I don't see how Jace Beleren could be considered too powerful. You play him on turn 3 and either give your opponent a card they can use before you can use yours or you draw a card and he's dispatched in any number of ways on your opponents next turn. Then again, I'm just biased because Beleren has always been my favorite version of Jace and my favorite deck revolves around him.
keep in mind you're talking about having him in standard, and jace's group hug ability is +2 loyalty. thats a 5 loyalty walker at the end of your third turn.
Uhhhh yeah, we already have Ashiok, so why is +2 to 5 loyalty so horrible?
If Jace is the blue walker in M15 then he will be due for a new version.
Jace the Guildpact seems possible... but would they tie the core set so closely to ravinca?
It doesn't seem like the coreset walkers are suppose to connect to there ongoing stories very much. But rather to be evergreen representations of them.
For instance I don't think that Lilliana of Veil or Sorin, Lord of Innistrad would make it into a coreset.
Taking what we know right now, I could honestly see:
W: ??? U: NOT Memory Adept B: Garruk, the Fearsome R: Chandra, Pyromaster G: New Green Walker (Maybe a returning character in monogreen?)
As far as W and U go, Jace will be in it, but I don't think it'll be Jace, Memory Adept. I think it'll probably be the secondary new walker. If not that, I could even see them doing what they did with M12 and putting Jace, Architect of Thought along with Gideon, Champion of Justice into it. And honestly, I couldn't care less what they do with those anyway.
Black is a different story though. We know that core set PWs don't USUALLY tie into the story at all, but hear me out. We know that Garruk is the face of the set and that always means a new card. We also know he looks strangely dark in the promo art, probably due to the veil-curse. We know that last we saw him, he was veil-cursed and being taken to Avacyn. The biggest thing we can take away from what we know about him is that the veil-curse has had such a huge impact on him that it's actually compromising his (color)identity. He began turning B when we last saw him, and I think they might just make him monoB. His unique brand of B magic hinted to on his card (sacrificial stuffs) would definitely be a nice change from discard and life drain. It would also give them a chance to introduce a new monoG walker, whether its a returning character (Nissa? Domri maybe?) or a new one (unlikely though).
They could just introduce a new Blue walker like a Merfolk, Sphinx, or Vedalken.
As cool as that would be, I have a feeling that they probably won't put any non-human PWs in core sets anymore, Due to humans being more relatable and thus, more attractive to new players. And yes, that does mean taking Ajani out too, wgich I think they could do. As far as ideal core PW characters goes, I think Elspeth is the best choice. Gideon is a good one too, but I don't think his jumping-into-battle schtick would be ideal for a core set, as it might be confusing to new players (And yea I know that's probably total bs, but I'm trying to think the same way WotC usually thinks). I think Jace is pobably gonna stick around (unfortunately).
For instance I don't think that Lilliana of Veil or Sorin, Lord of Innistrad would make it into a coreset.
Lilliana of the Veil was originally in M14; she was cut last minute for developmental reasons. Presumably because she would have made Monoblack absolutely ridiculous.
Really? Like really? Any source to back up this claim? I searched online and did not find anything suggesting this.
It was on MaRo's tumblr a few months ago, but he seems to have deleted it, as he is wont to do when he thinks he's said something he shouldn't have. I believe someone was asking him about reprinting Liliana, of the Dark Realms in M14 after her lukewarm reception, and he admitted it was originally supposed to be LotV, but she was cut last minute for developmental reasons.
NOOOOOO! WE ARE NOT GETTING RID OF AJANI! HE IS TOO AMAZING AT THE KITCHEN TABLE!
also, knight-errant was kinda broken
and now on to the actual topic
I honestly don't think they will be retiring memory adept any time soon. he is balanced in standard, and honestly, all the pw are op in limited, so don't complain.
I think they may make a new Liliana next year, but I don't think they'll change any of the other walkers
Lol at Jace Beleren too strong. There's a reason why he's not even seeing play in Modern. He'll just be powerful in standard, nothing more.
I believe Jace, the Guildpact, as many of you are referring to is Jace, Architect of Thought. He's the most balanced of the Jaces (other than Jace Beleren).
Also, let there be some enlightenment for Wizards... Jace, Memory Adept is the worst designed walker for a limited environment. Utterly ruinous.
Small aside, they would probably do 6 walkers like what they did with M13. That was a good set.
It doesn't seem like the coreset walkers are suppose to connect to there ongoing stories very much. But rather to be evergreen representations of them.
keep in mind you're talking about having him in standard, and jace's group hug ability is +2 loyalty. thats a 5 loyalty walker at the end of your third turn.
It doesn't seem like the coreset walkers are suppose to connect to there ongoing stories very much. But rather to be evergreen representations of them.
keep in mind you're talking about having him in standard, and jace's group hug ability is +2 loyalty. thats a 5 loyalty walker at the end of your third turn.
We already have Ashiok.
But his veil cursed nature wasn't relevant in his Call of Beast version. I'm assuming you mean the m15 promo art?
Maybe there going to let the coreset be a closer tie to the current storylines
Have you seen the new Bunko toys? They are making a lot of Nissa. Might be new Green PW in M15. And Garruk looks very grey. Couldbe a new black version.
i think jace will definitely be in m15 as the most recent uncharted realms confirmed that the guildpact doesnt permanently bind him to ravnica. it will either be a new version or aot. i dont think it will be memory adept because (so far) no planeswalker has had more than 3 printings (not counting precons, etc). i also feel that jace will have a main part in garruk's m15 story (also because of the uncharted realms story) so that also makes me think it might be a new jace. so we will probably get Ajani Caller, new Jace, new Garruk, and Chandra Pyromaster but i really cant figure out what is going on with black and green or possible extra walkers. i'd like LOTV to be in there but that might be wishful thinking, she's probably more likely in mm2.
Keep in mind we are playing in a format where someone can play multiple creatures or a devoted monster on turn two with Nykthos. I'm pretty sure Beleren would be fine. Yeah it would be good, but I don't think it's as overpowered as you imagine, considering it IS a group hug ability, and your opponents are drawing cards as well.
Of course, Magic and its writers/creative directors will not be so strict on themselves regarding a storyline/character.
Jace is the face of Magic, take it or leave it. I can accept it, but I probably can't accept another experience with Jace, Memory Adept. If said card is not in future sets, I think limited aficionados like me can breathe a little easier.
It gives me a glimmer of faith in Wizards (that they do listen). lol
I also agree with creedmoor, Beleren is perfect for roguebuilders and control players. Lastly, it does not make limited games oppressive. However, I would think Architect of Thought would be the better choice. He's the most balanced of the Jaces IMO.
sure, it can be done. its also fallen out of favour because it's long proven that barfing your whole hand out on turn 2 is not conducive to winning the game unless it wins you the game on the following turn. the same also stands that beleren is playable on turn 2. Beleren has one of the earliest ultimates of all planeswalkers and at that it is very strong.
also, you're assuming that beleren is just a group hug walker. you will typically only +2 jace when you're in a safe enough position. otherwise you're perfectly fine to -1 him 3 times or fog a spell for a turn. even 3 mana draw 1 card and fog 1 spell is very strong in standard. the point is that at a minimum, beleren will always draw you a card and eat a spell/fog a creature. that is not situationally good like AoTs abilities, it is always good.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard:
Nothing Modern:
Cruel Control, UR Delver, RUG midrange, Akroma's Elfmorial EDH:
Animar, Chainer, Derevi the Stonehewer Mystic, Nekusar
Uhhhh yeah, we already have Ashiok, so why is +2 to 5 loyalty so horrible?
WB Eldrazi Processors BW
Legacy:
WUBRGLandless DredgeGRBUW
EDH:
BGMeren of Clan Nel TothGB
WUBrago, King Eternal (Budget!)UW
Wasn't Lilianna in the last one?
W: ???
U: NOT Memory Adept
B: Garruk, the Fearsome
R: Chandra, Pyromaster
G: New Green Walker (Maybe a returning character in monogreen?)
As far as W and U go, Jace will be in it, but I don't think it'll be Jace, Memory Adept. I think it'll probably be the secondary new walker. If not that, I could even see them doing what they did with M12 and putting Jace, Architect of Thought along with Gideon, Champion of Justice into it. And honestly, I couldn't care less what they do with those anyway.
Chandra, Pyromaster is fine and has no reason to change right now.
Black is a different story though. We know that core set PWs don't USUALLY tie into the story at all, but hear me out. We know that Garruk is the face of the set and that always means a new card. We also know he looks strangely dark in the promo art, probably due to the veil-curse. We know that last we saw him, he was veil-cursed and being taken to Avacyn. The biggest thing we can take away from what we know about him is that the veil-curse has had such a huge impact on him that it's actually compromising his (color)identity. He began turning B when we last saw him, and I think they might just make him monoB. His unique brand of B magic hinted to on his card (sacrificial stuffs) would definitely be a nice change from discard and life drain. It would also give them a chance to introduce a new monoG walker, whether its a returning character (Nissa? Domri maybe?) or a new one (unlikely though).
Anyway, that's my radical opinion of the day.
As cool as that would be, I have a feeling that they probably won't put any non-human PWs in core sets anymore, Due to humans being more relatable and thus, more attractive to new players. And yes, that does mean taking Ajani out too, wgich I think they could do. As far as ideal core PW characters goes, I think Elspeth is the best choice. Gideon is a good one too, but I don't think his jumping-into-battle schtick would be ideal for a core set, as it might be confusing to new players (And yea I know that's probably total bs, but I'm trying to think the same way WotC usually thinks). I think Jace is pobably gonna stick around (unfortunately).
Lilliana of the Veil was originally in M14; she was cut last minute for developmental reasons. Presumably because she would have made Monoblack absolutely ridiculous.
It was on MaRo's tumblr a few months ago, but he seems to have deleted it, as he is wont to do when he thinks he's said something he shouldn't have. I believe someone was asking him about reprinting Liliana, of the Dark Realms in M14 after her lukewarm reception, and he admitted it was originally supposed to be LotV, but she was cut last minute for developmental reasons.
There has only ever been one broken planeswalker: Jace, the Mind Sculptor.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
I believe Jace, the Guildpact, as many of you are referring to is Jace, Architect of Thought. He's the most balanced of the Jaces (other than Jace Beleren).
Also, let there be some enlightenment for Wizards... Jace, Memory Adept is the worst designed walker for a limited environment. Utterly ruinous.
Small aside, they would probably do 6 walkers like what they did with M13. That was a good set.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Garruk seems to still be veil-cursed.
We already have Ashiok.
But his veil cursed nature wasn't relevant in his Call of Beast version. I'm assuming you mean the m15 promo art?
Maybe there going to let the coreset be a closer tie to the current storylines
Yes.
Caller of Beasts was a disappointment because of that. I would love for the core sets to keep continuity.
Elspeth, KE/Gideon Jura
Jace Beleren
Lili of the Veil
Chandra, Pyromaster
New Nissa
GB Garruk
Da metal man needs sum luv.
I'm Playing
New Challenge Everyday
Kank'sPremiumBlend
Jace, AoT (8/10)
Chanrda, Pyromaster (6/10_)
New Garruk (?/10) even though we had a new one in m14
Liliana otDR (2/10)
Ajani, something (?/10)
Let's hope that the new design makes change their mind and print better walkers for m15
Look to the bloodlust deepest scar
Look to the scattering Brythonic uprising
For this be the wall of Johnny Guitar
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
Jace is the face of Magic, take it or leave it. I can accept it, but I probably can't accept another experience with Jace, Memory Adept. If said card is not in future sets, I think limited aficionados like me can breathe a little easier.
It gives me a glimmer of faith in Wizards (that they do listen). lol
I also agree with creedmoor, Beleren is perfect for roguebuilders and control players. Lastly, it does not make limited games oppressive. However, I would think Architect of Thought would be the better choice. He's the most balanced of the Jaces IMO.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
also, you're assuming that beleren is just a group hug walker. you will typically only +2 jace when you're in a safe enough position. otherwise you're perfectly fine to -1 him 3 times or fog a spell for a turn. even 3 mana draw 1 card and fog 1 spell is very strong in standard. the point is that at a minimum, beleren will always draw you a card and eat a spell/fog a creature. that is not situationally good like AoTs abilities, it is always good.
Nothing
Modern:
Cruel Control, UR Delver, RUG midrange, Akroma's Elfmorial
EDH:
Animar, Chainer, Derevi the Stonehewer Mystic, Nekusar
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries