So I know this may need to go in Custom Card Creation, but I figured this may actually be a quality place for this thread.
Do you think there will ever cards that actually have snow mana in their mana costs? I think it sounds like an intriguing idea and would more or less open up the possibility for a "Sixth Color."
I've attached a couple of custom examples that are there just to illustrate the concept.
Edit: Artic Blast wasn't supposed to be a Mythic Rare, I just messed up when I made it, but that's beside the point, because the card is just illustrating an idea I have.
I don't know if we are ever going to revisit Ice Age/Coldsnap, but man, I'd love it so. Even though Coldsnap wasn't the best block of Magic, I really loved snow as mechanic (even though it doesn't do anything special per se). I'd like to see Return to Coldsnap and more creative use of snow. I mean, I've always thought why snow couldn't be supertype of instants and sorcieries too, so that they could be drawn via Scrying Sheets...
And of the idea of snow mana in casting cost, I'd love to see a Snow-Planeswalker. Like Karn, but with snow mana in casting cost...
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If they ever do return to the whole snow thing... Snow mana and it's importance REALLY needs to tie better into the block and its mechanics. Ice Age as a whole had a huge problem in that there wasn't much focus on what was essentially a brand new type of mana.
I wouldn't be opposed to it, but they really need to go 'balls out' if they ever make a return to that mana type.
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Brian Tinsman, Set Designer :?mana::snow::snow:
Legendary Creature – Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block. "Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
If they ever do return to the whole snow thing... Snow mana and it's importance REALLY needs to tie better into the block and its mechanics. Ice Age as a whole had a huge problem in that there wasn't much focus on what was essentially a brand new type of mana.
I wouldn't be opposed to it, but they really need to go 'balls out' if they ever make a return to that mana type.
So, if I'm understanding you correctly, you'd be willing for them to make S a "Sixth Color" for a set, if not a block?
The problem with snow mana is that it either engulfs the set in importance, or isn't worth including. The middle ground would be 'bang for your buck', where you get some bonus for using snow mana. This approach would mean the focus on snow is not very high or it would create an over-powered set.
The problem with snow in a card's casting cost is color. Snow is color-indifferent, so a card like that counter-spell in the OP, could go in any deck capable of creating snow mana. That's too powerful. You might as well make it colorless since Snow lands are basic, and in a format where they're legal, why not run snow lands instead of non-snow?
If snow is in the casting cost, there'd probably be some "snow matters" ability on the card to tie in the flavor aspect. Otherwise, a "if you spent {S} to cast ~, do X" ability would be better design space, rather than arbitrarily forcing people to play with snow lands to cast cards with no overal bonus.
While I could see Wizards doing it at some point since Snow is a tool that they have in their tool box there are a few issues.
1. Snow-Fur is right that snow really needs to be a part of the set. Coldsnap did a much better job at making it relevant.
2. Snow doesn't have color. The first card you posted isn't a blue spell and could be played tapping a Snow Forest and a Snow Plains, we would have to see cards more like the second one you posted.
Dagreth the Frozen XG
Creature - Hydra
~ ETB with an addittional +1/+1 counter for
each Snow mana used to cast it.
*/*
Something like that could work since it pushes you to use Snow lands but with the G in it's cost is clearly a G spell.
3. They would have to either make it only part of the set or find some way of going all out with another frozen plane that doesn't feel like Ice Age 2.
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There's no proof she's being chased
by ninja squirrels either. - Dr. Wilson
I'm hoping they will make a snow deck in COM2. I'm not sure if they will ever bring snow back in an expansion, but the multiplayer products give me hope that we will see new snow cards.
Snow doesn't have color. The first card you posted isn't a blue spell and could be played tapping a Snow Forest and a Snow Plains, we would have to see cards more like the second one you posted.
Well, I wasn't making it a blue spell. I think that if Wizards used S as a Sixth Color, it would be a "Jack of all tades, master of none." But you bring up a good point about any deck being able to abuse cards with S in their mana costs.
That would be pretty sweet. He could be Tevesh Szat or some awesome character form Magic's grand past that had something to do with Ice Age.
Tevesh Szat is dead. He was killed by Urza after Tevesh killed Daria. Leshrac is dead as well, killed by Bolas, by Leshrac getting trapped in an artifact and Bolas using it (and Leshrac's spark) to seal the Medaran Time Rift. Freyalise, the third large Ice Age walker, killed herself (and blew up Skyshroud) to seal another rift.
That said, and out of the way, Spells with Snow mana as part of their casting cost is the next logical step for the Snow mechanic.
1st Step: Snow land and cards that care about snow.
2nd Step: Other snow permanents and snow-mana activation costs.
3rd Step (the next step): Spells that cost snow-mana to cast.
And we will get snow mana again, it is not a question of if, it is a question of when, as there is still potential for the mechanic.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
So, if I'm understanding you correctly, you'd be willing for them to make S a "Sixth Color" for a set, if not a block?
Honestly it might be a good way to go. It helps drive home the focus on the mechanic and look like it's something more than just a casual after thought for activated abilities and fresh new land walking keyword.
While you don't want to make it purely about Snow mana, a good 15 or so cards with it in their casting cost, with maybe an 'all snow' legendary creature could make for a cool set.
Maybe have some cards that say "If S was used to cast NAME, do THIS." and maybe other cards where you got benefits for not using snow mana, or where worse if you have snow lands out. Like Karric said, it's a tough like to walk considering how snow lands are handled.
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer :?mana::snow::snow:
Legendary Creature – Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block. "Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
If snow mana ever is used again I feel like it will be used when a block based around the planes of Kaldheim and/or Valla, aka the "Nordic" planes, is released. We've only seen them on planechase cards but there's a better chance of a new set based around them than a return to Ice Age. Coldsnap was a "long lost" third set to Ice Age block and was only released to wrap up some loose ends.
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RRRDo Not Pursue Lu Bu!!!RRR UBUWydwyn, the Biting Gale 1v1UBU WRWBrion Cho Aniki!! I Wanna Be Strong Like Big Brother!WRW BRBLyzie Borden and the Thrill Kill CultBRB GWUDerevi, Birdman TacticianGWU
"Gotta have opposites dark and light, light and dark in painting. It's like in life. Gotta have a little sadness once in a while so you know when the good times come." -Bob Ross
possibly. I mean it is untread ground. eventually WotC may do it, like Phyrexian hybrid mana and tri-brid mana.
I really like the idea of Phyrexian Hybrid Mana and Tri-Hybrid Mana... And Phyrexian Tri-Hybrid Mana... That would be absurdly broken...
On topic, I think it's an interesting direction Wizards could eventually take. I proposed the idea to see what others thought about, and to see if anyone actually thought it would ever be done.
Honestly, it might be a good way to go. It helps drive home the focus on the mechanic and look like it's something more than just a casual after thought for activated abilities and fresh new land walking keyword.
While you don't want to make it purely about Snow mana, a good 15 or so cards with it in their casting cost, with maybe an 'all snow' legendary creature could make for a cool set.
Maybe have some cards that say "If S was used to cast NAME, do THIS." and maybe other cards where you got benefits for not using snow mana, or where worse if you have snow lands out. Like Karric said, it's a tough line to walk considering how snow lands are handled.
I love the idea of an All-Snow Legend! Even if he/she/it was absolute garbage, I'd probably still do an EDH/Commander deck with that Legend as my General.
And as for the Snow Lands, perhaps they could reprint the Basic Snow Lands and also create a sixth Basic Snow Land:
Artic (or some other generic name)
Basic Snow Land Common
: Add S to your mana pool.
If snow mana ever is used again I feel like it will be used when a block based around the planes of Kaldheim and/or Valla, aka the "Nordic" planes, is released. We've only seen them on planechase cards but there's a better chance of a new set based around them than a return to Ice Age. Coldsnap was a "long lost" third set to Ice Age block and was only released to wrap up some loose ends.
Well I didn't figure we were ever going to have "Coldnap 2: The Re-Snapening," but I can definitely see Wizards taking us to a Norse-influenced Plane.
The only reason why I'm interested in more snow is right in my signature; Heidar has too few snow-goodies to play with right now. Yeah, he can just use my healthy supplies of snow-covered islands, but that's so booooring...:-/
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The wedding is over. Now it's time for the honeymoon.
I was thinking about snow mana-ramp with spells similar to Infernal Plunge in such a block, but that would require a rules change, as snow mana is mana generated by a snow permanent.
The only reason why I'm interested in more snow is right in my signature; Heidar has too few snow-goodies to play with right now. Yeah, he can just use my healthy supplies of snow-covered islands, but that's so booooring...:-/
You just made me wonder something... If Wizards would put S in the mana costs of cards, do ya'll think that the EDH/Commander Rules Committee would alter the color identity rules to where your General has to have S in their color identity for you to have S symbols present in your deck? Obviously, this could create an interesting debate, because of how Snow-Covered Lands are currently handled and all sorts of other factors.
I was thinking about snow mana-ramp with spells similar to Infernal Plunge in such a block, but that would require a rules change, as snow mana is mana generated by a snow permanent.
No snow mana-ramp makes me sad.
A Snow Functional reprint of Infernal Plunge would be awesome! Though a Snow version of Dark Ritual would be even awesomer!!!
Right off the top of my head, Boreal Druid is more or less Snow-ramp.
I really like the idea of Phyrexian Hybrid Mana and Tri-Hybrid Mana... And Phyrexian Tri-Hybrid Mana... That would be absurdly broken...
On topic, I think it's an interesting direction Wizards could eventually take. I proposed the idea to see what others thought about, and to see if anyone actually thought it would ever be done.
I love the idea of an All-Snow Legend! Even if he/she/it was absolute garbage, I'd probably still do an EDH/Commander deck with that Legend as my General.
Of couse, since it is all snow, it will be colorless, which means no colored cards in your deck, and no basic lands either.
Of couse, since it is all snow, it will be colorless, which means no colored cards in your deck, and no basic lands either.
Well, that's why I suggested the idea that it could be consinderd a "Sixth Color," and as a result the Color Identity rules would have to be altered. At least, I think so.
Well, that's why I suggested the idea that it could be consinderd a "Sixth Color," and as a result the Color Identity rules would have to be altered. At least, I think so.
Well, I had invisioned it as a sixth basic land. Which... That would have an interesting effect on the Domain Mechanic.
Domain counts basic land types, your suggested basic snow land (Arctic Wastes?) lacked a basic land type, which means it wouldn't affect the Domain mechanic.
The may reason they didn't introduce Purple in Planar Chaos, or have printed any other basic land types than the five we have now, is because it would break both Domain and Sunburst. A colorless basic land without a basic land type, such as your suggested snow land, would go around this.
As for the colorless snow spells abilities, well, we could look to the various snow permanents with activated abilities and go from there. Just cost the spells higher than if they would have been in their normal colors, and you'd be golden.
For example, one snow creature (white) allowed you to tap down another creature, so a colorless snow spell that taps down permanents could work, just cost it higher than what it would be in blue or white, say at at 2 colorless and one snow mana, and it should be fine at common as an instant. (Compare to Twiddle and similar spells).
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
The main reason they didn't introduce Purple in Planar Chaos, or have printed any other basic land types than the five we have now, is because it would break both Domain and Sunburst.
...Seriously?
They were worried about Domain and Sunburst being broken? Out of all the mechanics?
I'm sure those Domain and Sunburst decks will be terrifying with another basic land type, but I have the feeling they're not going to be much of a problem in any format.
Also, Dream Thrush can make opponents' lands not create colored mana (OMGBROKEN), and Coalition Victory now requires a new land (Even though nobody likes Coalition Victory anyway).
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The wedding is over. Now it's time for the honeymoon.
Domain counts basic land types, your suggested basic snow land (Arctic Wastes?) lacked a basic land type, which means it wouldn't affect the Domain mechanic.
The may reason they didn't introduce Purple in Planar Chaos, or have printed any other basic land types than the five we have now, is because it would break both Domain and Sunburst. A colorless basic land without a basic land type, such as your suggested snow land, would go around this.
As for the colorless snow spells abilities, well, we could look to the various snow permanents with activated abilities and go from there. Just cost the spells higher than if they would have been in their normal colors, and you'd be golden.
For example, one snow creature (white) allowed you to tap down another creature, so a colorless snow spell that taps down permanents could work, just cost it higher than what it would be in blue or white, say at at 2 colorless and one snow mana, and it should be fine at common as an instant. (Compare to Twiddle and similar spells).
So if it was more like this:
Artic
Basic Snow Land - Artic Common
: Add S to your mana pool.
It would mess up not only Domain, but also Sunburst. I hadn't thought about this at all. So my original, "typeless" prototype would be the way to go.
Artic
Basic Snow Land Common
: Add S to your mana pool.
I completely agree on the over-costedness of Snow-Colored cards, it kinda fits my idea of Snow being the "Jack of all trade, but the master of none."
Do you think there will ever cards that actually have snow mana in their mana costs? I think it sounds like an intriguing idea and would more or less open up the possibility for a "Sixth Color."
I've attached a couple of custom examples that are there just to illustrate the concept.
Edit: Artic Blast wasn't supposed to be a Mythic Rare, I just messed up when I made it, but that's beside the point, because the card is just illustrating an idea I have.
Heroes and Villains Comics and Games
Watch "The Giant Sharkgate Chronicles"
Watch "Eating Made Easy"
And of the idea of snow mana in casting cost, I'd love to see a Snow-Planeswalker. Like Karn, but with snow mana in casting cost...
That would be pretty sweet. He could be Tevesh Szat or some awesome character form Magic's grand past that had something to do with Ice Age.
Heroes and Villains Comics and Games
Watch "The Giant Sharkgate Chronicles"
Watch "Eating Made Easy"
Like Marit Lage
Eh, the only thing is that Marit Lage isn't a Planeswalker (Fluff-wise), though that would be one heck of a card.
Heroes and Villains Comics and Games
Watch "The Giant Sharkgate Chronicles"
Watch "Eating Made Easy"
I wouldn't be opposed to it, but they really need to go 'balls out' if they ever make a return to that mana type.
Legendary Creature – Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block.
"Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
So, if I'm understanding you correctly, you'd be willing for them to make S a "Sixth Color" for a set, if not a block?
Heroes and Villains Comics and Games
Watch "The Giant Sharkgate Chronicles"
Watch "Eating Made Easy"
The problem with snow in a card's casting cost is color. Snow is color-indifferent, so a card like that counter-spell in the OP, could go in any deck capable of creating snow mana. That's too powerful. You might as well make it colorless since Snow lands are basic, and in a format where they're legal, why not run snow lands instead of non-snow?
If snow is in the casting cost, there'd probably be some "snow matters" ability on the card to tie in the flavor aspect. Otherwise, a "if you spent {S} to cast ~, do X" ability would be better design space, rather than arbitrarily forcing people to play with snow lands to cast cards with no overal bonus.
1. Snow-Fur is right that snow really needs to be a part of the set. Coldsnap did a much better job at making it relevant.
2. Snow doesn't have color. The first card you posted isn't a blue spell and could be played tapping a Snow Forest and a Snow Plains, we would have to see cards more like the second one you posted.
Dagreth the Frozen XG
Creature - Hydra
~ ETB with an addittional +1/+1 counter for
each Snow mana used to cast it.
*/*
Something like that could work since it pushes you to use Snow lands but with the G in it's cost is clearly a G spell.
3. They would have to either make it only part of the set or find some way of going all out with another frozen plane that doesn't feel like Ice Age 2.
There's no proof she's being chased
by ninja squirrels either. - Dr. Wilson
Well, I wasn't making it a blue spell. I think that if Wizards used S as a Sixth Color, it would be a "Jack of all tades, master of none." But you bring up a good point about any deck being able to abuse cards with S in their mana costs.
Heroes and Villains Comics and Games
Watch "The Giant Sharkgate Chronicles"
Watch "Eating Made Easy"
Tevesh Szat is dead. He was killed by Urza after Tevesh killed Daria. Leshrac is dead as well, killed by Bolas, by Leshrac getting trapped in an artifact and Bolas using it (and Leshrac's spark) to seal the Medaran Time Rift. Freyalise, the third large Ice Age walker, killed herself (and blew up Skyshroud) to seal another rift.
That said, and out of the way, Spells with Snow mana as part of their casting cost is the next logical step for the Snow mechanic.
1st Step: Snow land and cards that care about snow.
2nd Step: Other snow permanents and snow-mana activation costs.
3rd Step (the next step): Spells that cost snow-mana to cast.
And we will get snow mana again, it is not a question of if, it is a question of when, as there is still potential for the mechanic.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
I like the way you think, krishnath
Heroes and Villains Comics and Games
Watch "The Giant Sharkgate Chronicles"
Watch "Eating Made Easy"
Honestly it might be a good way to go. It helps drive home the focus on the mechanic and look like it's something more than just a casual after thought for activated abilities and fresh new land walking keyword.
While you don't want to make it purely about Snow mana, a good 15 or so cards with it in their casting cost, with maybe an 'all snow' legendary creature could make for a cool set.
Maybe have some cards that say "If S was used to cast NAME, do THIS." and maybe other cards where you got benefits for not using snow mana, or where worse if you have snow lands out. Like Karric said, it's a tough like to walk considering how snow lands are handled.
Legendary Creature – Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block.
"Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
UBUWydwyn, the Biting Gale 1v1UBU
WRWBrion Cho Aniki!! I Wanna Be Strong Like Big Brother!WRW
BRBLyzie Borden and the Thrill Kill CultBRB
GWUDerevi, Birdman TacticianGWU
"Gotta have opposites dark and light, light and dark in painting. It's like in life. Gotta have a little sadness once in a while so you know when the good times come." -Bob Ross
On Modern Masters 2:
Will be kept until 12/31/2013 to prove if Right or Wrong.Proven right 1/27/2013I really like the idea of Phyrexian Hybrid Mana and Tri-Hybrid Mana... And Phyrexian Tri-Hybrid Mana... That would be absurdly broken...
On topic, I think it's an interesting direction Wizards could eventually take. I proposed the idea to see what others thought about, and to see if anyone actually thought it would ever be done.
I love the idea of an All-Snow Legend! Even if he/she/it was absolute garbage, I'd probably still do an EDH/Commander deck with that Legend as my General.
And as for the Snow Lands, perhaps they could reprint the Basic Snow Lands and also create a sixth Basic Snow Land:
Artic (or some other generic name)
Basic Snow Land Common
: Add S to your mana pool.
It's a very basic, yet clean, design.
Well I didn't figure we were ever going to have "Coldnap 2: The Re-Snapening," but I can definitely see Wizards taking us to a Norse-influenced Plane.
Heroes and Villains Comics and Games
Watch "The Giant Sharkgate Chronicles"
Watch "Eating Made Easy"
Thanks to Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures!
No snow mana-ramp makes me sad.
You just made me wonder something... If Wizards would put S in the mana costs of cards, do ya'll think that the EDH/Commander Rules Committee would alter the color identity rules to where your General has to have S in their color identity for you to have S symbols present in your deck? Obviously, this could create an interesting debate, because of how Snow-Covered Lands are currently handled and all sorts of other factors.
A Snow Functional reprint of Infernal Plunge would be awesome! Though a Snow version of Dark Ritual would be even awesomer!!!
Right off the top of my head, Boreal Druid is more or less Snow-ramp.
Heroes and Villains Comics and Games
Watch "The Giant Sharkgate Chronicles"
Watch "Eating Made Easy"
Of couse, since it is all snow, it will be colorless, which means no colored cards in your deck, and no basic lands either.
Verily, and since it lacks a basic land type, it does not break Domain either.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
Well, that's why I suggested the idea that it could be consinderd a "Sixth Color," and as a result the Color Identity rules would have to be altered. At least, I think so.
Well, I had invisioned it as a sixth basic land. Which... That would have an interesting effect on the Domain Mechanic.
Heroes and Villains Comics and Games
Watch "The Giant Sharkgate Chronicles"
Watch "Eating Made Easy"
Domain counts basic land types, your suggested basic snow land (Arctic Wastes?) lacked a basic land type, which means it wouldn't affect the Domain mechanic.
The may reason they didn't introduce Purple in Planar Chaos, or have printed any other basic land types than the five we have now, is because it would break both Domain and Sunburst. A colorless basic land without a basic land type, such as your suggested snow land, would go around this.
As for the colorless snow spells abilities, well, we could look to the various snow permanents with activated abilities and go from there. Just cost the spells higher than if they would have been in their normal colors, and you'd be golden.
For example, one snow creature (white) allowed you to tap down another creature, so a colorless snow spell that taps down permanents could work, just cost it higher than what it would be in blue or white, say at at 2 colorless and one snow mana, and it should be fine at common as an instant. (Compare to Twiddle and similar spells).
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
...Seriously?
They were worried about Domain and Sunburst being broken? Out of all the mechanics?
I'm sure those Domain and Sunburst decks will be terrifying with another basic land type, but I have the feeling they're not going to be much of a problem in any format.
Also, Dream Thrush can make opponents' lands not create colored mana (OMGBROKEN), and Coalition Victory now requires a new land (Even though nobody likes Coalition Victory anyway).
Thanks to Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures!
So if it was more like this:
Artic
Basic Snow Land - Artic Common
: Add S to your mana pool.
It would mess up not only Domain, but also Sunburst. I hadn't thought about this at all. So my original, "typeless" prototype would be the way to go.
Artic
Basic Snow Land Common
: Add S to your mana pool.
I completely agree on the over-costedness of Snow-Colored cards, it kinda fits my idea of Snow being the "Jack of all trade, but the master of none."
Heroes and Villains Comics and Games
Watch "The Giant Sharkgate Chronicles"
Watch "Eating Made Easy"