are worthless pieces of paper. An underground sea is not worth anything till you sell it or trade it to somebody for something.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
All your base are belong to us!
RIP Batman guy. I hope somebody picks up the slack now that you are gone. Sick children need their Batman.
It would stop being a collectible trading card game and become a game.
I find it amusing people gripe about the price of modern. Then think reprints of reserve list cards will make much difference for legacy and vintage prices. Goyf has been reprinted twice and costs how much?
Getting rid of the reserved list is wizard's trump card(heh),when things start going south for them,when they start loosing money and become desperate.If it does happen it seems like a last ditch effort to bring people back into the game.
I have not been able to find a new page to replace it by any means available to me. Now we just have to wait an see if it returns in some form.
As best I can tell, this is because Wizards' bad site seems to be 404ing pretty much any article printed before, oh, two seconds ago. I can't find any of the old archives.
There was a new page available last week, but that is currently 404'ing as well. :/
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
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Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
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What's the fallout?
Would there be lawsuits(initial fear that caused its creation)?
How would you reprint those cards?
I'd see the Dual Lands reprinted via a "From the Vault" set, and demand being so high, and no one would ever see them in stores. Ever.
I doubt WOTC would print a Vintage Masters set, although I do see a Legacy Masters set as an idea. If the Dual Lands were in such a set, Force of Will, a few staples, and the Duals would be what would sell it, albeit very, very expensive in comparison to Modern Masters.
WOTC would turn that wheel nice and slow to get reprints and such out to the public I would think. I do not believe prices would drop one bit for any and all prior editions of the staples from such a printing. It hasn't been tried and tested, sure, but the fact that there is a $200-300 difference from one edition to another with the dual lands have me convinced that peoples collections with these staples would remain safe, as they were original printings and such.
EDH DECKS
Currently under construction
MAGECRAFT STORM
-Veyran, Voice of Duality-
Protection from Degeneracy
Do not pray for an easy life. Pray for the strength to endure a difficult one.
The likely hood of a vintage or legacy masters in paper is low and filled with possibilities people should be afraid of. Look at MM2015 now imagine the relevant cards are valued 2-6 times as much and there is just as much chaff all the while at least tripling the MSRP of the packs and lowering the overall print run. This comes in the summer with no chance of additional print runs because they have to push their quarterly products and anything that would detract from those are ill-advised.
In all seriousness though, I think WOTC done goofed and let the cards and secondary market get too out of hand. Although I would prefer (and think many would prefer (although perhaps not as liberally as I would prefer)) liberal reprints so Legacy and Vintage can be more affordable (on par with modern or cheaper than current modern if WOTC made modern more affordable via liberal reprints as well), I think LuckyJoe1988's post is more in line with what WOTC would actually do. That being reprint so slowly and stringently that cards wouldn't really decrease in value at all and may actually increase (look at how WOTC is treating Modern Masters). I think WOTC is too worried about angering the secondary market by decreasing the value of current stock even though future sales of such reprints may make up for said loss and actually bring in more revenue due to more people coming into the game. As an aside, liberal reprints would also reduce incentives for counterfeiters (a long term risk for MtG economy).
Note: In an ideal world I think WOTC should have had a policy from the get go that they would automatically reprint cards in the next set (or product of reprints like a 'From The Vault' set but for expensive reprints only) if they are used in ANY top 8 deck in ANY format and hit $50 or more per card (note this price would have started lower if implemented in the early years of Magic, but then I would have tied it to inflation). Reprints would continue until the cheapest version of the card hits $20 or less per card and remains so for a specific period of time (e.g. Three months). In order to maintain collectibility and some price advancement of old cards the policy would mandate reprints of cards that hit the $50 price point feature new art and style. I think this would create a balanced MtG economy that is beneficial for players, collectors and investors.
Modern: URW Madcap Experiment
Pauper: MonoU Tempo Delver
My EDH Commanders:
Aminatou, The Fateshifter UBW
Azami, Lady of Scrolls U
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed B
Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG
Glissa, the Traitor BG
Arcum Dagsson U
Legacy and Vintage tournament attendance skyrockets, thus leading to more support for Eternal formats and more varied tournament experiences.
Casual players mostly don't give a crap, except that super busted cards are now easier to acquire.
Many hardcore card-hoarders (try saying that five times fast) become outraged and quit the game.
No one misses them.
Magic: The Gathering thrives in their absence.
What they can do, assuming the list is abolished, is like Time Spirals. Make a Eternal Masters draftable set, but have a special sheet for the cards that just came off the Reserved List. This maintains their scarcity and mystique. This special sheet follows the normal rarities: some are common, some are mythic rare, etc. Such that dual lands would be special rares and moxen special mythic rares. These special mythic rares are super rare, like 1 special mythic rare per 1 case. The chances of opening a specific special mythic rare is like 1 in 20 cases.
........................
I dunno, I find the "they won't mass reprint" argument also is suited for those who fear that somehow an abolishing would result in a flood right off the bat, a doom-and-gloom that has been used as an argument for quite some time.
SCG has publicly said they think the reserved list is stupid and would like to see it abolished.
RIP Batman guy. I hope somebody picks up the slack now that you are gone. Sick children need their Batman.
Currently Playing:
Retired
Most of the card hoarders aren't playing the game anyway, all but a few of them quit before Ice Age. A few never played the game to begin with.
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Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
The Page containing the reserved list policy and the list of cards found on said list is currently 404:ing. As in, it is gone.
http://magic.wizards.com/go/tcg/article.aspx?x=magic/products/reprintpolicy
I have not been able to find a new page to replace it by any means available to me. Now we just have to wait an see if it returns in some form.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
As best I can tell, this is because Wizards' bad site seems to be 404ing pretty much any article printed before, oh, two seconds ago. I can't find any of the old archives.
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
I wanna know what, specifically, and who was involved. Just to get a good idea as to why, without the speculation of just "it's for collecting," because...well, so few other card games have gone through this, and since they stopped adding things to it after a while, something clearly happened on that front.
I just have a lot of questions, and much as I love speculation, I don't know how much good could come of it without knowing the real reasoning, and legality.
On the official topic, though, I think it would cause the vocal minority to really cheer, the silent majority to go "Uh...there was a list?" And a lot of the same mentioned above.
RIP Batman guy. I hope somebody picks up the slack now that you are gone. Sick children need their Batman.
I find it amusing people gripe about the price of modern. Then think reprints of reserve list cards will make much difference for legacy and vintage prices. Goyf has been reprinted twice and costs how much?
Hoarders? You mean collectors right?
There was a new page available last week, but that is currently 404'ing as well. :/
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Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.