Probably an unrealistic (or broken) idea but what if there was a Fetch specifically for non basics -
along the lines of
Reliquary Grounds
Pay 1 life, Sacrifice Reliquary Grounds: You may search your library for a non basic land and place it on the battlefield.
If it would enter the battlefield tapped you mayy pay 2 life to have it enter untapped.
Thinking 1 life as per normal fetches + 2 life turns all lands that enter tapped into functional shocklands.
Can only have 4 in a deck
As you suggest, the card seems totally broken, especially in Legacy but also in Modern and probably in any plausible Standard environment. I wouldn't expect to see such an ability for less than 3, tap, and sac - and even that would probably be too good.
Also as written you could search for a second copy, then third, then fourth, and then finally another land - which could even be a regular fetch. Talk about a landfall enabler!
I'm pretty sure it would have to be "T, Pay X life, Sac this: Search for a nonbasic land and put it onto the battlefield tapped." A sort of Terramorpic Expanse variant for nonbasics. Not sure what the proper value of X is.
Sacred Foundary Step Lynx non-basic fetch this get all for non-basic fetch then a normal fetch and then land swing for 12 then bolt bolt. Leaving your opponent at 2 almost as good as infect.
Then there is tron...
Legacy would be interesting it could be morphed into who knows what...
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
I can't see a specifically non-basic hunting fetchland being printed. The amount of restrictions needed to be on it to ensure it wouldn't break any of the metagames, and given certain combo decks it would still be too good.
As you suggest, the card seems totally broken, especially in Legacy but also in Modern and probably in any plausible Standard environment. I wouldn't expect to see such an ability for less than 3, tap, and sac - and even that would probably be too good.
I think the 3 add on is fair, as that is the total cost/activation of Expedition Map. Slightly better as the ability is uncountable, but slightly worse because you can't split the cost, and thus unplayable in the early turns.
I would like to see fetches that only get you one type of land. Like
T: Pay 1 Life; You may search your library for a plains and put it onto the battlefield.
Cuts the productivity of the good fetches but still hits the lands we need for color fixing. Nine times out of ten this card is just as good in Esper, junk, and dega as marsh flats. As has been said allowing for fetching non basics would be completely broken without a huge cost because you could just fetch a fetch. Say their is a cycle of 10 as we know wizards is planning on going this route for the future. That gives you the option of putting u to 40 fetches in any one deck not counting the ones that already exist. Then this happens:
T1: Green source mana dork
T2: Lotus Cobrafetch, fetch for other fetches 19 times putting you at 1 last fetch hits eye of urgin, search and cast emrakul or anything else ridiculous you can do with 20 turn 2 mana of any color.
Yes this can be slowed by Burn or aggro but that didn't stop Channel-Fireball from being stupid.
I would like to see fetches that only get you one type of land. Like
T: Pay 1 Life; You may search your library for a plains and put it onto the battlefield.
Cuts the productivity of the good fetches but still hits the lands we need for color fixing. Nine times out of ten this card is just as good in Esper, junk, and dega as marsh flats. As has been said allowing for fetching non basics would be completely broken without a huge cost because you could just fetch a fetch. Say their is a cycle of 10 as we know wizards is planning on going this route for the future. That gives you the option of putting u to 40 fetches in any one deck not counting the ones that already exist. Then this happens:
T1: Green source mana dork
T2: Lotus Cobrafetch, fetch for other fetches 19 times putting you at 1 last fetch hits eye of urgin, search and cast emrakul or anything else ridiculous you can do with 20 turn 2 mana of any color.
Yes this can be slowed by Burn or aggro but that didn't stop Channel-Fireball from being stupid.
Why not just reprint the Mirage Fetchlands like Grasslands?
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"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
- H. L. Mencken
That ETBU ability is just insanely, disgustingly broken. Not just shocks, but plenty of utility nonbasics ETBT in order to be more balanced. Manlands, Mirage fetches, Ravnica karoos, Cloudpost, Kamigawa legendaries, Hideaway lands, hell, even Maze's End. And I'm sure I missed some.
The fact that the fetch itself ETBT is what keeps it from being at the same power level as the zen and Onslaught fetches. That's why it gets kicked down to uncommon. It looses some amount of power and then gets to e more common. It essentially means that the only decks who would want them are decks that don't want to play something turn 1. Completely useless by aggro and fast combo.Hell even control may want to brainstorm turn 1. Hence the reason windswept heath is literally 100 times more expensive than grassland with very small differences. Now if the drawback was that it only fetches 1 land type it means it would only be able to search 4 shocks and 1 basic instead of 7 shocks and 2 basics. This cuts its usefulness in 3 color decks. Because if you have a polluted delta in esper you can search Tundra, underground sea, and scrubland. Now if you have "Plains fetch" You can only fetch tundra and sea. This may be enough to keep it relatively cheap so it would hold the same position but be in reach for budget players without the need to crash the market on dual fetches. The drawback may be enough to drop it into papuer range and give them some better fixing. Not sure on that one though.
What about a fetch that found one of two kinds of basics and put them down untapped ie:
Warmish Tarn
T: Pay 1 life; sacrifice Warmish Tarn: Search your library for a basic Island or Basic Mountain and place it onto the battle field. Then shuffle your library
They could also always do fetches that would allow you to search for 3 different color land types, but force it to be basic.
Such as:
Bant Borderpost (idk)
Tap: Pay 1 life; search your library for a basic Forest, Plains, or Island an put that card into play. If you search your library this way, shuffle your library.
I think that is completely fare. Not broken, and wont hinder the current fetches.
I proposed the idea to a few people of something like this, which sorta fixes fetches:
Uncommon UW Fetch
T, sacrifice Uncommon UW Fetch: Add W or U to your mana pool.
When Uncommon UW Fetch is put into the graveyard from the battlefield, you may search your library for a basic Plains or basic Island.
Basically this prevents the fetch land from being "gold" in nature, and cannot fetch up other colors besides those of the lands color. Also, you could tack on "pay 1 life" and let it fetch non-basics, making it rare, but it would still hinder them being "gold" because you couldn't fetch up lands of different color, then use them that turn. Instead, you only get the colors the land produces.
Although, there is probably something inherently broken to this, that I haven't realized, because how it differs from fetch lands in a sense the fetching ability is triggered instead of activated.
Either the Fetch itself or the land it gets needs to enter tapped. As written you can play it turn 1, tap sac for a mana and then get a plains or island and tap it for mana meaning turn 1 you got 2 mana of either WW,UU, or WU.Play it turn 1 without a sac and another turn 2 and your at 4 of any combination. That's definitely higher than an uncommon. I would say have the basic enter tapped. Also the when it goes to the graveyard kinda makes me think they would be hesitant to print it because if you Armageddon with a board full of these you are way ahead. Make it 2 separate clauses something like:
Plentiful Lake
Land T,Sacrifice Plentiful Lake: Add W or U to your Mana pool. You gain 1 life T,Sacrifice Plentiful Lake: Search your library for a basic Plain or basic Island. Then shuffle your library.
You could do gain life for the entire cycle or you could do other effects, they loose one, look at the top card, you discard a card(espically cool for dredge), prevent 1 damage...A lot they could do.
zombie_sky_diver that looks cool might even be at the right level to be a common for papuer.
EDIT: trav_Ragnar i just realized that as written your card actually doesn't do anything with the land you find it just says find it. Pretty sure this would cause a tie because their ir no direction what to do after you find it. It doesn't go to your hand or the battlefield or even the graveyard. I had assumed when writing you meant it to go to battlefield.
Yeah, I apologize for all the typo mistakes, I was rushing to post that at work. I meant to say that the basic enters the battlefield tapped, and that when you do search for it you put it on the battlefield, tapped as stated.
How I would go about fixing these from breaking Mass LD effects is by making both effects apart of the same activation.
For example:
"T, Sacrifice Uncommon UW Fetch: Add W and U to your mana pool. Search your library for a basic plains or basics island and put it in onto the battlefield tapped. Then shuffle your library."
How I would go about fixing these from breaking Mass LD effects is by making both effects apart of the same activation.
For example:
"T, Sacrifice Uncommon UW Fetch: Add W and U to your mana pool. Search your library for a basic plains or basics island and put it in onto the battlefield tapped. Then shuffle your library."
This would work. Would be killer in limited as I'm sure this could be uncommon.
The card would have to involve you missing your next land drop or being a karoo land effect.
Like..
Slow Fetch Land
Land
Slow Fetch Land enters the battlefield tapped.
When Slow Fetch Land enters the battlefield, return a land you control to its owner's hand.
{T}, Pay 1 life, Sacrifice Slow Fetch Land: Search your library for a non-basic land card and put it onto the battlefield.
This is borderline balanced here and while it seems ridiculously weak the older formats would show just how unfair even this version could be.
I would like to see fetches that only get you one type of land. Like
T: Pay 1 Life; You may search your library for a plains and put it onto the battlefield.
Cuts the productivity of the good fetches but still hits the lands we need for color fixing. Nine times out of ten this card is just as good in Esper, junk, and dega as marsh flats. As has been said allowing for fetching non basics would be completely broken without a huge cost because you could just fetch a fetch. Say their is a cycle of 10 as we know wizards is planning on going this route for the future. That gives you the option of putting u to 40 fetches in any one deck not counting the ones that already exist. Then this happens:
T1: Green source mana dork
T2: Lotus Cobrafetch, fetch for other fetches 19 times putting you at 1 last fetch hits eye of urgin, search and cast emrakul or anything else ridiculous you can do with 20 turn 2 mana of any color.
Yes this can be slowed by Burn or aggro but that didn't stop Channel-Fireball from being stupid.
So you want a cycle of fetches that are strictly worse than the Onslaught/Zendikar fetches *and* the Mirage fetches? Huh, interesting.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
So you want a cycle of fetches that are strictly worse than the Onslaught/Zendikar fetches *and* the Mirage fetches? Huh, interesting.
I Would advocate for these only because they would be cheaper as a budget option. I would never say that they were better than the the ones that already exist just cheaper. Also I think the fact that they come in untapped makes this better than the mirage fetchess but worse than zen/onslaught.
So you want a cycle of fetches that are strictly worse than the Onslaught/Zendikar fetches *and* the Mirage fetches? Huh, interesting.
I Would advocate for these only because they would be cheaper as a budget option. I would never say that they were better than the the ones that already exist just cheaper. Also I think the fact that they come in untapped makes this better than the mirage fetchess but worse than zen/onslaught.
The fact that they not only cost life, but are also capable of only fetching one type of land (such as Plains) makes them strictly worse. Now, if they could fetch two kinds of land (like the existing Onslaught/zendikar ones, well... They'd be the zendikar/onslaught ones), or if they didn't cost life to use, they may be better, or at least equal to the mirage ones, but if they are what you suggested, they'd be very, very bad. They'd be terribad.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
So you want a cycle of fetches that are strictly worse than the Onslaught/Zendikar fetches *and* the Mirage fetches? Huh, interesting.
I Would advocate for these only because they would be cheaper as a budget option. I would never say that they were better than the the ones that already exist just cheaper. Also I think the fact that they come in untapped makes this better than the mirage fetchess but worse than zen/onslaught.
The fact that they not only cost life, but are also capable of only fetching one type of land (such as Plains) makes them strictly worse. Now, if they could fetch two kinds of land (like the existing Onslaught/zendikar ones, well... They'd be the zendikar/onslaught ones), or if they didn't cost life to use, they may be better, or at least equal to the mirage ones, but if they are what you suggested, they'd be very, very bad. They'd be terribad.
Here lets take this emample. You're playing Burn and for some reason or another you can't get a hold of the Zen/ onslaught fetchea. It comes down to either these lands or the mirage lands because your playing grim lavamancer and need the fuel. You decide to run Mountain Valley. Your opening hand has only mountian valley in it for lands. The deck can function on only one land because most of it costs 1 mana. But since mountian valley came in tapped you missed your 1 drop. No turn 1 Goblin Guide/vexing devil/lava spike for you. Now if you hit one of these lands it would have the same effect turn 1 for this mono colored deck as a normal zen fetch. Grab a dual/shock/or basic but only with red in it. Now your hitting you're turn 1 play.
Now the way they become worse is if say you are playing RUG Delver and you need to hit blue but you only have the green fetch in hand and for some reason the tropical islands have been removed from your deck. if the green fetch had been misty rainforest you would have been all set.
the same could be said for the swam fetch over marsh flats in pox. Still lands you turn 1 discard but is worse if you needed to keep up STPS white mana.
So you want a cycle of fetches that are strictly worse than the Onslaught/Zendikar fetches *and* the Mirage fetches? Huh, interesting.
I Would advocate for these only because they would be cheaper as a budget option. I would never say that they were better than the the ones that already exist just cheaper. Also I think the fact that they come in untapped makes this better than the mirage fetchess but worse than zen/onslaught.
The fact that they not only cost life, but are also capable of only fetching one type of land (such as Plains) makes them strictly worse. Now, if they could fetch two kinds of land (like the existing Onslaught/zendikar ones, well... They'd be the zendikar/onslaught ones), or if they didn't cost life to use, they may be better, or at least equal to the mirage ones, but if they are what you suggested, they'd be very, very bad. They'd be terribad.
Here lets take this emample. You're playing Burn and for some reason or another you can't get a hold of the Zen/ onslaught fetchea. It comes down to either these lands or the mirage lands because your playing grim lavamancer and need the fuel. You decide to run Mountain Valley. Your opening hand has only mountian valley in it for lands. The deck can function on only one land because most of it costs 1 mana. But since mountian valley came in tapped you missed your 1 drop. No turn 1 Goblin Guide/vexing devil/lava spike for you. Now if you hit one of these lands it would have the same effect turn 1 for this mono colored deck as a normal zen fetch. Grab a dual/shock/or basic but only with red in it. Now your hitting you're turn 1 play.
Now the way they become worse is if say you are playing RUG Delver and you need to hit blue but you only have the green fetch in hand and for some reason the tropical islands have been removed from your deck. if the green fetch had been misty rainforest you would have been all set.
the same could be said for the swam fetch over marsh flats in pox. Still lands you turn 1 discard but is worse if you needed to keep up STPS white mana.
If I was playing burn, I wouldn't be using fetches in the first place. >.<
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
If I was playing burn, I wouldn't be using fetches in the first place. >.<
Apparently you haven't played with grim lavamancer. The ability to eat your own graveyard for reusable damage is a well documented play. Plus he kills his long lost cousin Deathrite Shaman, but shaman can't target him. Point is, filling your yard for lavamancer to eat is proven good and one of the easiest ways to do it is fetches. Most burn decks i've seen play 4-8 red fetches so they can get him shocking to win the game.
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along the lines of
Reliquary Grounds
Pay 1 life, Sacrifice Reliquary Grounds: You may search your library for a non basic land and place it on the battlefield.
If it would enter the battlefield tapped you mayy pay 2 life to have it enter untapped.
Thinking 1 life as per normal fetches + 2 life turns all lands that enter tapped into functional shocklands.
Can only have 4 in a deck
Thoughts or fixes?
Also as written you could search for a second copy, then third, then fourth, and then finally another land - which could even be a regular fetch. Talk about a landfall enabler!
Then there is tron...
Legacy would be interesting it could be morphed into who knows what...
I loathe creatures! Praise Prison and Land Destruction!
My Peasant Cube (looking for feedback)
The value of fetching basics is really small compared to nonbasics.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
I think the 3 add on is fair, as that is the total cost/activation of Expedition Map. Slightly better as the ability is uncountable, but slightly worse because you can't split the cost, and thus unplayable in the early turns.
T: Pay 1 Life; You may search your library for a plains and put it onto the battlefield.
Cuts the productivity of the good fetches but still hits the lands we need for color fixing. Nine times out of ten this card is just as good in Esper, junk, and dega as marsh flats. As has been said allowing for fetching non basics would be completely broken without a huge cost because you could just fetch a fetch. Say their is a cycle of 10 as we know wizards is planning on going this route for the future. That gives you the option of putting u to 40 fetches in any one deck not counting the ones that already exist. Then this happens:
T1: Green source mana dork
T2: Lotus Cobrafetch, fetch for other fetches 19 times putting you at 1 last fetch hits eye of urgin, search and cast emrakul or anything else ridiculous you can do with 20 turn 2 mana of any color.
Yes this can be slowed by Burn or aggro but that didn't stop Channel-Fireball from being stupid.
Why not just reprint the Mirage Fetchlands like Grasslands?
- H. L. Mencken
French Duel Commander
WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR
RUG Maelstrom Wanderer RUG
Warmish Tarn
T: Pay 1 life; sacrifice Warmish Tarn: Search your library for a basic Island or Basic Mountain and place it onto the battle field. Then shuffle your library
LETS DO IT!!!
They could also always do fetches that would allow you to search for 3 different color land types, but force it to be basic.
Such as:
Bant Borderpost (idk)
Tap: Pay 1 life; search your library for a basic Forest, Plains, or Island an put that card into play. If you search your library this way, shuffle your library.
I think that is completely fare. Not broken, and wont hinder the current fetches.
EDIT: I didnt mean to put tapped.
Uncommon UW Fetch
T, sacrifice Uncommon UW Fetch: Add W or U to your mana pool.
When Uncommon UW Fetch is put into the graveyard from the battlefield, you may search your library for a basic Plains or basic Island.
Basically this prevents the fetch land from being "gold" in nature, and cannot fetch up other colors besides those of the lands color. Also, you could tack on "pay 1 life" and let it fetch non-basics, making it rare, but it would still hinder them being "gold" because you couldn't fetch up lands of different color, then use them that turn. Instead, you only get the colors the land produces.
Although, there is probably something inherently broken to this, that I haven't realized, because how it differs from fetch lands in a sense the fetching ability is triggered instead of activated.
Plentiful Lake
Land
T,Sacrifice Plentiful Lake: Add W or U to your Mana pool. You gain 1 life
T,Sacrifice Plentiful Lake: Search your library for a basic Plain or basic Island. Then shuffle your library.
You could do gain life for the entire cycle or you could do other effects, they loose one, look at the top card, you discard a card(espically cool for dredge), prevent 1 damage...A lot they could do.
zombie_sky_diver that looks cool might even be at the right level to be a common for papuer.
EDIT: trav_Ragnar i just realized that as written your card actually doesn't do anything with the land you find it just says find it. Pretty sure this would cause a tie because their ir no direction what to do after you find it. It doesn't go to your hand or the battlefield or even the graveyard. I had assumed when writing you meant it to go to battlefield.
For example:
"T, Sacrifice Uncommon UW Fetch: Add W and U to your mana pool. Search your library for a basic plains or basics island and put it in onto the battlefield tapped. Then shuffle your library."
This would work. Would be killer in limited as I'm sure this could be uncommon.
Like..
Slow Fetch Land
Land
Slow Fetch Land enters the battlefield tapped.
When Slow Fetch Land enters the battlefield, return a land you control to its owner's hand.
{T}, Pay 1 life, Sacrifice Slow Fetch Land: Search your library for a non-basic land card and put it onto the battlefield.
This is borderline balanced here and while it seems ridiculously weak the older formats would show just how unfair even this version could be.
Feel free to bid on my cards here!
So you want a cycle of fetches that are strictly worse than the Onslaught/Zendikar fetches *and* the Mirage fetches? Huh, interesting.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
I Would advocate for these only because they would be cheaper as a budget option. I would never say that they were better than the the ones that already exist just cheaper. Also I think the fact that they come in untapped makes this better than the mirage fetchess but worse than zen/onslaught.
The fact that they not only cost life, but are also capable of only fetching one type of land (such as Plains) makes them strictly worse. Now, if they could fetch two kinds of land (like the existing Onslaught/zendikar ones, well... They'd be the zendikar/onslaught ones), or if they didn't cost life to use, they may be better, or at least equal to the mirage ones, but if they are what you suggested, they'd be very, very bad. They'd be terribad.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
Here lets take this emample. You're playing Burn and for some reason or another you can't get a hold of the Zen/ onslaught fetchea. It comes down to either these lands or the mirage lands because your playing grim lavamancer and need the fuel. You decide to run Mountain Valley. Your opening hand has only mountian valley in it for lands. The deck can function on only one land because most of it costs 1 mana. But since mountian valley came in tapped you missed your 1 drop. No turn 1 Goblin Guide/vexing devil/lava spike for you. Now if you hit one of these lands it would have the same effect turn 1 for this mono colored deck as a normal zen fetch. Grab a dual/shock/or basic but only with red in it. Now your hitting you're turn 1 play.
Now the way they become worse is if say you are playing RUG Delver and you need to hit blue but you only have the green fetch in hand and for some reason the tropical islands have been removed from your deck. if the green fetch had been misty rainforest you would have been all set.
the same could be said for the swam fetch over marsh flats in pox. Still lands you turn 1 discard but is worse if you needed to keep up STPS white mana.
If I was playing burn, I wouldn't be using fetches in the first place. >.<
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
Apparently you haven't played with grim lavamancer. The ability to eat your own graveyard for reusable damage is a well documented play. Plus he kills his long lost cousin Deathrite Shaman, but shaman can't target him. Point is, filling your yard for lavamancer to eat is proven good and one of the easiest ways to do it is fetches. Most burn decks i've seen play 4-8 red fetches so they can get him shocking to win the game.