I have seen a new card with Liliana locking hands with Bolas and my big name question is whether Liliana will betray everyone to serve Nicol Bolas once more. Nissa has supposedly given up and so has Gideon. Will he return and will Nicol Bolas finally kill off another Plane, especially the one he was originally locked up on?
Bolas will not destroy Dominaria. It is the plane he was born on. He was not imprisoned on Dominaria, but his discorporated from was stuck in his Meditation Realm. A pocket dimension adjacent to Dominaria.
Lily will work for Bolas, she doesn't have a choice in the matter, but on the other hand, she was using the Gatewatch to deal with her demons and didn't give two shakes of a tail feather about them or their goals. She. Is. A. Villain. Always have been, always will be. She is the epitome of a black mana aligned character, completely self centered. She may fake caring about others, but ultimately she only cares about herself. This is what Nissa tried to warn the others about, because she knows. Nissa has dipped her toe in the black mana pool and knows what kind of person does so. Nissa left because she was frustrated that Gideon and Chandra, people she considered her friends, would rather listen to the honeyed words of an obvious villain than their friend who tried to warn them.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
Liliana isn't a villain, she's not out to get the heroes, her goals aren't antithetical to the Gatewatch. She's just a classic Neutral Evil character. She works for herself, if that happens to go along with the heroes, she's fine with that, if not then she's fine with leaving them.
However, as a Neutal Evil character, she hates being beholden to anyone. Her quest to kill the Demons was a result of this, and now she will chafe at being beholden to Bolas. This conveniently corresponds to one of the major goals of the Gatewatch. They will see her departure as a betrayal for now, but down the line she wants to break free of Bolas and the Gatewatch wants to stop him from harming planes, so they will eventually work together again to defeat him.
After that, she may become a villain, or she may simply depart to live free, but this is still a part of the ongoing story of the conflict between Bolas and the Gatewatch. We are in the Avengers 2 stage of the story, the team is strained, is having internal conflict, and is grappling with recent defeats.
Liliana isn't a villain, she's not out to get the heroes, her goals aren't antithetical to the Gatewatch. She's just a classic Neutral Evil character. She works for herself, if that happens to go along with the heroes, she's fine with that, if not then she's fine with leaving them.
However, as a Neutal Evil character, she hates being beholden to anyone. Her quest to kill the Demons was a result of this, and now she will chafe at being beholden to Bolas. This conveniently corresponds to one of the major goals of the Gatewatch. They will see her departure as a betrayal for now, but down the line she wants to break free of Bolas and the Gatewatch wants to stop him from harming planes, so they will eventually work together again to defeat him.
After that, she may become a villain, or she may simply depart to live free, but this is still a part of the ongoing story of the conflict between Bolas and the Gatewatch. We are in the Avengers 2 stage of the story, the team is strained, is having internal conflict, and is grappling with recent defeats.
Lily is a villain, a villain protagonist sure, but a villain never the less. A hero does not commit mass murder (Dark Ascension) or threaten someone with feeding her friends alive to undead (Dark Ascension, again). Lily is a villain through and through. Nothing you say, do, or think can change this fact.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
In Elder Dragons to name only the chronologically first place. Also, all the characters from Legends were Dominarian.
what does it say in the comics? do you have like a picture or something? also dakkon blackblade was a planeswalker and i've never seen anything to imply he was from dominaria originally either.
A hero versus a villain is a judgment in relation to the story at hand. The same character can be a hero in one story, a villain in another, and neither in a third. Liliana is not a villain of the current story. There may be a future story in which she is cast as a villain, her history and personality are conducive to making her a fairly stereotypical villain.
As for Bolas and the Elder Dragons: He claims to have seen the sun rise for the first time on Dominaria, he also claims to have been already ancient when the plane was born. The Elder Dragons were capable of planar travel, and the Elder Dragon Wars spanned many planes. Only Bolas himself and possibly Ugin have direct knowledge of that period of history, and both of their accounts may be untrustworthy.
Of note, it does say on his card that he is the most ancient evil of Dominaria, suggesting that he is from the plane.
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As for Bolas and the Elder Dragons: He claims to have seen the sun rise for the first time on Dominaria, he also claims to have been already ancient when the plane was born.
Of note, it does say on his card that he is the most ancient evil of Dominaria, suggesting that he is from the plane.
Your first sentence contradicts the second. He was already ancient when the plane was born. Bolas > Dominaria.
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As for Bolas and the Elder Dragons: He claims to have seen the sun rise for the first time on Dominaria, he also claims to have been already ancient when the plane was born.
Of note, it does say on his card that he is the most ancient evil of Dominaria, suggesting that he is from the plane.
Your first sentence contradicts the second. He was already ancient when the plane was born. Bolas > Dominaria.
I also pointed out that it was on Bolas's own word that he was ancient when the plane was born, and that he may be untrustworthy. The quote from his card in fact contradicts Bolas's own account, which is why I brought it up.
You know what I find to be amusing? The fact that, until not long ago, most MtG characters (Liliana very much included) were nothing but cardboard cut-outs of the most common stereotypes related to their alignments and color identities, and people complained about it. But now that the characters are more well-rounded and complex, now that they have relatable motivations and layered personalities we can identify with, now that we're being shown that their decisions and mistakes and problems are dictated by their life experiences and their innermost feelings, rather than just by their color identities, people are trying to pigeonhole these characters back into their stereotypical color-coded roles. I guess there really is no pleasing the internet.
Please enlighten me on what kind of heroic character commits acts of mass murder and threatens someone with having their friends eaten alive? Go on. I am waiting.
Lily is a villain through and through. She is in it for herself, and herself only. If you want a heroic black aligned character, you have Toshiro Umezawa and Sorin Markov.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
You know what I find to be amusing? The fact that, until not long ago, most MtG characters (Liliana very much included) were nothing but cardboard cut-outs of the most common stereotypes related to their alignments and color identities, and people complained about it. But now that the characters are more well-rounded and complex, now that they have relatable motivations and layered personalities we can identify with, now that we're being shown that their decisions and mistakes and problems are dictated by their life experiences and their innermost feelings, rather than just by their color identities, people are trying to pigeonhole these characters back into their stereotypical color-coded roles. I guess there really is no pleasing the internet.
Please enlighten me on what kind of heroic character commits acts of mass murder and threatens someone with having their friends eaten alive? Go on. I am waiting.
Lily is a villain through and through. She is in it for herself, and herself only. If you want a heroic black aligned character, you have Toshiro Umezawa and Sorin Markov.
Right now, she's an anti-hero, not a villain. Also Yahenni, Maralen and Vraska are more heroic than Sorin IMO.
Bolas will not destroy Dominaria. It is the plane he was born on. He was not imprisoned on Dominaria, but his discorporated from was stuck in his Meditation Realm. A pocket dimension adjacent to Dominaria.
Lily will work for Bolas, she doesn't have a choice in the matter, but on the other hand, she was using the Gatewatch to deal with her demons and didn't give two shakes of a tail feather about them or their goals. She. Is. A. Villain. Always have been, always will be. She is the epitome of a black mana aligned character, completely self centered. She may fake caring about others, but ultimately she only cares about herself. This is what Nissa tried to warn the others about, because she knows. Nissa has dipped her toe in the black mana pool and knows what kind of person does so. Nissa left because she was frustrated that Gideon and Chandra, people she considered her friends, would rather listen to the honeyed words of an obvious villain than their friend who tried to warn them.
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Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
However, as a Neutal Evil character, she hates being beholden to anyone. Her quest to kill the Demons was a result of this, and now she will chafe at being beholden to Bolas. This conveniently corresponds to one of the major goals of the Gatewatch. They will see her departure as a betrayal for now, but down the line she wants to break free of Bolas and the Gatewatch wants to stop him from harming planes, so they will eventually work together again to defeat him.
After that, she may become a villain, or she may simply depart to live free, but this is still a part of the ongoing story of the conflict between Bolas and the Gatewatch. We are in the Avengers 2 stage of the story, the team is strained, is having internal conflict, and is grappling with recent defeats.
Lily is a villain, a villain protagonist sure, but a villain never the less. A hero does not commit mass murder (Dark Ascension) or threaten someone with feeding her friends alive to undead (Dark Ascension, again). Lily is a villain through and through. Nothing you say, do, or think can change this fact.
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Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
All of the original elder dragons were born on Dominaria. This has been known since their introduction in Legends.
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Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
but is it actually written anywhere or are you just assuming?...
In Elder Dragons to name only the chronologically first place. Also, all the characters from Legends were Dominarian.
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
what does it say in the comics? do you have like a picture or something? also dakkon blackblade was a planeswalker and i've never seen anything to imply he was from dominaria originally either.
As for Bolas and the Elder Dragons: He claims to have seen the sun rise for the first time on Dominaria, he also claims to have been already ancient when the plane was born. The Elder Dragons were capable of planar travel, and the Elder Dragon Wars spanned many planes. Only Bolas himself and possibly Ugin have direct knowledge of that period of history, and both of their accounts may be untrustworthy.
Of note, it does say on his card that he is the most ancient evil of Dominaria, suggesting that he is from the plane.
Your first sentence contradicts the second. He was already ancient when the plane was born. Bolas > Dominaria.
I also pointed out that it was on Bolas's own word that he was ancient when the plane was born, and that he may be untrustworthy. The quote from his card in fact contradicts Bolas's own account, which is why I brought it up.
Please enlighten me on what kind of heroic character commits acts of mass murder and threatens someone with having their friends eaten alive? Go on. I am waiting.
Lily is a villain through and through. She is in it for herself, and herself only. If you want a heroic black aligned character, you have Toshiro Umezawa and Sorin Markov.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
Right now, she's an anti-hero, not a villain. Also Yahenni, Maralen and Vraska are more heroic than Sorin IMO.
Sometimes these people are even downright judgy.
Liliana is not a nice character but has far more greys than many appreciate.
Good and evil do exist but they are complicated, hence why good stories often play around with our understanding of them.
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi