I found it interesting that two upcoming sets are codenamed "Lock" and "Stock, the thought came to me that perhaps Wotc is really going to shake up the established fantasy tropes of Magic. Gunslingers and Engineers are already prevalent in D&D and other fantasy lore, and it would be nice to see more tech in Magic. Izzet was a great start but maybe finally my Roland Deschain dream deck is going to become a reality.
Set codenames are decided before the theme, setting, or story of the sets themselves, so "Lock" and "Stock" will not necessarily be western themed, otherwise "Barrel" and "Monkeys" would be Donkey Kong themed. Gunslinging won't be a thing in Magic anytime soon as MaRo and likely other R&D members feel it takes too much away from the fantasy feel; spellslinging is the proposed substitute. And it's unlikely that they would mash western and steampunk together as they are both distinct archetypes that should be able to stand on their own.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
steampunk? hopefully
western? god, please not! i can't think of anything more far away from magic than this
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Huey, Dewey and Louie are always dressed in RUG. it is CLEARLY going to be the wedges block Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
I love westerns and would be quite thrilled to see a Weird West style plane.
A bonus side effect of messing with western tropes and mixing them up with Magic is that we could get representation of American Indians, Latin@s, and African Americans as cowboys and spellslingers. Magic's been really good about racial representation lately, and more diversity is always a good thing. It'd be nice to see the media tropes of Hollywood's Old West through a modern, fantasy lens- the white cowboy is pretty much an invention of film.
I dunno, I just think it'd be cool, but I also think there's fun tropes to work with and opportunities to be made. Heck, they could bring back the gold tokens from Theros as a mechanic, tie it into the gold rush.
Chandra would fit right in to a lawless frontier riddled with firefights. Of course, Gideon would work well as a sheriff-like character seeking to bring order to the frontier, and perhaps expose the corrupt lawkeepers already present. A black/red outlaw planeswalker would be a neat addition too.
Mallas, Notorious Outlaw 3BR
Planeswalker - Mallas
+1: ~ deals 2 damage to target player unless he or she discards a card.
-3: Destroy target artifact, creature, or land.
-8: You get an emblem with "Creatures you control have ' : This creature deals 1 damage to target creature or player.'"
4
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Magic doesn't have guns carried by a person, and most of the items that look like modernized weaponry have been cannons like Lux Cannon. The last time I remember anything resembling a gun was Rocket Launcher.
Magic doesn't have guns carried by a person, and most of the items that look like modernized weaponry have been cannons like Lux Cannon. The last time I remember anything resembling a gun was Rocket Launcher.
Magic doesn't have guns carried by a person, and most of the items that look like modernized weaponry have been cannons like Lux Cannon. The last time I remember anything resembling a gun was Rocket Launcher.
I totally understand that the western theme has been discussed before a few times over the years and it is usually met with rejection by a significant portion of the players. On the other hand I think Wotc can do the setting justice, they've shown that they can work within the confines of a theme and make it distinctly Magic. A few of the supporters here have presented some nice ideas on how it could work and I'd like to see that myself.
And Izzet? Can't get enough of those guys, so I'm right with ya'll.
We all know Falkenrath Exterminator would have been packing pistols if not for the "doesn't feel fantasy enough" clause. At any rate, it's been suggested that gunslinging in Western world would be replaced by spellslinging. I could see it: A couple of fireslingers having a showdown at high noon, a fireball ready in each hand. What better way to channel the essence of magic in a western?
And I have a few more bunch of card designs inspired by Western flavor:
Ranch WranglerW
Creature - Human Scout W, : Tap target creature.
1/1
Dairy CowW
Creature - Ox
, Tap an untapped creature you control: You gain 2 life.
0/3
Tied to the Tracks2B
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant creature
At the beginning of your upkeep, enchanted creature's controller sacrifices it.
Cattle Rustler2R
Creature - Human Rogue
When ~ enters the battlefield, untap target Ox and gain control of it until end of turn. It gains haste until end of turn.
2/2
Charging Bull3R
Creature - Ox
Trample, haste
~ attacks each turn if able.
3/2
Howling Coyote1R
Creature - Hound
When ~ enters the battlefield, target creature can't block this turn.
2/1
Prickly CactusG
Creature - Plant
Defender
1/3
Fireslinger's Gauntlet2
Artifact - Equipment
Whenever equipped creature attacks, it deals 1 damage to target creature or player.
Equip 2
Cowhand's Lasso1
Artifact - Equipment
Equipped creature has " , Unattach ~ : Tap target creature."
Equip 1
Regarding the presence of a Native culture in the Western setting, would it be acceptable to substitute races like Centaurs or Coyote folk for human natives? And what about Minotaurs appearing in Western world, given that bulls are a common part of the Western flavor? Can't forget vulture Aven!
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Well Taurens in Warcraft are pretty much native american and deeply shamanistic so I can see something like that working. Vulture Avens are pretty interesting, I'm picturing one acting pretty much like Lee Van Cleef in most of his western roles.
I could see Coyotefolk standing in for Goblins much like Satyrs did in Theros. It helps that one famous coyote is known for his bad luck and amusing physical injuries.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
I'd embrace, I've been watching a lot of westerns on Netflix and could have a great cast of characters for a heroes, outlaws gamblers, preachers and snake oil salesmen.
Guns would be workable if developed by a people oppressed by a group that was trying to restrict access to magic. Swords and iron weapons would still work, as WOTC could develop attachments for these weapons that allow them to fire off an EMP like blast that disables firearms. Maybe the attachment can be derived from some dangerous, hard to find wyvern-type creature whose habitat is deep in the forests, or in environmental extremes across the five types of basic land. That way, only certain warrior societies would have access to these EMP wyverns. Initially, anyway, before explorers, companies and corporations decided to try harvesting the EMP wyverns.
I see The Dark Tower cited. It combines the Western genre with science fiction and fantasy, seen in the presence of old technology that could harness a magical force known as the Prim. So the two, or three genres, are really compatible with one another. There's also the Malazan series, where you have magic and a race of theropods whose cities are colossal, mechanical constructions shaped like dragons. So steampunk, fantasy and the western combine easily enough.
It's not a matter of if they can combine. They're distinct archetypes that warrant individual attention instead of being lumped together. Mashing them together would devalue each one as simply part of a bigger theme and denying them the chance to stand on their own, not to mention cutting down on the total space each one gets. It'd be like if Innistrad was a Gothic Horror Pirates block instead of just Gothic Horror. I'd rather see Western block and Steampunk block than Western Steampunk block.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Guns would be workable if developed by a people oppressed by a group that was trying to restrict access to magic. Swords and iron weapons would still work, as WOTC could develop attachments for these weapons that allow them to fire off an EMP like blast that disables firearms. Maybe the attachment can be derived from some dangerous, hard to find wyvern-type creature whose habitat is deep in the forests, or in environmental extremes across the five types of basic land. That way, only certain warrior societies would have access to these EMP wyverns. Initially, anyway, before explorers, companies and corporations decided to try harvesting the EMP wyverns.
I see The Dark Tower cited. It combines the Western genre with science fiction and fantasy, seen in the presence of old technology that could harness a magical force known as the Prim. So the two, or three genres, are really compatible with one another. There's also the Malazan series, where you have magic and a race of theropods whose cities are colossal, mechanical constructions shaped like dragons. So steampunk, fantasy and the western combine easily enough.
Guns can certainly be justified flavorfully, but I think they remain something creative doesn't want in the game, for a number of reasons.
It's not a matter of if they can combine. They're distinct archetypes that warrant individual attention instead of being lumped together. Mashing them together would devalue each one as simply part of a bigger theme and denying them the chance to stand on their own, not to mention cutting down on the total space each one gets. It'd be like if Innistrad was a Gothic Horror Pirates block instead of just Gothic Horror. I'd rather see Western block and Steampunk block than Western Steampunk block.
It doesn't devalue anything. You're breathing life into more of the same we've already seen countless times. Churning out sets that're simply "alternate" versions of the Western, or Steampunk, would simply be appealing to the lowest common denominator by checking off everyone's list of expectations from a set incorporating all the tropes associated with the Western, or all the tropes seen in Steampunk. I don't necessarily think a setting should be bound by a theme. After all, is our world defined by a single theme? Innistrad did have Drogskull Captain, by the way.
How is focusing on a theme appealing to the lowest common denominator? That sounded almost condescending. How is it breathing new life into those genres when it was just pointed out in this topic that they've been combined before? Why is it necessary to breath new life into those genres? In what way are such sets "churned out"? Last I checked, we've only seen three top-down blocks in the past ten years.
A setting should have a more focused theme, otherwise it's just another ironically generic mishmash of everything but the kitchen sink. Restrictions breed creativity, and one of the best restrictions is theme. And captains aren't automatically pirate themed. If that counts as pirate influence, then a steam train in Western block will count as steampunk influence.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
It doesn't have to be artifact heavy, just heavily influenced, no need for another Mirrodin plane. Honestly Steampunks are typically Western in feel so it's not really all that far fetched to be a set. There are other games and stories that mash the fantasy element with steampunk fairly well, League of Legends is one, Deadlands was another setting.
I associate steampunk most with Victorian London-types of settings, a land of top hats, pocket watches, and steam-powered dirigibles.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
They were the same time period, 1880's. It wouldn't be hard to have both in the same set, Wild West being more "wild" (G/B/R) while the Victorian being the more "civilized" (W/U/B) aspects of the plane. Then have a spiritual aspect that loathes the mechanical comprising of more tribal (R/G/W)
RDW
Zoo
CoCo Elves
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
western? god, please not! i can't think of anything more far away from magic than this
Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons
ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
Western: I've always hated westerns. This wouldn't excite me in the least. I don't think it fits with Magic at all.
Trades
Pucatrade with me!
(Signature courtesy of Argetlam of Hakai Studios
A bonus side effect of messing with western tropes and mixing them up with Magic is that we could get representation of American Indians, Latin@s, and African Americans as cowboys and spellslingers. Magic's been really good about racial representation lately, and more diversity is always a good thing. It'd be nice to see the media tropes of Hollywood's Old West through a modern, fantasy lens- the white cowboy is pretty much an invention of film.
I dunno, I just think it'd be cool, but I also think there's fun tropes to work with and opportunities to be made. Heck, they could bring back the gold tokens from Theros as a mechanic, tie it into the gold rush.
Mallas, Notorious Outlaw 3BR
Planeswalker - Mallas
+1: ~ deals 2 damage to target player unless he or she discards a card.
-3: Destroy target artifact, creature, or land.
-8: You get an emblem with "Creatures you control have ' : This creature deals 1 damage to target creature or player.'"
4
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Im not a fan of western and guns theme. But I would be interested in a set focused on izzet steampunkness qualities.
Thanks for pointing that one out. That looks like a shoulder cannon. I agree that Izzet probably is the closest to having "guns" in the current lore.
And Izzet? Can't get enough of those guys, so I'm right with ya'll.
RDW
Zoo
CoCo Elves
And I have a
few morebunch of card designs inspired by Western flavor:Creature - Human Scout
W, : Tap target creature.
1/1
Dairy Cow W
Creature - Ox
, Tap an untapped creature you control: You gain 2 life.
0/3
Tied to the Tracks 2B
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant creature
At the beginning of your upkeep, enchanted creature's controller sacrifices it.
Cattle Rustler 2R
Creature - Human Rogue
When ~ enters the battlefield, untap target Ox and gain control of it until end of turn. It gains haste until end of turn.
2/2
Charging Bull 3R
Creature - Ox
Trample, haste
~ attacks each turn if able.
3/2
Howling Coyote 1R
Creature - Hound
When ~ enters the battlefield, target creature can't block this turn.
2/1
Prickly Cactus G
Creature - Plant
Defender
1/3
Fireslinger's Gauntlet 2
Artifact - Equipment
Whenever equipped creature attacks, it deals 1 damage to target creature or player.
Equip 2
Cowhand's Lasso 1
Artifact - Equipment
Equipped creature has " , Unattach ~ : Tap target creature."
Equip 1
Regarding the presence of a Native culture in the Western setting, would it be acceptable to substitute races like Centaurs or Coyote folk for human natives? And what about Minotaurs appearing in Western world, given that bulls are a common part of the Western flavor? Can't forget vulture Aven!
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
RDW
Zoo
CoCo Elves
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
http://outlawstar.wikia.com/wiki/Caster
http://outlawstar.wikia.com/wiki/Caster_shells
I see The Dark Tower cited. It combines the Western genre with science fiction and fantasy, seen in the presence of old technology that could harness a magical force known as the Prim. So the two, or three genres, are really compatible with one another. There's also the Malazan series, where you have magic and a race of theropods whose cities are colossal, mechanical constructions shaped like dragons. So steampunk, fantasy and the western combine easily enough.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Guns can certainly be justified flavorfully, but I think they remain something creative doesn't want in the game, for a number of reasons.
It doesn't devalue anything. You're breathing life into more of the same we've already seen countless times. Churning out sets that're simply "alternate" versions of the Western, or Steampunk, would simply be appealing to the lowest common denominator by checking off everyone's list of expectations from a set incorporating all the tropes associated with the Western, or all the tropes seen in Steampunk. I don't necessarily think a setting should be bound by a theme. After all, is our world defined by a single theme? Innistrad did have Drogskull Captain, by the way.
A setting should have a more focused theme, otherwise it's just another ironically generic mishmash of everything but the kitchen sink. Restrictions breed creativity, and one of the best restrictions is theme. And captains aren't automatically pirate themed. If that counts as pirate influence, then a steam train in Western block will count as steampunk influence.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
I personally would love to see a wild west themed magic block.