If I had to guess, I'd say that it will go Dominaria, Core Set, Regatha, Ravnica 3 Part 1, Ravnica 3 Part 2, Core Set, new plane with Nissa, Return to Theros Part 1, Return to Theros Part 2.
I think this looks pretty good, only thing I can say is I echo the thought that there might not be enough to Regatha for a full set but I'd be happy to be wrong. If not I could see Chandra maybe showing up on a random new plane as well, or to save space have her and Nissa show up together since they have a ongoing storyline with each other.
If I had to guess, I'd say that it will go Dominaria, Core Set, Regatha, Ravnica 3 Part 1, Ravnica 3 Part 2, Core Set, new plane with Nissa, Return to Theros Part 1, Return to Theros Part 2.
One possibility I've not seen anyone mention yet is that they will be using the Core Set as an actual story expansion. Have you considered that Regatha could also be Core 2018? Regatha was the historical core set plane for a few years, and they might not want to expand on it enough for a full expansion on top of that fact. If they make the Core set an actual plot point (and not just an interlude like previous Cores), they will not only have a solid story focused mechanical basis for the half new - half old way they are now doing them, but also help keep the plot moving along just as fast, which is something they've made a priority out of for the last few years.
The set will have some story relevance, but more in a "filling in information of the past about relevant characters" way than telling a piece of the "present-day" story.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I like what I'm seeing for the most part. I think that if Nissa goes to a new plane, it would be a plane suited to her abilities.
Innistrad and Amonkhet are not planes she can do well on, due to the corruption present on both planes. The plane we see her on might actually be similar to Zendikar in terms of having a strong worldsoul to communicate with and copious amounts of mana that won't kill her if she tries to wield it. Another thing to note about Nissa is that "Become the hand that moves" thing that seemed to be developing while she was on Amonkhet. It could be foreshadowing for some huge development she will get later down the road (and let's be honest, she arguably has one of the most OP ability sets of any of the Gatewatch already), or it could be an un-fired Chekhov's Gun.
I think that eventually Nissa will go back to Innistrad and be the one to release Emrakul again, but it's way too soon after the last appearance of Innistrad to have that be Nissa's next appearance. Note that she probably won't release Emrakul until after the Bolas conflict wraps up, and it could easily be the fourth visit to Innistrad rather than the third. The best way to do the third Innistrad would probably be a return to the original gothic horror with little if any eldrazi, with the main villain being something more less world-threatening like Tibalt, Ashiok, or Garruk. Also, Sorin can get broken out of the wall and Arlinn can actually be part of the plot.
Is it possible that Shandalar can get a set to itself for once? I can see Nissa being there.
I think it really depends on what the new core sets are like. If it's like M10 through M15, where almost everything is from Shandalar unless stated otherwise, then Shandalar will probably be stuck once again as a core set-only location. However, if they go more in the direction of Origins with a wide variety of planes being represented, then a normal set on Shandalar would feel a lot less redundant.
If I had to guess, I'd say that it will go Dominaria, Core Set, Regatha, Ravnica 3 Part 1, Ravnica 3 Part 2, Core Set, new plane with Nissa, Return to Theros Part 1, Return to Theros Part 2.
I think this looks pretty good, only thing I can say is I echo the thought that there might not be enough to Regatha for a full set but I'd be happy to be wrong.
Well, Kaladesh as it was represented in Origins was mostly just humans and thopters, but the real set had dwarves, vedalken, aetherborn, gremlins, elves, servos, etc. As a result, Regatha (and Vryn) probably have a lot more to them than what we saw in Origins, and they could expand on what they've already introduced in many different ways. The bigger issue with Regatha is that it doesn't exactly cross anything off the short list. There's nothing about it that would really draw people in, so they would need to find a clever way to expand on what they've established in such a way that it creates a theme that draws people in.
If not I could see Chandra maybe showing up on a random new plane as well, or to save space have her and Nissa show up together since they have a ongoing storyline with each other.
That's definitely possible, but they fled from Amonkhet separately so it's very unlikely that they would both end up on the same new plane. So a set/block that has both of them would probably need to be a previously established meeting point, meaning Ravnica or Dominaria. Either that or they meet up on one of those planes before traveling somewhere else together, but then that would require explanation for why they went somewhere new rather than either waiting for the rest of the team or going to search for them.
I do think it could work for them both to meet on Ravnica and star in that block, especially if it takes place concurrently with Ixalan so Jace (and other planeswalkers on Ixalan) couldn't be there to steal the show. It would explain why the rendezvous point was stated to be Dominaria in the art book but never explicitly named in the actual story:
"Please," he [Ajani] said. "Don't go to Amonkhet. Not yet. Stay here, or go find allies elsewhere. In the morning we can pick a rendezvous point. We can meet up in a few weeks' time, count our allies, compare notes, and plan our next move."
"We'll pick a rendezvous in the morning," he [Gideon] said. "Then we'll meet Ajani there...after we face Bolas."
There is a rendezvous point, but it's never actually named in the actual story. They write the art books before the actual articles (and there's been issues with consistency before), so maybe they were planning to have it be Dominaria at that point and they put it in the art book. But then they might changed their minds about where they wanted to go with story and changed it. That might explain why Chandra and/or Nissa went to Ravnica rather than Dominaria, if that's what ends up happening.
If I had to guess, I'd say that it will go Dominaria, Core Set, Regatha, Ravnica 3 Part 1, Ravnica 3 Part 2, Core Set, new plane with Nissa, Return to Theros Part 1, Return to Theros Part 2.
One possibility I've not seen anyone mention yet is that they will be using the Core Set as an actual story expansion. Have you considered that Regatha could also be Core 2018? Regatha was the historical core set plane for a few years, and they might not want to expand on it enough for a full expansion on top of that fact. If they make the Core set an actual plot point (and not just an interlude like previous Cores), they will not only have a solid story focused mechanical basis for the half new - half old way they are now doing them, but also help keep the plot moving along just as fast, which is something they've made a priority out of for the last few years.
The set will have some story relevance, but more in a "filling in information of the past about relevant characters" way than telling a piece of the "present-day" story.
Good to know. Those are the types of stories I've been wishing they would do between main sets instead of giving us nothing for weeks. I don't think we've had one since Pride of the Kraul. If core sets give us more of those types of stories, I'll be very pleased. Then again, I might be reading into this to much, and Maro might just be referring to the cards themselves revealing information (like the new art on Phyrexian Arena in Conspiracy) rather than actual story articles. I guess that like everything else with this new type of core set, we'll have to wait until the first one roles around to find out.
dude my dream is to go back to Lorwyn (kith kin was my first deck) AND Kamigawa...so...i guess i'll precede you outside
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Huey, Dewey and Louie are always dressed in RUG. it is CLEARLY going to be the wedges block Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
dude my dream is to go back to Lorwyn (kith kin was my first deck) AND Kamigawa...so...i guess i'll precede you outside
return to lorwyn would be a good time to get an actual colfenor legendary creature card. i realize the sapling was killed but i'm sure they could figure out a way. now that i think about it though, i'm surprised they haven't already printed one in a commander product. regardless, the lorywn block story line is one of my favorites, and there is more character to that plane than in most other planes combined.
You said it best, whats the draw or hook for this world? Vryn at least has conflict already baked in with the war for the mage rings and Jace finding him home and family again. Regatha to all just has the monks and the order of heliud. I haven't read the Purifying Fire and I know it shows the world somewhat but as seen after the soft reboot in origins only the beats of that novel are still canon, which means its up in the air of what on Regatha is still canon.
-Nissa/Chandra
I know we need some reason they find each other, I'm it just after Kaladesh Chandra character arc doesn't have much to go. Could be after Nissa/Chandra heals up she goes looking for the other gatewatch members and looks for Chandra/Nissa first. I also think the reason they never mention Dominaria was to keep as a surprise for the set (since at the time we haven't heard about it yet) and the art book editor forgot to take it out.
-Core Set Storylines
Magic Orgins did very well and one reason was have some form of story so I'm reading as the former. We might even see the "villains" origins that they had originally planned. Creative is understaffed so we aren't getting stories in-between but for the corsets they have slots and time already slotted for them so unless something causes them to lose more people I won't see why they won't give us a give core set stories.
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I know we need some reason they find each other, I'm it just after Kaladesh Chandra character arc doesn't have much to go. Could be after Nissa/Chandra heals up she goes looking for the other gatewatch members and looks for Chandra/Nissa first. I also think the reason they never mention Dominaria was to keep as a surprise for the set (since at the time we haven't heard about it yet) and the art book editor forgot to take it out.
You said it best, whats the draw or hook for this world? Very at least has conflict already baked in with the war for the mage rings and Jace finding him home and family again. Regatha to all just has the monks and the order of heliud. I haven't read the Purifying Fire and I know it shows the world somewhat but as seen after the soft reboot in origins only the beats of that novel are still canon, which means its up in the air of what on Regatha is still canon.
That doesn't mean Regatha has nothing of value to offer as far as a dedicated set is concerned, especially since we still know very little about the plane compared to many of the other Origins planes.
Also "Very" is supposed to be "Vryn" (sorry, I had to get that off my chest).
I know we need some reason they find each other, I'm it just after Kaladesh Chandra character arc doesn't have much to go. Could be after Nissa/Chandra heals up she goes looking for the other gatewatch members and looks for Chandra/Nissa first. I also think the reason they never mention Dominaria was to keep as a surprise for the set (since at the time we haven't heard about it yet) and the art book editor forgot to take it out.
So Chandra possibly meeting Jaya doesn't count?
True I forgot about Jaya but hard to say what role is going to play.
I'm personally thinking she been mother Luti all along and Chandra won't find out until after her "recover" set(s) and the gate watch reunites.
You said it best, whats the draw or hook for this world? Very at least has conflict already baked in with the war for the mage rings and Jace finding him home and family again. Regatha to all just has the monks and the order of heliud. I haven't read the Purifying Fire and I know it shows the world somewhat but as seen after the soft reboot in origins only the beats of that novel are still canon, which means its up in the air of what on Regatha is still canon.
That doesn't mean Regatha has nothing of value to offer as far as a dedicated set is concerned, especially since we still know very little about the plane compared to many of the other Origins planes.
Also "Very" is supposed to be "Vryn" (sorry, I had to get that off my chest).
Damn auto-correct.
I know thats why above I said I'm hope I'm wrong but so Regatha. I honestly like creative new approach to developing their existing characters and planes and want Regatha and some of the other somewhat one off world to get more lore. Your right that they could retro-fit into another theme since so little is know.
I'm just saying their isn't a strong flavor or mechanical hook I can see, it has even lost its flavor tie as adopted home plane of Chandra after Kaladesh now Chandra has her real home.
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
1) Mirrodin. Poor old Koth hanging around waiting for Elspeth and the others to return with help against the Phyrexians. I guess he's twiddling his thumbs thinking (where the hell are these guys?)
2) Theros. Elspeth in the Underworld is begging for a rescue story. Plus Dack Fayden has gone there and there is now a hole in the R/G God position there again.
3) Ravnica. Not as explicitly hanging as the others, but there is definitely something going on with the Inter planar tech that Tezzeret got on Kaladesh and Ral Zarek up to something on Ravnica. I'm guess that Ral will get up to something whilst the Living Guildpact is doing his usual super attentive job.
1) Mirrodin. Poor old Koth hanging around waiting for Elspeth and the others to return with help against the Phyrexians. I guess he's twiddling his thumbs thinking (where the hell are these guys?)
The new Phyrexian Arena art shows that Koth is still fighting the good fight, rather than twiddling his thumbs.
1) Mirrodin. Poor old Koth hanging around waiting for Elspeth and the others to return with help against the Phyrexians. I guess he's twiddling his thumbs thinking (where the hell are these guys?)
2) Theros. Elspeth in the Underworld is begging for a rescue story. Plus Dack Fayden has gone there and there is now a hole in the R/G God position there again.
3) Ravnica. Not as explicitly hanging as the others, but there is definitely something going on with the Inter planar tech that Tezzeret got on Kaladesh and Ral Zarek up to something on Ravnica. I'm guess that Ral will get up to something whilst the Living Guildpact is doing his usual super attentive job.
Honestly some of the biggest plots left hanging are character related:
-who is this sassy raven boy
-where the dang is garruk
-what even is ashiok
1) Mirrodin. Poor old Koth hanging around waiting for Elspeth and the others to return with help against the Phyrexians. I guess he's twiddling his thumbs thinking (where the hell are these guys?)
2) Theros. Elspeth in the Underworld is begging for a rescue story. Plus Dack Fayden has gone there and there is now a hole in the R/G God position there again.
3) Ravnica. Not as explicitly hanging as the others, but there is definitely something going on with the Inter planar tech that Tezzeret got on Kaladesh and Ral Zarek up to something on Ravnica. I'm guess that Ral will get up to something whilst the Living Guildpact is doing his usual super attentive job.
Honestly some of the biggest plots left hanging are character related:
-who is this sassy raven boy
If you mean the Raven man thats an ongoing storyline. We just found out he want Liliana and Bolas working together to control the veil.
-where the dang is garruk
Wanting to be left alone.
-what even is ashiok
Ashiok is an Ashiok and thats it. Poking at this ruins the fun and point of the character.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Probably going to get shot down for this given the previous posts, but for me I don't want them to go back to any plane because they have a story to tell.
I mean I hate the story aspect because of the previous relentless focus on Planeswalkers and dire screw ups of story based cards going over the top, and I don't really care about the characters any more than I would about the 5 of spades or a chess piece, and I actively avoid the story, so much so I could not tell you one tenth of the things that previous posters know. If they go back to a plane I want it to be because they have some ideas for mechanics and game play that would suit a plane- so some cool enchantment ideas or Enchantment-based mechanics that could fit with Theros, or some desire to re-work Snow permanents that makes them go to whatever the continent of Dominaria was that produced Ice age/Cold Snap. Not "let us resolve Koth's story". If they can tell a story for those that care, then great, but going back to a plane to complete a story sounds awfully close to some of the story-tail-wagging-the-game-dog which has been responsible in part for some pretty poor decisions over the past few years.
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People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
Probably going to get shot down for this given the previous posts, but for me I don't want them to go back to any plane because they have a story to tell.
I mean I hate the story aspect because of the previous relentless focus on Planeswalkers and dire screw ups of story based cards going over the top, and I don't really care about the characters any more than I would about the 5 of spades or a chess piece, and I actively avoid the story, so much so I could not tell you one tenth of the things that previous posters know. If they go back to a plane I want it to be because they have some ideas for mechanics and game play that would suit a plane- so some cool enchantment ideas or Enchantment-based mechanics that could fit with Theros, or some desire to re-work Snow permanents that makes them go to whatever the continent of Dominaria was that produced Ice age/Cold Snap. Not "let us resolve Koth's story". If they can tell a story for those that care, then great, but going back to a plane to complete a story sounds awfully close to some of the story-tail-wagging-the-game-dog which has been responsible in part for some pretty poor decisions over the past few years.
I entirely agree with you. 99% of Magic should be the game... that's what it is after all. I know some people really get into the story, and that's great for them. I'd just prefer the focus to be on the game and mechanics. I've been thinking about the game a lot lately, and the last number of sets seem to be getting really dry to me--not flavor-wise, but mechanically. There really hasn't been much to upset and stretch and bend and altar the rules much in quite some time. Seeing some of the craziness in Unstable has helped me to see this a bit more. Sure, it's cool to visit a dinosaur world, or an egyptian type world, but if there's not much more than that and a few minor mechanics that don't really do much to evolve the game, then it gets a little boring, or stagnant. I really hope that Wizards recognizes this and that by returning to Dominaria, they will also return to a time where they weren't so conservative on upsetting the balance of the game. The occasional imbalance is exactly what makes Magic exciting to me. Unstable really hit it out of the ball park for me, because it does so much to challenge the rules. Whenever I teach someone to play, the first thing I tell them is that Magic is a game with very detailed and concise rules--but they are rules that are absolutely meant to be broken by cards and mechanics. That's what it's all about to me, and I really think it's time to quit worrying so much about balance and about upsetting one format over another. Just make the game engaging again, instead of 90% of the cards in every set being nearly identical to a thousand others that have been done before with different names. Yeah, there's got to be some of that of course, and that's fine. But you could take about 1/10 of the awesomeness in Unstable and put it in a single new set and it would be far more interesting than the mechanics of any recent set.
Like you said, if they can tell a story around that, then great... I don't want that to be taken away from anyone who really likes that aspect. But if they can't design a set to be a game entirely apart from a story, or can't tell a good story apart from a well designed set, then they are sorely lacking in imagination.
Probably going to get shot down for this given the previous posts, but for me I don't want them to go back to any plane because they have a story to tell.
I mean I hate the story aspect because of the previous relentless focus on Planeswalkers and dire screw ups of story based cards going over the top, and I don't really care about the characters any more than I would about the 5 of spades or a chess piece, and I actively avoid the story, so much so I could not tell you one tenth of the things that previous posters know. If they go back to a plane I want it to be because they have some ideas for mechanics and game play that would suit a plane- so some cool enchantment ideas or Enchantment-based mechanics that could fit with Theros, or some desire to re-work Snow permanents that makes them go to whatever the continent of Dominaria was that produced Ice age/Cold Snap. Not "let us resolve Koth's story". If they can tell a story for those that care, then great, but going back to a plane to complete a story sounds awfully close to some of the story-tail-wagging-the-game-dog which has been responsible in part for some pretty poor decisions over the past few years.
I'd be surprised if you don't get less-than-pleasant responses from at least one Vorthos here.
I can see where you're coming from. I don't necessarily agree with everything though, as I do have an interest in the story.
Probably going to get shot down for this given the previous posts, but for me I don't want them to go back to any plane because they have a story to tell.
I mean I hate the story aspect because of the previous relentless focus on Planeswalkers and dire screw ups of story based cards going over the top, and I don't really care about the characters any more than I would about the 5 of spades or a chess piece, and I actively avoid the story, so much so I could not tell you one tenth of the things that previous posters know. If they go back to a plane I want it to be because they have some ideas for mechanics and game play that would suit a plane- so some cool enchantment ideas or Enchantment-based mechanics that could fit with Theros, or some desire to re-work Snow permanents that makes them go to whatever the continent of Dominaria was that produced Ice age/Cold Snap. Not "let us resolve Koth's story". If they can tell a story for those that care, then great, but going back to a plane to complete a story sounds awfully close to some of the story-tail-wagging-the-game-dog which has been responsible in part for some pretty poor decisions over the past few years.
olk
Want to know something fascinating? Even without novels, comics, trailers, story piece articles, etc, you are still learning the story of a given plane. Through its artwork, the names of cards, the flavor text and/or even the mechanics help tell a story.
Probably going to get shot down for this given the previous posts, but for me I don't want them to go back to any plane because they have a story to tell.
I mean I hate the story aspect because of the previous relentless focus on Planeswalkers and dire screw ups of story based cards going over the top, and I don't really care about the characters any more than I would about the 5 of spades or a chess piece, and I actively avoid the story, so much so I could not tell you one tenth of the things that previous posters know. If they go back to a plane I want it to be because they have some ideas for mechanics and game play that would suit a plane- so some cool enchantment ideas or Enchantment-based mechanics that could fit with Theros, or some desire to re-work Snow permanents that makes them go to whatever the continent of Dominaria was that produced Ice age/Cold Snap. Not "let us resolve Koth's story". If they can tell a story for those that care, then great, but going back to a plane to complete a story sounds awfully close to some of the story-tail-wagging-the-game-dog which has been responsible in part for some pretty poor decisions over the past few years.
olk
Want to know something fascinating? Even without novels, comics, trailers, story piece articles, etc, you are still learning the story of a given plane. Through its artwork, the names of cards, the flavor text and/or even the mechanics help tell a story.
See, I agree with what drmarkb said, but your point is valid as well. For me, there is enough story told just through the cards in a set. You don't get the entire detailed story of course, but you do get a kind of story--and in the game, with these scattered bits of lore and flavor, you kind of get to let the games tell their own story. For me, this is the what's exciting about the game--little bits of story scattered about such a wonderful game. I don't really need the stories and comics and articles and such to get that enjoyment out of it. I just care most about the game and mechanics--but it also wouldn't be the same without the flavor text on cards or even the names of cards that point to key points in a story--and of course definitely not without the artwork. I like the way it is--those who don't want to read a story don't have to--they can just play the game. Those who do want more lore can read the stories. So I think drmarkb's point was just that for him (and me as well) Magic is at its core a game, and it should not have to fit into the mold of a story--and it certainly shouldn't suffer mechanically to do so.
I can remember snatches of story in Fallen Empires, and I enjoyed it. It was enough for me to get the thrust from the cards, in general terms. What I don't remember are characters. That is where it falls down for me now. Jace's rise/defeat/lunchbox or whatever started to warp the game.
Of course I do dislike world of hats type story telling anyway, and mtg has a tendancy towards that.
I think Maro feels creative do a fantastic job. I think they really get in the way.
Fall 2018: Regatha
Winter 2019: [Name of new plane]
Spring 2019: Return to Theros
(Summer 2019: Core 2020)
Fall 2019: Return to Theros part 2
Winter 2020: Ravnica 3
Spring 2020: Ravnica 3 part 2
I still insist it's unlikely they will split a world across a rotation divide - they are more likely to structure it such that the entire world rotates out at the same time.
More likely will be;
Rav or Theros 1
" 2
Regatha or Vryn
(Core Set)
(Something new)
The other of rav or Theros 1
" 2
(Core Set)
i don't think ravnica 3 is going to be two sets.
It pretty much has to be. Do you really think they can squeeze design space for all 10 guilds into one set? Anything less and they are drastically taking away the core thing that players expect from a Ravnica set.
If I had to guess, I'd say that it will go Dominaria, Core Set, Regatha, Ravnica 3 Part 1, Ravnica 3 Part 2, Core Set, new plane with Nissa, Return to Theros Part 1, Return to Theros Part 2. This would put the solo arcs for the Origins 5 in the order of their defeats (with an intermission for Ravnica 3), put Regatha soon after Dominaria for the Jaya connection, and give a cushion between Ixalan and Ravnica 3 so that certain walkers can get new cards without pushing Ravnica 3 too far into the future. That said, the order could vary a little bit. Ravnica 3 could easily come before Regatha, or Theros could come before the new plane.
Yes, I like this too. Noteably, your theory doesn't split a world across a rotation divide (as some do) It matches what I came up with (before I read your post) with a little re-ordering.
One possibility I've not seen anyone mention yet is that they will be using the Core Set as an actual story expansion. Have you considered that Regatha could also be Core 2018?
I strongly suspect that the timing of this the intent is to make Dominaria the new Core World - properly replacing Shandalar as the centre of the Magic universe. This would allow them to do things like reprint the Dominaria-tied painlands every year like they used to.
That said - I do like the idea of tying core sets to the story arc. That is one of the things that made Magic: Origins so great, even though it was a core set.
1) Mirrodin. Poor old Koth hanging around waiting for Elspeth and the others to return with help against the Phyrexians. I guess he's twiddling his thumbs thinking (where the hell are these guys?)
Oh god please no. I hated it every time Mirrodin came up. Honestly - with Dominaria being the next set this is the best time for Wizards to re-capture the long-time player's interest. Having another gimmicky and flat out un-fun set will drive them away again. After KLD rotates out - I'm hoping we'll at least have a full year or two before we get that kind of bull***** again. Please, just one year without things like energy, eldrazi, or phyrexia in Standard (of course Dominaria could be heavily phyrexia influenced, especially with Karn in the picture... so all hope may already be lost)
And with that tangential realization... it could very well be that Mirrodin/New Phyrexia is the next logical place to go after Dominaria.
You can build a good game without a strong narrative yes...
...but you build a good franchise without a strong narrative.
We know for certain that Wizards has as it's plan to build a successful franchise and game, and there is no reason why they cannot deliver both.
Period.
I also think that there is totally enough to Regaltha to make a Set of it- we just don't know what Wizards' inclusions to the plane would be in addition to what we already know.
The plane does have more than the volcanic locale of the "Keral Keep" and an "Order of Heliud"-ruled city. There also exists a "Great Western Wood" that is home to a civilization of elves.
Count. Thats 3/5 colours already seeded, far from the stretch of any world-builder to develop into a more interesting and commercially successful setting.
Probably going to get shot down for this given the previous posts, but for me I don't want them to go back to any plane because they have a story to tell.
I mean I hate the story aspect because of the previous relentless focus on Planeswalkers and dire screw ups of story based cards going over the top, and I don't really care about the characters any more than I would about the 5 of spades or a chess piece, and I actively avoid the story, so much so I could not tell you one tenth of the things that previous posters know. If they go back to a plane I want it to be because they have some ideas for mechanics and game play that would suit a plane- so some cool enchantment ideas or Enchantment-based mechanics that could fit with Theros, or some desire to re-work Snow permanents that makes them go to whatever the continent of Dominaria was that produced Ice age/Cold Snap. Not "let us resolve Koth's story". If they can tell a story for those that care, then great, but going back to a plane to complete a story sounds awfully close to some of the story-tail-wagging-the-game-dog which has been responsible in part for some pretty poor decisions over the past few years.
Because the Story Writers and Research and Development teams are the same thing right? Oh wait no that isn't how game design works at all. The focus on Planeswalkers has nothing to do with the Lore and everything about Hasbro/WOTC wanting to have "faces" of the game, Pretty boy Jace and Bad Girl Lili were sucking up screen time in the game since long before Origins and the Gatwatch story paradigm.
Probably going to get shot down for this given the previous posts, but for me I don't want them to go back to any plane because they have a story to tell.
I mean I hate the story aspect because of the previous relentless focus on Planeswalkers and dire screw ups of story based cards going over the top, and I don't really care about the characters any more than I would about the 5 of spades or a chess piece, and I actively avoid the story, so much so I could not tell you one tenth of the things that previous posters know. If they go back to a plane I want it to be because they have some ideas for mechanics and game play that would suit a plane- so some cool enchantment ideas or Enchantment-based mechanics that could fit with Theros, or some desire to re-work Snow permanents that makes them go to whatever the continent of Dominaria was that produced Ice age/Cold Snap. Not "let us resolve Koth's story". If they can tell a story for those that care, then great, but going back to a plane to complete a story sounds awfully close to some of the story-tail-wagging-the-game-dog which has been responsible in part for some pretty poor decisions over the past few years.
Because the Story Writers and Research and Development teams are the same thing right? Oh wait no that isn't how game design works at all. The focus on Planeswalkers has nothing to do with the Lore and everything about Hasbro/WOTC wanting to have "faces" of the game, Pretty boy Jace and Bad Girl Lili were sucking up screen time in the game since long before Origins and the Gatwatch story paradigm.
Your tone is disparaging and the structure in which you present your opinion, toxic.
If there is something you dislike about the focus that the Gatewatch receive, or the characters themselves then express so in a constructive manner. Antagonism towards WoTC staff will not convince them of anything or bring about the changes you seek.
Also, Contrarily to your opinion, I enjoy having the Planeswalker characters and their journeys prominent within the cards and story. This does not mean that I like every Gatewatch character, nor that the Gatewatch team itself has to always be the focus; Maro has already addressed this in his Metamorphosis 2.0 article and Gatewatch-centrism will ebb and flow.
But one must also realize that not every character and Planeswalker is going to be marketed to thier identities and interests.
I have no interest in Jace,or Chandra and only partial feelings of relatedness towards Liliana and Nissa. Gideon however is a guy I get.
Not everyone feels the same way and that's fine. There are other parts of Ixalan I can enjoy other than Jace. Let's not resort to infantile language and attacks at Wizards. There is no reason why a company cannot have both a compelling franchise and game in one basket.
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Wizards. listen. The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
Probably going to get shot down for this given the previous posts, but for me I don't want them to go back to any plane because they have a story to tell.
I mean I hate the story aspect because of the previous relentless focus on Planeswalkers and dire screw ups of story based cards going over the top, and I don't really care about the characters any more than I would about the 5 of spades or a chess piece, and I actively avoid the story, so much so I could not tell you one tenth of the things that previous posters know. If they go back to a plane I want it to be because they have some ideas for mechanics and game play that would suit a plane- so some cool enchantment ideas or Enchantment-based mechanics that could fit with Theros, or some desire to re-work Snow permanents that makes them go to whatever the continent of Dominaria was that produced Ice age/Cold Snap. Not "let us resolve Koth's story". If they can tell a story for those that care, then great, but going back to a plane to complete a story sounds awfully close to some of the story-tail-wagging-the-game-dog which has been responsible in part for some pretty poor decisions over the past few years.
Because the Story Writers and Research and Development teams are the same thing right? Oh wait no that isn't how game design works at all. The focus on Planeswalkers has nothing to do with the Lore and everything about Hasbro/WOTC wanting to have "faces" of the game, Pretty boy Jace and Bad Girl Lili were sucking up screen time in the game since long before Origins and the Gatwatch story paradigm.
But there was still story in the game when those planeswalkers started. I am not complaining about the Gatewatch, not sure why it is relevant. I am complaining when they could not make a RB planeswalker because "it does not fit" with the story, as detailed recently on one of the the mothership articles. I started in Revised, the story was practically non existent back then and over the next few years if you wanted a Mtg story you went and bought it in paperback form. You might have had a bit of story here and there, but by and large, it passed everyone by unless they went looking for it.
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People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
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I think this looks pretty good, only thing I can say is I echo the thought that there might not be enough to Regatha for a full set but I'd be happy to be wrong. If not I could see Chandra maybe showing up on a random new plane as well, or to save space have her and Nissa show up together since they have a ongoing storyline with each other.
This what Maro said about core set storyline;
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/metamorphosis-2-0-2017-06-12
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I think that eventually Nissa will go back to Innistrad and be the one to release Emrakul again, but it's way too soon after the last appearance of Innistrad to have that be Nissa's next appearance. Note that she probably won't release Emrakul until after the Bolas conflict wraps up, and it could easily be the fourth visit to Innistrad rather than the third. The best way to do the third Innistrad would probably be a return to the original gothic horror with little if any eldrazi, with the main villain being something more less world-threatening like Tibalt, Ashiok, or Garruk. Also, Sorin can get broken out of the wall and Arlinn can actually be part of the plot.
I think it really depends on what the new core sets are like. If it's like M10 through M15, where almost everything is from Shandalar unless stated otherwise, then Shandalar will probably be stuck once again as a core set-only location. However, if they go more in the direction of Origins with a wide variety of planes being represented, then a normal set on Shandalar would feel a lot less redundant.
Well, Kaladesh as it was represented in Origins was mostly just humans and thopters, but the real set had dwarves, vedalken, aetherborn, gremlins, elves, servos, etc. As a result, Regatha (and Vryn) probably have a lot more to them than what we saw in Origins, and they could expand on what they've already introduced in many different ways. The bigger issue with Regatha is that it doesn't exactly cross anything off the short list. There's nothing about it that would really draw people in, so they would need to find a clever way to expand on what they've established in such a way that it creates a theme that draws people in.
That's definitely possible, but they fled from Amonkhet separately so it's very unlikely that they would both end up on the same new plane. So a set/block that has both of them would probably need to be a previously established meeting point, meaning Ravnica or Dominaria. Either that or they meet up on one of those planes before traveling somewhere else together, but then that would require explanation for why they went somewhere new rather than either waiting for the rest of the team or going to search for them.
I do think it could work for them both to meet on Ravnica and star in that block, especially if it takes place concurrently with Ixalan so Jace (and other planeswalkers on Ixalan) couldn't be there to steal the show. It would explain why the rendezvous point was stated to be Dominaria in the art book but never explicitly named in the actual story:
Aether Revolt Story, Episode 9: Renewal
There is a rendezvous point, but it's never actually named in the actual story. They write the art books before the actual articles (and there's been issues with consistency before), so maybe they were planning to have it be Dominaria at that point and they put it in the art book. But then they might changed their minds about where they wanted to go with story and changed it. That might explain why Chandra and/or Nissa went to Ravnica rather than Dominaria, if that's what ends up happening.
Good to know. Those are the types of stories I've been wishing they would do between main sets instead of giving us nothing for weeks. I don't think we've had one since Pride of the Kraul. If core sets give us more of those types of stories, I'll be very pleased. Then again, I might be reading into this to much, and Maro might just be referring to the cards themselves revealing information (like the new art on Phyrexian Arena in Conspiracy) rather than actual story articles. I guess that like everything else with this new type of core set, we'll have to wait until the first one roles around to find out.
dude my dream is to go back to Lorwyn (kith kin was my first deck) AND Kamigawa...so...i guess i'll precede you outside
Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons
ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
return to lorwyn would be a good time to get an actual colfenor legendary creature card. i realize the sapling was killed but i'm sure they could figure out a way. now that i think about it though, i'm surprised they haven't already printed one in a commander product. regardless, the lorywn block story line is one of my favorites, and there is more character to that plane than in most other planes combined.
- Regatha
You said it best, whats the draw or hook for this world? Vryn at least has conflict already baked in with the war for the mage rings and Jace finding him home and family again. Regatha to all just has the monks and the order of heliud. I haven't read the Purifying Fire and I know it shows the world somewhat but as seen after the soft reboot in origins only the beats of that novel are still canon, which means its up in the air of what on Regatha is still canon.
-Nissa/Chandra
I know we need some reason they find each other, I'm it just after Kaladesh Chandra character arc doesn't have much to go. Could be after Nissa/Chandra heals up she goes looking for the other gatewatch members and looks for Chandra/Nissa first. I also think the reason they never mention Dominaria was to keep as a surprise for the set (since at the time we haven't heard about it yet) and the art book editor forgot to take it out.
-Core Set Storylines
Magic Orgins did very well and one reason was have some form of story so I'm reading as the former. We might even see the "villains" origins that they had originally planned. Creative is understaffed so we aren't getting stories in-between but for the corsets they have slots and time already slotted for them so unless something causes them to lose more people I won't see why they won't give us a give core set stories.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
So Chandra possibly meeting Jaya doesn't count?
That doesn't mean Regatha has nothing of value to offer as far as a dedicated set is concerned, especially since we still know very little about the plane compared to many of the other Origins planes.
Also "Very" is supposed to be "Vryn" (sorry, I had to get that off my chest).
True I forgot about Jaya but hard to say what role is going to play.
I'm personally thinking she been mother Luti all along and Chandra won't find out until after her "recover" set(s) and the gate watch reunites.
Damn auto-correct.
I know thats why above I said I'm hope I'm wrong but so Regatha. I honestly like creative new approach to developing their existing characters and planes and want Regatha and some of the other somewhat one off world to get more lore. Your right that they could retro-fit into another theme since so little is know.
I'm just saying their isn't a strong flavor or mechanical hook I can see, it has even lost its flavor tie as adopted home plane of Chandra after Kaladesh now Chandra has her real home.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
1) Mirrodin. Poor old Koth hanging around waiting for Elspeth and the others to return with help against the Phyrexians. I guess he's twiddling his thumbs thinking (where the hell are these guys?)
2) Theros. Elspeth in the Underworld is begging for a rescue story. Plus Dack Fayden has gone there and there is now a hole in the R/G God position there again.
3) Ravnica. Not as explicitly hanging as the others, but there is definitely something going on with the Inter planar tech that Tezzeret got on Kaladesh and Ral Zarek up to something on Ravnica. I'm guess that Ral will get up to something whilst the Living Guildpact is doing his usual super attentive job.
The new Phyrexian Arena art shows that Koth is still fighting the good fight, rather than twiddling his thumbs.
I'd like to see more with Phyrexians and Bolas
Honestly some of the biggest plots left hanging are character related:
-who is this sassy raven boy
-where the dang is garruk
-what even is ashiok
If you mean the Raven man thats an ongoing storyline. We just found out he want Liliana and Bolas working together to control the veil.
Wanting to be left alone.
Ashiok is an Ashiok and thats it. Poking at this ruins the fun and point of the character.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I mean I hate the story aspect because of the previous relentless focus on Planeswalkers and dire screw ups of story based cards going over the top, and I don't really care about the characters any more than I would about the 5 of spades or a chess piece, and I actively avoid the story, so much so I could not tell you one tenth of the things that previous posters know. If they go back to a plane I want it to be because they have some ideas for mechanics and game play that would suit a plane- so some cool enchantment ideas or Enchantment-based mechanics that could fit with Theros, or some desire to re-work Snow permanents that makes them go to whatever the continent of Dominaria was that produced Ice age/Cold Snap. Not "let us resolve Koth's story". If they can tell a story for those that care, then great, but going back to a plane to complete a story sounds awfully close to some of the story-tail-wagging-the-game-dog which has been responsible in part for some pretty poor decisions over the past few years.
I entirely agree with you. 99% of Magic should be the game... that's what it is after all. I know some people really get into the story, and that's great for them. I'd just prefer the focus to be on the game and mechanics. I've been thinking about the game a lot lately, and the last number of sets seem to be getting really dry to me--not flavor-wise, but mechanically. There really hasn't been much to upset and stretch and bend and altar the rules much in quite some time. Seeing some of the craziness in Unstable has helped me to see this a bit more. Sure, it's cool to visit a dinosaur world, or an egyptian type world, but if there's not much more than that and a few minor mechanics that don't really do much to evolve the game, then it gets a little boring, or stagnant. I really hope that Wizards recognizes this and that by returning to Dominaria, they will also return to a time where they weren't so conservative on upsetting the balance of the game. The occasional imbalance is exactly what makes Magic exciting to me. Unstable really hit it out of the ball park for me, because it does so much to challenge the rules. Whenever I teach someone to play, the first thing I tell them is that Magic is a game with very detailed and concise rules--but they are rules that are absolutely meant to be broken by cards and mechanics. That's what it's all about to me, and I really think it's time to quit worrying so much about balance and about upsetting one format over another. Just make the game engaging again, instead of 90% of the cards in every set being nearly identical to a thousand others that have been done before with different names. Yeah, there's got to be some of that of course, and that's fine. But you could take about 1/10 of the awesomeness in Unstable and put it in a single new set and it would be far more interesting than the mechanics of any recent set.
Like you said, if they can tell a story around that, then great... I don't want that to be taken away from anyone who really likes that aspect. But if they can't design a set to be a game entirely apart from a story, or can't tell a good story apart from a well designed set, then they are sorely lacking in imagination.
I'd be surprised if you don't get less-than-pleasant responses from at least one Vorthos here.
I can see where you're coming from. I don't necessarily agree with everything though, as I do have an interest in the story.
See, I agree with what drmarkb said, but your point is valid as well. For me, there is enough story told just through the cards in a set. You don't get the entire detailed story of course, but you do get a kind of story--and in the game, with these scattered bits of lore and flavor, you kind of get to let the games tell their own story. For me, this is the what's exciting about the game--little bits of story scattered about such a wonderful game. I don't really need the stories and comics and articles and such to get that enjoyment out of it. I just care most about the game and mechanics--but it also wouldn't be the same without the flavor text on cards or even the names of cards that point to key points in a story--and of course definitely not without the artwork. I like the way it is--those who don't want to read a story don't have to--they can just play the game. Those who do want more lore can read the stories. So I think drmarkb's point was just that for him (and me as well) Magic is at its core a game, and it should not have to fit into the mold of a story--and it certainly shouldn't suffer mechanically to do so.
Of course I do dislike world of hats type story telling anyway, and mtg has a tendancy towards that.
I think Maro feels creative do a fantastic job. I think they really get in the way.
I still insist it's unlikely they will split a world across a rotation divide - they are more likely to structure it such that the entire world rotates out at the same time.
More likely will be;
Rav or Theros 1
" 2
Regatha or Vryn
(Core Set)
(Something new)
The other of rav or Theros 1
" 2
(Core Set)
It pretty much has to be. Do you really think they can squeeze design space for all 10 guilds into one set? Anything less and they are drastically taking away the core thing that players expect from a Ravnica set.
Yes, I like this too. Noteably, your theory doesn't split a world across a rotation divide (as some do) It matches what I came up with (before I read your post) with a little re-ordering.
I strongly suspect that the timing of this the intent is to make Dominaria the new Core World - properly replacing Shandalar as the centre of the Magic universe. This would allow them to do things like reprint the Dominaria-tied painlands every year like they used to.
That said - I do like the idea of tying core sets to the story arc. That is one of the things that made Magic: Origins so great, even though it was a core set.
Oh god please no. I hated it every time Mirrodin came up. Honestly - with Dominaria being the next set this is the best time for Wizards to re-capture the long-time player's interest. Having another gimmicky and flat out un-fun set will drive them away again. After KLD rotates out - I'm hoping we'll at least have a full year or two before we get that kind of bull***** again. Please, just one year without things like energy, eldrazi, or phyrexia in Standard (of course Dominaria could be heavily phyrexia influenced, especially with Karn in the picture... so all hope may already be lost)
And with that tangential realization... it could very well be that Mirrodin/New Phyrexia is the next logical place to go after Dominaria.
I hope to see anything with Phyrexians. They were my favourite as a kid.
...but you build a good franchise without a strong narrative.
We know for certain that Wizards has as it's plan to build a successful franchise and game, and there is no reason why they cannot deliver both.
Period.
I also think that there is totally enough to Regaltha to make a Set of it- we just don't know what Wizards' inclusions to the plane would be in addition to what we already know.
The plane does have more than the volcanic locale of the "Keral Keep" and an "Order of Heliud"-ruled city. There also exists a "Great Western Wood" that is home to a civilization of elves.
Count. Thats 3/5 colours already seeded, far from the stretch of any world-builder to develop into a more interesting and commercially successful setting.
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
Because the Story Writers and Research and Development teams are the same thing right? Oh wait no that isn't how game design works at all. The focus on Planeswalkers has nothing to do with the Lore and everything about Hasbro/WOTC wanting to have "faces" of the game, Pretty boy Jace and Bad Girl Lili were sucking up screen time in the game since long before Origins and the Gatwatch story paradigm.
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
Your tone is disparaging and the structure in which you present your opinion, toxic.
If there is something you dislike about the focus that the Gatewatch receive, or the characters themselves then express so in a constructive manner. Antagonism towards WoTC staff will not convince them of anything or bring about the changes you seek.
Also, Contrarily to your opinion, I enjoy having the Planeswalker characters and their journeys prominent within the cards and story. This does not mean that I like every Gatewatch character, nor that the Gatewatch team itself has to always be the focus; Maro has already addressed this in his Metamorphosis 2.0 article and Gatewatch-centrism will ebb and flow.
But one must also realize that not every character and Planeswalker is going to be marketed to thier identities and interests.
I have no interest in Jace,or Chandra and only partial feelings of relatedness towards Liliana and Nissa. Gideon however is a guy I get.
Not everyone feels the same way and that's fine. There are other parts of Ixalan I can enjoy other than Jace. Let's not resort to infantile language and attacks at Wizards. There is no reason why a company cannot have both a compelling franchise and game in one basket.
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
But there was still story in the game when those planeswalkers started. I am not complaining about the Gatewatch, not sure why it is relevant. I am complaining when they could not make a RB planeswalker because "it does not fit" with the story, as detailed recently on one of the the mothership articles. I started in Revised, the story was practically non existent back then and over the next few years if you wanted a Mtg story you went and bought it in paperback form. You might have had a bit of story here and there, but by and large, it passed everyone by unless they went looking for it.