With the major focus that the Tarkir block has on the morph mechanic, I wonder if there shall be a card that allows a face-down card to be turned face up without paying its morph cost (or restore a face-down card that has no morph ability, at all), like a reverse Ixidron. I imagine that players who do not have decks with the morph mechanic would be very displeased to see that creature enter the battlefield, since there would be no way for them to turn their creatures face-up again (making Ixidron a horribly unfair and cheap card if I have ever seen one), so a reverse of that card would be very nice, indeed.
What does everyone else say about this?
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“Those who would trade their freedoms for security will have neither.”-Benjamin Franklin
“When the people fear the government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”-Thomas Jefferson
“A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of its user.”-Theodore Roosevelt
“Patriotism means to stand by one's country; it does not mean to stand by one's president.”-Theodore Roosevelt
There were cards like that in Onslaught block, Ixidor, Reality Sculptor, Skirk Alarmist, and kinda Break Open. I think it's telling that we haven't seen anything like that in Tarkir yet. It might just be that they're saving them for later in the block but it's clear on a big picture level that they're really thinking about morph mechanics and trying to make them obey a strict order this time. It's also interesting that we didn't see any of that in Time Spiral which also brought back morph, despite the presence of Ixidron that you note.
All of those cards are nice, but one is a one-time effect and the other two do not have morph themselves.
What I am envisioning is a creature with an ability that reads "when [cardname] enters the battlefield or is turned faced up, turn all face-down creatures face up." That way, there is never a situation in which a player is stuck with face-down creatures that cannot be turned face up again.
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“Those who would trade their freedoms for security will have neither.”-Benjamin Franklin
“When the people fear the government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”-Thomas Jefferson
“A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of its user.”-Theodore Roosevelt
“Patriotism means to stand by one's country; it does not mean to stand by one's president.”-Theodore Roosevelt
All of those cards are nice, but one is a one-time effect and the other two do not have morph themselves.
What I am envisioning is a creature with an ability that reads "when [cardname] enters the battlefield or is turned faced up, turn all face-down creatures face up." That way, there is never a situation in which a player is stuck with face-down creatures that cannot be turned face up again.
I mentioned the existing cards to note their absence since Onslaught. It may be incorrect to draw any inferences from that fact but it seems possible that they don't want to mess around in that area any more.
What about an enchantment that grants morph to all facedown creatures? Would that be feasible?
That technically is possible, but wouldn't really do anything in practice. Verifying whether a face-down creature can be turned face up via morph involves knowing whether the top face would have morph. An enchantment that gives face-down creatures morph gives morph to creatures as they are (face down), not when they are face up. As such, turning them face up as a special action would still be illegal.
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[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format Minimum deck size: 60 Maximum number of identical cards: 4 Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
What about an enchantment that grants morph to all facedown creatures? Would that be feasible?
That technically is possible, but wouldn't really do anything in practice. Verifying whether a face-down creature can be turned face up via morph involves knowing whether the top face would have morph. An enchantment that gives face-down creatures morph gives morph to creatures as they are (face down), not when they are face up. As such, turning them face up as a special action would still be illegal.
In other words, no it's not possible because the literal interpretation of "grant morph to all face-down creatures" doesn't do what you think it does. Ixidor is probably the closest they would come to that kind of effect.
What about an enchantment that grants morph to all facedown creatures? Would that be feasible?
That technically is possible, but wouldn't really do anything in practice. Verifying whether a face-down creature can be turned face up via morph involves knowing whether the top face would have morph. An enchantment that gives face-down creatures morph gives morph to creatures as they are (face down), not when they are face up. As such, turning them face up as a special action would still be illegal.
In other words, no it's not possible because the literal interpretation of "grant morph to all face-down creatures" doesn't do what you think it does. Ixidor is probably the closest they would come to that kind of effect.
I fail to see how that is the case; why can there not be a permanent effect that reads "each face-down creature that you control has morph. Its morph cost is equal to its mana cost minus 2." Can you explain to me, in detail, how that could not work?
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“Those who would trade their freedoms for security will have neither.”-Benjamin Franklin
“When the people fear the government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”-Thomas Jefferson
“A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of its user.”-Theodore Roosevelt
“Patriotism means to stand by one's country; it does not mean to stand by one's president.”-Theodore Roosevelt
[quote from="Bogardan Mage »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/speculation/baseless-speculation/579445-will-there-be-a-reverse-ixidron?comment=8"]I fail to see how that is the case; why can there not be a permanent effect that reads "each face-down creature that you control has morph. Its morph cost is equal to its mana cost minus 2." Can you explain to me, in detail, how that could not work?
702.36d If you have priority, you may turn a face-down permanent you control face up. This is a special action; it doesn’t use the stack (see rule 115). To do this, show all players what the permanent’s morph cost would be if it were face up, pay that cost, then turn the permanent face up. (If the permanent wouldn’t have a morph cost if it were face up, it can’t be turned face up this way.) The morph effect on it ends, and it regains its normal characteristics. Any abilities relating to the permanent entering the battlefield don’t trigger when it’s turned face up and don’t have any effect, because the permanent has already entered the battlefield.
Since the ability-adding effect applies to face-down creatures, not face-up creatures, the creature in question wouldn't have a morph cost when face-up (unless, of course, it initially had morph). Because of this, a face-down creature (assuming that it doesn't intrinsically have morph when it would be face-up) can't be turned face-up this way.
Giving morph to face-down creatures is possible. It would negate the bonus that a Muraganda Petroglyphs would give, so it's not quite as pointless as one would think.
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How to use card tags (please use them for everybody's sanity)
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format Minimum deck size: 60 Maximum number of identical cards: 4 Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
702.36d If you have priority, you may turn a face-down permanent you control face up. This is a special action; it doesn’t use the stack (see rule 115). To do this, show all players what the permanent’s morph cost would be if it were face up, pay that cost, then turn the permanent face up. (If the permanent wouldn’t have a morph cost if it were face up, it can’t be turned face up this way.) The morph effect on it ends, and it regains its normal characteristics. Any abilities relating to the permanent entering the battlefield don’t trigger when it’s turned face up and don’t have any effect, because the permanent has already entered the battlefield.
Since the ability-adding effect applies to face-down creatures, not face-up creatures, the creature in question wouldn't have a morph cost when face-up (unless, of course, it initially had morph). Because of this, a face-down creature (assuming that it doesn't intrinsically have morph when it would be face-up) can't be turned face-up this way.
Giving morph to face-down creatures is possible. It would negate the bonus that a Muraganda Petroglyphs would give, so it's not quite as pointless as one would think.
Thank you very much, but I still have not yet determined exactly how to give face-down creatures the ability to turn face-up if they do not already have morph costs. How could such an ability be worded?
Thank you very much, but I still have not yet determined exactly how to give face-down creatures the ability to turn face-up if they do not already have morph costs. How could such an ability be worded?
It would be worded as "2U: Turn target face-down creature face up." like it was the last time they did it. As I mentioned.
It would be worded as "2U: Turn target face-down creature face up." like it was the last time they did it. As I mentioned.
Yes, that makes sense, but the permanent that has that ability should itself have morph, to prevent it from being rendered powerless if it itself is somehow turned face-down.
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“Those who would trade their freedoms for security will have neither.”-Benjamin Franklin
“When the people fear the government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”-Thomas Jefferson
“A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of its user.”-Theodore Roosevelt
“Patriotism means to stand by one's country; it does not mean to stand by one's president.”-Theodore Roosevelt
Thank you very much, but I still have not yet determined exactly how to give face-down creatures the ability to turn face-up if they do not already have morph costs. How could such an ability be worded?
Since the "casting face-down" aspect of morph is completely irrelevant (the creature is already on the battlefield), and Since the turning face-up aspect of morph really only does anything when the creature is face-down, this means that once a creature is face-up, giving it morph doesn't accomplish much. Why not just give every creature morph, whether or not they're face-up or face-down?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
How to use card tags (please use them for everybody's sanity)
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format Minimum deck size: 60 Maximum number of identical cards: 4 Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
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What does everyone else say about this?
“When the people fear the government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”-Thomas Jefferson
“A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of its user.”-Theodore Roosevelt
“Patriotism means to stand by one's country; it does not mean to stand by one's president.”-Theodore Roosevelt
What I am envisioning is a creature with an ability that reads "when [cardname] enters the battlefield or is turned faced up, turn all face-down creatures face up." That way, there is never a situation in which a player is stuck with face-down creatures that cannot be turned face up again.
“When the people fear the government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”-Thomas Jefferson
“A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of its user.”-Theodore Roosevelt
“Patriotism means to stand by one's country; it does not mean to stand by one's president.”-Theodore Roosevelt
I mentioned the existing cards to note their absence since Onslaught. It may be incorrect to draw any inferences from that fact but it seems possible that they don't want to mess around in that area any more.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
“When the people fear the government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”-Thomas Jefferson
“A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of its user.”-Theodore Roosevelt
“Patriotism means to stand by one's country; it does not mean to stand by one's president.”-Theodore Roosevelt
That technically is possible, but wouldn't really do anything in practice. Verifying whether a face-down creature can be turned face up via morph involves knowing whether the top face would have morph. An enchantment that gives face-down creatures morph gives morph to creatures as they are (face down), not when they are face up. As such, turning them face up as a special action would still be illegal.
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format
Minimum deck size: 60
Maximum number of identical cards: 4
Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
In other words, no it's not possible because the literal interpretation of "grant morph to all face-down creatures" doesn't do what you think it does. Ixidor is probably the closest they would come to that kind of effect.
I fail to see how that is the case; why can there not be a permanent effect that reads "each face-down creature that you control has morph. Its morph cost is equal to its mana cost minus 2." Can you explain to me, in detail, how that could not work?
“When the people fear the government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”-Thomas Jefferson
“A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of its user.”-Theodore Roosevelt
“Patriotism means to stand by one's country; it does not mean to stand by one's president.”-Theodore Roosevelt
702.36d If you have priority, you may turn a face-down permanent you control face up. This is a special action; it doesn’t use the stack (see rule 115). To do this, show all players what the permanent’s morph cost would be if it were face up, pay that cost, then turn the permanent face up. (If the permanent wouldn’t have a morph cost if it were face up, it can’t be turned face up this way.) The morph effect on it ends, and it regains its normal characteristics. Any abilities relating to the permanent entering the battlefield don’t trigger when it’s turned face up and don’t have any effect, because the permanent has already entered the battlefield.
Since the ability-adding effect applies to face-down creatures, not face-up creatures, the creature in question wouldn't have a morph cost when face-up (unless, of course, it initially had morph). Because of this, a face-down creature (assuming that it doesn't intrinsically have morph when it would be face-up) can't be turned face-up this way.
Giving morph to face-down creatures is possible. It would negate the bonus that a Muraganda Petroglyphs would give, so it's not quite as pointless as one would think.
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format
Minimum deck size: 60
Maximum number of identical cards: 4
Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
Thank you very much, but I still have not yet determined exactly how to give face-down creatures the ability to turn face-up if they do not already have morph costs. How could such an ability be worded?
“When the people fear the government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”-Thomas Jefferson
“A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of its user.”-Theodore Roosevelt
“Patriotism means to stand by one's country; it does not mean to stand by one's president.”-Theodore Roosevelt
It would be worded as "2U: Turn target face-down creature face up." like it was the last time they did it. As I mentioned.
Yes, that makes sense, but the permanent that has that ability should itself have morph, to prevent it from being rendered powerless if it itself is somehow turned face-down.
“When the people fear the government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”-Thomas Jefferson
“A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of its user.”-Theodore Roosevelt
“Patriotism means to stand by one's country; it does not mean to stand by one's president.”-Theodore Roosevelt
Since the "casting face-down" aspect of morph is completely irrelevant (the creature is already on the battlefield), and Since the turning face-up aspect of morph really only does anything when the creature is face-down, this means that once a creature is face-up, giving it morph doesn't accomplish much. Why not just give every creature morph, whether or not they're face-up or face-down?
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format
Minimum deck size: 60
Maximum number of identical cards: 4
Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall