So if you DO NOTHING but go land, pass turn land pass turn, Necro,
sure your in a rough spot.. but lets say you drop 2 creatures on turns 1 and 2 just to chump or even trade up hell typhoid rats even works a little
Now were looking at paying 4-7 life going to around 12 with hopefully a dude on the board and now the winning cards likely in your hand
thats why it wins you the game, As long as you Do SOMETHING to stay alive on turns 1 and 2 necro probably wins you the game
If you drop the chumps on turns 1 and 2 then your opponent is doing whatever the hell he feels like for 3-4 turns. 3-4 turns to win, even if your opponent has a few chumps out, is more than doable if your opponent is already giving up life to draw cards that he can't use until his next turn. And let's say you drop 5 life and pick up 5 good cards. Turn 4 comes, you have 4 mana to do what you've been gearing up for. Your opponent has been working your ribcage for 3-4 turns already. But let's say you get out a great creature on that 4th turn. How hard is it for most decks to get rid of 1 creature before declaring attackers? Now you're left with a hand full of great cards and no mana to do **** about ****.
It's a good card, like I said. It is not a win-con.
The power of Necropotence isn't really realized in standard. What you need is fast mana like, say, Lotus Petal, Dark Ritual, Chrome Mox, etc. What it's great for is setting up some kind of combo like casting a bunch of mana generating spells followed up by a storm spell like Tendrils of Agony or a deck with almost no land and Goblin Charbelcher.
In standard, you'd have to run it in either a controllish deck where you use it to refill your hand for cheap late game or in a deck with a ton of low cost spells so you can abuse the fact you're drawing a bunch of cards a turn. It's a strong card, but it needs a really specific deck.
I've never put too much thought into it, but why is Necropotence considered so good? And not just good, but good enough to be banned/restricted?
Because the drawback of paying life was easily counteracted and negated or even the win condition. Draw 5-7 cards, Drain Life for 4. Sac lands to Zuran Orb you don't need because of Dark Rituals or Lotus Petal's to keep you out of lethal range. It didn't matter what your opponent did because your deck not only had answers but a reliable way to draw those answers no matter what.
Look up 'Black Summer'.
There were no other decks at the time. You either ran Necro to win, or you ran Necro to beat Necro. As a Black Magic player, it was a glorious time
Those decks have the same problem as so many other gimmick decks- they rely on the God hand just to get started. If you don't have the God hand then you're almost guaranteed to lose.
Those decks have the same problem as so many other gimmick decks- they rely on the God hand just to get started. If you don't have the God hand then you're almost guaranteed to lose.
You're saying Necro-decks were a gimmick? There was no God hand with Necro. Every hand was a God hand. Seriously. Stop talking about something you know nothing about.
It's hard to imagine this being broken in Standard. That said, the prospect of putting Necropotence permanently in Modern (short of banhammer) should give somebody pause.
we could argue the power of Necropotence in various environments all day, but the more relevant question, imo, is: why you would read a quote from MaRo saying "i would not expect X anytime soon," and then go make a thread speculating that X will happen soon?
It's a strong card, but it needs a really specific deck.
My thoughts exactly.
Necropotence is the deck. You don't need an existing, narrow deck to use Necropotence. You take Necropotence, and build a deck that can win off a 3-mana draw 20, and you have a working Necro deck. Rituals and fast mana make it an auto win, but there is no other card that gives so many cards for so little effort. You basically get exactly what you want right now. If you want life gain, you'll draw into it. If you want cantrips or mana, you'll draw into it.
What about functional reprints? Whispering Madness is basically Windfall, and Reforge the Soul is basically Wheel of Fortune. There's also Jace's Archivist which is basically a reusable Windfall.
All of those cards take more to set up. Whispering madness requires an extra black, Reforge needs a topdeck or 2 more mana, Archivist needs you to untap. Combo decks require efficient use of mana and time in order to be consistent, and these cards work against that goal.
Necropotence is in a different category all together, because you get your mana efficiency after you cast it. It's the "pay 1 life" that makes Necropotence cheap. If it was, say, "pay 4 life", then it might not be so broken.
Why would they reprint a card Banned in Legacy? They'd have to ban it in Modern preemptively and likely it would end up banned in Standard, because I can't see how it wouldn't be broken. This is a From the Vault reprint at best.
Why would they reprint a card Banned in Legacy? They'd have to ban it in Modern preemptively and likely it would end up banned in Standard, because I can't see how it wouldn't be broken. This is a From the Vault reprint at best.
Those decks have the same problem as so many other gimmick decks- they rely on the God hand just to get started. If you don't have the God hand then you're almost guaranteed to lose.
I played standard when Necro was legal.
Necropotence was all that was required to win. if your opponent didn't counter it, it was game over.
Necropotence was all that was required to win. if your opponent didn't counter it, it was game over.
I was playing back then too. I never used the card(I didn't use black back then) but I played plenty of people who did. It's not all that's required to win. You need to have Dark Ritual and Necropotence in your opening hand and have a deck built around guaranteeing a win-con before you help your opponent kill you by turn 3 or 4. It's a great help, but you guys need to stop being so hyperbolic.
I was playing back then too. I never used the card(I didn't use black back then) but I played plenty of people who did. It's not all that's required to win. You need to have Dark Ritual and Necropotence in your opening hand and have a deck built around guaranteeing a win-con before you help your opponent kill you by turn 3 or 4. It's a great help, but you guys need to stop being so hyperbolic.
you would design a deck running necropotence any other way?
i was playing back then too. it didn't have to come down turn off a dark ritual to be brutal and win you the game. it draws you answers, it draws you threats. all it has to do is resolve and stick around for a turn.
While not using 100% direct language, he did indeed dismiss the possibility of it ever being reprinted. Any other interpretation is nothing more than wishful thinking.
Necropotence is so busted, it's replacements are so busted. (There is a reason this stuff is restricted in Vintage and banned in Legacy).
Any card on the Legacy ban list due to power level isn't coming back to standard.
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
Necropotence is never coming back, but some of it's replacements, like Greed, are reasonable cards in any format.
Greed requires both a mana and life investment. Thus it is actually harder to use. (It was actually printed before Necropotence)
Compare to say Griselbrand who instantly went into nearly every re-animator strat known mostly for his busted draw 7 for free ability.
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
I was playing back then too. I never used the card(I didn't use black back then) but I played plenty of people who did. It's not all that's required to win. You need to have Dark Ritual and Necropotence in your opening hand and have a deck built around guaranteeing a win-con before you help your opponent kill you by turn 3 or 4. It's a great help, but you guys need to stop being so hyperbolic.
Not really. You only needed Necropotence or a tutor. You certainly didn't need both. As long as you were able to play hymn to tourach or sink hole turn 2 you were pretty much golden. You were also playing lotus petal and dark ritual, so you'd often have the mana accel you needed on turns 1 or 2.
It's kinda funny that it only started to dominate once black vise got banned though.
But yeah, it's not getting reprinted in a standard legal deck.
I was playing back then too. I never used the card(I didn't use black back then) but I played plenty of people who did. It's not all that's required to win. You need to have Dark Ritual and Necropotence in your opening hand and have a deck built around guaranteeing a win-con before you help your opponent kill you by turn 3 or 4. It's a great help, but you guys need to stop being so hyperbolic.
If you played back then like you said, then you would know why. It was every where. It won everything. It didn't have to come down turn 1 or 2 or even 3. It just needed to land. Whenever it landed that was usually game. If it turned into a liability than you Nevinyrral's Disk the playing field and started over, usually sacc'ing lands to your Zuran Orb to get your life total back up.
Also, just to point out, any deck NOT built around a win condition is a poorly constructed deck. You keep bringing that up but seriously, that is the poorest argument you can make. Necro wasn't necessarily the win condition, it got you what you needed to win when you needed it. And it hardly was dropped turn one. Turn one-three was all about Hymn to Tourach, Sinkhole, and Hypnotic Specter. What can your opponent do with no hand or lands? If they somehow did, you Necro and draw until you find the answer. That is why Necro was so strong.
When the game turns into Deck A vs Decks to beat Deck A, the format is degenerate and something needs to be done. That's why Necro is banned, it turned Magic into Necro vs Necro or -anti Necro. The only deck that could really beat Necro consistently was Stasis which is an even more degenerate deck.
Yeah, necropotentce is broken at three,six, and seven mana. I don't think they'll bring it back down to three.
Could be fun though!
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Some facts of magic:
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
There is not enough support in standard to make BBBNecropotence broken. Period. There is no Hymn to Tourach, Nevinyrral's Disk, Dark Ritual, or Hypnotic Specter. There is no mana acceleration that you can draw into and then always have an answer for everything. Stop talking like it can magically break the format without good black cards to help it.
Griselbrand sees some play because you can cheat him out with Unburial Rites and to a lesser extent because a lifelink swing can fuel the draw. The only other time he sees play in standard is in MBC, which is winning how many tournaments?
If they did print Necro in standard, what do you think it looks like? Turn 1, duress; turn 2, devour flesh or something; turn 3, necro; turn 4, don't actually need another card -> cast devour flesh; turn 5, start drawing, oh snap I only have five mana, what am I supposed to do?; etc.
Finally, if Blizzard did reprint Necro, they would obviously take out any particularly broken interactions or would undermine black decks that would use Necro. For example, they might take Mutilate out of the core set.
The right answer here isn't that hard:
1. There's no reason from what MaRo said to think necro is coming back soon.
2. However, it is true that necro has much less stellar support in standard today than what it has in other formats. Further, WotC could exercise extra care in the standard cardpool around necro.
3. Modern would be a problem. Lots of mana fixing means people could play it in multicolor decks more easily. On the other hand, it's a fast format that control rarely dominates, so it's tough to say exactly what would happen. In short, a headache but not impossible.
4. Hence, WotC could do it, but there's no reason to think they will.
The right answer is not: "OMGzorz necro so good never reprint."
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So if you DO NOTHING but go land, pass turn land pass turn, Necro,
sure your in a rough spot.. but lets say you drop 2 creatures on turns 1 and 2 just to chump or even trade up hell typhoid rats even works a little
Now were looking at paying 4-7 life going to around 12 with hopefully a dude on the board and now the winning cards likely in your hand
thats why it wins you the game, As long as you Do SOMETHING to stay alive on turns 1 and 2 necro probably wins you the game
If you drop the chumps on turns 1 and 2 then your opponent is doing whatever the hell he feels like for 3-4 turns. 3-4 turns to win, even if your opponent has a few chumps out, is more than doable if your opponent is already giving up life to draw cards that he can't use until his next turn. And let's say you drop 5 life and pick up 5 good cards. Turn 4 comes, you have 4 mana to do what you've been gearing up for. Your opponent has been working your ribcage for 3-4 turns already. But let's say you get out a great creature on that 4th turn. How hard is it for most decks to get rid of 1 creature before declaring attackers? Now you're left with a hand full of great cards and no mana to do **** about ****.
It's a good card, like I said. It is not a win-con.
In standard, you'd have to run it in either a controllish deck where you use it to refill your hand for cheap late game or in a deck with a ton of low cost spells so you can abuse the fact you're drawing a bunch of cards a turn. It's a strong card, but it needs a really specific deck.
My thoughts exactly.
Because the drawback of paying life was easily counteracted and negated or even the win condition. Draw 5-7 cards, Drain Life for 4. Sac lands to Zuran Orb you don't need because of Dark Rituals or Lotus Petal's to keep you out of lethal range. It didn't matter what your opponent did because your deck not only had answers but a reliable way to draw those answers no matter what.
Look up 'Black Summer'.
There were no other decks at the time. You either ran Necro to win, or you ran Necro to beat Necro. As a Black Magic player, it was a glorious time
BUG Reanimator
BWG Nic-Fit
BGR Punishing Nic-Fit
You're saying Necro-decks were a gimmick? There was no God hand with Necro. Every hand was a God hand. Seriously. Stop talking about something you know nothing about.
BUG Reanimator
BWG Nic-Fit
BGR Punishing Nic-Fit
...
There's that irony thing I keep hearing about.
What about functional reprints? Whispering Madness is basically Windfall, and Reforge the Soul is basically Wheel of Fortune. There's also Jace's Archivist which is basically a reusable Windfall.
Necropotence is the deck. You don't need an existing, narrow deck to use Necropotence. You take Necropotence, and build a deck that can win off a 3-mana draw 20, and you have a working Necro deck. Rituals and fast mana make it an auto win, but there is no other card that gives so many cards for so little effort. You basically get exactly what you want right now. If you want life gain, you'll draw into it. If you want cantrips or mana, you'll draw into it.
All of those cards take more to set up. Whispering madness requires an extra black, Reforge needs a topdeck or 2 more mana, Archivist needs you to untap. Combo decks require efficient use of mana and time in order to be consistent, and these cards work against that goal.
Necropotence is in a different category all together, because you get your mana efficiency after you cast it. It's the "pay 1 life" that makes Necropotence cheap. If it was, say, "pay 4 life", then it might not be so broken.
tl;dr don't do drugs kids...
RGoblinsR
RWerewolf StompyR
URU/R DelverRU
RGBelcherGR
BThe GateB
GBLoam PoxBG
WGBNic FitBGW
UHigh TideU
UMerfolkU
UFaerieNinjaStillU
WBUAffinityUBW
GSquirrelsG
UWGSliversGWU
It was in FTV: Exiled already
BUG Reanimator
BWG Nic-Fit
BGR Punishing Nic-Fit
I played standard when Necro was legal.
Necropotence was all that was required to win. if your opponent didn't counter it, it was game over.
I was playing back then too. I never used the card(I didn't use black back then) but I played plenty of people who did. It's not all that's required to win. You need to have Dark Ritual and Necropotence in your opening hand and have a deck built around guaranteeing a win-con before you help your opponent kill you by turn 3 or 4. It's a great help, but you guys need to stop being so hyperbolic.
you would design a deck running necropotence any other way?
i was playing back then too. it didn't have to come down turn off a dark ritual to be brutal and win you the game. it draws you answers, it draws you threats. all it has to do is resolve and stick around for a turn.
Necropotence is so busted, it's replacements are so busted. (There is a reason this stuff is restricted in Vintage and banned in Legacy).
Any card on the Legacy ban list due to power level isn't coming back to standard.
Necropotence is never coming back, but some of it's replacements, like Greed, are reasonable cards in any format.
Greed requires both a mana and life investment. Thus it is actually harder to use. (It was actually printed before Necropotence)
Compare to say Griselbrand who instantly went into nearly every re-animator strat known mostly for his busted draw 7 for free ability.
Not really. You only needed Necropotence or a tutor. You certainly didn't need both. As long as you were able to play hymn to tourach or sink hole turn 2 you were pretty much golden. You were also playing lotus petal and dark ritual, so you'd often have the mana accel you needed on turns 1 or 2.
It's kinda funny that it only started to dominate once black vise got banned though.
But yeah, it's not getting reprinted in a standard legal deck.
Why even ask or wonder if you're going to dismiss everything everyone says?......
If you played back then like you said, then you would know why. It was every where. It won everything. It didn't have to come down turn 1 or 2 or even 3. It just needed to land. Whenever it landed that was usually game. If it turned into a liability than you Nevinyrral's Disk the playing field and started over, usually sacc'ing lands to your Zuran Orb to get your life total back up.
Also, just to point out, any deck NOT built around a win condition is a poorly constructed deck. You keep bringing that up but seriously, that is the poorest argument you can make. Necro wasn't necessarily the win condition, it got you what you needed to win when you needed it. And it hardly was dropped turn one. Turn one-three was all about Hymn to Tourach, Sinkhole, and Hypnotic Specter. What can your opponent do with no hand or lands? If they somehow did, you Necro and draw until you find the answer. That is why Necro was so strong.
When the game turns into Deck A vs Decks to beat Deck A, the format is degenerate and something needs to be done. That's why Necro is banned, it turned Magic into Necro vs Necro or -anti Necro. The only deck that could really beat Necro consistently was Stasis which is an even more degenerate deck.
BUG Reanimator
BWG Nic-Fit
BGR Punishing Nic-Fit
Could be fun though!
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
More facts of magic
Griselbrand sees some play because you can cheat him out with Unburial Rites and to a lesser extent because a lifelink swing can fuel the draw. The only other time he sees play in standard is in MBC, which is winning how many tournaments?
If they did print Necro in standard, what do you think it looks like? Turn 1, duress; turn 2, devour flesh or something; turn 3, necro; turn 4, don't actually need another card -> cast devour flesh; turn 5, start drawing, oh snap I only have five mana, what am I supposed to do?; etc.
Finally, if Blizzard did reprint Necro, they would obviously take out any particularly broken interactions or would undermine black decks that would use Necro. For example, they might take Mutilate out of the core set.
The right answer here isn't that hard:
1. There's no reason from what MaRo said to think necro is coming back soon.
2. However, it is true that necro has much less stellar support in standard today than what it has in other formats. Further, WotC could exercise extra care in the standard cardpool around necro.
3. Modern would be a problem. Lots of mana fixing means people could play it in multicolor decks more easily. On the other hand, it's a fast format that control rarely dominates, so it's tough to say exactly what would happen. In short, a headache but not impossible.
4. Hence, WotC could do it, but there's no reason to think they will.
The right answer is not: "OMGzorz necro so good never reprint."